The Flash Family vs these heralds.

Originally posted by carver9
Lmmfao... at least you know the Flashes outside of one showing is basically irrelevant. Imagine us accepting just one showing from Rhino, how uber he would be. Sadly, his consistency has ruined him on KMC. Flash is Rhino. He has that ooonnnneeee showing that makes him looks relevant while the rest of his fights are shit.

Point out the 'Average Consistency' Rule, please.

A character like the Flash is not going to get hit by someone substantially slower than him unless they have some counter to his powers. Simple as that. Wally West isn't Superman (and I'm going to get in to this in a later post). He can't afford to get hit more than once or twice before it starts to actually impact his ability to win the fight. And this, at the end of all of this ranting on the subject, is where I try to lay it out as best as I can:

The Flash/Relevant Character X will use, at a bare minimum, the least amount of speed/Relevant Power, that he is capable of using under average/normal circumstances, required to not lose the fight, or get so badly injured that it will most-likely cost him the fight. Every superhero or supervillain has a minimum amount of effort and competence that they will utilise going in to a fight. For villains that's usually a higher starting point because they like to not hold back, sure, but the heroes aren't going to be stupid either. They are not going to self-sabotage, and they will not let pride, ego or forgetting they have a way to win the fight to get in the way.

-If you put Flash up against someone that can't beat him without PIS, that's not his fault. That's yours.

Mod rulings. If the heralds can't match Flash's speed (Barry/Wally), then they lose. Comics being full of PIS doesn't mean anything. I agree, comics are consistently full of PIS.

Edit: we can twist it around.

Captain Cold consistently does well against Flash, right? All the Rogues do.

So what happens when they get to Marvel? Do they solo the MU?

Walk this through with me:

1. Wally is faster than Death, faster than light, faster than speed, right? Y/N?
2. He consistently doesn't do well against JLA opponents, right? Y/N?
3. Therefore, these JLA opponents are.....faster than Death, faster than light, faster than speed too? Y/N?

Because if your answer to 3 is 'NO', then how do they win? Does Flash let himself get punched? Does he like it? Are all these opponents durable enough to withstand multiple IMPs?

I mean, we have Flash casually soloing WW's Rogues gallery:

They literally explain that Flash's city is a no-go for supervillains:

And just last year there was an entire storyline where the entire Earth (yes, including Superman etc) were all too slow to fight - apart from the Flash family.

Who said anything about average consistency? You yourself argued Rhino showings as a consistency for the character. You've done this with a number of characters. Flash is NOT Anti Monitor level. Superboy Prime, Monarch and a number of others who is below Anti Monitor would work Flash.

Anyways, the scans you posted, Flash bfred them. Nice showing but i stand by what I said.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean, we have Flash casually soloing WW's Rogues gallery:

Dude, even I could do that...

Originally posted by carver9
Who said anything about average consistency? You yourself argued Rhino showings as a consistency for the character. You've done this with a number of characters. Flash is NOT Anti Monitor level. Superboy Prime, Monarch and a number of others who is below Anti Monitor would work Flash.

Anyways, the scans you posted, Flash bfred them. Nice showing but i stand by what I said.

Erm, you did, lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash had help against Monitor and that's literally Flash best and only combat showing. 99% of the time, hes garbage tbh and does absolutely nothing to help the JLA against serious threats.

1. Speedsteal isn't a viable tactic?

2. Hitting a Herald with the mass of a white dwarf isn't a viable tactic?
Could any of the heralds tank (without being at least koed) one punch moving at insane speed combined with the mass of a white dwarf in the small size of a human fist? Let's not even compute the pressure and kinetic energy from such a punch.
If so give me a feat that proves it.

Going intangible isn't a viable tactic (not that flash needs to, read below)

Or most importantly
Seeing all the heralds frozen for hundreds of years is not a viable tactic?

Lastly the rules assumed that flash NEVER clocked anyone in the first millisecond of the comic when it stated that Flash is allowed to because he possesses that level of speed.

