who is the best magic user in DC?
Dr.fate?shazam?Phantom Stranger？hecate?Lords of Order/chaos?Mxyzptlk？Trigon？neron?First of the Fallen？Upside-Down Man?Etrigan？Merlin?thessally?sycorax?
or even morningstar?elaine?spectre?Michael？Eclipso？synnar?the unkindness?
TIM?
Re: why
Originally posted by Oneiros
You can check the respect thread Galan made
I think we need a better explanation of what you mean by "best:.
On the one hand there's power level, on the other there is adeptness, and then there is also potential. For example we have someone like Arion who's power when compared to someone like Fate is substantially lower yet he competes on the same level and battles characters in that tier. He uses and older form or magic and has a more driven approach. Most DC mystics don't push the envelope because of the cost, Arion often does which frequently leaves him depowered. Then you have the like of Constantine who's direct access to power is vastly less than even Arion but he also competes on the same level.
In terms of best magic user when you consider their applocation of knowledge of magic and the creative way they use it
1. Constantine
2. Arion/ Dr Occult
4. Nabu /Mordru
Constantine, Arion and Occult wouldn't even be a consideration in power level.
In terms of knowledge of magic
1. Phantom Stranger
2. Nabu
3. Calcula (Arion's father)
4. Mordru
In terms of power (excluding divinities that aren't just magic)
1. MXY
2. Spectre
3. Nabu/ Mordru/ Phantom Stranger
6. Timothy Hunter.
Apologies if I've over thought the topic
Originally posted by beatboks
.
I think we need a better explanation of what you mean by "best:.On the one hand there's power level, on the other there is adeptness, and then there is also potential. For example we have someone like Arion who's power when compared to someone like Fate is substantially lower yet he competes on the same level and battles characters in that tier. He uses and older form or magic and has a more driven approach. Most DC mystics don't push the envelope because of the cost, Arion often does which frequently leaves him depowered. Then you have the like of Constantine who's direct access to power is vastly less than even Arion but he also competes on the same level.
In terms of best magic user when you consider their applocation of knowledge of magic and the creative way they use it
1. Constantine
2. Arion/ Dr Occult
4. Nabu /MordruConstantine, Arion and Occult wouldn't even be a consideration in power level.
In terms of knowledge of magic
1. Phantom Stranger
2. Nabu
3. Calcula (Arion's father)
4. MordruIn terms of power (excluding divinities that aren't just magic)
1. MXY
2. Spectre
3. Nabu/ Mordru/ Phantom Stranger
6. Timothy Hunter.Apologies if I've over thought the topic
Originally posted by Bentley
And then there is the fact they'd all fall to Batman with prep
Is this prep one sided?
I mean with prep Constantine would beat Batman.
I think Arion would also. For one thing he could use artefacts he has access to to preview the Batlle and know what he was going to face. When he appeared in Superman he was judging Supes for things he hadn't done yet.
Occult also has that nifty ability to step outside time and watch things to know intimate details he shouldn't be aware of.
I dont see how Batman beats someone who if they have equal prep to him can know what he'll do in advance and have countered his moves before he makes them.
This would be PIS because it requires them to just not use abilities we've seen then use when in character to allow Batman to win.
Even a depowered Arion (with no interest magic left and relying on his knowledge of magic and tricks) still had enough clarevoyance to perceive an arrow fired at his back and catch it. Still had enough mystic senses to sword fight blind folded and dodge attacks. When he wasn't depowered (because he'd used too much power) he couldbsense threats that hadn't yet entered earth's orbit.
Originally posted by beatboks
I think we need a better explanation of what you mean by "best:.
firstly,thank for your reply.
but i have to say i am not agree with you entirely.
For most magic users in DC(except a few really talented ones),power means knowledge and experience.
Many powerful magic users like spectre and lucifer also has a wealth of knowledge about the magic,even thongh they donnot get chances to show them.
In fact,they are so powerful that editors cannot find a properly way to show their power,for editors can only describe their battle simply(refer to the spectre in coie)
you can see someone who has strong magic power also has many others capabilities,it may be a expression that they use their magic power flexibly and creatively
At last,timothy killed almost all beings and put an end to the creation.I think his tier should be higher than nabu/PS.
In addition,The spectre said he is an aspect of god in<Batman 1940> issue 541.
the LOGOZ is the spectre's direct channel to god.may be he can be put on a higher tier,too
@beatboks
Originally posted by beatboks
I dont see how Batman beats someone who if they have equal prep to him can know what he'll do in advance and have countered his moves before he makes them.
Because that assumes they are able to counter it. Prep time doesn't mean that they can interact with their opponent beforehand.
As an example, say, if Bats used his prep to get the Spear of Destiny and relearn his spells from Zatanna to block magic...then the fight starts, with Arion AND his artefacts are rendered depowered, what then?
Or, since Batman has hidden himself from the Spectre and Zauriel before, using stealth, that assumes Arion's artefacts can even see what Bats - the most paranoid of all - is up to. Two scenarios.
Or third, you talk about him being able to sense threats that hadn't entered Earth's orbit when he wasn't depowered. What if Bats wasn't even on Earth? Doing prep in the Phantom Zone, or on New Genesis etc?
Then there is the time Superman defeated him and stripped him of his artefacts.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Because that assumes they are able to counter it. Prep time doesn't mean that they can interact with their opponent beforehand.As an example, say, if Bats used his prep to get the Spear of Destiny and relearn his spells from Zatanna to block magic...then the fight starts, with Arion AND his artefacts are rendered depowered, what then?
Or, since Batman has hidden himself from the Spectre and Zauriel before, using stealth, that assumes Arion's artefacts can even see what Bats - the most paranoid of all - is up to. Two scenarios.
Or third, you talk about him being able to sense threats that hadn't entered Earth's orbit when he [b]wasn't depowered
. What if Bats wasn't even on Earth? Doing prep in the Phantom Zone, or on New Genesis etc?Then there is the time Superman defeated him and stripped him of his artefacts. [/B]
In Arion's pre crisis run he was depowered for almost 50% of the series. He was still.
1. A master hand to hand combatant who won against trained warriors
2. A master swordsman who beat several of the best in Atlantis and matched THE best ( who stated he was almost master level on his third lesson)
3. Was able to sense and react as I stated above, literally catching an arrow fired at his back because he sensed it.
4. Able to work minor spells just from knowledge.
Also you don't have to interact with someone in prep to be able to deal with their prep. In his prep he sees courtesy of a crystal ball (like he used in the Superman story I referenced) Bats gets the spear of Destiny. So he gets the ring of life. The talisman that the Presence gave Spectre so he could beat Zorr, Oom and Kalak. Not to mention that the spear doesn't do what you said Bats would do with it. The spear has allowed Hitler to control beings of power who entered his area of power. It has been used to hurt Spectre several times and bind him once. It has been used to Rebirth Cain innthe body of Vandal Savage, and a few other things but it isn't capable of anything like what your suggesting. Frankly Dr Occult's disk or the ring of life are more along that vein.