Silver Surfer strength comparison.

Wouldn't that type of hold be effective against the strongest if they were relatively the same size? Being pinned in that kind of way, defies strength, because in practice it uses the person's strength against the person. Don't believe it? Look at Gordon Ryan, he made the strongest man in the world tap. It had nothing to do with strength. Demetrius Johnson a guy weighing 140 lbs at about 5'3" recently defeated a 6 plus foot 300 plus pound man.

Black Panther in that scene used one of those exact moves. The Surfer could have gone intangible at any time, which begs the question of who was actually in control?

Physically however, without using his powers, he was legitimately pinned.

Originally posted by Stoic
Look at Gordon Ryan, he made the strongest man in the world tap. It had nothing to do with strength. Demetrius Johnson a guy weighing 140 lbs at about 5'3" recently defeated a 6 plus foot 300 plus pound man.

Black Panther in that scene used one of those exact moves.
Physically however, without using his powers, he was legitimately pinned.

For reference, the SPiderman/Firelord "fight"

FIrelord could have ended Spiderman whenever he wanted.

Silver Surfer can account for access and adapt so that his strength is concentration. Then he can burn through steel with a thought. Captain Marvel might be able to concentrate her power of a white hole and equal a Hulk induced strength that wins the fight. Carol Danvers is strong.

Originally posted by Stoic
Wouldn't that type of hold be effective against the strongest if they were relatively the same size? Being pinned in that kind of way, defies strength, because in practice it uses the person's strength against the person. Don't believe it? Look at Gordon Ryan, he made the strongest man in the world tap. It had nothing to do with strength. Demetrius Johnson a guy weighing 140 lbs at about 5'3" recently defeated a 6 plus foot 300 plus pound man.

Black Panther in that scene used one of those exact moves. The Surfer could have gone intangible at any time, which begs the question of who was actually in control?

Physically however, without using his powers, he was legitimately pinned.

The strength disparity, as Zop says, is astronomical. Surfer's pinky twitch would turn humans into a pink mist, assuming he's as strong as they say.

I'm really beginning to wonder at some people's grasp of magnitudes here.

Originally posted by zopzop
My brother in Christ, the difference in strength between the two is/was exponential. This wasn't two human beings fighting (no matter the size and weight difference). Surfer has a CL70-100 strength. This was a human being vs a cosmic entity that has superhuman strength. And this assumes Surfer would just keep if physical, he could have let loose an omnidirectional blast from his person and literally fried Black Panther. Everything about that fight is 100% bullsh|t.

For reference, the SPiderman/Firelord "fight"

FIrelord could have ended Spiderman whenever he wanted.

Not physically though 😈

Originally posted by Wonder Man
Silver Surfer can account for access and adapt so that his strength is concentration. Then he can burn through steel with a thought. Captain Marvel might be able to concentrate her power of a white hole and equal a Hulk induced strength that wins the fight. Carol Danvers is strong.

A white hole can be extreme and break the record. Carol should go the distance. She can do things that are seen so that her feminine intuition breaks the mold.

DS and Zop, strength really doesn't matter when a person has no leverage. In that scene, in order for the Surfer to free himself, he would have had to dislocate his shoulder and pop the capsule in his elbow to free himself.

Let's say that you two are correct and I'm wrong, no one could ever prove it because such a disparity has never existed. You could be correct. However because of his humanoid or human anatomy, Black Panther sought to exploit conditions that would make it literally impossible for Norrin to escape without doing extreme harm to himself. That exact pin causes the person who is pinned to exert force upon their own joints in order to escape. The stronger the person is, the more pressure that there is to exert upon their joints. In short, the pain of escaping is greater than the tolerance that one can take in order to proceed with the escape.

The Surfer escaping on sheer brute strength alone would make less sense imo.

The Surfer at any time could have released an AOE, or become intangible to escape, but he was pinned.

Black Panther even mentions Surfers VASTLY superior strength. This isn't a strength ft for BP.

A

Originally posted by Stoic
DS and Zop, strength really doesn't matter when a person has no leverage. In that scene, in order for the Surfer to free himself, he would have had to dislocate his shoulder and pop the capsule in his elbow to free himself.

Let's say that you two are correct and I'm wrong, no one could ever prove it because such a disparity has never existed. You could be correct. However because of his humanoid or human anatomy, Black Panther sought to exploit conditions that would make it literally impossible for Norrin to escape without doing extreme harm to himself. That exact pin causes the person who is pinned to exert force upon their own joints in order to escape. The stronger the person is, the more pressure that there is to exert upon their joints. In short, the pain of escaping is greater than the tolerance that one can take in order to proceed with the escape.

