!st its a movie, anything can happen and be done so that Smith is code bla bla really means nothing.
2nd they are A.I. , they learn. There is no reason why the agents wouldn't know what is real or not.
3rd still didn't explain why they need the codes. its not real they could just pretende they learned inset of looking for them!
1. The Wachowski Bros. put alot of effort into making these movies seem as though they could really happen.........they have not broken one law of physics yet so I highly doubt they are going to break one just so Kes' theory of Reloaded/Revolutions will make sense. It is a movie.......a movie based on what could really happen......not some stupid movie like Stargate which is pure fantasy where a stone circle can open a gateway to another world. The movies are based on physical laws of the real world..........so all content in sed movies also adhere to the physical laws of the real world.
2. The Agents are not A.I..........they are only programs.......the system is A.I.........a program only does what it has been programmed to do, in the agent's case this is to stop people from waking up and realizing they are inside of the Matrix. They have no more intelligence than any character on a video game that is unplayable.......like the referee on Madden 2002.........they only do what they are programmed to do.
3. The agents want the codes to Zion so they can destroy it.......this prevents rebels like Neo and Morpheus from entering the Matrix and freeing minds..............this is what the agents were programmed to do, to stop people from having their minds freed. They do what they are programmed to do.
Thay need them to take the minds that are not sure of whats going on. That feel that the world is not real.
As for the law of physics...ah...watch the movie.The plug in the back of the had is enough! Thats si-fi!
(Theres actually an explanation as to how the stargate works)
Have you seen the animatrix renacience (sp)?There are all this robots and they all have a.i. A program can have it because it is a program in itself. Are you saying that the system is the only A.I. around?what happen to the rest? If that were true than they were doing the exact same thing the humans did.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
I'll try to answer these in order:1. Your mind can enter the Matrix because the Matrix is simply computer code that is transmitted through the ports in the person's body into electrical impulses......electrical impulses are the signals sent to our brain which controls the way we percieve reality. This allows the electrical impulses sent into the brain from the Matrix to fool the brain into thinking they are naturally occuring electrical impluses that we use everyday to see, hear, feel, etc.
This cannot be done in reverse as the human body has no program inside of it to decode a computer program and transform it into electrical impulses. The Smith program could not invade a human's body because the human body does not have software to read the code....a computer program is needed to decypher the code (like the Matrix.....it decyphers the code when a person is jacked into it).
I'm sure you've all played ROMs on your computer with an emulator......why won't roms work without an emulator?.....the code is there for the game....so why won't it just play? It won't because you need the program installed on your computer that decyphers this code...this program is called an emulator.
An easy analogy: Smith is a Rom.......the Matrix is an emulator.....Smith can exist in the Matrix because it decyphers the code for his program. He however can not exist in a real world because the human body does not have an emulator program to decypher his code...it has no programs at all......it has only a brain and nerves in which information travels throughout the body.
Evil Dead,
Although I agree with you that Zion is part of the Matrix, I do not agree with your logic in this arguement. (If you re-read your agrument closely, you've actually contradicted yourself) The movie has already demonstrated that "programs" can be downloaded into the human brain (Neo "learns" Kung Fu, and Trinity "learns" to fly a chopper). Therefore, it is a logical progression to assume that therefore ANY "program" can be downloaded into the mind. In this case, the program happens to be Smith, not Kung Fu. The Smith/Bane issue was a major problem for me, until I thought about it this way.
However, there are still many other unexplained clues as to why I think Zion is part of the Matrix.
Laws of physics!!! What about a Hovercraft? Do we even know if they are possible. This film is Science-FICTION.
The Agents are not AI WHAT???? Are you mad?
The Agents are a sentient program that can take over the body of anyone still hardwired to the Matrix. Sentient = Aware. So if they are aware, they are intelligent as they have to be to do the things they do. It is ARTIFICIAL Intelligence. Your explanation of them unable to take over the human mind is both non-sensical and wrong as it explains otherwise in both movies.
Madden 2002 or whatever, NPCs are all AI. They only do what they are meant to do, but they learn what you're GOING to do and how you're going to do it within the confines of the game. Smith is now free...but not free. He was compelled to stay and compelled to disobey...FREE WILL!!! Not to mention he also uses the word "aware" 🙂
The system isn't AI. It is thousands upon thousands of programs built upon each other which is built upon a substructure. How is that AI?
2nd: The Architect say's to Neo: To disseminate the CODE you carry...
Well if his mind is carrying code, why again isn't it possible for other code (ie Smith - Virus) to take over the mind of somebody in the real world?
3rd: I will say it again, Smith is a Virus!!!
He spreads, he multiplies, he infects and he destroys. Watch the first film and the conversation that Smith has with the captured Morpheus as I said in my previous post.
4th: Smith in the first film showed that he wanted to get out of "this place" cause he hated the smell 🙂 Well he has infact done that by uploading himself to Bane's Body. One of the reasons he was cutting himself was to feel pain for the first time.
