U.S Healthcare

My opinion on this: U.S. Healthcare is a joke, more focused on profit than in health.

Healthcare should be a national security interest, equally meted out to private citizens. Definitely socialized. Anyone found to be profiting unduly from healthcare related services would be in a position to be charged with corruption charges. This should be written into a new amendment to the U.S constitution.

Why is a for profit motive bad ?
Profit is earned if value is provided. The only time this isn't true is when the government involved. Meaning if you want individuals to have access to cheap and effective healthcare the answer would be to have less state intervention.

Another option is that individuals could make better health choices, thus requiring less medical intervention.

Would never work.

Yeah, you can impose strict laws against profiteering. But the fact is the best and brightest aren't altruistic, they want something out of their end. If the money isn't there, they'll go onto something else that does make them truckloads of cash.

And we'll be left with those sad sacks that stuck with government jobs for the benefits and pension. Maybe competent enough, but certainly not the top talent.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
Why is a for profit motive bad ?
Profit is earned if value is provided. The only time this isn't true is when the government involved. Meaning if you want individuals to have access to cheap and effective healthcare the answer would be to have less state intervention.

Another option is that individuals could make better health choices, thus requiring less medical intervention.

I'll answer your question with a series of questions:

Cancer is a common diagnosis:. Would you say the average person in the united States can afford to pay for cancer treatment without health insurance?

Originally posted by cdtm
Would never work.

Yeah, you can impose strict laws against profiteering. But the fact is the best and brightest aren't altruistic, they want something out of their end. If the money isn't there, they'll go onto something else that does make them truckloads of cash.

And we'll be left with those sad sacks that stuck with government jobs for the benefits and pension. Maybe competent enough, but certainly not the top talent.

The best and brightest want profit? Calling bullshit on that one. Greediest and worst maybe.

Once McConnell goes Kentucky will go democratic and the republicans will be in the slums.

Originally posted by truejedi
The best and brightest want profit? Calling bullshit on that one. Greediest and worst maybe.

Of course they want profit. You think Elon does the things he does just because he’s a good person?

Originally posted by truejedi
My opinion on this: U.S. Healthcare is a joke, more focused on profit than in health.

Healthcare should be a national security interest, equally meted out to private citizens. Definitely socialized. Anyone found to be profiting unduly from healthcare related services would be in a position to be charged with corruption charges. This should be written into a new amendment to the U.S constitution.

That you consistently place #1 for the most money spent on healthcare per capita and as overall percentage of budget, but you also manage to place so far down the list of quality of results (often times dead last for OECD countries)... and ya'll seem to be cool with that.

Or the weird dynamic that you seem rabidly horrified of anything "socialist" even though the government pays for 64% of all healthcare spending in a system where only 21% of hospitals are for-profit and non-government owned. God forbid you rip the bandaid off and join the rest of the developed, industrialized world in enacting Universal Coverage.

Like... the f*ck, guys? Why is "the greatest country on Earth", the one that is so rich and powerful, placing 37th on the list? How are you guys worse at healthcare than 36 other countries, including freakishly dissimilar cultures as Oman and Austria, Cyprus and Costa Rica, or Finland and Japan?

Easy Michael Moore...

Here's the truth:

Healthcare cost in the U.S. is prohibitive. No one can afford to pay for it without insurance.

Insurance is before, and after Obamacare, prohibitively expensive. No one can afford to pay for it without having it subsidized through their job.

Rich wins out again, as people cling desperately to low wage jobs out of fear of being diagnosed with something prohibitively expensive between jobs, and losing everything. City streets all over America are full of people who lost their livelihoods, and then lost everything trying to keep their health. Underdeveloped nation indeed.

What good is technology if it's only affordable to a few. America is incapable of caring for all I guess? So much for a world leader...

The same people who mock cities for having homeless problems stand against healthcare for all as a human right. It's beyond immoral.
It's very much a "you poors better stop being so poor" situation.

Originally posted by truejedi
I'll answer your question with a series of questions:

Cancer is a common diagnosis:. Would you say the average person in the united States can afford to pay for cancer treatment without health insurance?

Well both my grandparents and my mom died of cancer. None of them had any debt because they had insurance via working at general motors.

So the average person can (median income in the u.s. is 62k) if they work and have insurance.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
Well both my grandparents and my mom died of cancer. None of them had any debt because they had insurance via working at general motors.

So the average person can (median income in the u.s. is 62k) if they work and have insurance.

Was the insurance linked to their jobs? And if so, would they have continued to have insurance if they had quit the job?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If there's anything that a country's wealth should be spent on, it's the health of the people. That millions of you guys have to choose between paying rent and paying for health...

That you consistently place #1 for the most money spent on healthcare per capita and as overall percentage of budget, but you also manage to place so far down the list of quality of results (often times dead last for OECD countries)... and ya'll seem to be cool with that.

Or the weird dynamic that you seem rabidly horrified of anything "socialist" even though the government pays for 64% of all healthcare spending in a system where only 21% of hospitals are for-profit and non-government owned. God forbid you rip the bandaid off and join the rest of the developed, industrialized world in enacting Universal Coverage.

Like... the f*ck, guys? Why is "the greatest country on Earth", the one that is so rich and powerful, placing 37th on the list? How are you guys worse at healthcare than 36 other countries, including freakishly dissimilar cultures as Oman and Austria, Cyprus and Costa Rica, or Finland and Japan?

I got interested in this question after realizing how far behind the U.S. is the rest of the developed world in healthcare. It isn't even about ethics-- the for profit model has failed.

If for profit models create the best systems, why is the U.S. military socialized instead of privately owned? It has 700 billion in losses every year, and yet persists.

Originally posted by truejedi
Was the insurance linked to their jobs? And if so, would they have continued to have insurance if they had quit the job?

They never had to pay any exorbitant medical bills, so I assume yes, however I'm not sure and see how that would matter.

Edit: why do you think there isn't universal car insurance ?

Originally posted by ilikecomics
They never had to pay any exorbitant medical bills, so I assume yes, however I'm not sure and see how that would matter.

Edit: why do you think there isn't universal car insurance ?

My point is, with health care linked to someone's job, how can they pretend to be free? This is ultimate way for the 1 percent to control the rest: raise the price of healthcare till it is unaffordable by anyone who doesn't have an approved job. (see how much healthcare you get as a private contractor or hourly worker at a fast food restaurant)

Don't have a job? Want to quit your job because you don't have great opportunities there? Want to launch your own business? You now take literally your life into your own hands by quitting. Give up that insurance, and then get sick, and you lose everything.

It is absolutely ridiculous. The for profit method isn't used with water, and it shouldn't be used in a country trying to provide life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness either.

Car insurance is hardly comparable to health care insurance

Yeah, I don't even begin to see a comparison there, didn't even really know how to reply to that.

Originally posted by ilikecomics
Why is a for profit motive bad ?
Profit is earned if value is provided. The only time this isn't true is when the government involved. Meaning if you want individuals to have access to cheap and effective healthcare the answer would be to have less state intervention.

Another option is that individuals could make better health choices, thus requiring less medical intervention.

Because the only way health insurance companies actually make money is by denying care whenever they can.

Originally posted by BackFire
Because the only way health insurance companies actually make money is by denying care whenever they can.

In a private hospital, you think they would only make money by not providing services ? That doesn't make much sense to me.

It makes perfect sense. Insurance companies aren't going to make money by paying for services. They pay for only what is required by law, and little/nothing more. They will skimp whenever they can.