Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
And? The Brothers Three are also from the Overvoid, literally “rent from the Overvoid into flesh.”
yes, but I dont know how this translate to DK who possess dark multiverse doctor manhattan's power
you can't prove brother three is superior to mandrakk or ca, since they are come from shards of overvoid.
Originally posted by MrMind
yes, but I dont know how this translate to DK who possess dark multiverse doctor manhattan's poweryou can't prove brother three is superior to mandrakk or ca, since they are come from shards of overvoid.
Well, it translates to DK because he”s ridiculously stronger than the combined powers of Alpheus/Mobius/Mar-Novu, who Mxy claims are three of the four most powerful beings in DC (the other being Perpetua) and that they”re the only ones who could exist in the 6th dimension prior to the Source Wall being broken.
As in, Mxy is straight up saying that from his POV, the Brothers Three and Perpetua are the most powerful characters in DC History (obviously excluding the Source/Hands and the rest of the Omniversal hierarchy). You brought up Mandrakk being born from the Overvoid and that the Overvoid encompasses the 6th Dimension as evidence of Mandrakk being comparable/superior to the Brothers or that he could exist in the 6th dimension, but that”s not what Mxy says.
I”m still not sure why this is even a debate. Perpetua was literally the one behind Mandrakk and his antics according to Dark Knights: Death Metal Issue #1 , and whereas Mandrakk was bested in an insanely close fight by the story of Superman, DK was only bested in an insanely close fight by the collective story of the entire DC Multiverse, past, present and future.
I personally think Morrison created superior hyper gods compared to Snyder
perpetua was not behind final crisis
all she did was whispering sweet nothing, instigating crisis when she was trapped in the wall
All I'm saying is Mandrakk and TR came directly from Overvoid, they are extensions of the Supreme being of DC.
the difference is, with the three brothers, they are made from shards of Overvoid, but Perpetua made them, not Overvoid himself.
the reason I give TR the win is based on his meta nature, his ability to adapt instantly to any threat, and constant evolving till he's above his opponent. his plot manipulation that can resist any type of self-assembling hyper stories trying to destroy him
he is a archetypal being representing "good" side of every conceptual dichotomy, every story ever told by dc
Originally posted by MrMind
I personally think Morrison created superior hyper gods compared to Snyderperpetua was not behind final crisis
all she did was whispering sweet nothing, instigating crisis when she was trapped in the wall
1. You can think that the way Morrison portrays "hyper gods" is more impressive than the way Snyder portrays them, and I would tend to agree. Hell, if you look at Morrison's portrayal of Darkseid and the New Gods, you would think they're stronger than Snyder's depiction of the Monitors. That's not relevant, though, and the scaling directly favors Snyder's cosmology over Morrison's.
2. Perpetua may not have directly caused the Final Crisis (she didn't directly cause any crisis prior to the latest one), but the idea is that the collection of every major villain and crisis throughout DC History was bringing things closer to the release of the ultimate villain. Furthermore, the fact the comic refers to Anti-Monitor, Mandrakk, Parallax, Barbatos, etc. as "Scions" of Perpetua indicates that she holds a superior position relative to them.
Originally posted by MrMind
All I'm saying is Mandrakk and TR came directly from Overvoid, they are extensions of the Supreme being of DC.
No, they are not. Perhaps this was the intention when Morrison wrote them, but Snyder explicitly retconned pretty much the whole cosmology behind TR, Mandrakk, and the Overvoid. In Morrison's cosmology, The Overvoid/Source/"God" is not even aware of the concept of story, and sent Dax Novu to analyze this concept through the DC Multiverse. In Snyder's cosmology, the Source and its Judges have seen the deaths of "trillions of Multiverses" before DC came along, which is a complete retcon of Morrison's take. In Morrison's cosmology, the edge of the Monitor Sphere is the highest level of existence and in direct contact with the Source, but Snyder retcons this and says the 6th dimension is the highest plane of existence. In Morrison's cosmology, the Overvoid entirely is The Source/The Presence, but in Snyder's take the Source and its Judges exist at the end of/outside of the Overvoid.
Pretty much the Overvoid is no longer a sentient being/The Source, but is just the canvas which the hands use to create Multiverses, with the Source and its judges existing at the end of Void, and they're well acquainted with the concept of story.
Originally posted by MrMind
the difference is, with the three brothers, they are made from shards of Overvoid, but Perpetua made them, not Overvoid himself.
As aforementioned, Snyder pretty much retconned the idea of the Overvoid being sentient/being the Source and creating Dax Novu because it was unaware of the concept of story. Mandrakk/Thought Robot are no longer representatives of the ultimate concepts, and even if they are, they are still weaker than Perpetua by scaling, with Mandrakk being a "scion" of Perpetua.
Originally posted by MrMind
the reason I give TR the win is based on his meta nature, his ability to adapt instantly to any threat, and constant evolving till he's above his opponent. his plot manipulation that can resist any type of self-assembling hyper stories trying to destroy himhe is a archetypal being representing "good" side of every conceptual dichotomy, every story ever told by dc
Mxy is one of the ultimate (perhaps even THE ultimate) meta character in DC, and he can't even perceive the happenings of the 6th dimension, and states that the Brothers Three/Perpetua are the only characters powerful enough to exist in the 6th dimension prior to the Source Wall breaking. The Brothers Three literally "govern everything imaginable and unimaginable" via the Dimensional Superstructure and exist beyond any of the concepts in DC. And the Darkest Knight is infinitely more powerful than any of them. And once again, Darkest Knight was only defeated in a ridiculously close fight by a Wonder Woman who embodied the connective energy and story of ALL of DC history, including Superman. Can't get much more impressive than that in a meta sense.
We can both wax poetic about the meta impressiveness of these characters, but ultimately Snyder retconned a lot of what made Mandrakk/TR conceptually impressive, and Perpetua is consistently hyped up as the ultimate threat in DC history, and the Monitors/Perpetua are hyped by Mxy as the four most powerful beings in DC history.
There's not much reason to believe TR defeats Darkest Knight other than using retconned cosmology and TR's meta-adaptation, which is a no-limits fallacy.
I wanted to put this in an edit, but sorry for the double-post:
Another way I would view it is that while Mandrakk was feasting on Bleed/stories in DC to become more powerful, the Darkest Knight was as powerful as a being who already embodied the entire story of DC, from the Dawn of Creation to Modern times. Darkest Knight is pretty much what Mandrakk's end goal was in terms of power, and then some.