Dryden>
Look at the “Behind the scene” thread. There’s a link to a site, with stuff from the very beginning of Revolutions. One of the technicians is looking at Neo’s life-signs while he lies in a coma, and tells Trinity that Neo’s brain waves are like those of someone jacked in.
Then Neo wakes up at Mobil Ave.
So part of Neo IS still inside the Matrix. How DOES he stop the Sentinels?
Good question. In ETM The Oracle tells us, that Neos mind touched the Source and that’s why he’s in this state. Now, Neo’s mind is his digital self in the Matrix. So, The One somehow came into contact with the Source. Neo, in the Matrix, is capable of causing fluctuations in even the simplest of programs. Now, isn’t in conceivable that he’s also caused fluctuations in the digital representation of the Source – The Machine Main-frame, the big remote control of the machine world?
At the end of Reloaded, when Morph, Link, Trin and Neo scrambles out of the Neb, Neo isn’t aware of this yet. First, however, he “senses” that the sentinels are about to release a bomb. Then, when the Sentinels draw nearer, he becomes instantly aware of himself still being jacked into the Matrix, and SEES what’s going on in the Source. He stops the machines, but the double-vision, and acting in both worlds sends him into a coma (the latter theory is compliment of Simplepriest).
This, btw., is why Neo is blindfolded in some scenes in Revolutions. To avoid collapsing again due to the impact of the double-vision.
I think that he is possibly still in the matrix at the end of the game. When Neo goes through the door, he drops off the map in the matrix (remember, the operator can't find him?). There isn't any matrix-within-the-matrix; Neo just goes into another program when he exits the door.
Why, you ask? Because the Architect knows that the only time Neo can be killed is when he thinks he doesn't have superpowers. Remember how he came back to life when Trinity said Neo had to be the one because she loved him? In the same way, when Neo finds out that he is still inside a program, he knows that he can't be killed.
I still think that the humans have already won the war. You see, if the first One successfully destroyed the robots, he would have realized the danger in freeing six billion people from the Matrix. It just wouldn't be feasible. Anyway, why unplug the 99% who believe that they are living in the real world? Why spoil it for them and force them to live in a world of ruin?
So the first One decides the best thing to do is to continue the Matrix. Of course, the anomalies are still in the Matrix and would destroy it had they the chance. So that 1% are still allowed to exit the Matrix if they wish to.
Then comes the moral issue: What happens when Zion gets full? When it can't hold anymore people, Zion's citizens will try to make new settlements on the surface, and would discover that humans run the world above. So instead of being found out, they have to kill off most of the anomalies. They pretend to be robots so there is no chance that the secret of them being humans can get out.
If this theory was correct, it would be so completely awesome in my opinion. The Wachowski brothers left us with the question, "What happens if they win the war?" Now, we are presented with, "Is it right to kill the few so that the many may live in a better world?" Just like the Wachowskis.
Or so I would assume.
Awesome theory TheOmega...explains the one thing that I could not. If the Wachowskis decided to go with the MWAM, I'd probably walk right out of the theater amid a stampede of other disappointed true Matrix fans.
The MWAM theory is what they want everybody to think, and is the most probable theory on a basic level. That is exactly why the Wachowski's won't do it.
The Wachowski's are RPG/Anime buffs at heart, so I would not doubt their willingness to stretch the rules and boundaries of the real world.
how about anyone that wants to argue with anyone sit down, hav a cookie and shut the **** up and wait till Nov. 5th. Im tired of all this argument about things that hav not even been witnessed yet. by the way, i hate spoilers. y cant we just wait till the movie comes out and be surprised. i dont want to be expecting something and then something else happens. just dont say anything at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its easy...you just ignore threads with "spoliers" i them...so calm down.. no one is forcing you to read this..hehe
I dont like spoilers either, but you cant control them so its pointless to get upset my man. I myself am probably not coming back to this forum after the 27th...I dont wanna know what happens either.
I like this theory alot! It makes sense.
