Yeah, but I think I kinda of getting what they're saying
Sure, ZH Parallax isn't in this fight. But Hal with the Krona's gauntlet (power of 12 GLs) beat ZH Parallax.
And now Hal gets 10 or 12 rings in this fight(I.E, Hal gets power of 10 or 12 GLs)
At least, that's what I got from this conversation above. I think their point is this
^ Sure. Hal's willpower is certainly a universal force(as confirmed by Volthoom.) Not denying that...But I guess my point is that saying Krona's Gauntlet *only* had the power of 12 GL rings is a bit disingenuous.
For example, when the Gauntlet obtained a consciousness/sentience of it's own, it took Mogo(whose raw power is already far superior to most Lanterns), further amped by the power of hundredS of GL rings, just to break through the Gauntlet's basic constructs. Then you also have Hal, minutes after obtaining the Gauntlet, escaping Mogo's gravity well(which had previously been sufficient to overpower hundreds/thousands of Black Lanterns)... And the list goes on.
Imo, when Hal/Guy initially interacted with Krona's Gauntlet, it may have *felt* like the power of a dozen rings, but it ultimately proved to be vastly more powerful than that(hence its subsequent feats.) IOW, I don't think comparing Krona's Gauntlet to the 10-ring-Hal in this thread is necessarily the best analogy. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007ya but according to the op pic, hal had 13 rings. would that make a difference?
^ Sure. Hal's willpower is certainly a universal force(as confirmed by Volthoom.) Not denying that...But I guess my point is that saying Krona's Gauntlet *only* had the power of 12 GL rings is a bit disingenuous.For example, when the Gauntlet obtained a consciousness/sentience of it's own, it took Mogo(whose raw power is already far superior to most Lanterns), further amped by the power of hundredS of GL rings, just to break through the Gauntlet's basic constructs. Then you also have Hal, minutes after obtaining the Gauntlet, escaping Mogo's gravity well(which had previously been sufficient to overpower hundreds/thousands of Black Lanterns)... And the list goes on.
Imo, when Hal/Guy initially interacted with Krona's Gauntlet, it may have *felt* like the power of a dozen rings, but it ultimately proved to be vastly more powerful than that(hence its subsequent feats.) IOW, I don't think comparing Krona's Gauntlet to the 10-ring-Hal in this thread is necessarily the best analogy. /shrug
^ That's just cover art.
Hal only obtained 10 GL rings in the issues themselves, as you can see here:
https://ibb.co/7jhyHnC
...Then he discarded all but one of them to fight/kill Sinestro and Kilowog. Then he waltzed into the CPB to become Parallax.
So the max number of rings Hal ever had on panel during that arc is 10... But that's neither here nor there. I am simply saying that Krona's Gauntlet is far more powerful than a dozen GL rings, all feats considered.
Originally posted by Galan007fair enough. been ages since i read those issues.
^ That's just cover art.Hal only obtained 10 GL rings in the issues themselves, as you can see here:
https://ibb.co/7jhyHnC...Then he discarded all but one of them to fight/kill Sinestro and Kilowog. Then he waltzed into the CPB to become Parallax.
So the max number of rings Hal ever had on panel during that arc is 10... But that's neither here nor there. I am simply saying that Krona's Gauntlet is far more powerful than a dozen GL rings, all feats considered.
Originally posted by Galan007The only relevant part of this post has been emphasized for justice. 👆
^ Sure. Hal's willpower is certainly a universal force(as confirmed by Volthoom.) Not denying that...But I guess my point is that saying Krona's Gauntlet *only* had the power of 12 GL rings is a bit disingenuous.For example, when the Gauntlet obtained a consciousness/sentience of it's own, it took Mogo(whose raw power is already far superior to most Lanterns), further amped by the power of hundredS of GL rings, just to break through the Gauntlet's basic constructs. Then you also have Hal, minutes after obtaining the Gauntlet, escaping Mogo's gravity well(which had previously been sufficient to overpower hundreds/thousands of Black Lanterns)... And the list goes on.
Imo, when Hal/Guy initially interacted with Krona's Gauntlet, it may have *felt* like the power of a dozen rings, but it ultimately proved to be vastly more powerful than that(hence its subsequent feats.) IOW, I don't think comparing Krona's Gauntlet to the 10-ring-Hal in this thread is necessarily the best analogy. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007👆 👆
^ That's just cover art.Hal only obtained 10 GL rings in the issues themselves, as you can see here:
https://ibb.co/7jhyHnC...Then he discarded all but one of them to fight/kill Sinestro and Kilowog. Then he waltzed into the CPB to become Parallax.
So the max number of rings Hal ever had on panel during that arc is 10... But that's neither here nor there. I am simply saying that Krona's Gauntlet is far more powerful than a dozen GL rings, all feats considered.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ Sure. Hal's willpower is certainly a universal force(as confirmed by Volthoom.) Not denying that...But I guess my point is that saying Krona's Gauntlet *only* had the power of 12 GL rings is a bit disingenuous.For example, when the Gauntlet obtained a consciousness/sentience of it's own, it took Mogo(whose raw power is already far superior to most Lanterns), further amped by the power of hundredS of GL rings, just to break through the Gauntlet's basic constructs. Then you also have Hal, minutes after obtaining the Gauntlet, escaping Mogo's gravity well(which had previously been sufficient to overpower hundreds/thousands of Black Lanterns)... And the list goes on.
