Cosmic Powerhouse Battle Royal

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It”s very clear from the JLI comics that Mandrakk is NOT a servant of Perpetua, which is what was said about him in her arc. It”s also directly stated that Mandrakk was the manifestation of the GEB, which again is not something that was ever stated before.

It absolutely recontextualizes Mandrakk from the perspective of “he is a scion of Perpetua” to “He is the direct manifestation of GEB”

... scans of what you're positing?

Originally posted by ODG
I mean, ok. I'm the one that brought the shade so...

... scans of what you're positing?

Scan from the Perpetua arc showing that Mandrakk was one of her scions, helping to instigate crises in order to set her free:

All of the villains shown are considered "scions" of Perpetua, with her last scion being Barbatos. Below is the scan from JLI showing that Mandrakk is the direct manifestation of the Great Darkness, and the first to ever be corrupted by the Dark (e.g. before Perpetua, Anti-Monitor, or anybody else for that matter):

Context is key here. Don't feel like posting all the scans, but Mandrakk is differentiated from a typical "avatar" of the Great Darkness. JLI 4 shows all the major cosmic events from COIE through the Perpetua Arc, and all the cosmic villains except Mandrakk are said to be puppets or avatars of GEB. the scan above pretty much says "after all these crises, and at the Multiverse's lowest moment, the Great Darkness finally revealed itself in the form of Mandrakk". I.e. the Great Darkness does not "reveal itself" through other puppets like Anti-Monitor or Dr. Manhattan, but it does through Mandrakk (indicating Mandrakk is like a true manifestation of GEB rather than an avatar or puppet).

^ Yeah, those are the scans I was thinking of too. I just don't take it as literally as you.

I agree that Mandrakk's machinations may have been subtly egged on by the Great Darkness. But unlike The Empty Hand, Mandrakk is not a literal part of the Great Darkness. The Great Darkness really had nothing to do with Final Crisis.

Technically The Great Darkness is everything the Presence isn't. And acting like Mandrakk is a manifestation of The Great Darkness is as tenuous as suggesting that all the good deeds that Superman performs is a direct manifestation of the Presence. Superman is his own character, has his own origin and has his own agency. Mandrakk also was his own character, had his own origin, and had his own agency.

Those scans are inelegant attempts at reframing everything in the past as if the past were always leading up to this current storyline which will be the bestest, most ultimatest ever!!! But that's my own opinion. I could deconstruct it further but honestly, I don't really care to take the role of Mandrakk's white knight fanboy here.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Tl;Dr: Based on the most recent arc, the Great Evil Beast/Great Darkness is >>>>>>>>>>>>> any other “cosmic villain” in DC. Capable of destroying the entire Greater Omniverse and such.

In the latest description of DC”s cosmic history, Mandrakk is said to be the direct manifestation of GEB itself. Not just an avatar or a puppet, but the actual Great Darkness in the flesh. While Mandrakk obviously isn’t as strong as the actual GEB, I think it fits with Mandrakk”s background as “The Absolute Enemy” (referred to as this in both Morrison”s comics and the most recent arc), which the GEB is also referred to as multiple times. Mandrakk is the ultimate representation of nonexistence/anti-story in DC with the exception of GEB.

I stand by my position that within the context of the Perpetua arc, Perpetua is absolutely meant to be stronger than Mandrakk, with Mandrakk explicitly being a “Scion” of Perpetua in that arc. The writers realized Mandrakk being a scion of Perpetua does not fit with his original intent/vibe, and so he was restored to his rightful place.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It”s very clear from the JLI comics that Mandrakk is NOT a servant of Perpetua, which is what was said about him in her arc. It”s also directly stated that Mandrakk was the manifestation of the GEB, which again is not something that was ever stated before.

It absolutely recontextualizes Mandrakk from the perspective of “he is a scion of Perpetua” to “He is the direct manifestation of GEB”

I think if might help resolve the paradox if you re-read the scans with a different understanding of that word.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Yeah, those are the scans I was thinking of too. I just don't take it as literally as you.

I agree that Mandrakk's machinations may have been subtly egged on by the Great Darkness. But unlike The Empty Hand, Mandrakk is not a literal part of the Great Darkness. The Great Darkness really had nothing to do with Final Crisis.

Technically The Great Darkness is everything the Presence isn't. And acting like Mandrakk is a manifestation of The Great Darkness is as tenuous as suggesting that all the good deeds that Superman performs is a direct manifestation of the Presence. Superman is his own character, has his own origin and has his own agency. Mandrakk also was his own character, had his own origin, and had his own agency.

Those scans are inelegant attempts at reframing everything in the past as if the past were always leading up to this current storyline which will be the bestest, most ultimatest ever!!! But that's my own opinion. I could deconstruct it further but honestly, I don't really care to take the role of Mandrakk's white knight fanboy here.