Abraxas has more destructive feats though. Superman KOd him albeit amplified.
What doesn’t make sense about World Forger his brothers and his mom.
If we placed World Forger on a cosmic scale how powerful is he really? He nearly comes off as a Pre Retcon Beyonder level due to the scope at which he can create entire multiverses but lacks the casual reality manipulation that the Beyonder of those years could operate at and his destructive feats. He was unable to see sense his defeat at Superman’s hands, unable to read Batman’s mind and generally came across as the DC version of the Shaper of Worlds.
If we assume that World Forger was equal to his brothers, and use the most recent showings, we will see the Antimonitor become overwhelmed by physical attacks from Superboy Prime. Superboy beat him far easier than he defeated Monarch which considerably lessens the impact of his cosmological standing in relation to the to his station.
Then Superboy KOd the Darkest Knight easier than he eventually dispatches Monarch despite DK supposedly having the power to know well before attacks occur. Meaning no sneak attacks. He lacked the ability to register or know that Prime the guy that would soundly defeat him using his fists was even a threat. He was neither omniscient or omnipotent according to battle feats. This showing indirectly or directly implied that Superboy would have beaten Perpetua with relative ease.
What also has me confused, is how are these guys remotely as powerful as guys like the Living Tribunal when they lack his vast versatility? Their combined awareness of space seemed weaker by far than even the Silver Surfers.
What are World Forgers actual combat feats? He was overwhelmed by Superman on a physical level? Guys like the Living Tribunal, Pre retcon Beyonder, and the Molecule Man would have known Batman’s thoughts which would have prevented any chance of Superman’s recovery and eventual assault.
What is the benchmark and is World Forger being a multiversal threat more hype than not? I do not see World Forger being far more powerful than Abraxas, I actually see it the other way around.
since stoic likes to use chatgpt, I asked copilot about the punch that defeated wf and destroyed his multiverse.
From the get go, copilot stated that Superman knocked out wf and destroyed his multiverse which but mistakenly thought it was fragile. But when i pointed out that it was stated in the comic to be a more mature and stable here is what it said.
“ You're absolutely right! The World Forger did indeed state that his multiverse was more mature and stable compared to the existing one. This detail is significant because it highlights the resilience of his creation. However, Superman's punch, amplified by his absorption of energy from multiple suns, was so powerful that it overcame even the stability of the World Forger's multiverse. The comic portrays this as a testament to Superman's unparalleled strength and determination”.
So if you’re of the beliefs that whatever chatgpt spits out is gospel.. ahem cough stoic.. 🙂. Then you have to accept that Superman defeated Wf and destroyed his multiverse. With that said, WF wins.
Originally posted by Stoic
Abraxas has more destructive feats though. Superman KOd him albeit amplified.What doesn’t make sense about World Forger his brothers and his mom.
If we placed World Forger on a cosmic scale how powerful is he really? He nearly comes off as a Pre Retcon Beyonder level due to the scope at which he can create entire multiverses but lacks the casual reality manipulation that the Beyonder of those years could operate at and his destructive feats. He was unable to see sense his defeat at Superman’s hands, unable to read Batman’s mind and generally came across as the DC version of the Shaper of Worlds.
If we assume that World Forger was equal to his brothers, and use the most recent showings, we will see the Antimonitor become overwhelmed by physical attacks from Superboy Prime. Superboy beat him far easier than he defeated Monarch which considerably lessens the impact of his cosmological standing in relation to the to his station.
Then Superboy KOd the Darkest Knight easier than he eventually dispatches Monarch despite DK supposedly having the power to know well before attacks occur. Meaning no sneak attacks. He lacked the ability to register or know that Prime the guy that would soundly defeat him using his fists was even a threat. He was neither omniscient or omnipotent according to battle feats. This showing indirectly or directly implied that Superboy would have beaten Perpetua with relative ease.What also has me confused, is how are these guys remotely as powerful as guys like the Living Tribunal when they lack his vast versatility? Their combined awareness of space seemed weaker by far than even the Silver Surfers.
What are World Forgers actual combat feats? He was overwhelmed by Superman on a physical level? Guys like the Living Tribunal, Pre retcon Beyonder, and the Molecule Man would have known Batman’s thoughts which would have prevented any chance of Superman’s recovery and eventual assault.
