Abortion

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so its alive because YOU say its alive?!?!?!?!!? ridiculous circular reasoning gives me a headache. the comparison is UTTERLY on the mark. POTENTIALLY sperm and eggs are as significant as zygotes, and even the position you have sex in and the movement you have later or WHEN you decide to have sex can be as significant {As far as POTENTIAL/possibility goes}. so again, if you wanna make a case based on POTENTIAL, then even the fact that you decided to have sex with one woman and not another can be used as reason to blame you{after all, looking from the perspective of the daughter you wud have had with said woman in the future, you are infact a murderer}.

IF however, you wanna base your argument on sumthing LESS ridiculous, for instance, an existing CONCIOUSNESS in BIOLOGY, than the best you can argue against abortion is that its immoral when the BRAIN is too developed. and reflex arcs form BEFORE the higher brain, and it isnt slippery at ALL when discussing stem cell research or abortion in the first three-4 months.

stop bringing up your unfounded oppinions as FACTS.

Leonheartmm, dear boy. A fetus is alive because it simply is living, it isn't dead, now is it? Your comparision was and is still shit, sperm and an egg is far different than a zygote, as the process of life hasn't begun in the former two, nor would it ever with just either.

Not sure what you were trying to say with the rest of your rant, ie 'my position I have sex in' and the other ramblings, sorry.

Originally posted by Robtard
Leonheartmm, dear boy. A fetus is alive because it simply is living, it isn't dead, now is it?

Not sure what you were trying to say with the rest of your rant, ie 'my position I have sex in' and the other ramblings, sorry.

exhibit A :- " a fetus is ALIVE because it is simply LIVING".

presented by robtard as proof for robtard's assertion.

really, old man, your becoming a textbook example of circular reasoning.

please just admit it passed over your head instead of saying your not sure of what it meant.

and yes, its alive in the same way that a sperm is alive. now, does that equate a conciosness????????

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Not really.

Unfortunately, you did not explicitly state this, so you could easily say I misinterpreted you. Maybe I did. I'm not sure why you'd mention that otherwise though.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Your pretext suggests that disagreement on the issue of abortion might cause some catastrophe on a horrendously grand scale. It's a little bit unreasonable to say the aforementioned mentality in relation to abortion will cause something like that.

Unfortunately, you did not explicitly state this, so you could easily say I misinterpreted you. Maybe I did. I'm not sure why you'd mention that otherwise though.

I agree. If extremism continues, then something could happen.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
exhibit A :- " a fetus is ALIVE because it is simply LIVING".

presented by robtard as proof for robtard's assertion.

really, old man, your becoming a textbook example of circular reasoning.

please just admit it passed over your head instead of saying your not sure of what it meant.

and yes, its alive in the same way that a sperm is alive. now, does that equate a conciosness????????

Oh my, yes, 'alive' would equate to 'living', ie not dead. Really, it's not a hard concept to grasp.

No, you rambled and have very poor grammar, I'm sure to you it meant something.

I like it when you call me "old man", please refer to me this way from now on.

Now you're changing the topic to suit your own idiocy. Consciousness was never the issue, you compared masturbation (death of sperm) to the killing of a zygote, I showed you where your reasoning was ridiculous. It was, just accept it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Oh my, yes, 'alive' would equate to 'living', ie not dead. Really, it's not a hard concept to grasp.

No, you rambled and have very poor grammar, I'm sure to you it meant something.

Now you're changing the topic to suit your own idiocy. Consciousness was never the issue, you compared masturbation (death of sperm) to the killing of a zygote, I showed you where your reasoning was ridiculous. It was, just accept it.

however, what IS a hard concept to grasp is why your presenting the relationship between the adjective and verb of the noun "life" as evidence for the presence of the PHENOMENON of life in an embryo without a brain, wudnt you agree?

please dont blame your ineptitude to understand on my grammer.

