Originally posted by cdtm
Is he really a street though?More of an evil genius. Or anti-hero genius.
So you cany really class him as above street. He can with prep genetically enhance himself temporarily, create devices to mond control etc. Though these are few and far between
Pl according to the tiers lost Carver posted Jack O'Lantern is street.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/jack-o-lantern/4005-42466/
So I choose him. A street that can fly, teleport, generate blasts, create illusions and is super strong with a healing factor
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Originally posted by beatboks
He has no powers as standard, has normal human physicals. He has no special weaponry as standard (he no longer has Cilica his personal AI/ force field)So you cany really class him as above street. He can with prep genetically enhance himself temporarily, create devices to mond control etc. Though these are few and far between
In that case, I choose John Constantine. No real powers as standard, normal human stats (he's actually a shitty physical fighter in some depictions, relying on Chas as the muscle) and has no special weaponry as standard.....
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In that case, I choose John Constantine. No real powers as standard, normal human stats (he's actually a shitty physical fighter in some depictions, relying on Chas as the muscle) and has no special weaponry as standard.....
Actually he does have powers at base.
1. His blood is tainted by demon blood that slows his aging and gives him enhanced healing.
2. He'd descended from a long line of magic users which is why he can do more with magic than others who have just learned it.
I'm not sure of its still the case post flashpoint but pre flashpoint the DCU 4th and 5th ages of magic both had the rule that a mortal form couldnt use magic without either a connection to it (like Constantine, Zatanna, Zatarra, Faust etc), a talisman (like Sargon, Occult, Ibis, Dr Fate), or a familiar (like Klarion). Sonce John isn't immortal and doesnt have a familiar, to use magic he either had to have an innate link to magic within him (a power) or a a talisman (special weapon).
Originally posted by beatboks
Actually he does have powers at base.
1. His blood is tainted by demon blood that slows his aging and gives him enhanced healing.
2. He'd descended from a long line of magic users which is why he can do more with magic than others who have just learned it.I'm not sure of its still the case post flashpoint but pre flashpoint the DCU 4th and 5th ages of magic both had the rule that a mortal form couldnt use magic without either a connection to it (like Constantine, Zatanna, Zatarra, Faust etc), a talisman (like Sargon, Occult, Ibis, Dr Fate), or a familiar (like Klarion). Sonce John isn't immortal and doesnt have a familiar, to use magic he either had to have an innate link to magic within him (a power) or a a talisman (special weapon).
Yeah, so like I said, no real powers. I mean, his HF and ageing isn't much when you stack him up against, say, Wolverine.
And street tier does not mean 'no powers, period'. Red Skull is there. Ravager. Rose Tattoo. Talon. Toad. Taskmaster. Winter Soldier. Cap America. Jack O Lantern (as you pointed out).
Hell, even in the Low Street, we have White Tiger.
My point was that with your criteria, Constantine is as much a 'street' as Vril. One can't really class him as above street tier, using his physicals.
Captain America isn't street level. He consistently soloes high metas, even groups of high metas, such as some bunch of X-Men or U-Foes. These feats are not outliers since he does that all the time. It's not even rare for him to solo heralds (and sometimes above).
Cap is closer to herald than he is to street level.
Again, it depends on what you understand by the street tier.
Plenty of heroes technically above peak humans are still classified as streets.
Originally posted by HumbleServant
Scans?
Wolverine never fought Zeus.
The point Stoic was trying to make is that adamantium claws can slice through damn near anyone/anything in the Marvel Universe.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, so like I said, no real powers. I mean, his HF and ageing isn't much when you stack him up against, say, Wolverine.And street tier does not mean 'no powers, period'. Red Skull is there. Ravager. Rose Tattoo. Talon. Toad. Taskmaster. Winter Soldier. Cap America. Jack O Lantern (as you pointed out).
Hell, even in the Low Street, we have White Tiger.
My point was that with your criteria, Constantine is as much a 'street' as Vril. One can't really class him as above street tier, using his physicals.
He's more likely to trick a bully (like Lobo) into fighting for him. Or trick the one going after him to fight someone else he wants taken down
Originally posted by beatboks
Using his physicals no. But then he can do all that magic, read minds, cast illusions, blasts. I mean Vril cant do any of that. He is just smart and manipulative. Hell he's bested guys smarter than him (like his father and his son) just because he understands psychology better and is better using their drives against them. When he actually fights the majority of the time its using just his brains. On occasion a weapon. He got his ass kicked (and killed) by stealth when he wasnt prepared (because he didnt know about her being on heat and how she breeds) and she isnt all that trained and is physically a street.He's more likely to trick a bully (like Lobo) into fighting for him. Or trick the one going after him to fight someone else he wants taken down
Which again, sounds very much like Con John. Only with magic instead of science.
Hell, he's had his ass kicked by random thugs because Chas wasn't around to save him. And they weren't trained or anything. They were just some drunks iirc. He can't fight for shit.
And your last paragraph is basically Constantine, lol.
Street level is pretty vague
Very broadly, you could throw two tonners like Cap and possibly Logan in street, but Logan's HF ups him considerably. It's not a matter of who you can beat either way. Cap punches and Logan basically uses knives. That's street.
In legitimate street level, I'm taking Cass all day