Originally posted by carver9Oh, I was just saying the Hulkbusters are jobbers in general. The only real noteworthy one was the Hulkbuster that took on a holding back World War Hulk since it outperformed some solid heavy hitters.
Not in this case since he used it to amp himself. His standard armor did absolutely nothing, so he resorted to gearing up. Why would he add armor if it would make him weaker?
As far as original sin goes, I actually don't see Iron Man's performance in a super bad light there. Model 42 was not as good as it's predecessor (Bleeding Edge), but even for a direct downgrade it was still one of the better modern suits. I remember it had good showings against Indestructible Hulk and Zombie Abomination in particular (mainly physical and durability wise, but it hurt Abomination with repulsors once). Zombie Abomination was very strong tbh. The Hulkbuster Model 42 wore in Original Sin gave Iron Man one of his best quantifiable feats when he said something like "this has repulsors and sonics hitting with enough force to power a continent" and they did hurt/bother Hulk a little IIRC. It wasn't the best Hulkbuster, but I think it's fair to say Hulk was pretty angry at Stark so it feels more like a case of Hulk being too strong rather than Iron Man under-performing. I still would argue that's really good compared to Scott's eye blast. Suits like Bleeding Edge or Endo-sym are probably even more powerful than that Hulkbuster.
@Broom
They are and they aren't.
Some job like crazy, other do good against Professor or World War Hulk... or mop the floor with Avengers (Argonaut HB).
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Anyway, I don't think anyone here has trouble imagining Hulk wading through repulsors if mad enough --- but we still should discuss on-panel showings and it just so happens that Cyclops consistently gets the "Epic Fail of the Year" award when it comes to the Hulk, while Tony does not.
Simple as that, really. And all that is needed for the purpose of this thread.
True Cyclops supporters (instead of gamma fanboys, looking at you, carver) would make a smart decision and move on to other comparisons. Sticking to the Hulk topic does Scott no good.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWI forgot about the Argonaut, that one was decent. The one that fought professor Hulk wasn't necessarily weak, but Professor Hulk didn't even want to fight the guy and they were even lol It feels like a big anti-feat for the standard armors more than anything. I prefer seeing Iron Man holding his own against powerhouses in regular armors to be honest.
@BroomThey are and they aren't.
Some job like crazy, other do good against Professor or World War Hulk... or mop the floor with Avengers (Argonaut HB).
The buster suits in general are a meme at this point and have a pretty bad rep of losing. The Godkiller MK 2 that fought Dark Celestials was alright and had a country level fight IIRC, that isn't much considering standards armors already have country+ feats. Thorbuster was really good and probably could've won if it fought normal Thor. The rest of the busters are kinda meh and tacky. It would be better if Stark prepped smarter like Doctor Doom or Batman, but this is going off-topic.
Cyclops' only chance of being better here is that one time where his blast apparently hits Juggernaut with enough power to rip a small planet. Even then, Iron Man probably could scale better if he's allowed to absorb a decent amount of energy like he did against Graviton, Surfer, Terrax ect. in the past.
Regular Iron Man did beat Hulkbuster 😉
Originally posted by BroomShroom
Cyclops' only chance of being better here is that one time where his blast apparently hits Juggernaut with enough power to rip a small planet.
Lip service and hyperbole, that's all it is.
Cyclops was also said to be able to pulverize adamantium - and he obviously can't do that.
Blastaar actually did that, even if arguably it was just an inferior alloy or secondary adamantium (if we factor in retcons, that is) --- but an on-panel feat is always better than empty boasts.
And Iron Man did win the beam struggle against him.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Regular Iron Man did beat Hulkbuster 😉Lip service and hyperbole, that's all it is.
Cyclops was also said to be able to pulverize adamantium - and he obviously can't do that.
Blastaar actually did that, even if arguably it was just an inferior alloy or secondary adamantium (if we factor in retcons, that is) --- but an on-panel feat is always better than empty boasts.
And Iron Man did win the beam struggle against him.