So flash possess the level of speed to statue the heralds for years, and increase his mass to a white dwarf star and above.

Originally posted by h1a8
So wait a minute.

1. Speedsteal isn't a viable tactic?

2. Hitting a Herald with the mass of a white dwarf isn't a viable tactic?
Could any of the heralds tank (without being at least koed) one punch moving at insane speed combined with the mass of a white dwarf in the small size of a human fist? Let's not even compute the pressure and kinetic energy from such a punch.
If so give me a feat that proves it.

Going intangible isn't a viable tactic (not that flash needs to, read below)

Or most importantly
Seeing all the heralds frozen for hundreds of years is not a viable tactic?

Lastly the rules assumed that flash NEVER clocked anyone in the first millisecond of the comic when it stated that Flash is allowed to because he possesses that level of speed.

So flash possess the level of speed to statue the heralds for years, and increase his mass to a white dwarf star and above.

Here you go...

https://ibb.co/7pdvRjy
https://ibb.co/QPgLNfW
https://ibb.co/fXRBnzH
https://ibb.co/M7Mbqx3
https://ibb.co/ZgxJt5G
https://ibb.co/TrCBVF0
https://ibb.co/yV6PcFw

No Girder or Grodd?

Shame on you, reported.

Originally posted by carver9
Here you go...

https://ibb.co/7pdvRjy
https://ibb.co/QPgLNfW
https://ibb.co/fXRBnzH
https://ibb.co/M7Mbqx3
https://ibb.co/ZgxJt5G
https://ibb.co/TrCBVF0
https://ibb.co/yV6PcFw

Why troll? You completely ignored what I said, especially about the rules.

Originally posted by h1a8
So wait a minute.

1. Speedsteal isn't a viable tactic?

2. Hitting a Herald with the mass of a white dwarf isn't a viable tactic?
Could any of the heralds tank (without being at least koed) one punch moving at insane speed combined with the mass of a white dwarf in the small size of a human fist? Let's not even compute the pressure and kinetic energy from such a punch.
If so give me a feat that proves it.

Going intangible isn't a viable tactic (not that flash needs to, read below)

Or most importantly
Seeing all the heralds frozen for hundreds of years is not a viable tactic?

Lastly the rules assumed that flash NEVER clocked anyone in the first millisecond of the comic when it stated that Flash is allowed to because he possesses that level of speed.

So flash possess the level of speed to statue the heralds for years, and increase his mass to a white dwarf star and above.

Originally posted by h1a8
Why troll? You completely ignored what I said, especially about the rules.

Dude the scans that both of you posted are equally valid. It shows that both sides are vulnerable. Power Cosmic can shut off a person's ability to even have a power.

Originally posted by Stoic
Dude the scans that both of you posted are equally valid. It shows that both sides are vulnerable. Power Cosmic can shut off a person's ability to even have a power.

His scans are not valid to the rules of FULL Capacity.

Flash using the IMP is a viable tactic. Flash has shown that he can increase his mass up to white dwarf star level and beyond.

Flash perceiving the heralds as frozen statues is a viable tactic. Flash has established attosecond perception. 1 attosecond to a 1 second is like 1 second is to 31 billion years. If the heralds have nanosecond perception (being generous towards them) then 1 nanosecond to them is like 31 years to Flash. So the heralds will be frozen the entire fight.

Flash stealing speed is a viable tactic. Flash has demonstrated this multiple times.

Although the following is irrelevant to the fight due to the above but are you saying that Surfer can shut off Thor's, Thanos, Darkseid, Odins, Elders,Celestial, etc power?

Originally posted by h1a8
His scans are not valid to the rules of FULL Capacity.

Flash using the IMP is a viable tactic. Flash has shown that he can increase his mass up to white dwarf star level and beyond.

Flash perceiving the heralds as frozen statues is a viable tactic. Flash has established attosecond perception. 1 attosecond to a 1 second is like 1 second is to 31 billion years. If the heralds have nanosecond perception (being generous towards them) then 1 nanosecond to them is like 31 years to Flash. So the heralds will be frozen the entire fight.