conciousness IS the only issue worth talking about in abortion. ORGANISMS in the bilogical sense dont warrant "individual" rights, since only CONCIOUSNESS qulifies as an INDIVIDUAL. you didnt show SQUAT, heck you didnt even TRY to show or make any critique, you only claimed it was wrong and then veered off to your terribly planned linguistic spin to try and FORCE your argument to make sense. it didnt work. now, either SHOW me a biological or neurological difference between a sperm and zygote or dont post.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
however, what IS a hard concept to grasp is why your presenting the relationship between the adjective and verb of the noun "life" as evidence for the presence of the PHENOMENON of life in an embryo without a brain, wudnt you agree?

please dont blame your ineptitude to understand on my grammer.

conciousness IS the only issue worth talking about in abortion. ORGANISMS in the bilogical sense dont warrant "individual" rights, since only CONCIOUSNESS qulifies as an INDIVIDUAL. you didnt show SQUAT, heck you didnt even TRY to show or make any critique, you only claimed it was wrong and then veered off to your terribly planned linguistic spin to try and FORCE your argument to make sense. it didnt work. now, either SHOW me a biological or neurological difference between a sperm and zygote or dont post.

I said 'a fetus is alive', it's that simple, it isn't dead. You decided to take it as "it's a conscious human being who can reason and think", that's your own fault.

Another example of you blame shifting. You're grammar is beyond horrible, I'm sure you said something, I can make it out exactly what it is. Fix it, I'll then respond to whatever point you were trying to make.

Hahahaha, you're an idiot, I have said several times that I am not against abortion, ergo, I'm not trying to prove "it's wrong".

Once again, and this is what started your ranting. A sperm by itself will not become a human being, a zygote (sperm&egg) will. ie human life has factually begun. You comparing the killing of a zygote to masturbation on the grounds that they're the same is asinine, as you are.

Originally posted by Robtard
I said 'a fetus is alive', it's that simple, it isn't dead. You decided to take it as "it's a conscious human being who can reason and think", that's your own fault.

Another example of you blame shifting. You're grammar is beyond horrible, I'm sure you said something, I can make it out exactly what it is. Fix it, I'll then respond to whatever point you were trying to make.

Hahahaha, you're an idiot, I have said several times that I am not against abortion, ergo, I'm not trying to prove "it's wrong".

Once again, and this is what started your ranting. A sperm by itself will not become a human being, a zygote (sperm&egg) will. ie human life has factually begun. You comparing the killing of a zygote to masturbation on the grounds that they're the same is asinine, as you are.

lie. you tried to PROVE that a fetus was alive by saying that is was LIVING. which isnt proof at all since the second statement of proof itself has to be proven. the individual cells of the fetus may be living thing, but you still havent given me any proof that the "collective" {i.e. the FETUS} is ALIVE. please dont try to word play. its humiliating

again, dont blame me for your lack of comprehensive skills.

you said that abortionists were SUGAR COATING what they were doing. now, its not my problem that you arent against what you yourself consider MURDER. all i was doing was denying your initial claim that all abortion was infact murdering life. also. dont call people idiots when you are lucky your own i.q barely scratches the point where your not considered legally retarded.

huh, really. i thought it had to be carried and given nutrition and protected before HUMAN life cud begin. and again, what do you mean by LIFE. thats what happens when you put contingencies based on HOPE, a sperm CAN lead to a human, a zygote CAN lead to a human, a human choice CAN lead to the birth of a human. however, none of them actually ARE a human individual. the only thing that can be CONSIDERED to be LIFE is a CONSIOUSNESS, and THAT is what w need to be concerned about in abortion, NOT zygotes.

Calling me a liar, now.

Page 276, I said: "A fetus is alive and it will become a human being, if left undisturbed (miscarriages withstanding)." This was in regards to your likening masturbation to abortions, which is still retarded.

Once again, YOU implied that I was saying a fetus has a conscious, not I. Though in truth, it probably has something like a conscious towards the end of that stage.

I never said 'abortions equal murder', another thing you ****ed up on.

You act like an imbecile many a time; I'm not the only one to point this out.

So, or great mentalist, when does a human gain consciousness, thereby making it "life" (by your definition).

Originally posted by Robtard
Calling me a liar, now.

Page 276, I said: "A fetus is alive and it will become a human being, if left undisturbed (miscarriages withstanding)." This was in regards to your likening masturbation to abortions, which is still retarded.

