Luke vs Anakin
Father and son face off
(Has this not been done yet? I searched for a few of these matches and couldn’t find them)
R1 ESB Luke vs AoTC Anakin
R2 ROTJ Luke vs ROTS Anakin (beginning of the movie)
R3 Mandolorian/Sequel Trilogy Luke vs Knightfall Anakin
R5 Grandmaster Luke (EU, best showings) vs Anakin (full potential)
All out
Fights take place in snoke’s throne room
Assuming Canon for the first three match ups?
If that's the case, Luke sweeps.
Luke by ESB has far, far more live combat experience than AotC Anakin. On top of that, we know ESB Luke is above the Grand Inquisitor, who is comparable to Asajj Ventress, who is above AotC Anakin. The only edge Anakin really has here is technical skill thanks to his training under the Jedi. But technical skill only goes so far against an opponent who is just objectively more powerful than you, as demonstrated countless times in both Legends and Canon.
Luke in RotJ is Darth Vader's equal in both lightsaber combat and Force power. If anything, Luke has a noticeable edge over Vader. And before someone tries to argue that Vader was hindered, in Canon that is simply not the case. Beware the Power of the Dark Side makes it pretty explicitly clear that Vader was drawing additional strength from fear, while also drawing on his usual hate and anger during his fight against Luke, and it still didn't help him. At no point does it ever mention Vader being weakened. It only ever mentions Vader drawing additional power.
Meanwhile, we have confirmation that Darth Vader is outright stronger than Anakin. Vader also has far, far better feats than anything Anakin has demonstrated in Canon. So Luke being Vader's equal or superior puts Luke leagues above Anakin.
Round three is just a cakewalk for Luke. By this time, Luke has been spending years learning everything he can about ancient Jedi lore, studying other Force disciplines outside of the Jedi and Sith, and has all the knowledge from Jocasta Nu's hidden training temple. He's also hyped to be in the same ballpark as Sidious. It's just no contest.
The last round is kind of hard to call, but I still lean Luke. Luke Skywalker's full potential is the same as Anakin (stated by George Lucas, in a quote something along the lines of, "The son had the potential to become what the father was supposed to be" or something along those lines. I'll have to dig it up some time). So, assuming they have the same potentials, there's two questions to ask: Did Luke ever reach his full potential? And if so, who is better, full potential Luke or full potential Anakin?
In answer to those questions, I'd argue that Luke being capable of Oneness with the Force in a combative sense is evidence that he did reach his full potential. And with that being the case, we can say that Oneness Luke should be able to fight on par with full potential Anakin, given the parity in their potential. So then it comes down to a question of who is more skilled. Even with his full potential available, we only have Anakin's known skill level to go off of. Meanwhile, Grandmaster Luke is a far, far superior swordsman, mastering all 7 lightsaber forms and even helping create new forms that didn't exist during Anakin's time. He also learned a great deal of rare, esoteric Force powers that Anakin would have no knowledge of or experience with. Luke is just better across the board when it comes to skill and feats.
So, yeah, I stand by my statement. Luke sweeps.
Originally posted by Underachiever59
Assuming Canon for the first three match ups?If that's the case, Luke sweeps.
Luke by ESB has far, far more live combat experience than AotC Anakin. On top of that, we know ESB Luke is above the Grand Inquisitor, who is comparable to Asajj Ventress, who is above AotC Anakin. The only edge Anakin really has here is technical skill thanks to his training under the Jedi. But technical skill only goes so far against an opponent who is just objectively more powerful than you, as demonstrated countless times in both Legends and Canon.
Luke in RotJ is Darth Vader's equal in both lightsaber combat and Force power. If anything, Luke has a noticeable edge over Vader. And before someone tries to argue that Vader was hindered, in Canon that is simply not the case. Beware the Power of the Dark Side makes it pretty explicitly clear that Vader was drawing [b]additional
strength from fear, while also drawing on his usual hate and anger during his fight against Luke, and it still didn't help him. At no point does it ever mention Vader being weakened. It only ever mentions Vader drawing additional power.Meanwhile, we have confirmation that Darth Vader is outright stronger than Anakin. Vader also has far, far better feats than anything Anakin has demonstrated in Canon. So Luke being Vader's equal or superior puts Luke leagues above Anakin.
Round three is just a cakewalk for Luke. By this time, Luke has been spending years learning everything he can about ancient Jedi lore, studying other Force disciplines outside of the Jedi and Sith, and has all the knowledge from Jocasta Nu's hidden training temple. He's also hyped to be in the same ballpark as Sidious. It's just no contest.
