Durability challenge

Originally posted by CosmicComet
And Roshi would have died from that attack. Seeing as it damaged Goku who was equal to Piccolo at that time.

Saint, do me a favor and actually watch the series so you can understand how it works

Attack Potency in Dragon Ball is massively pushed. It's far more important than destructive capability.

Goku would have literally batted Roshi's moon buster or outright tanked it at that point. But Piccolo's blast was far stronger.

Yes, but how powerful was the attack? Not that difficult to answer, surely? It destroyed an island.

I mean, we can go the power-scaling route, and ignore the collateral damage, which is fine - we do that all the time in comics. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that.

In which case, I take THIS scene:
https://imgur.com/a/8jGMQ

And scale off Earth-1 Superman's greatest durability feats? Hell, I can even bring Pre-Crisis in if needed.

Earth-1 Superman <<<<Hercules <<<<Kingdom Come Superman based on him casually no-selling Herc's strike. Then we go from there.

I mean, how else would you quantify the attack, before we start naming who can or can't tank it?

I guess I assume because it was Carver, we were basing the potency of the attack on its collateral damage - he usually uses that in arguments. So based on that (and only that), then the attack isn't that impressive.

If we are basing it on fear etc and who it actually killed/damaged, that's a different matter, and I would present different scans and arguments for a different logic used.

You're bringing up some high tier characters for this showing which makes it extremely impressive, especially considering how weak Goku was there.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, but how powerful was the attack? Not that difficult to answer, surely? It destroyed an island.

I mean, we can go the power-scaling route, and ignore the collateral damage, which is fine - we do that all the time in comics. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that.

In which case, I take THIS scene:
https://imgur.com/a/8jGMQ

And scale off Earth-1 Superman's greatest durability feats? Hell, I can even bring Pre-Crisis in if needed.

Earth-1 Superman <<<<Hercules <<<<Kingdom Come Superman based on him casually no-selling Herc's strike. Then we go from there.

I mean, how else would you quantify the attack, before we start naming who can or can't tank it?

As for power, it's at the very least moon busting energy (piccolo put plenty of effort into the blast so this is a lowball) condensed into a small island level blast.

Think of the multiplier that would bring.

Imagine the force of Deontay Wilder's best punch concentrated on the edge of a sword. Probably would be a similar multiplier.

As for scaling, manga and anime is much more internally consistent due to it being a conscious effort from a single author to escalate their characters.

As an example: Frieza was a casual planet buster at even like under 1% power or something ridiculous like that. Not that he used 1% of his power to bust a planet mind you, but he was using a form that was less than 1% of his final form's power and even *in* that lesser form he did it with no effort. So it could have been 25% of 1% or something like that. Then a few years later two of Frieza's henchman came to earth and they were each suddenly as strong as final form Frieza. And yet by that time they were considered child's play. Literally, Goku and Vegeta's ~10 year old sons were allowed to fight these two because they didn't think it would be fair otherwise.

So for Post-Crisis Supes -> Hercules -> KC Supes scaling you'd have to prove how strong Herc's punch was meant to be. Maybe you can use Post-Crisis Supes feats from the same arc or at least the same writer in the same era to start the scaling chain all the way up to KC Supes.

But just pulling the best post crisis supes feat to start the scaling chain doesn't really work. Different writers have different opinions. Post crisis Supes once claimed an all out punch of his would split the moon. Maybe if the scaling started from there KC Supes could tank it.

But what if Herc only applied a mountain busting punch? Less than that has hurt post crisis supes afterall.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here:
https://i.imgur.com/FczSEhf.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/8SDDsHv.jpeg

But how powerful is Gog?

One shots KC Superman and Amazing Man (who had taken on the properties of his staff):
https://i.imgur.com/GSWmQ2e.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/dZWLC7w.jpeg

Now, KC Superman:
No-sells Herc (who sent normal Superman flying):
https://imgur.com/a/8jGMQ

After 5 Shazam bolts at point blank:
https://i.imgur.com/urE2Jwo.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/hhotOEt.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/kXRB9av.jpeg

then proceeds to be at ground zero of a multi-megaton nuke that can vaporise a county AND three Shazam bolts:

Such sexy scenes. Loved all those arcs

Originally posted by carver9
You're bringing up some high tier characters for this showing which makes it extremely impressive, especially considering how weak Goku was there.

