Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Sixth rounds showns that Cap is using his shield, so I think sixth round is allowed to use gear/weapon.Bucly has his bionic arm, but it can be downgraded to the normal arm mode. Such as it was when he was incarcerated in GULAG. And Bucky still defeated Ursa Major, who is stronger and more durable than Bucky (Bucky was exhhausted and weakened, also).
Technically, arm had to be replaced while in Gulag. Not adjusted.
Hmmm. At least that's how I recall it, but... I can't find the page now that elaborated on it 😂 Help me out here. I remember Stark was involved?
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Anyway, that was then and now is now.
He's gotten the Infinity Formula treatment since then. So he cannot be considered a bona fide normal human anymore.
Of course, Steve is hardly a normal one himself, having SSS running through his veins.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Technically, arm had to be replaced while in Gulag. Not adjusted.Hmmm. At least that's how I recall it, but... I can't find the page now that elaborated on it 😂 Help me out here. I remember Stark was involved?
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Anyway, that was then and now is now.He's gotten the Infinity Formula treatment since then. So he cannot be considered a bona fide normal human anymore.
Of course, Steve is hardly a normal one himself, having SSS running through his veins.
By street-level I consider enhanced and meta-streets too, like Black Widow or Bucky. They counts in that "running the gauntlet" too.
Stark? I don't remember where he could be. Bucky fought Ursa mano-a-mano. His arm was replaced? Maybe. But even his bionic arm has several modes, including normal arm mode.
Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
By street-level I consider enhanced and meta-streets too, like Black Widow or Bucky. They counts in that "running the gauntlet" too.
Okay, then 👆
The problem is with the definition of street tier; it's vague. Even Spider-Man can count as a street level superhero.
Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Stark? I don't remember where he could be. Bucky fought Ursa mano-a-mano. His arm was replaced? Maybe. But even his bionic arm has several modes, including normal arm mode.
Tony doesn't appear in the story, but I remember Stark being mentioned on panel, him being the one responsible for replacing (or modifying) Bucky's arm off-panel, so he could still wear it as a prosthetic in prison. Could be wrong, but that's how I remembered it.
I have skimmed through that Gulag story arc yesterday, but I couldn't find the mention of it again 😂 Weird.
Street tier characters are badass enough that we don’t need to push them to tiers that they don’t belong in. They’re dangerous enough most of the time while just using the resources that they have on hand. Batman like Daredevil, Wildcat, Shiva, Iron Fist, Punisher and many others are not physically rated as meta-humans because they have no powers, well except for Iron Fist, but he isn’t superhuman in terms of lifting feats.
Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Such as Batman taking hits from bloodlusted Superman (without super-armour and etc) and doesn't getting smashed into a tomato paste.
You don’t understand the laws of acceleration/deceleration conservation. What this means in layman’s terms is that if you are protected from initial impacts or force/s that it does not protect you from accelerating from the place that you once stood in. Tony’s armor would actually be his doom. Imagine falling from a height of 2000ft within Earth’s atmosphere, while being inside of an impenetrable, or indestructible box. During free fall you will reach terminal velocity which happens at 1500ft. At the end of your fall the box that you are in does not suffer any damage, but as it hits the ground you are flung to the bottom of the box, which then turns you into jelly.
This happens every time that Tony is hit by forces that may have even greater impacts upon the suit than what was described during his free fall. The idea that he survives hits from the Hulk while inside the suit is as great or greater than Batman being face planted by Wonder Woman into concrete. Does this mean that we say that Tony has the durability of his armor? Technically the answer should be yes.
Looking back to the 1970’s before he used force fields you will see that he survived similar impacts and had minimal trouble rising to his feet. In real life that is humanly impossible.
If we want to claim that Batman has superhuman durability, or to be more precise Herald level durability, then we would also have to make the very same claim for Tony Stark without armor, because as stated, he would have to be as durable as his armor is in order to survive being hit by characters that possess Herald level strength. Not only him, but the Punisher, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Nightwing, Robin, Bucky, etc.
They are placed in the Street tier because they lack the strength, power (exotic or other) to be placed any higher than this. It has been repeatedly drilled into our minds that Batman does not actually have any powers. He is simply as powerful as comic book science affords a human with that have no powers can be. The suspension of disbelief is the reason behind them surviving combat with true Herald and above super-humans/aliens characters.
Captain America, Beast, and Deathstroke, etc are low level meta-humans because they are stated to be within that range.