You mean that Argonaut, or something else? Wouldn't be surprised if he did it more than once lol
His current armor managed to punch through adamantium, so I imagine some of his more advanced armors could blast through it. At times though, it seems like Iron Man hits harder than he could blast in contrary to his repulsors always being better like some people believe.
If Unibeam on the otherhand was allowed here, Cyclops definitely gets blown out of the water by far lmao
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Regular Iron Man did beat Hulkbuster 😉Lip service and hyperbole, that's all it is.
Cyclops was also said to be able to pulverize adamantium - and he obviously can't do that.
Blastaar actually did that, even if arguably it was just an inferior alloy or secondary adamantium (if we factor in retcons, that is) --- but an on-panel feat is always better than empty boasts.
And Iron Man did win the beam struggle against him.
To be fair, I feel like Marvel hasn't really done a good job of showing Cyclops's ceiling. I'm not saying he should be knocking out the Hulk, but I feel like there's a massive gulf between what we've seen, and what we could see.
Then again, he's one of the X-Men, so that's par for the course.
Originally posted by BroomShroom
You mean that Argonaut, or something else? Wouldn't be surprised if he did it more than once lol
Nah, not Argonaut.
Classic Hulkbuster, the one that faced Professor Hulk.
Tony beat it by firing repulsors, pulse-beam, tasers, flamethrowers and lasers all at the same time.
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Then there was a time when Endo-Sym armor ripped apart the A.I. controlled WWH-buster suit.
Originally posted by BroomShroom
His current armor managed to punch through adamantium, so I imagine some of his more advanced armors could blast through it.
Cardiac's dome was made out of adamantium-vibranium mix.
Which, in theory, would make it superior and comparable with Cap's shield... but in practice, adamantium-vibranium doesn't mix well and has been broken plenty of times. So often that we can't take it seriously, especially if we compare its performance to that of grade "A" adamantium.
But again - having such a feat under one's belt is better than a meaningless lip service moment.
Originally posted by -Pr-
To be fair, I feel like Marvel hasn't really done a good job of showing Cyclops's ceiling. I'm not saying he should be knocking out the Hulk, but I feel like there's a massive gulf between what we've seen, and what we could see.Then again, he's one of the X-Men, so that's par for the course.
I think that's because Scott excels at other areas rather than pure power.
Not much different from Captain America or Mister Fantastic - they are team leaders, too. But not because of their raw power, obviously.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTWCardiac's dome was made out of adamantium-vibranium mix.
Which, in theory, would make it superior and comparable with Cap's shield... but in practice, adamantium-vibranium doesn't mix well and has been broken plenty of times. So often that we can't take it seriously, especially if we compare its performance to that of grade "A" adamantium.
But again - having such a feat under one's belt is better than a meaningless lip service moment.
Iron Man didn't blast through that adamantium/vibrainium/Iron sphere, but he his repulsors have actually stopped magnitude 9-11 Earthquake before as well as matched power with people who likely exceed anything Scott has going for him. A high-end optic blast might even be equal to average repulsor strength based on the best I've seen from it.
Originally posted by BroomShroom
Model 70 is actually a rather impressive armor and the repulsors couldn't get through it, but his punch did. I'd say it may not be as strong as pure adamantium, but it probably was above low-grade/secondary adamantium. If it was even a fraction of Cap's shields durability then it's still a high level feat for Iron Man to have pulled off.
Of course it is. Its very first feat was shitstomping Terrax, after all.
Yeah, I remember the scene, I know his "flying" punch did it. He needed momentum.
Too bad we got an anti-feat of sorts later in the series, when Tony and Rhodey were trying to figure out how to increase the armor's punching power, so it would damage graphene.
Graphene might be the strongest material known to exist IRL, but it doesn't --- or shouldn't --- hold a candle to the fictional alloys.
As for the adamantium-vibranium mix being superior to secondary adamantium - maybe, maybe not.