Once again, YOU implied that I was saying a fetus has a conscious, not I. Though in truth, it probably has something like a conscious towards the end of that stage.

I never said 'abortions equal murder', another thing you ****ed up on.

You act like an imbecile many a time; I'm not the only one to point this out.

So, or great mentalist, when does a human gain consciousness, thereby making it "life" (by your definition).

yes i am. but u always start it so i dont feel bad.

as ejaculated sperm will become a human, if let to meet with eggs and given appropriate nutrition and protection. how does this change the argument ive made?

no, YOU implied it when you said that abortionists were SUGAR coating it in relation to the previous arguments made claiming that zygotes=human life. dont try and weasel your way out of it. i have no business arguing with you for no reason.

but you did , with the sugar coating accusation.

you shud get yourself checked for autism old man.

probably not before 2.5 months. 😄

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes i am. but u always start it so i dont feel bad.

as ejaculated sperm will become a human, if let to meet with eggs and given appropriate nutrition and protection. how does this change the argument ive made?

A sperm, by itself in the womb, cannot become a life.

An egg, by itself in the womb, cannot become a life.

A zygote can.

Pretty simple science, isn't it?

Originally posted by leonheartmm
no, YOU implied it when you said that abortionists were SUGAR coating it in relation to the previous arguments made claiming that zygotes=human life. dont try and weasel your way out of it. i have no business arguing with you for no reason.

but you did , with the sugar coating accusation.

you shud get yourself checked for autism old man.

probably not before 2.5 months. 😄

Why the need for the name calling? Is he name calling as well?

And I disagree. Awareness of self is consciousness, right? Then that doesn't occur until several months after birth.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
yes i am. but u always start it so i dont feel bad.

as ejaculated sperm will become a human, if let to meet with eggs and given appropriate nutrition and protection. how does this change the argument ive made?

no, YOU implied it when you said that abortionists were SUGAR coating it in relation to the previous arguments made claiming that zygotes=human life. dont try and weasel your way out of it. i have no business arguing with you for no reason.

but you did , with the sugar coating accusation.

you shud get yourself checked for autism old man.

probably not before 2.5 months. 😄

Call me a liar all you like, but me posting my comment as proof that I didn't lie, pretty much makes you look like an *******, nothing new.

Repeat: Because a zygote is the combination of the two and life has already begun, sperm on your keyboard will never become a person. Comparing the two is ridiculous. Which of course, you will continue.

I said an abortion is the snuffing out of a life that would be, not is a. I never said or implied murder, you moron.

Again, someone with your grammar and reasoning ability shouldn't imply others are impaired, just silly.

2.5 months during pregnancy or post birth? Care to anwer the question honestly?

a zygote in a WOMB, if it has a passable genetic code, and is given proper nutrition and without the presence of averse atmosphere can. THAT is my point, there is no DIFFERENCE bettween seemingly biological and non biological contingencies/conditions. the CHOICE of two people to have sex at a certain time is FACTUALLY AS IMPORTANT as the absence of physical abortion in the POTENTIAL for a human life to be born in the future. thats the PROBLEM with POTENTIAL and calling all abortion MURDER, you cant judge murder on POTENTIAL. you can only judge it based on killing sumthing which can be DEFINED as a human life, and to me, that is a CONCIOUSNESS.

dadudeman, have you not been READING rob's posts, he not only started it out of nowhere, but qualified on to name calling without provocation{as he has in the past} and then continues to beat strawmen based on false information and logic. and when he realised, he was being silly, since i wasnt even a smoker anymore, he still continued to try and get the last insulting word for no reason.

i disagree. i think it possible CAN occur when the ambryo is developed beyond a certain stage and definately DOES occur when a baby is born and opens its eyes. sure it doesnt have any intellectual sophistication, but the feeling of EXISTANCE, is surely there, inherently.

Originally posted by Robtard
Call me a liar all you like, but me posting my comment as proof that I didn't lie, pretty much makes you look like an *******, nothing new.

Repeat: Because a zygote is the combination of the two and life has already begun, sperm on your keyboard will never become a person. Comparing the two is ridiculous. Which of course, you will continue.

