Originally posted by Kento
That guys just weaker than Roshi. We all know what happens to people who rely on scouters to gauge power levels against beings who can surpress their power levels.
He's in the group going against Kale though.
Seems like a pretty high ranking member, he's there with Toppo at Jiren's introduction.
Originally posted by Genii96
Roshi specifically had a technique very similar to UI, which is why he actually managed to dodge jiren a bit, plus the fact that Killing isn't allowed, so jiren would have had to massively suppress his PL so as not to kill roshi by accident
Killing wasn't a problem for anyone else though. Not Kale, not Kefla, not even Jiren against a massively weaker Goku.
That's just an excuse people bring up to lowball human level Master Roshie avoiding being hit by a being stronger then Kaio Ken SSJ Blue Goku.
Originally posted by cdtmVegeta says that Kale is easy to read. And he's among the Pride Troopers, so he is the amongst the strongest people in his universe. It's also said that they are doing so well against her because they work well as a team.
He's in the group going against Kale though.
Originally posted by cdtmDodging Jiren, ALSO puts him at a level above what he should be. Even with it's a human version of UI, Roshi at his DB level wouldn't be able to do that. Then Jiren still tags him almost right after.
What is Jiren's?
So what we know about Roshi is, that he's above one eyed guy, and below the higher echelons of the tournament. Which IS a huge gap between everything.
It doesn't negate the fact that you don't have to be more than slightly above your opponent to completely decimate them.
Originally posted by Kento
Vegeta says that Kale is easy to read. And he's among the Pride Troopers, so he is the amongst the strongest people in his universe. It's also said that they are doing so well against her because they work well as a team.
Dodging Jiren, ALSO puts him at a level above what he should be. Even with it's a human version of UI, Roshi at his DB level wouldn't be able to do that. Then Jiren still tags him almost right after.So what we know about Roshi is, that he's above one eyed guy, and below the higher echelons of the tournament. Which IS a huge gap between everything.
It doesn't negate the fact that you don't have to be more than slightly above your opponent to completely decimate them.
Roshie dodged Jiren right after Goku was struggling. There is absolutely no indication he "held back" at all. On the contrary, Goku, Beerus, and Whis being highly impressed only reinforces that Jiren was trying to hit him with the same level of speed he was using to tag Goku.
This breaks the notion of power levels being insurmountable.
Originally posted by cdtmWell, besides the fact Jiren was holding back against Goku, so means he was holding back.
Roshie dodged Jiren right after Goku was struggling. There is absolutely no indication he "held back" at all. On the contrary, Goku, Beerus, and Whis being highly impressed only reinforces that Jiren was trying to hit him with the same level of speed he was using to tag Goku.This breaks the notion of power levels being insurmountable.
And Jiren also instantly was able to hit Roshi afte that. It was shocking thing to happen, then Jiren without powering up, negates the fact of what happened. Super has proved that characters can be surprised. Roshi just learned how to dodge well. He's been training with Piccolo.
Originally posted by KentoI don't disagree.
to be fair, MUI could easily be 2x sign. Because you only need to be slightly stronger than your opponent to curbstomp them.It could easily be a Super Buu, Mystic Gohan, Buutenks thing. That's the problems with no set power levels. They don't need to be magnitudes above someone to win. Vegeta slaughtering Freezas men easily proves that. Or how easily Nappa toyed with Piccolo.
Freeza never really stood a chance against ssj Goku either. With how easily Trunks dealt with him and being on par with namek Goku.
DB history tells us that a 2x difference between fighters(sometimes far less than that) is enough to allow for effortless rape to take place. It's just funny because you'll see some people(not here) claiming that the Sign/MUI multiplier is in the tens of thousands.
Originally posted by carver9
So Roshi is as powerful as Jiren, is that what you're saying?
You probably need to go back and read Dragon Ball/Zs/Super again.
If one character has a pl of 1000, and the other has a pl 1100, minus special abilities, the 1100 would outright rape the 1000 fighter.
That’s how the world of dragon ball works.
Better yet, go back and read Piccolo/Goku vs Raditz. Raditz had them dead to rights. Raditz was surprise Piccolo charging his Special Beam Canon could raise his power level so high.