Abortion

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
He has a point--blacks were not considered fully human, just like you don't consider unborn babies to be fully human.

Great analogy, Ghost!

Great analogy? It's the worst analogy I have ever seen.

He has all the points of a bouncy ball.

"Blacks" were not considered fully human but factually they are. So whoever considered them not to be were just morons.

At conception and for a while after, it's a CELL. A cell isn't human. That's not me considering it not to be human, it's actually not a human.

-AC

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
When it comes to "controversial" issues, such as abortion and cloning--I prefer discussing them from a secular standpoint. Religion tends to cloud people's better judgement *cough*sithsaber408*cough*.

Then offer an argument that doesn't support his. If your religion is so different, then support it with open words....

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
He has a point--blacks were not considered fully human, just like you don't consider unborn babies to be fully human.

Race is not the point. Humanity is.

in fact, your argument bases itself on the secular nature of religion AND politics...

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I was explaining why a Christian conservative, having sex in marriage, would use a condom during sex, which while not equal to abortion (sperm has to ferilize an egg to form a human), is still technically against God's will.

Thus, we (speaking for the Christian conservative married POV) have caved to society's standards of living, and use condoms to prevent having multiple children before we are ready.

Your statement saying the same thing, except that societal pressures for the standard of living could necessetate an [B]abortion is completly different, and way off base.

Whob and Soleran were right.

Abortion is the ending of a formed human life, contraception is not.

And besides, in the original post, I stated that if the contraception fails, the Christian conservative couple would either keep the baby or put it up for adoption, not kill it.

You are complaining becuase you thought your statement and mine are equal, and they are not. [/B]

In other words, it is okay to go against the will of God so long as one is doing something with which you approve, i.e. using contraceptives, but it is not okay to go against the will of God if one is doing something with which you disapprove, i.e. abortion.

In other words, it is okay to waste the potential for human life so long as it is done through methods with which you approve, i.e. masturbation, contraceptives, and sterilization, but not through methods with which you disapprove, i.e. abortion.

In other words, it is okay to prevent the development of human life so long as it is done during a moment with which you approve, i.e. one second before fertilization, but not during a moment with which you disapprove, i.e. one second after fertilization.

That is not hypocritical of you at all.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Then offer an argument that doesn't support his. If your religion is so different, then support it with open words....

I don't support his religious views, I just happen to agree with his views on abortion.

Kumu'kea is quite different from Christianity--In fact, its a total 180.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
In other words, it is okay to go against the will of God so long as one is doing something with which you approve, i.e. using contraceptives, but it is not okay to go against the will of God if one is doing something with which you disapprove, i.e. abortion.

In other words, it is okay to waste the potential for human life so long as it is done through methods with which you approve, i.e. masturbation, contraceptives, and sterilization, but not through methods with which you disapprove, i.e. abortion.

In other words, it is okay to prevent the development of human life so long as it is done during a moment with which you approve, i.e. one second before fertilization, but not during a moment with which you disapprove, i.e. one second after fertilization.

That is not hypocritical of you at all.

I'd say using a rubber is just a tad more acceptable than throwing a newborn into a dumpster. Wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
"Blacks" were not considered fully human but factually they are. So whoever considered them not to be were just morons.

No, just plain racism. Just like you have some bias towards the unborn.

Originally posted by DiamondBullets
I'd say using a rubber is just a tad more acceptable than throwing a newborn into a dumpster. Wouldn't you agree?

And if this thread was about infanticide, or throwing newborns into dumpsters, your statement would be relevant.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost

--This debate happened before too, when abolitionists argued that black people were humans too, when others said they werent because of their skin color. Somehow this sounds mighty familiar.... like that unborn babies shouldnt have the same rights as born ones.

AAHAHAHAHA

You're comparing a full grown human being who was discriminated against because of his SKIN COLOR, to an unborn lump. An embryo that doesn't even socially exist as a part of life.

You're funny.

For the anti-abortionists out there who believe in God creating humans, what happens when a woman has a miscarriage? or 'natural abortion'

OMG God killed an unborn kid, HE'5 EV1LZ!!1one!

