Abortion

Originally posted by Schecter
im telling you that its not a "fact of life" that people control other people. its a very common disposition, but not an inevitability. do you only think in extremes? that people are either all controlled or all uncontrolled? does the concept of a gray area frighten, confuse, and enfuriate you?

Despite the fact I've been saying I try to live in a middle ground this entire thread. What middle ground is there really for control in general? (Note: I wasn't refering to amount of control)

I wasn't refering to absolute control in the slightest, just some degree of control.

Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
People wouldn't need to control other people if humans didn't take advantage of every oppurtunity at indulgance that they had...

If there was absolutely no control, there would be no:

Society
Groups
Oganization

People shouldn't fear control, just work hard not be controlled.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Despite the fact I've been saying I try to live in a middle ground this entire thread. What middle ground is there really for control in general? (Note: I wasn't refering to amount of control)

There is certainly a middle ground. As long as it doesn't affect anyone else, it's none of your business, so don't get involved. Let people have freedom to do what they want, without sticking your moral oar in.

your reply to my suggestion that people controlling people is not a universally inevitable "fact of life"

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
So, your telling me that everyone is free from everyone?

i think the implication is clear. either everyone is controlled by others or nobody is.
whatever, i know you wont admit your mistake, so lets just have your spike-win last word and we'll move along back to topic.

Ok, but there would be no need if people would just learn to control themselves! Government is lenient, which is why people violate their rights! Take away Government for one day and see how the entire solar system spins out of orbit and the planets play intergalactic pinball...

Originally posted by Schecter
your reply to my suggestion that people controlling people is not a universally inevitable "fact of life"

i think the implication is clear. either everyone is controlled others or nobody is.
whatever, i know you wont admit your mistake, so lets just have your spike-win post and we'll move along back to topic.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
There is certainly a middle ground. As long as it doesn't affect anyone else, it's none of your business, so don't get involved. Let people have freedom to do what they want, without sticking your moral oar in.

Originally posted by Schecter
im telling you that its not a "fact of life" that people control other people. its a very common disposition, but not an inevitability. do you only think in extremes? that people are either all controlled or all uncontrolled? does the concept of a gray area frighten, confuse, and enfuriate you?

Well in a somewhat off example, Lindsey Lohan had crack in the Mercedes she crashed before going into rehab. Not a sprinkle of crack, but a nice amount. Point being she got arrested but she was out that same night and is now in rehab.

If that were a normal citizen, without a nice amount of money, they just stay in prison. You willing to say otherwise?

*I'm not calling this "control" but more like a constraint that is not there for all

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Despite the fact I've been saying I try to live in a middle ground this entire thread. What middle ground is there really for control in general? (Note: I wasn't refering to amount of control)

I wasn't refering to absolute control in the slightest, just some degree of control.

Originally posted by chithappens
Well in a somewhat off example, Lindsey Lohan had crack in the Mercedes she crashed before going into rehab. Not a sprinkle of crack, but a nice amount. Point being she got arrested but she was out that same night and is now in rehab.

If that were a normal citizen, without a nice amount of money, they just stay in prison. You willing to say otherwise?

*I'm not calling this "control" but more like a constraint that is not there for all

well thats kind of my point, which btw wasnt absolute. there are some who live under no control at all while some live like slaves. then there is the gray area. lindsey lohan gets away with having crack in her car, but what if she went on a killing spree? some degree of control exists. some world leader kill thousands/tens of/hundreds of/millions, unchecked as they dictate and set their own rules, checked and overlooked by nobody.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Why, because people say so? Sorry, but that isn't how things work in life.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you know very little about life.

Originally posted by StyleTime
That's just it. Prochoice IS the middle ground.

I never said it wasn't because I don't believe every pro-choicer has the same insentive. I was talking to a few people. . .

Originally posted by Ashestoashesjc
Ok, but there would be no need if people would just learn to control themselves! Government is lenient, which is why people violate their rights! Take away Government for one day and see how the entire solar system spins out of orbit and the planets play intergalactic pinball...