What's happening in the video? Are we power scaling or are we using collateral damage? What are you asking for?

Because as Stilt points out, your video shows people using gimmicks to tank it, whilst you're asking for no gimmicks.

Making this a fail thread from the start, which I am not letting die as a courtesy.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
As for power, it's at the very least moon busting energy (piccolo put plenty of effort into the blast so this is a lowball) condensed into a small island level blast.

Think of the multiplier that would bring.

Imagine the force of Deontay Wilder's best punch concentrated on the edge of a sword. Probably would be a similar multiplier.

As for scaling, manga and anime is much more internally consistent due to it being a conscious effort from a single author to escalate their characters.

As an example: Frieza was a casual planet buster at even like under 1% power or something ridiculous like that. Not that he used 1% of his power to bust a planet mind you, but he was using a form that was less than 1% of his final form's power and even *in* that lesser form he did it with no effort. So it could have been 25% of 1% or something like that. Then a few years later two of Frieza's henchman came to earth and they were each suddenly as strong as final form Frieza. And yet by that time they were considered child's play. Literally, Goku and Vegeta's ~10 year old sons were allowed to fight these two because they didn't think it would be fair otherwise.

So for Post-Crisis Supes -> Hercules -> KC Supes scaling you'd have to prove how strong Herc's punch was meant to be. Maybe you can use Post-Crisis Supes feats from the same arc or at least the same writer in the same era to start the scaling chain all the way up to KC Supes.

But just pulling the best post crisis supes feat to start the scaling chain doesn't really work. Different writers have different opinions. Post crisis Supes once claimed an all out punch of his would split the moon. Maybe if the scaling started from there KC Supes could tank it.

But what if Herc only applied a mountain busting punch? Less than that has hurt post crisis supes afterall.

But we don't do that. We don't say 'Jurgens Superman' or 'Morrison Superman' or 'Bendis Superman', when we say 'Superman'.

It's all Superman.

With Full Capacity on. And the scaling chain doesn't start with moon busting - Superman, whilst nearly dead, destroyed a planet just by jumping off it. THAT'S where we start the scaling.

Silly, I know. And it throws up all manner of contradictions, not least, someone like Batman suddenly becoming an abstract level being.

But this is why we don't cross anime Vs comics, and why this thread is stupid. The thread creator, I am not passing judgement on how stupid they are, but we are crossing two completely different art forms and rules.

Next: who is stronger, Bugs Bunny or Wonder Woman? Who can replicate this Daffy Duck feat in the DBZ universe? Who is more powerful, God from the Bible or Piccolo?

So to give the thread a chance, we have to just use collateral, as at least that is consistent across art forms. Being able to bench a car, assuming it's not a special car lol, is impressive for a normal human regardless of their universe. Able to eat their bodyweight in lightbulbs is impressive, able to run 100m in 10 seconds, that kinda thing.

Assuming no special gimmicks like ki etc, of course.
Nonsensical, I'm sure you'll agree.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What's happening in the video? Are we power scaling or are we using collateral damage? What are you asking for?

Because as Stilt points out, your video shows people using gimmicks to tank it, whilst you're asking for no gimmicks.

Making this a fail thread from the start, which I am not letting die as a courtesy.

At that time, Goku didn't know how to fly, so I don't know how he was able to ground himself there. Flying off during the blast isn't enduring what Goku endured there. He withstood all of his while only moving some inches.

Originally posted by carver9
At that time, Goku didn't know how to fly, so I don't know how he was able to ground himself there. Flying off during the blast isn't enduring what Goku endured there. He withstood all of his while only moving some inches.

Originally posted by carver9
At that time, Goku didn't know how to fly, so I don't know how he was able to ground himself there. Flying off during the blast isn't enduring what Goku endured there. He withstood all of his while only moving some inches.

Oh, so are you saying it's PIS? Interesting that it's completely inexplicable.