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
AAHAHAHAHA

You're comparing a full grown human being who was discriminated against because of his SKIN COLOR, to an unborn lump. An embryo that doesn't even socially exist as a part of life.

You're funny.

For the anti-abortionists out there who believe in God creating humans, what happens when a woman has a miscarriage? or 'natural abortion'

OMG God killed an unborn kid, HE'5 EV1LZ!!1one!

"You're comparing a full grown human being who was discriminated against because of his SKIN COLOR, to an unborn lump. An embryo that doesn't even socially exist as a part of life."

--First of all, it WAS only an analogy, and obviously people who are already born are a bit more developed than a bunch of cells, but they are still humans. And even if you consider that it doesnt exist yet as "a part of society" it still was meant too, and will never get that chance at all because you are (i will say ending instead of KILLING) its chance at life.

"For the anti-abortionists out there who believe in God creating humans, what happens when a woman has a miscarriage? or 'natural abortion' OMG God killed an unborn kid, HE'5 EV1LZ!!"

---What also happens when anyone dies naturally? If there is a "natural abortion" as you say, then it was meant to happen and when we defy nature by making our own abortions it IS bad. You shouldnt blame God when someone dies, but when you kill someone (Oh, Im sorry, I'll say 'prevent someone's life'😉 it is a bit different... just a bit... 😉

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
but they are still humans

Yeah, and cells aren't. Easy.

"For the anti-abortionists out there who believe in God creating humans, what happens when a woman has a miscarriage? or 'natural abortion' OMG God killed an unborn kid, HE'5 EV1LZ!!"

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
but when you kill someone (Oh, Im sorry, I'll say 'prevent someone's life'😉

There's a difference between killing a person and preventing a person from being made.

You can't kill what doesn't exist.

-AC

Preventing someone's life after conception is just as bad as killing.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Preventing someone's life after conception is just as bad as killing.

You're not preventing SOMEONE'S life. There is no someone at that point.

This is where you get confused.

-AC

Read between the lines. They WILL be someone- and then someone abortions them and they have no chance.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Read between the lines. They WILL be someone- and then someone abortions them and they have no chance.

Read between the lines? How about this: YOU read the ACTUAL lines.

Don't skip the actual lines to read between them.

At time of abortion, you are preventing it becoming someone. There is no someone at that point. So it's not killing someone, it's not hurting someone. There is no someone.

-AC

"At time of abortion, you are preventing it becoming someone."

That is my point and it goes no futher into whether it is alive at the moment or is dead or if it is someone yet...

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
"At time of abortion, you are preventing it becoming someone."

That is my point and it goes no futher into whether it is alive at the moment or is dead or if it is someone yet...

It's not someone yet, so that can be dropped. Everyone can stop saying that it's killing someone. Good.

Second, exactly. That's the point of abortions. You don't have to pay attention to abortions, do you? No. You can choose to stay far away and never deal with them, they don't affect you. Yet you choose to make everyone else's lives your business.

Sorry buddy, but you don't have that right. Do WHATEVER you want with your life as long as it doesn't interfere with others. YOURS. Not others.

-AC

I'll do what I see fit...

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
I'll do what I see fit...

Exactly.

As long as that doesn't interfere with other people, there shouldn't be a problem.

Oh wait...you believe you have the right to interfere don't you? I remember now, that must be why I threw any shred of credibility you had, right out the window.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, proven. It's a zygote at conception. Zygote = Cell, Cell = Not human. Clear? Sweeeeet.

Prove what makes someone human? I can prove what makes someone NOT human. Being a cell makes someone not human. IE: Zygotes exist at conception and for a while after. Meaning human life does not exist at conception.

-AC

So what if its a cell.

Its a HUMAN cell.

Not an arachnoid cell, not a dog cell,..... a human cell.

It is alive (by your own admission), it is formed, and it is human.

Just because the human body hasn't formed yet means nothing.

All the necessary energy and matter are in place for a human being to develop.

Whob's point stands.