Noam Chomsky: "Trump is right on Ukraine/Russia"

Originally posted by Robtard
Not sure about the UK, but here when you bring up common sense things like caring for the environment because we all need clean air, water and food, a proper universal Healthcare system, because a healthy county is better than a sick country and proper education, because a higher educated country is better than a low, the Right stars dropping the dirty S word "socialism" and it all goes to shit. Or the new one "Socialism Plus".

"Trump Claims Biden Will Try To Impose 'Socialism Plus' If Elected"
YouTube video

Originally posted by Blakemore
I think healthcare, education and environmental research are good things to invest in. The real question is, should they be privatised or nationalised? I think nationalised. A democratic system that understands these things as fundamental rights is better than just letting people run riot, so to speak.

You realize corruption is corruption right?

If you hate Elon Musk, he'll control your privatized health care. If you hate Trump, he'll control your nationalized health care.

The people you do like won't always be in power.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
The Tories are trying to make it so Rob. Fortunately the young aren't going for it.

They're like two sides of the same shit coin.

Originally posted by Robtard
They're like two sides of the same shit coin.

Tories are better IMO. Because we have free healthcare and investment in renewable energy even under them.

Plus they gave a hell of a lot more help to working people during Covid (mostly 2020, and a bit in 2021 but not currently).

In the UK, we don't call it "socialism" we call it "National Insurance."

Giving people the right to live so they can later contribute themselves.

Originally posted by Blakemore
In the UK, we don't call it "socialism" we call it "National Insurance."

Giving people the right to live so they can later contribute themselves.

Right, handouts.

We do that so people could not get jobs because they don't feel like it.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
i question that, a socialist libertarian, isn't the same as a socialist.

Originally posted by cdtm
Right, handouts.

We do that so people could not get jobs because they don't feel like it.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Most socialists nowadays aren't out to completely eradicate Capitalism. They usually argue for a Scandinavian model. Free Healthcare, Education, decent benefits where needed. Invest in the environment as well.

But they still allow people to run business, invest and make money. Although they might believe in more progressives taxes for higher earners.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I question that you could elaborate on that statement in a manner which would hold up to scrutiny.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What you're saying is that the label of socialist is being coopted by people that aren't actually socialists. The Scandinavians are capitalists. If more capitalism is the objective of socialism now, then the word doesn't mean much of anything anyways.

Well they call themselves Social Democrats. But the Right wont let that label stick. They insist on calling them Socialists and Communists in order to scaremonger people into not voting them.

Originally posted by cdtm
Right, handouts.

We do that so people could not get jobs because they don't feel like it.

Nah we do that so people arent homeless and starving to death as if we are a third world nation.

We also do that to give their children equal opportunities. Do you not believe in equal opportunities ?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah we do that so people arent homeless and starving to death as if we are a third world nation.

We also do that to give their children equal opportunities. Do you not believe in equal opportunities ?

I do!

I'm fine with the intent, it's the abusers I take issue with. A money for a huckster is less money for the intended purpose.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah we do that so people arent homeless and starving to death as if we are a third world nation.

We also do that to give their children equal opportunities. Do you not believe in equal opportunities ?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Libertarian Socialism isn't inclusive or collective. It's about people who can choose to help others, it's more akin to classical right-wing (fantasy) trickle-down economics. It provides no secure safety nets and relies on people being altruistic when they have the means to support others. It's hogwash.

With regard to safety nets, I'm aware that things can get messy when discussing hypothetical forms of society, but for Chomsky's part, I haven't heard of him prescribing anything for the U.S. welfare state other than its expansion? It's not like I'm an expert on the guy's politics though, maybe you can enlighten me.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That's still awfully vague. Not inclusive of whom, or what? Who chooses to provide for whom? Your comparison to trickle down economics is particularly lost on me; what is the similarity between an ideology of subsidizing the capitalist class, and an ideology that rejects the capitalist class' right to exist?

With regard to safety nets, I'm aware that things can get messy when discussing hypothetical forms of society, but for Chomsky's part, I haven't heard of him prescribing anything for the U.S. welfare state other than its expansion? It's not like I'm an expert on the guy's politics though, maybe you can enlighten me.