In which case, Batman does it easily, lmao.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Oh, so are you saying it's PIS? Interesting that it's completely inexplicable.

In which case, Batman does it easily, lmao.

Never said it's PIS. I'm only asking who can endure the attack the same way Goku did. Superman lifting up a city without it crumbling, we can't call it PIS because he did it, how he did it, I don't know but it happened. Hyperion lifting up Atlantis without it crumbling. I don't know how that happened but it happened. Hulk lifting up the weight of the sun on Earth, Superman bench pressing planetary weight on Earth, Solaris generating above sun levels heat on Earth, Galactus going all out on an abandoned planet without it crumbling, Quicksilver going light speed on Earth without causing devastation to the planet. You have a lot of showing to discredit as PIS. Hope you've made some time throughout your day to make a list of what we need to throw away as PIS showings so that we can drop some of these people even lower on the tier list. Good luck!!!

lol even when Carter uses loose comparisons, he still lowballs.

Originally posted by -Pr-
lol even when Carter uses loose comparisons, he still lowballs.

Lol... that's not lowballing though.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... that's not lowballing though.

Sure it's not.

Originally posted by carver9
Never said it's PIS. I'm only asking who can endure the attack the same way Goku did. Superman lifting up a city without it crumbling, we can't call it PIS because he did it, how he did it, I don't know but it happened. Hyperion lifting up Atlantis without it crumbling. I don't know how that happened but it happened. Hulk lifting up the weight of the sun on Earth, Superman bench pressing planetary weight on Earth, Solaris generating above sun levels heat on Earth, Galactus going all out on an abandoned planet without it crumbling, Quicksilver going light speed on Earth without causing devastation to the planet. You have a lot of showing to discredit as PIS. Hope you've made some time throughout your day to make a list of what we need to throw away as PIS showings so that we can drop some of these people even lower on the tier list. Good luck!!!

And what is the attack? Are we using collateral damage or power scaling?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And what is the attack? Are we using collateral damage or power scaling?

We are using the attack that's in that scene...&#128528;&#128528;&#128528;

It only destroyed an island.

So island busting attacks, got ya. That's..... impressive? &#128528;

Kingdom Come Superman tanked a nuke that would've vapourised a county, which was mixed with magic, whilst weakened.

He wasn't blown away, nothing.

A guy who one shot KC Superman AND Amazing Man, was unable to even budge Citizen Steel.

DCeased Superman and WW were at the ground center of the largest explosion known to man, and just had scratches iirc.

Remember, we are using what's shown in that scene. So nothing else 😈

Yep, the same attack Goku withstood. You're just replacing said characters with Goku. &#128545;&#128545;&#128545;

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But we don't do that. We don't say 'Jurgens Superman' or 'Morrison Superman' or 'Bendis Superman', when we say 'Superman'.

It's all Superman.

In a pure Vs Thread yes, it's all Superman.

Specifically the main continuity Superman, he would definitely tank Piccolo's blast based on even a handful of only his mid level feats.

But would KC Superman? I'm not convinced.

Obviously that may come across weird since KC Superman came across superior to Post Crisis Supes in a confrontation with Hercules.

But how strong is Hercules? I don't for one second believe Hercules is strong enough to break a planet while jumping and while near dead. Not the same story.

And I don't think KC Superman himself would come close to performing the best feats that Post Crisis could if put in the same situations.

His own feats/anti feats are many tiers worse than Post Crisis Supes' and in the end he isn't metatextually important at the same level as primary Supes is. Which can arguably be used to explain the latter's great variances in performances.

Long story short, If you just said Post Crisis/Post Rebirth Supes would tank Piccolo's blast then I would have agreed. Hell I still argue Supes at his best could beat current Goku who is well past universal levels.

But using the Primary version of Supes to upscale another version of Supes from an alternate universe to say that alt Supes could tank the attack? That's where I have questions because Primary Supes varies so much story to story. We don't know how strong Herc's punch was.

Originally posted by carver9
Yep, the same attack Goku withstood. You're just replacing said characters with Goku. &#128545;&#128545;&#128545;

KC Superman can do it then, based on the effects of said attack.