Misconception about Vitiate's power gained from Force "drain"

Ok, so in this threat, I want to talk about a huge misunderstanding regarding Vitiate's power he gains from Force draining.

Consider the following facts:

1. Vitiate needs to fuel his own power with countless deaths in order to use his enormous Force drain.

"Eight thousand Sith Lords gathered on Medriaas and agreed to partake in a ritual that would bind the Sith together as an ultimate dark side weapon.

The ritual lasted ten days. Lord Vitiate orchestrated the sorcery and the planet Medriaas was consumed by the largest dark side nexus the galaxy would ever see. When the ritual ended, Lord Vitiate emerged as the only survivor. The pain, energy, and suffering of every living entity on the planet fueled his power and would prolong his life for centuries."
-The Old Republic Encyclopedia

2. Vitiate's stolen Force reserves are actually limited. And he uses them to keep in check his immorality.

"Lord Scourge reveals the Emperor's true goal for the war: to complete a Sith ritual that will grant him unlimited power and immortality by eradicating all life in the galaxy."

-The Old Republic Encyclopedia

"His strategy would lay the groundwork for the Republic's destruction, but would also prime the galaxy for the Emperor's ascension to immortality."
-The Old Republic Encyclopedia

"While generations of Imperial citizens died to fuel his war machine, the Emperor's obsession with immortality continued to burn inside him."
-The Old Republic Encyclopedia

Here is more information:

"When the Emperor broke my will, he looked into my mind, and I was able to see the reflection of his own evil. Invading the Republic is only the first step of his plan. He has become obsessed with power and immortality. The dark side is like a cancer inside him; it grows faster than he can feed it. He has consumed an entire world, but he still hungers. And with his hunger comes an all-consuming fear. He has lived a thousand years; he knows he could live many thousands more. He is terrified of death."

-Revan, The Old Republic: Revan

"His hunger for immortality must constantly be fed."

-Lord Dramath, The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne

What is even worse is the fact that when Vitiate shares his longevity with his Hands' servants, he needs to drain their Force energies to maintain his own immorality.

"Servants of the Hand share their Master's longevity, living untouched by age for centuries under his command. In return, the Emperor draws on his servants' strength in the Force and body to feed his ever-increasing power, leaving the servants withered and frail."

-(Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

Remember when I said that Vitiate feeds on deaths to trigger his massive Force drain?

It is the case for Ziost.

Vitiate mind-controls weak beings and makes them kill each other so he could feed on the deaths they cause.

"Unleashed from his sanctuary on Yavin 4, the former Sith Emperor has now struck the Imperial world of Ziost. Using his immense power in the dark side of the Force, he has dominated the minds of the planet’s Imperial troops--as well as an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi--and has set them against the populace, engaging in a bloody slaughter."

-(Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor)

It is important to note what Force drain is and does.

Force drain is defined as a Force power where a Force user feeds on another's life-force/Force energies. Usually, darksiders feed on others if they are severely wounded to heal their wounds.

What does that mean? That means he or she used the Force reserves he or she has stolen to mend the damage he or she has suffered in a certain moment.

This Force drained power is not unlimited if the Force user utilizes their properties in whatever way he or she sees fit.

Tenebrae did require a ritual to perform what he did in Ziost and also required thousands of death in order to perform it. But I think he was a spirit at that time and not in a physical form/vessel.

Originally posted by lDarth Nihilusl
Tenebrae did require a ritual to perform what he did in Ziost and also required thousands of death in order to perform it. But I think he was a spirit at that time and not in a physical form/vessel.

I know. I was just saying why Vitiate needs to endlessly drain Force energy. He spends those Force reserves on the immorality of his Force ghost.

Originally posted by lDarth Nihilusl
Tenebrae did require a ritual to perform what he did in Ziost and also required thousands of death in order to perform it. But I think he was a spirit at that time and not in a physical form/vessel.

Consider revisiting my blog: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/devastation-of-ziost-updated-and-expanded-in-2020-/105050/

Tenebrae consumed ZIOST with his own dark side abilities, period.

Rituals do not materialize in THAT manner; they require MEDITATION (i.e. ABSOLUTE CONCENTRATION) from the Force-users involved in order to commune with the Force on a far deeper level than possible otherwise. There are a large number of examples in Legends content which make it clear how a ritual is performed.

There is no need for the BioWare to be subtle about what constitute a ritual and what does not. Tenebrae's rituals have been openly and explicitly recognized and stated to be as such across all manner of publications.

What is next? Force Lightning is a ritual?

