Originally posted by cdtm
..what does that make the Revolutionary War?Pretty sure it was treason. No laws exist that allow a people to create a country on someone else colony, just because they want to
It was treason from the POV of the English. The founding fathers were also aware of that and gave their reasoning for why it is justified.
The Declaration of Independence is basically a long "We get that some people will say this is treason, but **** the King this is why we are right to do it!"
Declaration of IndependenceWhen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
I guess we get into philosophical territory here, as laws are imaginary, or at least irrelevant, unless backed by physical force. The very existence of any society is built upon a threat of violence, as much as it sucks to think about. If you transgress, the designated enforcers in your society can physically punish you in some way: prison, forced payments, or even death.
I disagree that "might makes right" morally, but it does determine who gets to do what. You can't really make your colony comply if you fight them and lose.
Likewise, had the American Revolution failed, all the leaders would have been tried for treason, if not killed right on the spot.
Treason is a matter of dates - The Count of Monte Cristo, or something.
It's kind of a blanket argument though. The level of treason and reasons why said treason was committed have more bearing on its moral defense than whether or not it is properly treason.
But if you stormed the capitol to overturn an election because far right shit-stirring privately owned cable news shows featuring Tucker "I'm basically a national socialist on TV" Carlson and Donald "I lie about everything, believe me" Trump said so... Well. Treason can be justified in some cases, but it can also be absolutely stupid too.
American conservatives have this awesome niche of being badass gun-toting traditionally masculine alpha male American golden cocks and yet the most oppressed people since the Jews of 1930s Germany.
Apparently, just admitting that your views aren't widely accepted or liked is just difficult for them.