White St Louis couple who pointed guns at protesters to face charges

Started by cdtm12 pages
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, they do not. Before a court accepts a guilty plea, the defendant has to affirm to the judge that they are, in fact, guilty. And that they are not pleading guilty for any other reason other than that they are guilty.

Not always:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/pleading-guilty-while-saying-youre-innocent.html

Pleading Guilty While Saying You're Innocent
A defendant who claims to be innocent but doesn’t want to risk going to trial can sometimes take what has become known as an Alford plea, named after the Supreme Court’s decision in North Carolina v. Alford. (400 U.S. 25 (1970).)
By Michael Tarleton

A defendant who claims to be innocent but doesn't want to risk going to trial can sometimes take what has become known as an Alford plea, named after the Supreme Court's decision in North Carolina v. Alford. (400 U.S. 25 (1970).) Although the Supreme Court in Alford held that a plea of guilty by someone who claims to be innocent doesn't violate the Constitution, it also held that states could make their own laws regarding such pleas.

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North Carolina v. Alford

Henry Alford was a North Carolina man accused of murder. He insisted that he was innocent of the charges, but decided to take a plea to second-degree murder rather than face the chance of being convicted at trial and receiving the death penalty. At the hearing where Alford pleaded guilty, several witnesses testified that he left his house with a gun saying he was going to go kill the victim, then returned stating that he had done so. On appeal, one of the appellate courts held that his plea was involuntary because it was coerced by threat of the death penalty. But the Supreme Court stepped in, finding not only that the threat of the death penalty didn't make the plea involuntary, but also that a defendant who claims to be innocent can plead guilty under appropriate circumstances. The plea is valid as long as there is a "factual basis" for it (such as the testimony of the witnesses at Alford's plea hearing) and it is "knowing, voluntary, and intelligent" (essentially meaning that the defendant made a rational decision to plead guilty). It's important to keep in mind that the Supreme Court held that pleas like the one in Alford are allowed under the Constitution?it didn't hold that states are required to accept such pleas.

Alford vs. "No Contest"
Alford pleas, like guilty and nolo contendere or "no contest" pleas, result in conviction. Some states allow classic Alford pleas, where defendants plead guilty while claiming to be innocent. Others require a defendant who claims innocence to plead no contest. Others still don't allow Alford pleas at all: In those states, if you assert innocence, you must plead not guilty.

And lets not forget all the minorities who were railroaded into pleas, either due to bad lawyers or corruption.

In this particular case, the charges have been reduced to misdemeanors. Yes, they pled guilty. To effectively a slap on the wrist.

It should be obvious that not everyone who pleads guilty is doing so because they're admitting they did something wrong.

Sometimes it's just easier than going through the alternatives.

Originally posted by cdtm
Not always:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/pleading-guilty-while-saying-youre-innocent.html

And lets not forget all the minorities who were railroaded into pleas, either due to bad lawyers or corruption.

In this particular case, the charges have been reduced to misdemeanors. Yes, they pled guilty. To effectively a slap on the wrist.

Having your guns taken away is much more than just a slap on the wrist lol.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Having your guns taken away is much more than just a slap on the wrist lol.

But he can buy more guns. 🙂

This case sets a dangerous precedent. Now, anytime leftists want to disarm their political opponents they can just use the exact same wash, rinse, and repeat cycle over and over and over again.

Just bust thru a private neighborhood with blm thugs chanting, screaming, whooping, and hollering which then causes gun owning law abiding citizens to grab their guns and simply warn blm activitists to stay the f*** off their property which the activists will capture on cell phone and will forward to the blm supporting DA who then wrongly charges the people defending their property with criminal charges.

Person or people can't afford attorney's fees so they plead guilty and have their means of self defense taken away so end result is the left has succeeded in disarming yet another law abiding citizen without coming out and actually saying "we are gonna take your guns away".

They can do this over and over again until eventually only the people they agree with are armed. Then no one will be able to oppose their communist tyrrany.

Originally posted by cdtm
But he can buy more guns. 🙂

Oh, ok. I must've missed that part. I thought the plea deal made it illegal for them to get more guns.