Do I need to create a blog to tell the difference between rituals and Force powers? I do not have shortage of content in this regard.

I think I should.

MEDITATION is central to any ritualistic activity - just keep this fact in mind.

@Freedon Nadd

The pursuit of Eternal Life is an UNNATURAL endgoal, impractical, and not in sync with the ground realities of the Force.

The Living Force is generated by the energy of all living beings in the galaxy. The Living Force ultimately passes into the Cosmic Force which transcends normal perceptions of time and space (this is the aspect of the Force which is alluded to have a WILL of its own) - a loop.

There will be consequences for partaking in unholy practices.

Tenebrae was able to prolong his life for centuries (unnatural); this was contingent upon a series of external factors which you highlighted. He had to make use of Force Drain and related applications to feed on pain, energy, and suffering that he caused with his own hand from time-to-time for the needful. The unintended byproduct of this practice was THE HUNGER EFFECT of it which had to be satiated from time-to-time and the cycle of unholiness continued....

Why are you all coming out of the woodworks all of a sudden?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why are you all coming out of the woodworks all of a sudden?

touché

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@Freedon Nadd

The pursuit of Eternal Life is an UNNATURAL endgoal, impractical, and not in sync with the ground realities of the Force.

The Living Force is generated by the energy of all living beings in the galaxy. The Living Force ultimately passes into the Cosmic Force which transcends normal perceptions of time and space (this is the aspect of the Force which is alluded to have a WILL of its own) - a loop.

There will be consequences for partaking in unholy practices.

Tenebrae was able to prolong his life for centuries (unnatural); this was contingent upon a series of external factors which you highlighted. He had to make use of Force Drain and related applications to feed on pain, energy, and suffering that he caused with his own hand from time-to-time for the needful. The unintended byproduct of this practice was THE HUNGER EFFECT of it which had to be satiated from time-to-time and the cycle of unholiness continued....

So, you are basically saying what I am saying. 🙄

After Supernatural Encounters came out I became really partial to the idea that young Tenebrae was possessed by the Father of Shadows, who is basically the Morgoth of the SW universe.

That would explain how he was so, so far above even other prodigious Sith in terms of how evil he was, how powerful and how much eldritch lore he seemed to have.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, he did not.

Consider revisiting my blog: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/s_w_legend/blog/devastation-of-ziost-updated-and-expanded-in-2020-/105050/

Tenebrae consumed ZIOST with his own dark side abilities, period.

Rituals do not materialize in THAT manner; they require MEDITATION (i.e. ABSOLUTE CONCENTRATION) from the Force-users involved in order to commune with the Force on a far deeper level than possible otherwise. There are a large number of examples in Legends content which make it clear how a ritual is performed.

There is no need for the BioWare to be subtle about what constitute a ritual and what does not. Tenebrae's rituals have been openly and explicitly recognized and stated to be as such across all manner of publications.

What is next? Force Lightning is a ritual?

Do I need to create a blog to tell the difference between rituals and Force powers? I do not have shortage of content in this regard.

I think I should.

MEDITATION is central to any ritualistic activity - just keep this fact in mind.

@S_W_LeGenD

I believe that the idea that Tenebrae did not use a ritual on Ziost comes from the following:

"Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme."

However, another interpretation of the following quote is also possible.

The text does not contradict Ziost being a ritual. The purpose of the text is to firstly point out that there had been 'Whispered rumors' of Sith rituals and machines causing destruction on a planetary level. This part simply exists to point out that such 'rumors' are just that so far, rumors and the stuff of legends.

It then says that Ziost is a 'clear display' of such power taken to its extreme. The purpose of this whole quote is merely to solidify the fact that causing destruction on a planetary scale is very much a possibility and not just the stuff of rumors/legends if people weren't sure of them. The ritual would also represent the power of the dark side taken to its extreme. The way Ziost ends up in is also very similar to Nathema, which was eradicated by a ritual.

In addition, Tenebrae's Galactic plan consisted of a galaxy-wide ritual that required the death of billions, which seems similar to why Tenebrae dominated those minds to create deaths on Ziost; because he needs those deaths for his mini galaxy-ritual on Ziost.

Now you may be right in that Tenebrae did indeed eradicate Ziost with his own power, but the above is another plausible explanation/interpretation I believe.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
So, you are basically saying what I am saying. 🙄

Originally posted by lDarth Nihilusl
@S_W_LeGenD

I believe that the idea that Tenebrae did not use a ritual on Ziost comes from the following:

"Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme."

However, another interpretation of the following quote is also possible.