However, if Neo was indeed a human, would this mean that he has powers outside of the matrix in the real world? Maybe his powers needed awakening in the matrix, and then out of the matrix. Just as Neo can enter the digital world, Smith has found a way to enter the real world. I believe that Neo and Smith are birds of a feather. One needs the other. Smith cannot die until Neo is dead. That is why he came back. What happens to Neo seems, in some strange way to be happening, indirectly to Smith.
Just having a ponder... thinking out loud...
🙂
Remember Troy and DuJour (sp?) in the first movie? Neo just wakes up and Trin hacks his computer, telling him to follow the white rabbit. Suddenly his friend (customer?) Troy knocks on the door, pays him 2 grand for a disk that says "AI Disc" on it, and then invites him to the party.
Anyway, is it possible that Troy is a ship captain? I mean, he wears all the nice leather and stuff, and made a point to get Neo to come to the party Trinity would be at. And there was no way to know that Neo would see the white rabbit on DuJour's back unless she made a conscious effort to turn around and show it to him.
I think Troy is probably a ship captain, and his friends are also his crew on whatever ship he commands. It would be awesome for Troy to show up sometime in the next movie just for the sake of making Neo say, "What the-?!?"
Neo still being plugged into the matrix as we know it is not an acceptable explanation because it would seem to show that neo and trinity's love can be faked. And that just doesn't play well. Besides a program within a program is no better than a matrix within a matrix.
Neo is not changing the source code from outside the matrix because this would require a transmitter in his brain. Which wasn’t mentioned to be in him or anyone else through the duration of the first two films. Of course, being the one and all, Neo could have some kind of ESP I suppose... they even talked about neurokenetics… I hope not though, for up until now his power was not of this nature.
I personally hope the loss of Neo's eyes is self-inflicted, ala Oedipus Rex. That is to say, Neo learns some great truth and takes out his own eyes. Possibly in that fight he has with Bane/Smith – The bane of his existence as it were. This is a story element which plays itself out to many generations of humans throughout recorded history, because it seems to appease some portion of the human psyche. And boy oh boy do the Wachowski brothers like to use that stuff.
Oh btw, TheOmega your theory about seeing double does not account for the blood around Neo’s eyes. :-P
Question: would any viewer want to see a world where topside-mankind kills 250,000,000 of its own kind every so often because they now know what it already does? For that to be an effective story element I would need Neo and his crew to go ahead and kill every one on the surface for being indifferent/bad people...and it still doesn’t explain Smith's existence in the "real world?"
Honestly Matrix Within A Matrix won’t bad if they unveil that truth to the viewer at the beginning rather than the end. ‘Cause then some other truth can be laid on top of that one. Even if it’s just MWAM, that is the way Bladerunner ended and Bladerunner rules!
Questions we theorists should be asking ourselves are: "we understand why the neo wants to stop Smith in the matrix, but we do not understand why the machines want this – Smith seems to have helped the machines by screwing up the human’s plan for a surprise counterattack.” What is Smith’s motive and why does Smith obtain neo-like powers?” Therein lies the game.
The most interesting post I’ve seen on this board is from Saddest Moon:
” I believe that Neo and Smith are birds of a feather. One needs the other. Smith cannot die until Neo is dead. That is why he came back. What happens to Neo seems, in some strange way to be happening, indirectly to Smith.”
The epic battle between humanity and machines is played out in this grouping of only two characters and is not easily resolved. For what is a machine without man? Nothing worth a damn (in the traditional sense). But what is man without his tools? (nothing special). As long as humans exist so to must the tools that define them as a species. This message is reinforced when Neo talks to an elder on the engineering level and can be seen in the fight scenes where neo alone is not able to win so he grabs a tool to help. This is the basic core theme of the trilogy and the theories on this board do little to predict out how the main theme is going to be resolved.
--Question: would any viewer want to see a world where topside-mankind kills 250,000,000 of its own kind every so often because they now know what it already does?--
I would. Why? Because it is the unexpected, and makes you not only question the motives of humanity, but to question yourself as well. Could you live with knowing you were responsible for the death of every person in the Matrix? Unlikely. But could you live with yourself knowing that you ordered the death of a quarter of a million people to save six billion? Perhaps.