Imo, when Hal/Guy initially interacted with Krona's Gauntlet, it may have *felt* like the power of a dozen rings, but it ultimately proved to be vastly more powerful than that(hence its subsequent feats.) IOW, I don't think comparing Krona's Gauntlet to the 10-ring-Hal in this thread is necessarily the best analogy. /shrug
^ I definitely agree that Hal's willpower(especially since the Johns/Rebirth era) is pretty much unbounded, which is why he can do the ridiculous shit that he does.
I'm just saying that taking the statements made about the Gauntlet "only" having the power of 12 standard GL rings at face value, probably isn't the most reliable metric. As mentioned, those statements were made when Hal/Guy initially began interfacing with the Gauntlet, so that is what it may have felt like to them at first... Just a massive surge of raw power.
But as we know, the Gauntlet draws its power directly from the CPB/Ion:
https://ibb.co/D9GZQpQ
That is most likely why, during Venditti's run(as Hal grew more and more acclimated with the Gauntlet), it ended up being FAR more powerful than he first thought -- ultimately transforming Hal into an entity-esque being composed of pure thought/expression/will.
Think about it: Hal "God-Will" Jordan using a device that enables him to mainline willpower straight from its [universal] source? Yeah, 12 rings would have just been the starting point, me thinks. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007
^ I definitely agree that Hal's willpower(especially since the Johns/Rebirth era) is pretty much unbounded, which is why he can do the ridiculous shit that he does.I'm just saying that taking the statements made about the Gauntlet "only" having the power of 12 standard GL rings at face value, probably isn't the most reliable metric. As mentioned, those statements were made when Hal/Guy initially began interfacing with the Gauntlet, so that is what it may have felt like to them at first... Just a massive surge of raw power.
But as we know, the Gauntlet draws its power directly from the CPB/Ion:
https://ibb.co/D9GZQpQ
That is most likely why, during Venditti's run(as Hal grew more and more acclimated with the Gauntlet), it ended up being FAR more powerful than he first thought -- ultimately transforming Hal into an entity-esque being composed of pure thought/expression/will.Think about it: Hal "God-Will" Jordan using a device that enables him to mainline willpower straight from its [universal] source? Yeah, 12 rings would have just been the starting point, me thinks. /shrug
Its Hal's willpower that makes the difference. Guy with the gauntlet was casually owned by three guardians, one guardian casually destroyed his armor etc.
https://s22.postimg.cc/l9exrrvkx/RCO018.jpg
https://s22.postimg.cc/nqqoz1uwx/RCO019.jpg
https://s22.postimg.cc/6q7sqdpld/RCO020.jpg
https://s22.postimg.cc/q82g6bu8x/RCO021.jpg
^ I think you're missing my point.
Krona's Gauntlet draws its power directly from the CPB/Ion-entity.
As I said: 12-rings-worth of power was likely just the Gauntlet's starting point. When Hal subconsciously began tapping-into the full breadth of its power(against Parallax later in the same issue your scans are from), he metamorphosed into an entity-esque being composed of pure thought/expression/willpower:
https://ibb.co/ByRk0sk
https://ibb.co/ygZWfny
https://ibb.co/XLKXmNV
https://ibb.co/7Sn5Y97
...Which is why he was able to overpower Parallax.
ie. entity-Hal(after beginning to realize the Gauntlet's full power) > Parallax = his entire GLC/3,600 rings >>> initial Gauntlet Hal(who was only tapping into its basic 12-ring-levels of power.)
Moreover, while entity-Hal was forging his new ring, he sent tremors that reverberated throughout the entire emotional spectrum:
https://ibb.co/VHY4WLs
https://ibb.co/d7m0JcL
https://ibb.co/9yZ19mY
https://ibb.co/0VzNh5f
Hal became entity-level because Krona's Gauntlet was funneling willpower into him directly from its universal source. IOW, capping the Gauntlet at a scant "12 rings" or whatever is disingenuous, and ignores the Gauntlet's primary function/power source. It was ultimately more than that. A lot more.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ I think you're missing my point.Krona's Gauntlet draws its power directly from the CPB/Ion-entity.
As I said: 12-rings-worth of power was likely just the Gauntlet's starting point. When Hal subconsciously began tapping-into the full breadth of its power(against Parallax later in the same issue your scans are from), he metamorphosed into an entity-esque being composed of pure thought/expression/willpower:
https://ibb.co/ByRk0sk
https://ibb.co/ygZWfny
https://ibb.co/XLKXmNV
https://ibb.co/7Sn5Y97
...Which is why he was able to overpower Parallax.ie. entity-Hal(after beginning to realize the Gauntlet's full power) > Parallax = his entire GLC/3,600 rings >>> initial Gauntlet Hal(who was only tapping into its basic 12-ring-levels of power.)
Moreover, while entity-Hal was forging his new ring, he sent tremors that reverberated throughout the entire emotional spectrum:
https://ibb.co/VHY4WLs
https://ibb.co/d7m0JcL
https://ibb.co/9yZ19mY
https://ibb.co/0VzNh5fHal became entity-level because Krona's Gauntlet was funneling willpower into him directly from its universal source. IOW, capping the Gauntlet at a scant "12 rings" or whatever is disingenuous, and ignores the Gauntlet's primary function/power source. It was ultimately more than that. A lot more.
There's no proof that it was more powerful than a dozen rings as stated multiple times.
^ Except for the fact that when Hal was initially using the power of 12 rings against Parallax(in the scans you posted), he was entirely ineffective... But when he dug deeper into the Gauntlet's power later in the issue(and went entity-mode), he overpowered Parallax quite easily.
Even Parallax himself commented on the difference/change in Hal at the end of their battle: "Look what you're becoming! You shouldn't exist!"