The last round is kind of hard to call, but I still lean Luke. Luke Skywalker's full potential is the same as Anakin (stated by George Lucas, in a quote something along the lines of, "The son had the potential to become what the father was supposed to be" or something along those lines. I'll have to dig it up some time). So, assuming they have the same potentials, there's two questions to ask: Did Luke ever reach his full potential? And if so, who is better, full potential Luke or full potential Anakin?
In answer to those questions, I'd argue that Luke being capable of Oneness with the Force in a combative sense is evidence that he did reach his full potential. And with that being the case, we can say that Oneness Luke should be able to fight on par with full potential Anakin, given the parity in their potential. So then it comes down to a question of who is more skilled. Even with his full potential available, we only have Anakin's known skill level to go off of. Meanwhile, Grandmaster Luke is a far, far superior swordsman, mastering all 7 lightsaber forms and even helping create new forms that didn't exist during Anakin's time. He also learned a great deal of rare, esoteric Force powers that Anakin would have no knowledge of or experience with. Luke is just better across the board when it comes to skill and feats.
So, yeah, I stand by my statement. Luke sweeps. [/B]
Do you have that quote handy from beware the power of the dark side in regards to Luke being in par with Vader? I'd love to see it.
Originally posted by Forschbewithu
Do you have that quote handy from beware the power of the dark side in regards to Luke being in par with Vader? I'd love to see it.
It's more than just a single quote. Several of the passages throughout Beware the Power of the Dark Side express Luke's superiority:
Vader could end all this right now. He could strike Luke down and be done—if not for his master’s orders. He certainly feels enough hate to do it. Of course, we know, reader, that Vader’s hate is not really hatred of Luke, but of his own past. But Vader has a fear of Luke, too. And fear and hate have long ruled this powerful Sith Lord.
First, this passage shows that Vader's driving force is hatred, but not hatred for Luke. So all arguments about Vader being hindered by his love of Luke don't apply to Canon, since Luke is a reminder of Vader's own past, which is the source of Vader's hatred.
And now the two must fight again.
Blades whirl and clash and spark. Luke crouches low, ready to either dodge or lunge. Vader stands tall and simply pushes forward, driving Luke backward with powerful swings.
But now Luke spins and changes the flow of the attack, surprising Vader who is just a little too slow to turn. Luke rushes in to bring down a mighty two-handed blow. Vader blocks it, but finds himself thrown off balance by the intensity of it. He steps back, not realizing that Luke had driven him to the edge of the stairs.
At the start of the fight, as shown in the movie, Vader is "just a little too slow" when fighting Luke, and Luke's "mighty two-handed blow" is enough for Vader to be "thrown off balance by the intensity of it." Both of these lines imply Luke's superiority over Vader right from the beginning of the duel, which is supported by how the fight played out in the movie (Luke had blitzed Vader and kicked him down the stairs in about 8 seconds from the beginning of the on-screen duel).
“Never!” screams Luke, launching himself out of the gloom, lightsaber blazing, fighting as he has never fought before.
He swings wildly, madly, using the dark side to move faster and strike harder. He has felt anger and hate before, but never this much fear . . . fear for his sister, Leia.
It is too much for Vader. He blocks attack after attack but is pushed back further each time. Always fueled by hatred, he now gathers additional strength from fear . . . but it is not enough. Luke lands a blow on his arm, then one on his side.
The Sith Lord is forced backward until he reaches the bridge over the reactor shaft. Here he tries to strike back, but Luke knocks him down. He sprawls onto the bridge, lifting his lightsaber in a vain attempt to block whatever comes next. But Luke slashes with his saber, slicing Vader’s arm off. The metal limb tumbles down into the shaft, taking the lightsaber with it.
And when Luke gives into his anger and fear for Leia, the novel outright confirms that Vader is "Always fueled by hatred," and "now gathers additional strength from fear." So the Vader that Luke beat at the end of RotJ was actually an amped Vader, fighting above his normal performance level, "but it is not enough."
So base RotJ Luke at the start of the fight is too fast for Vader, and strong enough to off-balance Vader with a two-handed strike, implying superiority over base RotJ Vader. And amped RotJ Luke is massively above amped RotJ Vader at the end of the duel.
Couple these with lines from the actual script of RotJ, and we can see that it is consistent with George Lucas' intent for Luke to be superior to Vader by the time of RotJ.
117 INT EMPEROR'S TOWER - THRONE ROOMLuke and Vader are engaged in a man-to-man duel of lightsabers even
more vicious then the battle on Bespin. But the young Jedi has grown
stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts to him. Vader is
forced back, losing his balance, and is knocked down the stairs. Luke
stands at the top of the stairs, ready to attack.
"The young Jedi has grown stronger in the interim, and now the advantage shifts to him." While the scripts aren't necessarily canon, they do tell us what the intent was when the movie was made, and support the novelization's interpretation of Luke being Vader's superior.