I said an abortion is the snuffing out of a life that would be, not is a. I never said or implied murder, you moron.

Again, someone with your grammar and reasoning ability shouldn't imply others are impaired, just silly.

2.5 months during pregnancy or post birth? Care to anwer the question honestly?

2.5 month during pregnancy. and i refuse to debate with you anymore. ive said what i wanted to say, and you bring nothing more to the table, to continue would be to humour a child.

LoL, see what I'm dealing with?

Look who insulted first and continies to insult.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
2.5 month during pregnancy. and i refuse to debate with you anymore. ive said what i wanted to say, and you bring nothing more to the table, to continue would be to humour a child.

10 weeks, interesting. That would be at the exact point in time when an embryo becomes a fetus. Do tell me how you came to this conclusion that a fetus is by your definition "alive" and conscious?

BTW, 10 weeks is still legal for an abortion in many countries.

The ego stroking is awesome, do continue it.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
a zygote in a WOMB, if it has a passable genetic code, and is given proper nutrition and without the presence of averse atmosphere can. THAT is my point, there is no DIFFERENCE bettween seemingly biological and non biological contingencies/conditions. the CHOICE of two people to have sex at a certain time is FACTUALLY AS IMPORTANT as the absence of physical abortion in the POTENTIAL for a human life to be born in the future. thats the PROBLEM with POTENTIAL and calling all abortion MURDER, you cant judge murder on POTENTIAL. you can only judge it based on killing sumthing which can be DEFINED as a human life, and to me, that is a CONCIOUSNESS.

[QUOTE=11739000]Originally posted by leonheartmm
[B]dadudeman, have you not been READING rob's posts, he not only started it out of nowhere, but qualified on to name calling without provocation{as he has in the past} and then continues to beat strawmen based on false information and logic. and when he realised, he was being silly, since i wasnt even a smoker anymore, he still continued to try and get the last insulting word for no reason.

Unfortunately for you, there is a problem in your logic from a scientific perspective.

The complete nucleotide sequence that can be "observed" in that clump of cells is actually what would define it as a complete human. (We don't have to call it a human being, as other's have pointed it out.) Until a complete set of DNA can be retrieved from that "new life" mass, it is just as worthless as any single sperm or egg.

What this could mean is a future restructuring of abortion laws in the future. As DNA becomes more important, we could see abortion almost completely eliminated.

Robtard is trying to illustrate to you that a sperm is not on par with a zygote in terms of a human life. Nor is an egg. From a scientific perspective, he is absolutely correct. Even contemporary religious freaks would agree with Robtard, for the most part. (Some idiots still interpret the "seed" part to be sacred...idiots.)

In other words, Robard's right and you're logic is flawed when it comes to the zygote versus egg and sperm.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i disagree. i think it possible CAN occur when the ambryo is developed beyond a certain stage and definately DOES occur when a baby is born and opens its eyes. sure it doesnt have any intellectual sophistication, but the feeling of EXISTANCE, is surely there, inherently.

You can disagree if you like but would you be correct in disagreeing? I think not. There were several psychological studies done to measure "self-awareness". I think the age was found to be on average of 9 months. inimalist would know more than I would, so let's ask him for some sources. Why is that important? Because it can provide a scientific justification for abortion even at 5 months out of the womb. HAHAHAHAHA! 😈 😈 😈 😈

Originally posted by Robtard
10 weeks, interesting. That would be at the exact point in time when an embryo becomes a fetus. Do tell me how you came to this conclusion that a fetus is by your definition "alive" and conscious?

BTW, 10 weeks is still legal for an abortion in many countries.

The ego stroking is awesome, do continue it.

i didnt say it was, i said its POSSIBLY alive after that. all i know is that without the base complexity of the higher brain, self awareness can not form, it requires ATLEAST THAT MUCH to even have a chance at forming. i do not claim to know any specifics beyond that.

One thing is for sure - you cannot be pro-life AND anti-zombie.

Originally posted by Robtard
Are you really anti-abortion or just messing around?

And yes, anal should be touted more, especially by the anti-abortion crowd, as should gay-sex, at least until marriage.

Messing around.