The text does not contradict Ziost being a ritual. The purpose of the text is to firstly point out that there had been 'Whispered rumors' of Sith rituals and machines causing destruction on a planetary level. This part simply exists to point out that such 'rumors' are just that so far, rumors and the stuff of legends.

It then says that Ziost is a 'clear display' of such power taken to its extreme. The purpose of this whole quote is merely to solidify the fact that causing destruction on a planetary scale is very much a possibility and not just the stuff of rumors/legends if people weren't sure of them. The ritual would also represent the power of the dark side taken to its extreme. The way Ziost ends up in is also very similar to Nathema, which was eradicated by a ritual.

In addition, Tenebrae's Galactic plan consisted of a galaxy-wide ritual that required the death of billions, which seems similar to why Tenebrae dominated those minds to create deaths on Ziost; because he needs those deaths for his mini galaxy-ritual on Ziost.

Now you may be right in that Tenebrae did indeed eradicate Ziost with his own power, but the above is another plausible explanation/interpretation I believe.

That is not correct, my friend.

Problem # 1 - You changed the statement to match your perspective:

"but Ziost is a 'clear display' of such power taken to its extreme."

Actual statement is as follows:

"but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme."

There is clear distinction between HOW Ziost was stripped of all life and reduced to a barren wasteland and RUMORED APPROACHES to achieve the same in other worlds. That Tenebrae outperformed them all.

---

RITUAL imply BORROWED power to achieve a desired end; source of this power can be an artifact; a superweapon; an arcane machine; or by involving additional number of Force-users in the mix. In each case, MEDITATION is essential to avoid a miscalculation and attempt to CONTROL the outcome because the release of power in the end would be too vast to handle in personal capacity otherwise.

---

Tenebrae's actions on ZIOST suggest otherwise:

Tenebrae (Vitiate) was making use of his immense power in the dark side of the Force to possess all manner of living beings and create CONFLICT across ZIOST in order to feed on resultant deaths by his unwitting pawns (multitasking with Telepathy and Drain Life Essence implied), and as his strength continued to increase due to each death, he began to conjure nigh-omnipotent beings of pure dark side energy across the world to facilitate his agenda (Sith Sorcery implied - another addition in the ongoing multitasking effort of dark side abilities to the benefit of the wielder). Tenebrae adopted this approach to grow in power at a fast pace on Ziost - this was the point all along.

And when protagonists began to counter his Telepathic shroud via electrostatic weapons in order to make evacuations possible, Tenebrae decided to make his final move.

Faced with the prospects of evacuations from ZIOST, Tenebrae (Vitiate) channeled much of his raw power into a single attack and unleashed a wave of dark side energy of apocalyptic proportions on the planet (Force Drain implied); this expression of raw power materialized in the form of a Death Field and devastated habitats across the planet in its wake by disintegrating/consuming life-forms, ravaging flora, vaporizing oceans, corrupting the planet's atmosphere, and creating seismic activity (leading to much material damage) in the process.

THE ABOVE is the actual story and sequence of events in the game.

Tenebrae was able to feed on the resultant extinction event and draw that energy into himself, revitalizing himself as well as emerging stronger than ever before in the aftermath - this is confirmed in later expansion sets. Further confirmation that his final move was an application of Force Drain.

Why try to introduce things in the matter which were never officially established?

Come on, now.

There is a reason why BioWare did not declare developments on ZIOST as a ritual in any codex entry released thus far.

Use of word but imply following:

"used to introduce a phrase or clause contrasting with what has already been mentioned." - GOOGLE

"used to introduce an added statement, usually something that is different from what you have said before." - Cambridge English Dictionary (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/but)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is not correct, my friend.

[B]Problem # 1 - You changed the statement to match your perspective:

"but Ziost is a 'clear display' of such power taken to its extreme."

Actual statement is as follows:

"but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme."

There is clear distinction between HOW Ziost was stripped of all life and reduced to a barren wasteland and RUMORED APPROACHES to achieve the same in other worlds. That Tenebrae outperformed them all.

---

RITUAL imply BORROWED power to achieve a desired end; source of this power can be an artifact; a superweapon; an arcane machine; or by involving additional number of Force-users in the mix. In each case, MEDITATION is essential to avoid a miscalculation and attempt to CONTROL the outcome because the release of power in the end would be too vast to handle in personal capacity otherwise.