The Surfer escaping on sheer brute strength alone would make less sense imo.

The Surfer at any time could have released an AOE, or become intangible to escape, but he was pinned.

Lmao.

Why can't he just straighten his right arm? The amount of pressure BP is exerting on that shoulder joint - compared to a star, or a black hole, is nothing.

The whole point of the hammer lock is that it decreases the amount of strength and opponent can bring, true - but even 1% of the amount of strength a guy who has supposedly infinite Power Cosmic strength, is, well infinite.

Agreed, but comics are comics after all. Look at Batman's feats and he doesn't have super human strength like the Black Panther does. Batman pulls the impossible about as often as Spiderman does and that shouldn't be a thing, but it is.

According to the writer, the Surfer was physically pinned because that type of hold can not be brute forced out of. I am not being ignorant to what you are saying, I'm saying that an individual placed within that hold can not generate the necessary power to break out, due to physical limitations.

But the Power Cosmic is infinite, no? Physical limitations be damned.
I guess this is a clear case of it not being infinite.

I think McDuffie wanted to show us that BLM > Power Cosmic...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But the Power Cosmic is infinite, no? Physical limitations be damned.
I guess this is a clear case of it not being infinite.

You do know every character has showings that contradicts their power, right? Do you honestly do this with all characters or is this a Surfer thang?

Originally posted by carver9
You do know every character has showings that contradicts their power, right? Do you honestly do this with all characters or is this a Surfer thang?

I'm not saying it's valid lmao.

Stoic is saying it's a valid showing. I'm saying it's stupid.

Do you just try and argue against me without actually reading what I type?

Yes

Lmao. Then go for it, argue against me. Tell me how it's a valid showing, Carvy.

There you have it, folks - Carver thinks it's valid that BP can put Surfer in a hammerlock, no context needed 😂

As Pr said:

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes, Carver is a troll. Also, water is wet, etc.

Upload all of the MMA knowledge that exists on earth into a normal 4 year old child. Then have that 4 year old try and put me in a sneaky 'inescapable' armbar. Even though the child's technical skills would be superior to mine, there is still a vast difference in strength that technique alone simply cannot make up for. I'd just straighten my arm, and throw that kid into a wall, ftw. Leverage advantage (or w/e) doesn't mean shit when you're just that much stronger than your opponent.

...Then remember that the difference in strength between myself and a 4 year old is still orders of magnitude below what the difference in strength should have been between Surfer and BP. For example, I obviously would not be able to toss that same 4 year old from the earth to the moon, whereas Surfer logically could do something like that to BP.

tl;dr

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'm saying it's stupid.

Originally posted by Galan007
Upload all of the MMA knowledge that exists on earth into a normal 4 year old child. Then have that 4 year old try and put me in a sneaky 'inescapable' armbar. Even though the child's technical skills would be superior to mine, there is still a vast difference in strength that technique alone simply cannot make up for. I'd just straighten my arm, and throw that kid into a wall, ftw. Leverage advantage (or w/e) doesn't mean shit when you're just that much stronger than your opponent.

...Then remember that the difference in strength between myself and a 4 year old is still orders of magnitude below what the difference in strength should have been between Surfer and BP. For example, I obviously would not be able to toss that same 4 year old from the earth to the moon, whereas Surfer logically could do something like that to BP.

tl;dr

Originally posted by Galan007
Upload all of the MMA knowledge that exists on earth into a normal 4 year old child. Then have that 4 year old try and put me in a sneaky 'inescapable' armbar. Even though the child's technical skills would be superior to mine, there is still a vast difference in strength that technique alone simply cannot make up for. I'd just straighten my arm, and throw that kid into a wall, ftw. Leverage advantage (or w/e) doesn't mean shit when you're just that much stronger than your opponent.

...Then remember that the difference in strength between myself and a 4 year old is still orders of magnitude below what the difference in strength should have been between Surfer and BP. For example, I obviously would not be able to toss that same 4 year old from the earth to the moon, whereas Surfer logically could do something like that to BP.

tl;dr

Start by picturing a lanky 13 year old trying to hold Dwayne The Rock Johnson in an armbar.

Now ask yourself what's wrong with the picture.