Falcon Vs Vulture
Adrian Toomes aka the "Vulture" from Spider-Man: Homecoming
Vs
Samuel T. Wilson aka the "Falcon" from Avengers: End Game (all feats from previous films allowed)
Falcon gets his standard gear. Vulture is allowed any gear he used in his film, as long as he can feasible carry it. Aerial battle takes place in Arizona above and in the Grand Canyon.
Fight!
Sam should still win. He's faster, more maneuverable, way better at the flying thing, and he not only has Redwing who is fully autonomous and has it's own onboard weapons, but Sam has two fully auto pistols, and several missiles in his wings.
He could probably just shoot Vulture after a quick dogfight.
Falcon should win, I guess. Like it's been said, he could just shoot Vulture.
On the other hand though, using Spidey as a metric? Vulture stomped the living hell out of Spidey solo whereas Spidey stomped both Falcon and Winter Soldier in his very first appearance. On top of that, I don't see Toomes or Spidey having trouble with the super soldiers Falcon has been struggling with in his own show. Falcon also has a bad habit of getting up close for melees, and Shadow is right in that Toomes would rip him in half if he did that. Also, if he tags Falcon with that alien weapon of his, it will one shot him. That's all just me arguing for CIS I guess though. If Falcon keeps his distance and relies on his guns, it shouldn't be a problem.
If the fight happens up close, I'm backing Vulture. Those talons of his will rip Falcon to shreds and his suit seems to give him enough super strength to trade blows with Spiderman. In an aerial dog fight, the win goes to Sam. Vulture is nowhere near as agile a flyer and though his gun is powerful, it's slow and I don't believe he has the targetting systems necessary to outfight Falcon in the air.
Originally posted by FrothByte
If the fight happens up close, I'm backing Vulture. Those talons of his will rip Falcon to shreds and his suit seems to give him enough super strength to trade blows with Spiderman. In an aerial dog fight, the win goes to Sam. Vulture is nowhere near as agile a flyer and though his gun is powerful, it's slow and I don't believe he has the targetting systems necessary to outfight Falcon in the air.
Pretty much this. If Sam uses his speed and agility and ranged weapons well, he should be able to kill Toomes pretty easily. But if they get in a close-up tussle, Toomes could literally tear Sam into tiny pieces. His suit is strong enough that he can lift and carry cars with it.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
I know it's a show but Sam has some serious balls pulling off some of the maneuvers he does. There would be a mile long yellow stream of me pissing myself through most of those acrobatics.
Yeah, you'd need to be kind of a lunatic to be willing to do stuff like this:
Though, realistically, the g-forces from all the sudden changes in direction and speed should turn his insides into mush. But hey, movie physics and plot armour.
I'm trying to remember though, did Toomes have any chest armour? Because while I do think Vulture still has the upper hand in melee, killer-mode Falcon isn't completely helpless.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RepulsiveTallArcticwolf-mobile.mp4
Also, does anyone else think the way Redwing got destroyed in episode 2 of TFATWS was dumb as hell? It's literally got machine guns, missiles and even a laser. There was no reason for Sam to send it in that close. Also noticed that he's not sporting his signature autopistols or explosives for the show, because otherwise the Flag Smashers would have gotten gunned down/blown up during the very first fight on top of the truck. It's like the writers intentionally nerfed Sam's gear to make the Flag Smashers more of a threat and to force him to fight them up close.
Originally posted by TheVaultDwellerMaybe he's trying to tone down gun use? Cap completely left that behind after he stopped fighting Nazis and they are setting him up to take up Caps mantle after all.
Also, does anyone else think the way Redwing got destroyed in episode 2 of TFATWS was dumb as hell? It's literally got machine guns, missiles and even a laser. There was no reason for Sam to send it in that close. Also noticed that he's not sporting his signature autopistols or explosives for the show, because otherwise the Flag Smashers would have gotten gunned down/blown up during the very first fight on top of the truck. It's like the writers intentionally nerfed Sam's gear to make the Flag Smashers more of a threat and to force him to fight them up close.
Someone also put this online concerning Bucky being a worse fighter. Apparently it might just be due to the Winter Soldier conditioning wearing off. Winter Soldier used the metal arm liberally whereas Bucky is right handed so he just forgets to make use of it most of the time. That explains Bucky jobbing and being a generally less effective fighter since Cap 2. Bucky just isn't Winter Soldier.
Originally posted by Arachnid1
Maybe he's trying to tone down gun use? Cap completely left that behind after he stopped fighting Nazis and they are setting him up to take up Caps mantle after all.Someone also put this online concerning Bucky being a worse fighter. Apparently it might just be due to the Winter Soldier conditioning wearing off. Winter Soldier used the metal arm liberally whereas Bucky is right handed so he just forgets to make use of it most of the time. That explains Bucky jobbing and being a generally less effective fighter since Cap 2. Bucky just isn't Winter Soldier.
Maybe. But he was still willing to use Redwing to kill people in the beginning of the show. Not sure if you've watched the finale, but seems more like he
Spoiler:
just didn't want to kill any of the Flag Smashers. Even after everything she did, he still didn't want to kill or even really fight Karli. Bucky also had the opportunity to kill one with a knife in episode 4 but chose to flick it into the floor instead. And, of course, now Sam has the shield, a new suit and a new Redwing, so we'll see how he approaches things in the future.
I don't know whether I buy the arm thing. Despite what he said, if you look at the fights in detail he does still use his robo arm a lot. More than he uses his right arm a lot of the time.
After watching the finale and comparing it to the rest of the show, I'm more convinced that the writers just don't know how to consistently depict skill levels between the characters, because there are things in the finale that don't track with what's been shown previously. I honestly don't know how to rank the character skill levels at this point.