The Agents want the codes to Zion so they don't have to be there. It is all a charade created by the machines to make them believe they are doing something different. That is why what Neo believes in fundamentally different from anything the machines have encoutered before. They make them believe they are doing something which will save Zion when in fact they are just "Following Orders" and "Doing as they are told". Neo realised this unlike the OTHER "Ones", he truly IS "The One".
I'm sorry Evil Dead, you're trying to contradict other people's posts when yours don't make any sense.
Actually I did not contradict myself............we covered this yesterday. If you notice.......all programs that are downloaded (Trinity flying chopper, Neo doing Kung Fu) take place INSIDE of a computer program. Trinity flies the chopper in the Matrix........Neo does Kung Fu inside of a training construct program............hmmmm......'tis because the human brain does not have software to decypher binary code, but computer programs do (see my ROM/emulator analogy again). The brain can remember what the code is........but the code itself can only be decyphered by a computer program which has the software to to apply the code to produce the intended results. We have never.....I stress NEVER seen anybody use information that was downloaded into them inside of the "real world".........they can't do it because even if they know the binary code for the program, the human body has no .exe programs to decypher the code and execute them, all it has is a brain and some nerves to transmit electrical impulses.
The reason why you die when you die in the matrix is because it destroys your mind. Like Morpheous said "Your mind makes it real."So if Smith copied himself onto bane. Banes mind would have made it real and he took smiths concoius to the real world. The real world is real too.If you want to hear a good thery look for posts from matrixknower.
Originally posted by Kes
Thay need them to take the minds that are not sure of whats going on. That feel that the world is not real.
As for the law of physics...ah...watch the movie.The plug in the back of the head is enough! Thats si-fi!
Ummm...no it's not, it's actually been done.
Go to
http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/new_phil_warwick.html
and read the essay.
In it you will read...
" So what about the practical realities of the brain port? I myself have, as reported in ‘I, Cyborg,’ had a 100-pin port that allowed for both signal input and output connected into my central nervous system. In one experiment conducted while I was in New York City, signals from my brain, transmitted via the Internet, operated a robot hand in the UK. Meanwhile, signals transmitted onto my nervous system were clearly recognisable in my brain. A brain port, along the lines of that in the Matrix, is not only a scientific best guess for the future; I am working on such a port now, and it will be with us within a decade at most.With the port connected into my nervous system, my brain was directly connected to a computer and thence on to the network."
So...it's not as "sci-fi" as you think it is!
Originally posted by Evil Dead
We have never.....I stress NEVER seen anybody use information that was downloaded into them inside of the "real world"....
That doesn't mean they don't still possess that information in their brains. Morpheus tested Neo's knowledge of Kung Fu in the training program, because he was trying to teach Neo how to bend the rules of the Matrix. Neo still may (and probably does) know Kung Fu, when he's not "plugged in," he just has never been in a situation where he needs to use it. Otherwise, (since you like analogies) Neo would have to have the Kung Fu program downloaded each time he needed Kung Fu, just like you have to run Microsoft Word each time you want to create a word document.
Originally posted by Evil Dead
Actually I did not contradict myself............we covered this yesterday. If you notice.......all programs that are downloaded (Trinity flying chopper, Neo doing Kung Fu) take place INSIDE of a computer program. Trinity flies the chopper in the Matrix........Neo does Kung Fu inside of a training construct program............hmmmm......'tis because the human brain does not have software to decypher binary code, but computer programs do (see my ROM/emulator analogy again). The brain can remember what the code is........but the code itself can only be decyphered by a computer program which has the software to to apply the code to produce the intended results. We have never.....I stress NEVER seen anybody use information that was downloaded into them inside of the "real world".........they can't do it because even if they know the binary code for the program, the human body has no .exe programs to decypher the code and execute them, all it has is a brain and some nerves to transmit electrical impulses.
They have no reason to use it outside the Matrix o those programs. But when Neo says 'I know Kung Fu' he is very much awake. He just has that think stuck in is brain. Is not in any program.
As for the essay I know what you are talking about. But thats a big jump. I know most times reality follows si-fi. But we are not there yet.
I'll end this. ZION IS in the real world. NEOs powers flow in and out of the Matrix. Remember what Morpheus said" the one has the power to move in and out of the matrix." Now NEO was hit by an EMP like Bane was, but that is another story right now. Go to my post at Is There More Than One Matrix and Read.
Errr where in ANY of the films have we seen them have NEED to use the programs which they have learned. Why do they have memories of all the things that happened in the Matrix if the brain can't decode it without being in there? As one of you said and Neo so adequetly put it:
"I know Kun-Fu" This was OUTSIDE the Matrix.
I don't usually say it this direct most of the time, but you ARE wrong!
Originally posted by Sifer
Oh and you say all it has is a brain? ALL IT HAS IS A BRAIN?Hrmmm, you need to do some research if you think the brain is something small and insignificant.
ALL HE HAS IS THAT THING STUCK IN IS BRAIN. BUT HE IS AWAKE.HE IS NOT IN THE PROGRAM,WHERE HE FIGHTS MORPHEOUS,NOR IS HE IN THE MATRIX.
Read what I write please.