Yeah, but let's be real too, what we've normally seen from Mjolnir (nothing can stop it as said by Thor and Odin), if Hulk tried to swat the hammer away, Mjolnir wouldn't have noticed and gone right through him.
Only other being we've seen stop or alter Mjolnir's path was Hella, but she's supposed to be stronger than Odin on some level and we know she'd shitstomp Kurse.
Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, but let's be real too, what we've normally seen from Mjolnir (nothing can stop it as said by Thor and Odin), if Hulk tried to swat the hammer away, Mjolnir wouldn't have noticed and gone right through him.Only other being we've seen stop or alter Mjolnir's path was Hella, but she's supposed to be stronger than Odin on some level and we know she'd shitstomp Kurse.
Thanos deflected it as well in Endgame.
Also IIRC, the actual quote was that "nothing can stop it from returning to my hand". Not that nothing could stop it from hitting its target.
We have zero feats of someone (of superstrength) trying to swat Mjolnir aside and having zero effect on Mjolnir's trajectory. What we have is feats of characters trying to completely counteract its momentum like what Hulk and Hela did, but that's not the same thing that Kurse did.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, I remember you mentioned you had fight training... which is why it's weird how you can say something so incorrect and ill informed as this:So either you're not as knowledgeable about combat sports as you claim or you didn't rewatch the Thor vs. Kurse fight prior to answering.
I never claimed Kurse was more skilled than Thor. I absolutely agree that he dominated Thor more on toughness and strength. But your claim that Kurse "never displayed any particular h2h skill" is just plain wrong, as he clearly displayed some pretty decent skill in his fight against Thor. You don't need to do flying kicks in order to be skilled you know. It's also very difficult for him to dodge and catch Thor's hits like he did if he wasn't at least close to Thor's speed. And being able to backhand Mjolnir is still more of a skill & speed/agility feat than outright strength.
Don't get me wrong, you obviously need to be quite strong to be able to parry Mjolnir like that, but you wouldn't need anywhere near the kind of strength to completely halt Mjolnir in its tracks like Hela did.
As for Loki about to take a Mjolnir hit to the face in Ragnarok, that was Thor already calling Mjolnir back to him while he had Loki unarmed and locked in his grip. Completely not the same scenario as an armed Loki ready to fight Thor and able to parry hits.
Okay, let me clarify. Kurse showed some basic H2H skills, but I didn't really care for them. They're clearly not the driving factor behind Thor's defeat in my opinion. It was Kurse's superior strength. Kurse was always intended to be stronger than Thor in the comics, so I don't know why you're so adamant about arguing this. Who do you think would win in a fight, Hulk or Kurse? Equalized skills and speed for the sake of the argument.
I don't remember a single instance of Loki blocking a Mjolnir throw tbh, but maybe that's because the fights between Thor and Loki are terrible and I don't want to remember. I do remember that Mjolnir was knocking the Destroyer around like a cheap hooker in the first Thor movie, however.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Okay, let me clarify. Kurse showed some basic H2H skills, but I didn't really care for them. They're clearly not the driving factor behind Thor's defeat in my opinion. It was Kurse's superior strength. Kurse was always intended to be stronger than Thor in the comics, so I don't know why you're so adamant about arguing this. Who do you think would win in a fight, Hulk or Kurse? Equalized skills and speed for the sake of the argument.I don't remember a single instance of Loki blocking a Mjolnir throw tbh, but maybe that's because the fights between Thor and Loki are terrible and I don't want to remember. I do remember that Mjolnir was knocking the Destroyer around like a cheap hooker in the first Thor movie, however.
Let me put it this way. Thor is one of the more skilled fighters in the MCU. Being able to catch someone's punch in your fist halfway through the air is already hard enough to do against some random joe, to do so against a skilled fighter obviously takes a lot of skill. Kurse was able to do this to Thor.
Being able to duck underneath a punch, side-step far enough to the side that you end up on their blind spot, yet still be close enough to throw a mid-range punch takes quite a lot of skill, enough so that not all professional boxers are able to do so. For Kurse to be able to do that to someone as skilled as Thor, especially considering how bulky Kurse is, takes a lot of skill.
To be able to backhand a fast moving projectile coming from behind your back, that takes a lot of skill and quite a lot of reflexes too. I'm not saying Kurse is more skilled than Thor, but he beat Thor by a combination of his greater strength TOGETHER with his not inconsiderable skill.
Kurse may not look fancy, but that doesn't mean he isn't skilled. Remember that he was a trained warrior who's thousands of years old prior to his transformation.
Khabib Nurmagomedov doesn't look fancy either. That doesn't mean he isn't skilled.
If Kurse and Hulk fought, then I have no doubts that Kurse wins due to his greater skill. If their skill and speed were equalized then it's a toss up. Kurse seems a tougher since Thor's punches affect him less than they did Hulk, but at the same time Kurse doesn't have raw displays of strength as impressive as Hulk nor has he shown the same mobility as Hulk.
Originally posted by FrothByte
I guess you don't know what "opposite direction" actually means then.
I guess you don't understand basic vector arithmetic and what components cancel.
If you don't understand the basic concept of altering the direction of momentum by 90 degrees or more means canceling the momentum Completely then you shouldn't be debating this topic.
Originally posted by h1a8
I guess you don't understand basic vector arithmetic and what components cancel.If you don't understand the basic concept of altering the direction of momentum by 90 degrees or more means canceling the momentum Completely then you shouldn't be debating this topic.
You claimed Kurse sent Mjolnir in the "opposite direction". Are you saying diverting a path by 90 degrees is considered the opposite direction?
Originally posted by K-Dog
It more or less is, involving stopping all forward momentum from the original throw/Odin magic.
If the hammer goes 90 degrees from the original direction , it no longer gains any distance toward the original direction. Zero. It’s original directional momentum has been completely stopped. Yay.
That wasn't the question. The question was, do you consider turning aside a projectile by 90 degrees as you throwing it in the "opposite direction"?
And note that I'm only humoring H1 here. Anyone who watched the Kurse vs. Thor fight can clearly see it was far less than 90 degrees.
Originally posted by FrothByte
That wasn't the question. The question was, do you consider turning aside a projectile by 90 degrees as you throwing it in the "opposite direction"?And note that I'm only humoring H1 here. Anyone who watched the Kurse vs. Thor fight can clearly see it was far less than 90 degrees.
Just curious, how would you order these guys by skill?
Originally posted by FrothByte
You claimed Kurse sent Mjolnir in the "opposite direction". Are you saying diverting a path by 90 degrees is considered the opposite direction?
Originally posted by riv6672
^^^This must be what it was like sailing w. Columbus.Just curious, how would you order these guys by skill?
Yeah, ridiculous how they try so hard to pass this bullshit off.
Anyway, as for skill I'd list them as follows:
1. Thor
2. Kurse
3. Giantman
4. Hulk
In theory, Hulk should be more skilled than Giantman after his stint in Sakaar, but unfortunately the succeeding movies never gave him a good enough fight to showcase these skills. So based on feats, Giantman/Antman has displayed better skills.
Originally posted by h1a8
No, 90 degrees or more is considered COMPLETELY stopping the forward momentum of Mjolnir. Kurse didn't completely hit Mjolnir in the opposite direction (180 degrees) as I previously thought.
Ok. So we're at least in agreement that Kurse didn't get Mjolnir moving in the opposite direction then yes?
Would you then agree that, had he slapped Mjolnir by 90 degrees or more, that Mjolnir would therefore not have hit anything that was originally in front of it?