Some people would say that it is worth the death of the few to save the many. However, others would say that the end does not justify the means; that there must be some other way than the systematic eradication of nearly every living being on Zion.
What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream and reality? The knowledge of those on Zion is extremely limited; they don't even know the date that humanity fell. So how would they know what is controlling the machines?
How do you know that there isn't a human behind the curtain? Unless Toto pulls back that curtain to reveal the short ugly human behind it, how will you know whether it is a machine in charge or a man behind the machine?
Psychologists have written papers and even books on the Matrix, and I am sure many of them were concerning what to do if the humans did win the war. This merely extends the question and asks it of the populace.
Whoever said the humans don’t go topside?!!?
+Morpheus has seen the vast fields where people are not born, but rather grown
+the matrix is topside and they rescue people from it
+the Osiris makes it topside for an emergency broadcast
This theory flies in the face of the first two movies and the Animatrix. It comes from left field to boot. Whereas a matrix within a matrix is much more believable because it only forces the us to believe in what we already believe -- that people accept the reality with which they are presented. And it allows for a all those in the matrix to be freed at once. It does make it slightly harder to think about existence as meaningful, because who’s to say that this time we’re in the real world. "But, how is that different from any other day."
The people in the Matrix did go topside. However, you cannot say that these people went and hung out with all the robots. They saw the sentinels, yet there was no proof in the first two movies that the source of the robotic army was not human.
Left field? Perhaps...of course, to Neo the possibility that the world he lived in was only a program probably seemed just as much from 'left field.' If that was to be the biggest surprise, the most unexpected event in the series, then why are we still watching the movies anyway?
The MWAM theory is possible, even probable. Yet it is such only when one does not consider the mentality of the Wachowski Brothers. The MWAM theory would have been very awesome if we hadn't been given so many hints about it in the second movie. Why make it seem so obvious when you can hold out six months and surprise the heck out of the populace in one fell swoop? Why give hints so that the realization of the MWAM comes slowly, when you can fool everybody until the end, and leave 99% of moviegoers crapping their pants while staring dumbfounded at the screen.
The Wachowskis--whether intentional or not--presented us with a "Lady and the Tiger" issue in the first movie. In other words, what happens when Neo finally ends the whole war? Does he unplug six billion people and let them go topside, or keep them in the Matrix and essentially become just like those who he fought for so long to stop. With such an opportunity to further delve into that question at their disposal, do you really think they would avoid it?
In the story "The Lady and the Tiger," a woman is essentially given the choice of seeing her lover married to another woman, or killing him. The ending, however, is not given. Because of this, it makes the question something that each of us must answer on our own.
Would you be able to order the death of a quarter million people to save six billion? Could you live with yourself, knowing that you are essentially continuing a pattern of destruction that by its nature must continue to preserve humanity itself? Or would you risk it all to do the "right thing," and hold off annhilation in an effort to find a better way for your fellow humans?
Everyone must answer this question himself...heck, the Wachowski's may not even answer that question in this movie. Instead, they may give the choice to Neo himself...stop the death of hundreds of thousands and risk the death of billions, or join those he has sworn to destroy; then leave us hanging. If I was them, that's what I'd do...but hey, I'm on the whole other side of the screen.
Also, to answer deathvegetable...the battle against the Agents themselves was never what got me into the movies...it was the movie in its entirety. If it did not give a psychological aspect alongside the psysical, then the series would lack whatever it has that has allowed it to gross over 1.2 billion dollars so far.
We know the deal with Smith...or whatever we've been told so far. Smith is multiplying (strange that he is the one that multiplies, spreads until every resource [disk space or whatever] is gone and then goes elsewhere, just like he described humans in the first move. Btw, I've even heard a theory that Smith himself is possibly the only human in the Matrix, and that he is actually trying to destroy it to free himself from a program that has enslaved him. But I don't really think it holds much water.), Neo cuts a deal with the robots to get rid of Smith, and the battle is on. Though things in this aspect may not be as they seem, what we have been given thus far about the Neo/Smith battle really seems to lack much room for discussion...we have insufficient information to come up with any cool theories.