Originally posted by Stoic
Street tier characters are badass enough that we don’t need to push them to tiers that they don’t belong in. They’re dangerous enough most of the time while just using the resources that they have on hand. Batman like Daredevil, Wildcat, Shiva, Iron Fist, Punisher and many others are not physically rated as meta-humans because they have no powers, well except for Iron Fist, but he isn’t superhuman in terms of lifting feats.You don’t understand the laws of acceleration/deceleration conservation. What this means in layman’s terms is that if you are protected from initial impacts or force/s that it does not protect you from accelerating from the place that you once stood in. Tony’s armor would actually be his doom. Imagine falling from a height of 2000ft within Earth’s atmosphere, while being inside of an impenetrable, or indestructible box. During free fall you will reach terminal velocity which happens at 1500ft. At the end of your fall the box that you are in does not suffer any damage, but as it hits the ground you are flung to the bottom of the box, which then turns you into jelly.
This happens every time that Tony is hit by forces that may have even greater impacts upon the suit than what was described during his free fall. The idea that he survives hits from the Hulk while inside the suit is as great or greater than Batman being face planted by Wonder Woman into concrete. Does this mean that we say that Tony has the durability of his armor? Technically the answer should be yes.
Looking back to the 1970’s before he used force fields you will see that he survived similar impacts and had minimal trouble rising to his feet. In real life that is humanly impossible.
If we want to claim that Batman has superhuman durability, or to be more precise Herald level durability, then we would also have to make the very same claim for Tony Stark without armor, because as stated, he would have to be as durable as his armor is in order to survive being hit by characters that possess Herald level strength. Not only him, but the Punisher, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Nightwing, Robin, Bucky, etc.
They are placed in the Street tier because they lack the strength, power (exotic or other) to be placed any higher than this. It has been repeatedly drilled into our minds that Batman does not actually have any powers. He is simply as powerful as comic book science affords a human with that have no powers can be. The suspension of disbelief is the reason behind them surviving combat with true Herald and above super-humans/aliens characters.
Captain America, Beast, and Deathstroke, etc are low level meta-humans because they are stated to be within that range.
Your long texts is pointless.
It's a fiction, where realism doesn't exist and where so-called "peak humans" is basically superhumans, no matter how much writers and fans wanna tell you like "They are just humans, but they are so adass because they are trained!'.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
His armour - even in the earliest incarnations - were meant to function like chain mail, dissipating impact forces.BS, yes, but writers had explanations for it. Comic book BS, unlike Batman who just.....does.
Daredevil just does as well. You won’t see anyone claiming that he is a Herald, or that he even has low meta-human strength. However Daredevil beat the mess out of Mr. Hyde.
Originally posted by Alex_Ferrana
Your long texts is pointless.It's a fiction, where realism doesn't exist and where so-called "peak humans" is basically superhumans, no matter how much writers and fans wanna tell you like "They are just humans, but they are so adass because they are trained!'.
Exactly. Fictional human level characters compared to us are super humans. However, there are different levels of being super human in comic books. Tony Stark proves this, Batman proves this, the Punisher proves this, Daredevil proves this, the Kingpin is the epitome of proving this.
Originally posted by Stoic
Daredevil just does as well. You won’t see anyone claiming that he is a Herald, or that he even has low meta-human strength. However Daredevil beat the mess out of Mr. Hyde.Exactly. Fictional human level characters compared to us are super humans. However, there are different levels of being super human in comic books. Tony Stark proves this, Batman proves this, the Punisher proves this, Daredevil proves this, the Kingpin is the epitome of proving this.
You think DD's best stacks up to Batman's? Prove it.
Re: Which street-level character could replicate this feat of Captain America?
Originally posted by Alex_FerranaDaredevil, while injured, using a billy club and a knife to take out:
The feat iself: https://imgur.com/a/vEesj#0Small context - in "Captain America" Vol. 1 (1968) #411 (1993) Cap is disguised as Crossbones and he runs the gauntlet by fighting against 5 opponents in a row. 1 round = 1 opponent. No rest and no gadgets/weapons/etc, only pure hand-to-hand combat.
1) Mad Dog (Robert "Buzz" Baxter, enemy of Hellcat/Patsy Walker).
2) Ramrod (cyborg, enemy of Daredevil, Black Widow and Spider-Man).
3) General Wo (460 pounds sumo wrestler, Vietnamese military general who can lift up a big statue, which weights around 1 ton).
4) Razor-Fist (Douglas Scott, enemy of Shang Chi).
5) Batroc The Leaper.
And bonus round (№6) - withstood an assault from the mob of villains (full list of villain during that event is here: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Captain_America_Vol_1_411).
So, who could replicate this feat? There's 2 sections:
1. Street-levellers from Marvel Comics (except Captain America/Steven Rogers, of course).
2) Street-levellers from DC Comics.
-Stilt-Man
-Owl
-Crossbones
-Bullet
-Bullseye
-Rhino
comes to mind.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You think DD's best stacks up to Batman's? Prove it.
What I’m saying is that it doesn’t have to. Being hit by Spider-Man alone tells us that Daredevil must have above street level durability. Beating Mr. Hyde should also mean that he hits well above street tier as well. This is just something that has to be expected from characters well below their weight class. Batman is not unique in this.