Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Indeed, and I think you'll find that attitude in England as well - or rather many countries in the West too.Its that sheer arrogance west holds of ''how it should be is how we do it''
We are a 'liberal' society - but I think the biggest irony is, how our laws treat certain things....
Originally posted by botankus
Whoever gets the 6,000th post gets a free abortion!!
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Where's my difference? In the previous post where I said people with the abilities to do all those things, be it artificial or not. A cell doesn't have any of those, nor is it even possible for it to have any of those.Fake heart, fake lung, it doesn't matter. It's still a human body with the ability to adapt to and use those tools. A cell doesn't. Bam.
Bam nothing. Just because you're ignoring the traits human beings have at a cellular level doen't mean they don't exist. MHC, compatible proteins, DNA it's not rocket science. (Okay, so it's actually biochemistry 😛
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, it's just not a human. I've proven it and you're ignoring it. I'm not going to sit here trying to make you admit it because you've obviously chosen not to and chosen the very silly path of devil's advocate.
Of course I'm ignoring it. Just because you've deluded yourself doesn't mean I want to go along. Provide some actual evidence, I'm open minded. (I'm a biochemist, so make it good)
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nothing. Which is exactly why I'm of the belief that it's entirely up to the female what she does with it.
So she can kill it after it's born too???? 🤨
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
What does a foetus do? Does it, or does it not, live as a result of a host and live as a result of being sustained by that host?
You ever hear of symbiosis? mutualism? Parasites aren't the only thing that are totally dependent on a host. It'd be a stretch to say that a fetus is harmful to its mother in most cases.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not a foetus until the end of the eighth week. It's a zygote before this.
There's those arbitrary definitions. What's the difference between the last day of the eight week and the first day of the ninth? Not a whole helluva lot.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Therefore, the is no human life at conception. Come on, it's not rocket science.
No, not rocket science, the way you're playing it is called semantics.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not that you don't see the point, it's that you haven't got one and continue trying to slyly worm your way into this debate with wanky pretention and pointless philosophy.
Says the man who's been using exclusively wordplay and philosophy. Try some science, some people even think it's fun.
-edit-
This thread is hilarious!! you've got all these big headed pro-abortionists actually thinking they've won! What a laugh!!!
hysterical
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This thread never seas to amaze me with the kind of things people come out with.To some people, treating women as a mare fetus incubator with only responsibility to keeping the baby alive is just plain ridiculous.
Particularly for those in the United States, Supreme Court over one hundred years ago, declared the following -
No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law, then the right of every individual to the possession and control of its own person, free from all restraint and interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. As well said by judge Cooley: ''The right to one's person may be said to be right of complete immunity: to be left alone''
Source: Union Pacific Railway v Bostford, 141 U.S 250, 251 (1891)
^^ in case anyone wants to check.
So why the heck doesn't this apply to a pregnant woman?
It is woman's body - her own, and she has the right to decide what she would like to do with it.
Interferance from the people on the outside is the invasion of her own body.
Why doesn't it apply to the baby? yeah, yeah, it can't live outside the womb. Leave a newborn baby alone for a few days and see how long it lives. By your logic what a doctor should say when a woman comes in for an abortion is: "I can cut you open if you want, but I can't touch the baby" 😛
Originally posted by docb77
Bam nothing. Just because you're ignoring the traits human beings have at a cellular level doen't mean they don't exist. MHC, compatible proteins, DNA it's not rocket science. (Okay, so it's actually biochemistry 😛
They're not human beings at a cellular level, though. They're cells...at a cellular level. Hence the "cell" at the beginning. You know, like cells and such. Being cell-ular.
Did you think it meant the movie; CELLular? Or the telephone device; A CELLphone? No, it means cells, buddy. The organism: Cell. The cell that's on it's way to becoming a human. Becoming, not actually is one. You know? The organism that even the pro-lifers have been saying is; "The parts necessary to become/create a human".
Not too good at this are you?
Originally posted by docb77
Of course I'm ignoring it. Just because you've deluded yourself doesn't mean I want to go along. Provide some actual evidence, I'm open minded. (I'm a biochemist, so make it good)
You saying "I'm a biochemist" after the sheer rampant hypocricy and stupidity- not to mention ignorance- of your debates, is like Bush saying "You can't tell me about politics, I'm a politician."
You believe cells are human beings. It says a lot for your knowledge doesn't it?
I've provided evidence. You f*cked up and misread it, tried to dodge and I proved you wrong again. Now, with the pretention of ten Pink Floyds, you're keeping up this entirely laughable "Cells are humans" debate. Which isn't really a debate at all.
Originally posted by docb77
So she can kill it after it's born too???? 🤨
If she wants. Can't say I'd be applauding her, but it's her foetus.
Originally posted by docb77
You ever hear of symbiosis? mutualism? Parasites aren't the only thing that are totally dependent on a host. It'd be a stretch to say that a fetus is harmful to its mother in most cases.
Hence why I said it has the qualities OF.
Originally posted by docb77
There's those arbitrary definitions. What's the difference between the last day of the eight week and the first day of the ninth? Not a whole helluva lot.
But enough, and therein lies your problem.
Originally posted by docb77
No, not rocket science, the way you're playing it is called semantics.
It's not. It's called you-don't-like-what-I'm-bringing-so-you're-dodging-like-neo-tics.
Originally posted by docb77
Says the man who's been using exclusively wordplay and philosophy. Try some science, some people even think it's fun.
Try some reading, some people even think it's useful.
"Try some science", says the guy who believes cells are as human as a man with some organs not working properly.
"Try some science", says the guy who believes cells are human, period.
Or do you? I swear you've said before that you do not, thereby proving my argument correct. That argument being that there is no human life or human beings at conception.
I've got the backup of cells factually not being humans. Where's your argument? Oh yeah, up there with all the hypocritical philosophy you've used.
Originally posted by docb77
This thread is hilarious!! you've got all these big headed pro-abortionists actually thinking they've won! What a laugh!!!
A) I've not seen a single pro-abortionist in this thread. I'm not a pro-abortionist, but I'll bet you'd call me one on account of your ignorance.
B) The irony in that "big-headed" claim was pathetic.
C) Chill out. I understand you're pissed that you've come in here as if you're Macho Man Randy Savage with all the wanky pretention of a thousand Pink Floyds, been dealt with and also laughed at because you're just another dime/dozen pro-choice/christian debator, but that's no need to go for the Academy Award.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's ironic how much Madonna now looks like a foetus as she's got older.-AC
I'm not trying to distract the issue. (Though, 300 pages in, it should happen.) I'm just saying that was funny...to...me. What, you think I arrived at my Elton John obsession without ever having listened to anyone else? Come on, I play the piano, I know it's more than that.
and Madonna looks more and more like a fetus because she keeps having the front of her head stappled to the back of it. Fags aren't natural, but plastic surgury is.
Sometimes I find it strange that people feel it is necessary to refer to science in regard to a topic that is essentially a matter of personal choice. Sure, people form choices by an evaluation of the data at hand, but in this case the choice is necessitated by the simple fact that without it a person's freedom is restricted.