Hal has been getting the Superman treatment the past few years
He is not a regular GL officer anymore. He isn’t just another GL from earth like Kyle or Guy. It’s been made very clear that he is superior
He is the source of will force. Kyle could not contain Hal’s ring without damaging a planet.
Hal should be in 8/10
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Hal has been getting the Superman treatment the past few yearsHe is not a regular GL officer anymore. He isn’t just another GL from earth like Kyle or Guy. It’s been made very clear that he is superior
He is the source of will force. Kyle could not contain Hal’s ring without damaging a planet.
Hal should be in 8/10
Have you read any of the Surfer's recent showings?
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Hal has been getting the Superman treatment the past few yearsHe is not a regular GL officer anymore. He isn’t just another GL from earth like Kyle or Guy. It’s been made very clear that he is superior
He is the source of will force. Kyle could not contain Hal’s ring without damaging a planet.
Hal should be in 8/10
OTOH, his PC is a lot more limited now ,and he can only blast.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Surfer is completely intangible now, unless one has soul/mystical attacks (Boy Thing, or Ghost Rider). Would be interesting to see how Knull deals with him.OTOH, his PC is a lot more limited now ,and he can only blast.
Did you read the latest Fantastic 4 issue? What did you think of his showing if you did?
Originally posted by Stoic
Did you read the latest Fantastic 4 issue? What did you think of his showing if you did?
I did, and I also read the preceding issues.
You're leaping to a false conclusion - that because she atomised MM and is a fundamental embodiment etc etc, that she can destroy heralds and metas etc with a flick of a finger. As Reed says, he is certain their allies would be able to hold out for a while.
Which is precisely what Surfer did.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I did, and I also read the preceding issues.You're leaping to a false conclusion - that because she atomised MM and is a fundamental embodiment etc etc, that she can destroy heralds and metas etc with a flick of a finger. As Reed says, he is certain their allies would be able to hold out for a while.
Which is precisely what Surfer did.
The correct wording here is that Griever is used to fighting much higher, abstract beings. This in no way states that she cant fight lower beings or affect them at all.
Nothing suggesting she is not operating at full power against them. Just having to get used to fighting smaller, less powerful beings.
So still impressive given the Griever's capabilities and SS fighting and holding her off. Also shits on anything a Lantern, or Superman ever did. 👍
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I did, and I also read the preceding issues.You're leaping to a false conclusion - that because she atomised MM and is a fundamental embodiment etc etc, that she can destroy heralds and metas etc with a flick of a finger. As Reed says, he is certain their allies would be able to hold out for a while.
Which is precisely what Surfer did.
Well how powerful is Griever in your opinion?
Originally posted by Stoic
So then, this is a highend feat for the Surfer, or about par? I ask because Hal had a similar showing against a version of Krona. How would you scale them in terms of feat comparisons? In short, who holds the better feat? More importantly, who do you think would win between these two these days?
It's a feat. By that I mean, I don't see it as the same. Reed clearly lays it out - it's like trying to punch Covid, lol. Doesn't matter that you are almost infinitely stronger/smarter/faster than Covid - you still can't just punch it out of existence.
The Krona example is almost a reverse. There, the Guardians of Oa specifically had several stips on GL rings - no killing, no harming Guardians. On top of that, Krona could manipulate GL energy himself, AND had the Ion entity under his command at the time (IIRC). Hal just overpowered all of that - didn't matter what the stips were.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's [b]a feat. By that I mean, I don't see it as the same. Reed clearly lays it out - it's like trying to punch Covid, lol. Doesn't matter that you are almost infinitely stronger/smarter/faster than Covid - you still can't just punch it out of existence.The Krona example is almost a reverse. There, the Guardians of Oa specifically had several stips on GL rings - no killing, no harming Guardians. On top of that, Krona could manipulate GL energy himself, AND had the Ion entity under his command at the time (IIRC). Hal just overpowered all of that - didn't matter what the stips were. [/B]
I don't want to twist your words, but are you implying that Hal is infinitely faster, smarter, stronger than the Surfer? It was the Covid analogy that made me ask.
In retrospect, his battle with Griever may shed a tiny bit of light on exactly what he was dealing with against Knull in terms of Knull's power levels. Please don't read too much into the Knull comparison, as it would likely go lead to off subject topics. The thought just came out of left field.
Originally posted by Stoic
I don't want to twist your words, but are you implying that Hal is infinitely faster, smarter, stronger than the Surfer? It was the Covid analogy that made me ask.In retrospect, his battle with Griever may shed a tiny bit of light on exactly what he was dealing with against Knull in terms of Knull's power levels. Please don't read too much into the Knull comparison, as it would likely go lead to off subject topics. The thought just came out of left field.
Krona feat and Griever feat isn't comparable, just the scope...
Griever is an abstract.
It’s the embodiment of a concept. So what Surfer did was hold off the embodiment of destruction, What Hal did is nowhere comparable.
Originally posted by Stoic
I don't want to twist your words, but are you implying that Hal is infinitely faster, smarter, stronger than the Surfer? It was the Covid analogy that made me ask.In retrospect, his battle with Griever may shed a tiny bit of light on exactly what he was dealing with against Knull in terms of Knull's power levels. Please don't read too much into the Knull comparison, as it would likely go lead to off subject topics. The thought just came out of left field.
Oh no no no.
I am saying that just as you and I are infinitely stronger than say, Covid, Griever was stronger/faster/more powerful than Surfer.
That doesn't mean that Surfer stalemating her for 16 minutes means that Surfer is on her level - it just meant she finds fighting beings below her difficult (as Reed says).
In short, it's not really comparable to Hal's, simply because the circumstances are different - Surfer did as well as he did only because he was a lower life form than Griever.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh no no no.I am saying that just as you and I are infinitely stronger than say, Covid, Griever was stronger/faster/more powerful than Surfer.
That doesn't mean that Surfer stalemating her for 16 minutes means that Surfer is on her level - it just meant she finds fighting beings below her difficult (as Reed says).
In short, it's not really comparable to Hal's, simply because the circumstances are different - Surfer did as well as he did only because he was a lower life form than Griever.
That's not really relevant to Surfer, Surfer was stated to be apart of the cosmos several times. Also, many lower life forms have tried as stated by Griever and SS held her off longer than anyone credited by Griever herself.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I did, and I also read the preceding issues.You're leaping to a false conclusion - that because she atomised MM and is a fundamental embodiment etc etc, that she can destroy heralds and metas etc with a flick of a finger. As Reed says, he is certain their allies would be able to hold out for a while.
Which is precisely what Surfer did.
That's in the beginning when Griever begins fighting opponents of that calibre.
However, when the Forever Gate storyline begins, Griever is casually backhanding whoever is present, which includes Reed in an anti-matter field that is supposed to be powerful enough to fights off Heralds: