Superman/Doomsday vs Apocalypse/Thanos

Originally posted by KingD19
Speed doesn't work on Apocalypse. He's already adapted to Quicksilver, who is by feats very much faster than Clark. As Flash is faster than Superman, and Quicksilver is waaaaaay faster than Barry.

That quicksilver was at least a magnitude slower.

Also, some here have argued that WW can see rifle bullets (super sonic) in slow motion and Superman statued her.

Also we see Superman and Flash moving in relation to lightning (which is 1/3rd the speed of light).

In summary

1. That quicksilver was slow
2. Superman and Flash are faster than you think

Originally posted by KingD19
He's fast enough to react to the fastest speedster in live action. Superman likes to use his speed, which is much slower than the person Apocalypse reacted to.

Blasts? You mean Jean going Phoenix and using her telekinesis, the invisible energy that just touches you without regards to speed or distance and just started ripping his armor off? Can't really dodge that.

Why did Flash get hit by an energy blast from a Parademon rifle?
Why does CW Flash constantly get hit by things much slower than him?
Why does FOX Quicksilver who is several thousand times faster than the speed of sound fall victim to a sonic attack?

It should never happen but stuff like that happens all the time. Call it PIS if you want. Also, maybe Apocalypse can only react to a Speedster moving at high speeds. Meaning he is still canonically able to react to speeds much higher than Superman, nullifying any speed moves he wants to use against Apocalypse, which is what I originally said.

You are making stuff up. Apocalypse didnt automatically become a speedster after than confrontation. That wasn't the writer's intention nor do we have any evidence of that being true (Apoc acted and moved slowly in all his later appearances). For your point to be valid, Apoc has to at least perform 1 speed feat afterwards, giving evidence to the writer's intention.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are confusing Fox quicksilver with Marvel quicksilver.

That quicksilver was at least a magnitude slower.

Also, some here have argued that WW can see rifle bullets (super sonic) in slow motion and Superman statued her.

Also we see Superman and Flash moving in relation to lightning (which is 1/3rd the speed of light).

In summary

1. That quicksilver was slow
2. Superman and Flash are faster than you think

I most certainly didn't. FOX Quicksilver played by Evan Peters is the one who fought Apocalypse.

Marvel Quicksilver played by Aaron Taylor-Johnson was the one who fought the Avengers, then got killed in Sokovia.

Yes, MCU Quicksilver is relatively slow as he saw bullets in slow motion and couldn't dodge the bullets from the vulcan cannon.

FOX Quicksilver on the other hand has been calced somewhere near lightspeed and has feats that far surpass anyone in DCEU.

You wanna talk about DCEU Flash, he saw a Batarang moving across a room in a few seconds. Quicksilver had an explosion frozen in place for several minutes.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by KingD19
I most certainly didn't. FOX Quicksilver played by Evan Peters is the one who fought Apocalypse.

Marvel Quicksilver played by Aaron Taylor-Johnson was the one who fought the Avengers, then got killed in Sokovia.

Yes, MCU Quicksilver is relatively slow as he saw bullets in slow motion and couldn't dodge the bullets from the vulcan cannon.

FOX Quicksilver on the other hand has been calced somewhere near lightspeed and has feats that far surpass anyone in DCEU.

You wanna talk about DCEU Flash, he saw a Batarang moving across a room in a few seconds. Quicksilver had an explosion frozen in place for several minutes.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

My mistake. You are right.

Superman only needs one hit to ko or kill Apoc. Aooc will not adapt in time. Even if he did then trying to trap Superman in the ground is meaningless.

Since the OP didn't specify what he means as weapons, that should mean that Thanos' spaceships count. after all. they belong to him and have weapons installed. plus they've been used in combat.

After all, you know if this was a Batman thread where he was stated to have his weapons. certain people would be arguing for the Bat-mobile and plane etc etc.

Thanos isn't needed here Apocalypse waves his hand and kills them both with telekinesis

Originally posted by KingD19
I most certainly didn't. FOX Quicksilver played by Evan Peters is the one who fought Apocalypse.

Marvel Quicksilver played by Aaron Taylor-Johnson was the one who fought the Avengers, then got killed in Sokovia.

Yes, MCU Quicksilver is relatively slow as he saw bullets in slow motion and couldn't dodge the bullets from the vulcan cannon.

FOX Quicksilver on the other hand has been calced somewhere near lightspeed and has feats that far surpass anyone in DCEU.

You wanna talk about DCEU Flash, he saw a Batarang moving across a room in a few seconds. Quicksilver had an explosion frozen in place for several minutes.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Where was he shown to be near lightspeed? Not doubting it. But I'd like to know.

Originally posted by KingD19
He's fast enough to react to the fastest speedster in live action. Superman likes to use his speed, which is much slower than the person Apocalypse reacted to.

Blasts? You mean Jean going Phoenix and using her telekinesis, the invisible energy that just touches you without regards to speed or distance and just started ripping his armor off? Can't really dodge that.

Invisible? What are you talking about man? Jean blasted Apocalypse , He would have simply dodged it , since you're clàiming he is a Speedster now.

You're gonna have to prove Superman is much slower than Quicksilver.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Nope Wrong. Not frozen in place.

Where was he shown to be near lightspeed? Not doubting it. But I'd like to know.

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Here, Quicksilver is proven that he can use super speed while already going at superspeed, shown by how he can just ramp it up to 11 and move even faster while everything is already slowed down. He's calced at Mach 112,524 based on the mansion explosion scene. That's just over 1/10 lightspeed.

YouTube video
Same guy made a list of all the speedsters and JL Flash is laughably slow at Mach 1.2, during the Batarang scene. and ranks #18 out of all of the onscreen speedsters he calculates. Quicksilver ranks #2, and using different maths and taking out several variables he calcs him at the slowest possible speed being Mach, 8,202. He even explains his speed would be much higher if he did a few more calculations like taking into account the location he dropped everyone off at on the lawn.

YouTube video
I'll give Flash a fair shake though. The same guy made another video a year later solely for JL Flash, and calced him at Mach 5.6 during the falling sword scene. He also pointed out how in the rebirth scene, Barry is barely faster than a raging Superman, who he calced at Mach 27.5 when he flew back to Earth from outer space. He also explains how you can't really math up an answer from that fight scene, so since Superman's around Mach 27.5, and Barry was actively dodging hits from him, then Barry is slightly above that and probably around Mach 27.6-Mach 28.

So what that means, is that at his absolute slowest, Quicksilver is still 8174.5 mach's faster than Flash at his fastest. And if we take the original calculations into account, Quicksilver is 112,496.5 mach's faster than Flash at his fastest.

Apocalypse reacting to Quicksilver means that if Superman tries to blitz him, he'll look like a baby taking their first steps in comparison to Pietro. Even if he has to adapt to react to the speed, it'll be much easier than it was against Quicksilver.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
Invisible? What are you talking about man? Jean blasted Apocalypse , He would have simply dodged it , since you're clàiming he is a Speedster now.

You're gonna have to prove Superman is much slower than Quicksilver.

Somebody's pulling an h1. Did you watch Age of Apocalypse?

YouTube video

Fast forward to 9:05. Apocalypse has been using his forcefield to block millions of tons of metal that Magneto is flinging at him, as well as Cyclops fully unleashed optic blasts. Then Jean "phoenixes" him for lack of a better phrase, and shatters his astral plane projection that's beating Charles, as well as breaking his concentration so his force field drops. Then, after getting skewered and blasted straight on by Cyke. He manages to put his forcefield back up, but Jean is just disintegrating him with her Phoenix power that you can't see, making it invisible. Then the combined power of Magneto, Cyclops, Storm, and Phoenix kills him. Once again, you don't "see" Phoenix's powers. You simply see her manifesting the Phoenix, and Apocalypse burning to cinders as the power pours over him.

Also, as Apocalypse's TK is powerful enough for him to easily create pyramids and cause earthquakes in Egypt that can be felt as far away as Germany and Poland, and his matter manipulation lets him convert a city into raw material, he should definitely be able to hurt both Clark and Doomsday as he can move millions of tons with no stress at all.

Over 8,202 x's the speed of sound. Dang

Apocalypse is a kinda a glass cannon here. Superman or Dooms could take him out with heat vision. Could he regenerate having his head and half his chest disintegrated? This is of course of the grounds his shields wouldn't stop the HV.

Originally posted by KingD19
Also, as Apocalypse's TK is powerful enough for him to easily create pyramids and cause earthquakes in Egypt that can be felt as far away as Germany and Poland, and his matter manipulation lets him convert a city into raw material, he should definitely be able to hurt both Clark and Doomsday as he can move millions of tons with no stress at all.

Apoc only adapted after getting hit. Not before.
After that scene he was back to normal speed

Originally posted by KingD19
Also, as Apocalypse's TK is powerful enough for him to easily create pyramids and cause earthquakes in Egypt that can be felt as far away as Germany and Poland, and his matter manipulation lets him convert a city into raw material, he should definitely be able to hurt both Clark and Doomsday as he can move millions of tons with no stress at all.

Originally posted by 9jaboy
I seem to have gotten myself a bit of an X-Men freak.
Okay let's do this.
Lemme start with a question
What's the speed of lightning?

Seems I'm dealing with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Why is lightning being brought up? Lightning isn't involved in this conversation as the only "lightning" Flash interacts with is the electricity he creates when running. Which has been a staple of the Flash for years.

But true lightning is around 200kmph.

Again ot doesn't really matter. The calculations are right there. But we can make it simpler. Flash saw a Batarang moving across his vision when thrown by Batman fairly quickly. It took a few seconds in Flash vision for it to pass by him and Bruce was fairly close.

During the white house kitchen scene before his upgrade, it took 2 minutes for bullets to cross from one side of the kitchen to impacting the door where Xavier and Magneto had been before Quicksilver moved them.

So who's faster? The guy who watches a batarang slowly fly past him? Or the guy who had 2 minutes to jog around a kitchen and moved so fast that things only got affected when he stopped running and time continued for everyone else?

Like you could still see Bruce moving fairly slowly in Flash's perception but the people around Quicksilver are frozen solid.

Its not a hard thing to figure out. Quicksilver>>>>>>>Flash>Superman.

Originally posted by KingD19
Seems I'm dealing with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Why is lightning being brought up? Lightning isn't involved in this conversation as the only "lightning" Flash interacts with is the electricity he creates when running. Which has been a staple of the Flash for years.

But true lightning is around 200kmph.

Again ot doesn't really matter. The calculations are right there. But we can make it simpler. Flash saw a Batarang moving across his vision when thrown by Batman fairly quickly. It took a few seconds in Flash vision for it to pass by him and Bruce was fairly close.

During the white house kitchen scene before his upgrade, it took 2 minutes for bullets to cross from one side of the kitchen to impacting the door where Xavier and Magneto had been before Quicksilver moved them.

So who's faster? The guy who watches a batarang slowly fly past him? Or the guy who had 2 minutes to jog around a kitchen and moved so fast that things only got affected when he stopped running and time continued for everyone else?

Like you could still see Bruce moving fairly slowly in Flash's perception but the people around Quicksilver are frozen solid.

Its not a hard thing to figure out. Quicksilver>>>>>>>Flash>Superman.

The lightning flash generates was slowed down as well comparing to Storm's lightning moving slowly when Quicksilver was trying to attack Jean.
They are definitely in the same speed range.
It took Apoc about a long while to stop Qs with mud(lol) after Qs' several punches and even joking around,. With Superman here , only one punch is needed and his head will be splattered all over the place.
Superman can take this team by himself easily.