Going Hobbes? I agree but I think we all agree on that. That's a moot point.

"The fact of life" is what we are trying to address

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I have a sneaking suspicion that you know very little about life.

-I've worked a 9-5
-Raised Kids
-been in debt

And, actually know what it means to be a working man. So, don't tell me about life.

Originally posted by Schecter
well thats kind of my point, which btw wasnt absolute. there are some who live under no control at all while some live like slaves. then there is the gray area. lindsey lohan gets away with having crack in her car, but what if she went on a killing spree? some degree of control exists. some world leader kill thousands/tens of/hundreds of/millions, unchecked as they dictate and set their own rules, checked and overlooked by nobody.

I thought that was what you meant but had to be sure.

Originally posted by Schecter
well thats kind of my point, which btw wasnt absolute. there are some who live under no control at all while some live like slaves. then there is the gray area. lindsey lohan gets away with having crack in her car, but what if she went on a killing spree? some degree of control exists. some world leader kill thousands/tens of/hundreds of/millions, unchecked as they dictate and set their own rules, checked and overlooked by nobody.

Sigh everyone was agreeing. That is just funny

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I never said a fetus is human, and Science does not dictate morals. There on completely different grounds.

And morals do not dictate science. You cannot decide that an organism is something it isn't based on morals, when science, the more credible of the two in the area of...well...science, contradicts you.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Don't care, since science doesn't dictate morals.

What do you mean you don't care? You cannot expect to be taken seriously when your SUBJECTIVE morals are based on OBJECTIVE criteria, which you are ignoring.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Okay,So, then even if they are different scientifically, why should they be treated differently? Why should humans be treated differently from animals, and I never said a fetus is a human.

You think it should be legally classed as murder to kill a horsefly, then?

They shouldn't have the same rights because they aren't the same thing. Human foetuses do not have human being rights because they...? Answer: are not human beings. What's so hard to understand? There are reasons human beings have human rights, and it's because we have things worth protecting that foetuses and cells factually do not have.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Therefore it's a moral term since Laws are morals after all. There is no difference what so ever between morals and laws.

There is not such thing as murder if it's not murder by law, that's a fact. Call it immoral killing, call it frivolous killing, call it whatever you want except something it factually isn't; like murder.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
No, I want it outlawed becuase it is emoral iin my eye's. I've said that already.

You've said many things. Like how you don't care about protecting life; just your own morals, then you said it is about protecting life, then it was about protecting your rights, then it was about giving rights to foetuses that they do not deserve.

Why is it immoral to you? Because it's killing a potential something?

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
I never claimed that a Human is the same as a fetus, I believe they should have the same rights.

Why?

Before you said "Because they're potential human beings!", that doesn't count, because they're still not actual, definite human beings. If you want to establish rights for a foetus, new rights, that would be a better argument than saying they, who are not human beings, should have the same rights as human beings.

Might as well say using ant spray is murder.

-AC

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
This coming form, everyone should be free to do what they want?

-I've worked a 9-5
-Raised Kids
-been in debt

And, actually know what it means to be a working man. So, don't tell me about life.

I don't care what you've done, it's also coming from the same person who doesn't know the meaning of democracy. Just because you've had a McJob and owed people money, doesn't mean you know more about life than me.

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I don't care what you've done, it's also coming from the same person who doesn't know the meaning of democracy.

Yeah, that person would be you. Your still sore because I took you to school on that topic. 😆

Originally posted by chillmeistergen

Just because you've had a McJob and owed people money, doesn't mean you know more about life than me.

Right, someone who whines thinking that he will be free to do what he wants in life sure knows alot about it. 😆

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Yeah, that person would be you. Your still sore because I took you to school on that topic. 😆

No, you didn't.

Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar

Right, someone who whines thinking that he will be free to do what he wants in life sure knows alot about it. 😆

You have no idea what you're on about, don't pretend you do.