Flash stealing speed is a viable tactic. Flash has demonstrated this multiple times.

Although the following is irrelevant to the fight due to the above but are you saying that Surfer can shut off Thor's, Thanos, Darkseid, Odins, Elders,Celestial, etc power?

Flash infinite mass punch is overrated. Zoom even withstood it. Who has this punch knocked out?

Originally posted by carver9
Flash infinite mass punch is overrated. Zoom even withstood it. Who has this punch knocked out?

Well if someone withstood the mass of a white dwarf traveling at insane speed in the size of a human fist then that's impressive for that character. They get that feat, no one else does.

Zoom slows time down. So flash is not moving at relativistic speeds to him

It doesn't take away from what I said though.
Flash CAN increase his mass up to a white dwarf star and reserves that option if he needs to. He has 31 years of hitting a frozen statue to figure it out.

Originally posted by h1a8
Well if someone withstood the mass of a white dwarf traveling at insane speed in the size of a human fist then that's impressive for that character. They get that feat, no one else does.

Zoom slows time down. So flash is not moving at relativistic speeds to him

It doesn't take away from what I said though.
Flash CAN increase his mass up to a white dwarf star and reserves that option if he needs to. He has 31 years of hitting a frozen statue to figure it out.

Flash has used it twice and 2 weaklings survived it.

Nothing in the Zoom scene did not mention Zoom not withstanding the full punching power of that attack. Its overrated and I need you to show something proving it working against Surfer.

Originally posted by carver9
Flash has used it twice and 2 weaklings survived it.

Nothing in the Zoom scene did not mention Zoom not withstanding the full punching power of that attack. Its overrated and I need you to show something proving it working against Surfer.

Do you know how it works? It's based off the theory of relativity.
You have to be moving at a certain speed RELATIVE to another. If Zoom is moving near the speed that Flash is moving then Zoom will experience a small effect (or none at all).

Assuming Zoom experienced the total mass of a white dwarf then that would be a durability feat for him.
No one else gets that feat.

So what you are saying is irrelevant.

Originally posted by h1a8
Do you know how it works? It's based off the theory of relativity.
You have to be moving at a certain speed RELATIVE to another. If Zoom is moving near the speed that Flash is moving then Zoom will experience a small effect (or none at all).

Assuming Zoom experienced the total mass of a white dwarf then that would be a durability feat for him.
No one else gets that feat.

So what you are saying is irrelevant.

Zoom has been knocked out before by a number of people, and Zoom isn't the only person to withstand the attack. Also, you're applying real world logic to a comic book when we both know that's not how comics work.

Originally posted by carver9
Zoom has been knocked out before by a number of people, and Zoom isn't the only person to withstand the attack. Also, you're applying real world logic to a comic book when we both know that's not how comics work.

So either Zoom withstood the mass of a white dwarf or he didn't. Either way destroys your argument.

P1. Zoom tanked the force of a white dwarf.
Conclusion: Zoom gets a durability feat. No one else gets his feat unless they achieved the same thing or greater.

P2. Zoom didn't tank the mass of a white dwarf.
Conclusion: Doesnt change the fact that Flash has the ability to increase his mass up to white dwarf level in a forum fight.He will have over 31 years to figure it out.

None of the Heralds have any impressive speed feats sadly, they don't have a chance

Originally posted by h1a8
So either Zoom withstood the mass of a white dwarf or he didn't. Either way destroys your argument.

P1. Zoom tanked the force of a white dwarf.
Conclusion: Zoom gets a durability feat. No one else gets his feat unless they achieved the same thing or greater.

P2. Zoom didn't tank the mass of a white dwarf.
Conclusion: Doesnt change the fact that Flash has the ability to increase his mass up to white dwarf level in a forum fight.He will have over 31 years to figure it out.

He withstood Flash SUPPOSEDLY infinite mass punch and he isn't the only one. A weak white Martian did as well.

You really don't have an argument, H1. Based off showings, Surfer tanks the attack.