What is the benchmark and is World Forger being a multiversal threat more hype than not? I do not see World Forger being far more powerful than Abraxas, I actually see it the other way around.
Interesting. In one thread you accept that plot armour exists, when the argument suits you (Superboy Vs Blue Marvel, it doesn't count as a feat for Superboy because he had plot armour). Ok.
In this thread, despite freely admitting that plot armour exists, you..... question why Superman/SBP can do what they do, despite knowing that in DC, anything with an S shield is like the golden child there (second only perhaps to Bat themed heroes).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Interesting. In one thread you accept that plot armour exists, when the argument suits you (Superboy Vs Blue Marvel, it doesn't count as a feat for Superboy because he had plot armour). Ok.In this thread, despite freely admitting that plot armour exists, you..... question why Superman/SBP can do what they do, despite knowing that in DC, anything with an S shield is like the golden child there (second only perhaps to Bat themed heroes).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Interesting. In one thread you accept that plot armour exists, when the argument suits you (Superboy Vs Blue Marvel, it doesn't count as a feat for Superboy because he had plot armour). Ok.In this thread, despite freely admitting that plot armour exists, you..... question why Superman/SBP can do what they do, despite knowing that in DC, anything with an S shield is like the golden child there (second only perhaps to Bat themed heroes).
Plot armor is a part of the story plot. If we accept that Conner is capable of throwing hands with SBP we will also have to accept that he could throw hands with Monarch unless of course you have the brain power to realize that he’s only a mid meta and has never been more. As stated, Spider-Man defeated the Juggernaut, Firelord and Morlun who was able or capable of ripping through Adamantium like tissue. This means that one hit from him should have auto killed Spidey but due to plot armor he goes on to win the day.
You said it yourself and I fully agree, writers aren’t interested in power levels, they’re there to sell books. At which point we use logic. Conner is more regularly seen as a mid meta, while Adam can easily be scaled to Mid Transcendent Herald based on performances against guys like King Hyperion. The idea that Adam could one shot Conner is the most likely scenario due to fighting skill, greater strength, and antimatter punches.
Placing him against this lower powered character is actually an insult and unwarranted lowball attempt to drag him down to levels that he obviously far exceeds.
Like I said before Magog would have killed him, and Magog is weak in comparison to Blue Marvel who was able to restrain the Ghost of the Shaper of Worlds using his force fields.
Using plot armor, which is tens from the need for flashy battles in comics will never translate properly on battle boards, so if you lack discernment it may be a great time for you to fall back and meditate upon your faulty logic and reasoning skills. I of course believe that you have sound judgment and are simply a disingenuous type of person.
Originally posted by StoicThen as we both understand plot armour exists......
Plot armor is a part of the story plot. If we accept that Conner is capable of throwing hands with SBP we will also have to accept that he could throw hands with Monarch unless of course you have the brain power to realize that he’s only a mid meta and has never been more. As stated, Spider-Man defeated the Juggernaut, Firelord and Morlun who was able or capable of ripping through Adamantium like tissue. This means that one hit from him should have auto killed Spidey but due to plot armor he goes on to win the day.You said it yourself and I fully agree, writers aren’t interested in power levels, they’re there to sell books. At which point we use logic. Conner is more regularly seen as a mid meta, while Adam can easily be scaled to Mid Transcendent Herald based on performances against guys like King Hyperion. The idea that Adam could one shot Conner is the most likely scenario due to fighting skill, greater strength, and antimatter punches.
Placing him against this lower powered character is actually an insult and unwarranted lowball attempt to drag him down to levels that he obviously far exceeds.
Like I said before Magog would have killed him, and Magog is weak in comparison to Blue Marvel who was able to restrain the Ghost of the Shaper of Worlds using his force fields.
Using plot armor, which is tens from the need for flashy battles in comics will never translate properly on battle boards, so if you lack discernment it may be a great time for you to fall back and meditate upon your faulty logic and reasoning skills. I of course believe that you have sound judgment and are simply a disingenuous type of person.
WF's performance against Superman and Batman - two of the sacred cows of DC - shouldn't count against him. Supes/Bats get the plot armour.
Unless you believe these two charaacters are on the level of WF.