---

Tenebrae's actions on ZIOST suggest otherwise:

Tenebrae (Vitiate) was making use of his immense power in the dark side of the Force to possess all manner of living beings and create CONFLICT across ZIOST in order to feed on resultant deaths by his unwitting pawns (multitasking with Telepathy and Drain Life Essence implied), and as his strength continued to increase due to each death, he began to conjure nigh-omnipotent beings of pure dark side energy across the world to facilitate his agenda (Sith Sorcery implied - another addition in the ongoing multitasking effort of dark side abilities to the benefit of the wielder). Tenebrae adopted this approach to grow in power at a fast pace on Ziost - this was the point all along.

And when protagonists began to counter his Telepathic shroud via electrostatic weapons in order to make evacuations possible, Tenebrae decided to make his final move.

Faced with the prospects of evacuations from ZIOST, Tenebrae (Vitiate) channeled much of his raw power into a single attack and unleashed a wave of dark side energy of apocalyptic proportions on the planet (Force Drain implied); this expression of raw power materialized in the form of a Death Field and devastated habitats across the planet in its wake by disintegrating/consuming life-forms, ravaging flora, vaporizing oceans, corrupting the planet's atmosphere, and creating seismic activity (leading to much material damage) in the process.

THE ABOVE is the actual story and sequence of events in the game.

Tenebrae was able to feed on the resultant extinction event and draw that energy into himself, revitalizing himself as well as emerging stronger than ever before in the aftermath - this is confirmed in later expansion sets. Further confirmation that his final move was an application of Force Drain.

Why try to introduce things in the matter which were never officially established?

Come on, now.

There is a reason why BioWare did not declare developments on ZIOST as a ritual in any codex entry released thus far. [/B]

@S_W_LeGenD

I apologize I was not trying to undermine or low ball Tenebrae's showings on Ziost. I was simply trying to show that another interpretation of the quote is plausible. Nonetheless, I took a look at part of the Vitiate blog you sent me earlier and relooked at the Ziost blog. Upon further consideration, I do believe that you are correct and that Tenebrae did most likely consume Ziost through his power. This became more evident because Tenebrae was dominating the minds and wills of thousands,which would take concentration on Tenebrae's part as evident when he tried to dominate Revan Reborn in the novel, on Ziost and so a huge portion/most of his concentration would have had to be devoted there and therefore not a ritual. 🙂

P.S: I will finish that blog soon hopefully 😆

Originally posted by lDarth Nihilusl
@S_W_LeGenD

I apologize I was not trying to undermine or low ball Tenebrae's showings on Ziost. I was simply trying to show that another interpretation of the quote is plausible. Nonetheless, I took a look at part of the Vitiate blog you sent me earlier and relooked at the Ziost blog. Upon further consideration, I do believe that you are correct and that Tenebrae did most likely consume Ziost through his power. This became more evident because Tenebrae was dominating the minds and wills of thousands,which would take concentration on Tenebrae's part as evident when he tried to dominate Revan Reborn in the novel, on Ziost and so a huge portion/most of his concentration would have had to be devoted there and therefore not a ritual. 🙂

P.S: I will finish that blog soon hopefully 😆

Yes, Jedi Mind Trick require substantial focus on the subject. This is assuming just one subject. There are species who are virtually immune to Telepathy.

Force-sensitive living beings are much more difficult to influence, and an effort to possess one can backfire:

The deep subconscious of a Force-sensitive person is shielded by a protective barrier which prevents another Force wielder from penetrating his or her inner mind. This shield pushes violently back at an intruder, sending him or her stumbling back. This “shield” is an involuntary defense mechanism maintained by every Force-sensitive person. It is one reliable way to determine which people might have the potential to become a Jedi.

The magnitude of the backlash generated by the shield depends on the character’s strength in the Force. A person who is merely Force sensitive will shove the intruder back several feet. Someone with actual Force skills will produce a more intense reaction. Those with little training will send the intruder reeling back across the room. Someone who is well-trained, or who has a great deal of raw talent in the Force, might actually send the intruder flying across the room.

Taken from Star Wars D6 Force Powers

Tenebrae gave Telepathic abilities a new meaning on the other hand. He managed to 'possess' countless soldiers and possibly thousands of Force-users (Jedi and Sith) on the planet. Scores of these Jedi were actually Jedi Masters to begin with, and one of them was among the most powerful of the Order.

Imagine the magnitude of strength, focus and effort needed to pull that off.

By the time protagonists arrive in force, entire population base of Ziost had fallen under the spell of Tenebrae. And Ziost was among the most populated worlds at the time.

WE are talking BILLIONS here.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Is that a bad thing? 😄

No. It simply goes to show that you agree with me. 🙂