Does it make sense? Of course it does. But considering the notorious bad rep/poor showings of adamantium-vibranium alloys in the mainstream universe, we can't bet on it.
Nonetheless, as I said, such a feat is infinitely better than an empty boast (ripping a small planet in half, pulverizing adamantium) with nothing in Cyclops' canonical history capable of backing it up.
Originally posted by BroomShroom
Iron Man didn't blast through that adamantium/vibrainium/Iron sphere, but he his repulsors have actually stopped magnitude 9-11 Earthquake before as well as matched power with people who likely exceed anything Scott has going for him. A high-end optic blast might even be equal to average repulsor strength based on the best I've seen from it.
Good post.
Since not even Pr is willing to rep Cyke here, I'm forced to play the devil's advocate to keep this thread going.
He actually did this to Fin Fang Foom:
https://i.imgur.com/aglzUhF.jpg
Sure, Fin was mind-controlled and got up on the next page --- but I don't remember repulsors having this great of an effect on him, do you?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cyclops was also said to be able to pulverize adamantium - and he obviously can't do that.Blastaar actually did that, even if arguably it was just an inferior alloy or secondary adamantium (if we factor in retcons, that is) --- but an on-panel feat is always better than empty boasts.
And Iron Man did win the beam struggle against him.
Scans?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
[B]Of course it is. Its very first feat was shitstomping Terrax, after all.
That was actually Extremis lol he technically shouldn't even be able to use Extremis armor that well without the virus, but writers forgot. The fact that he took out Terrax so decisively and not even in a "street level" manner shows Cantwell has a pretty high-view of Iron Man. Model 70 did in fact have a real impressive showing against Ultimo.
Good post.Since not even Pr is willing to rep Cyke here, I'm forced to play the devil's advocate to keep this thread going.
He actually did this to Fin Fang Foom
Sure, Fin was mind-controlled and got up on the next page --- but I don't remember repulsors having this great of an effect on him, do you?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Here:
Appreciate it, you think it can at least pulverize secondary adamantium?
What was BroomShroom banned for? 🙁
Anyone knows? Probably socking? But who was (s)he a sock of?
Originally posted by BroomShroom
That was actually Extremis lol he technically shouldn't even be able to use Extremis armor that well without the virus, but writers forgot. The fact that he took out Terrax so decisively and not even in a "street level" manner shows Cantwell has a pretty high-view of Iron Man. Model 70 did in fact have a real impressive showing against Ultimo.
It was Extremis? It was stated on panel?
Yeah, I remember Fraction elaborated on how Tony can't pilot this particular suit well without the virus. On the beginning of Dark Reign, after the events of Secret Invasion... in his solo book, The Invincible Iron Man.
Originally posted by BroomShroom
Model Prime had hurt Fin Fang Foom and pushed it's head back, but you're right Cyclops did better. I knew of that showing and I'm surprised no one brought it up sooner lol.
Iron Man's high-end showing completely obliterates Cyclops' though. He vaped Fin Fang Foom along with several mountains, and shook the entire planet enough to alert Peter's Spider sense by just adding his own repulsor power to Mandarin's rings in Iron Man (1968) #275
Good post 👆
Originally posted by Classic NES
Appreciate it, you think it can at least pulverize secondary adamantium?
Anything is possible in comics and the whole idea of secondary adamantium is how breakable it is 😛
I'd say it's not likely, as it took the power level of Blastaar to achieve such a feat.
Someone like Havok would have a better chance, as he appears to be more powerful and has already done so to the alternate universe adamantium. With his consciousness inhabiting the body his alternate self, which complicates it further (and technically invalidates it in our discussions, but I still couldn't stop myself from mentioning it).
We'd need a good list of fictional materials and alloys Scott managed to damage in canon before we could guess his upper limit.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What was BroomShroom banned for? 🙁Anyone knows? Probably socking? But who was (s)he a sock of?
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Why this new guy(assuming he isn't a sock or something) got banned?I'm genuinely surprised. Judging from the few posts he made he seems to be reasonable guy