Still, it is bs that they have to spend more money on guns because their others were wrongly taken away. Guns aren't exactly cheap, you know.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
This case sets a dangerous precedent. Now, anytime leftists want to disarm their political opponents they can just use the exact same wash, rinse, and repeat cycle over and over and over again.

Just bust thru a private neighborhood with blm thugs chanting, screaming, whooping, and hollering which then causes gun owning law abiding citizens to grab their guns and simply warn blm activitists to stay the f*** off their property which the activists will capture on cell phone and will forward to the blm supporting DA who then wrongly charges the people defending their property with criminal charges.

Person or people can't afford attorney's fees so they plead guilty and have their means of self defense taken away so end result is the left has succeeded in disarming yet another law abiding citizen without coming out and actually saying "we are gonna take your guns away".

They can do this over and over again until eventually only the people they agree with are armed. Then no one will be able to oppose their communist tyrrany.

BLM "Thugs" are somehow different than January 6th tourists to the right. If only I could figure out why... Anyone?

Both were stupid and wrong, but I'd say it's likely the targets and the amount of damage done.

Say what you will about the people that stormed the Capitol, at least they were going into government buildings and not smashing small business owners over the head with bricks then walking over their unconscious bodies to loot their stores.

Originally posted by Trocity
Both were stupid and wrong, but I'd say it's likely the targets and the amount of damage done.

Say what you will about the people that stormed the Capitol, at least they were going into government buildings and not smashing small business owners over the head with bricks then walking over their unconscious bodies to loot their stores.

Essentially they were guilty of tresspassing. If it was any other place but the capital it would blend in with the other protests.

Originally posted by eThneoLgrRnae
Oh, ok. I must've missed that part. I thought the plea deal made it illegal for them to get more guns.

Still, it is bs that they have to spend more money on guns because their others were wrongly taken away. Guns aren't exactly cheap, you know.

Reading up on it, they were surrendered as part of a court warrant.

They should get them back at some point.

Good Post

Originally posted by cdtm
Not always:

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/pleading-guilty-while-saying-youre-innocent.html

And lets not forget all the minorities who were railroaded into pleas, either due to bad lawyers or corruption.

In this particular case, the charges have been reduced to misdemeanors. Yes, they pled guilty. To effectively a slap on the wrist.

Alford pleas are rare, and are not even legally permissible in all states. It certainly was not used in this case, so it is totally irrelevant.

Originally posted by Trocity
Both were stupid and wrong, but I'd say it's likely the targets and the amount of damage done.

Say what you will about the people that stormed the Capitol, at least they were going into government buildings and not smashing small business owners over the head with bricks then walking over their unconscious bodies to loot their stores.

No, they just beat cops, then walked over their unconscious bodies to subvert democracy, execute politicians, and smear their urine and feces all over the seat of our government.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, they just beat cops, then walked over their unconscious bodies to subvert democracy, execute politicians, and smear their urine and feces all over the seat of our government.
👆

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Alford pleas are rare, and are not even legally permissible in all states. It certainly was not used in this case, so it is totally irrelevant.

The charges were still reduced from felonies to misdemeanors. Had they stuck to their guns, I'm certain they would have fought it.

As is, they have the stigma and the fines, and not much else. And the first means little these days (I mean, CT's governor was a convicted felon. Nobody cared.)

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, they just beat cops, then walked over their unconscious bodies to subvert democracy, execute politicians, and smear their urine and feces all over the seat of our government.

FAKE NEWS! IT WAS ANTIFA REEEEE

Originally posted by cdtm
The charges were still reduced from felonies to misdemeanors. Had they stuck to their guns, I'm certain they would have fought it.

As is, they have the stigma and the fines, and not much else. And the first means little these days (I mean, CT's governor was a convicted felon. Nobody cared.)

They still acknowledged their guilt and accepted their punishment, which is the entire point.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
They still acknowledged their guilt and accepted their punishment, which is the entire point.

If he ever gains office, at least he'll have one up on Nixon to admitting he's a crook. 🙂 👆

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, they just beat cops, then walked over their unconscious bodies to subvert democracy, execute politicians, and smear their urine and feces all over the seat of our government.

Oh, okay.

@truejedi They aren't so different after all.

H8ful 8