If you look at sec.ren.II you will see that at least two times the architect & oracle came to the humans to make peace.
the robots that came to make peace were tore apart... the architect was not the machine with the apple... i'm not sure what made you think that. there is no evidence to support that...
Sure there is. The Machines that came were embasedors from the machine nation.
As I stated before if you notice the male machine(The architect Physical form at that time.) was holding a red apple right before they were destroyed.
Then When you saw the red apple again it was sitting on the desk next to the Black sentinal type machine who was passing judgement on mankind. If you notice it was the Architect demanding that all the humans give up their flesh. The physical form for the architect at that time was the Black machind sitting behind the desk. He was writing with the laser beam that made a type of bar code. And as stated before the apple was sitting next to the note pad to let you know that both machines/programs, were one in the same.
I hope this is not over your head. But understand that the two first Robots were the architect & oracle affering peace to the humans.
The machine shell dosent matter. It was the programs that were running the show.
Heres an example of what I mean.
Say you just went out and brought windows XP and a new P.C kit.
You would install win-Xp on the new pc kit right?
Right.
So your new pc qwould be runing win-xp.
Now lets just say your pc's hard drive got fried, and had to be replaced.
You would go out and get another hard drive, and then place win-xp on it since that is the OS you were using on your old HD.
The samething happened to the architect & oracle. The first time they went to the humans there phyiscal form was destoyed, but not there programing. They were still safe at M1 calling all the shots.
Now do you get it?
but how do you know that was the architect? when neo went to see the architect he was not holding an apple. what the hell does the apple have to do with the architect... and what makes that guy holding the apple the architect? and the architect never called any shots he just built the matrix. your just telling me that its true... please where is the evidence!! and there is no reason to be condescending
Urot>>...OK...I understand the storyline perfectly well....the apple ur referring to is simply a symbol that represents the "apple of knowledge". In the special features commentaries, the designer of Ren 1&2 makes reference to that...dunno what the apple had anything to do w what I said really!...😕
Secondly, I know the Architect and the Oracle were in on it together at the beginning,but the two robot figures were NOT the Oracle and the Architect ❌...those two robots that went to try to establish some peace w humans and ask for the rights of 01 nation, were simply the ambassadors sent to voice for the machine population!
Thirdly, in M2, the Architect makes reference to having initially entrusted the Oracle w the task of improving his understanding on how the human race works...given his subsequent failures on creating a long lasting Matrix......He used her as an "intuitive" program....which of course led her to feel a certain afinity for humans.....that is why the architect doesn't look highly upon her!....Get me now? 😉
you can't just assume that those two robots are the architect and the oracle. in fact, unless they state otherwise, we should assume that they aren't. that's like me assuming tank was gay just because we never saw him have sex with a woman in m1.
Originally posted by -=Urot=-
If you noticed in M2 when neo was talking to the Architect. The architect stated that he was the father of the Matrix, and that the Oracle was it mother.
no, he never said the oracle was the mother. his one word in reference to the oracle was, "please." you can assume all you want, but you know what our mothers always said about assuming . . .
Urot> Sorry, man, but there is ZERO evidence for the Architect and Oracle figuring in any Animatrix whatsoever.
The machine ambassadors in Renaissance I&II were envoys from Zero-1. We don’t know their names, but they were destroyed. The apple in question is seen rotting.
The black sentinel-type machine was just “a black sentinel-type” machine. I can’t see any resemblance to the Architect whatsoever. Where is the resemblance?
That an apple had once again returned, doesn’t prove anything but this “There was an apple at the scene in the UN. There is an apple at the desk of the black sentinel.” I don’t know if you realised that the UN building was blown up after the signing?
So all you prove is that you BELIEVE those two robots are the Architect and Oracle.
And installing Windows XP is a little different from an individual AI surviving destruction.
Well I reread the conversation between Neo and the Architect.
You all may be right. I guess we will see in NOV.
Oh and heres part of that conversation.
Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it, Based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, and intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.Neo: The Oracle
NOTE 3: Based upon the Architect’s response (SEE BELOW), the Oracle may not be the “Mother” of the Matrix. Perhaps it is Persephone. Monica Belucci states in an interview that her character is like an emotional vampire. She’s not human but she likes to consume human emotional experiences. This is evidenced in the movie when she asks to kiss Neo. And someone online stated that her character is supposed to have a larger role in the next film. This might jive with the Architect’s description of the “Mother” as “initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.” However, it seems from the Architect’s tone that what he might have objected to was not the suggestion that the Oracle is the “Mother” he is speaking of, but rather his objection is to Neo’s human naïve and mystical beholding of her as an “Oracle.” In this case, the Architect was just objecting to the title “Oracle.” This scenario would also seem to jive for 2 reasons. First, her function as the Oracle is one of “intuition” about humankind and their choices, and the Architect refers to the “Mother” as an intuitive program. Second, the Oracle used much of the same language as the Architect including the idea that Neo’s choices had already been made.
Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an near unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refuse the program while a minority if unchecked would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
NOTE 4: The anomaly in the system is created by giving those in the system choice, even very minor choice. Those that refused the system even when given a choice will cause disaster if they are not contained or “kept in check” by the machines. Notice also that the Architect says "those that refuse the program." This is based upon his previous assertion that, "nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice." This seems to indicate that according to the Architect, the 1% who don't accept the program, reject the program EVEN when they are given a choice. Are we to believe that this 1% don't accept one program even when given a choice but then turn around and accept another programmed reality with no problem? The problem with this group seems to be that they reject programmed reality EVEN when it includes a choice. This seems to indicate quite clearly that the Zion world cannot be another Matrix, for if it were this 1% would not accept it. To suggest that they reject one programmed reality while accepting a second seems to contradict the dialog.
Originally posted by nickjs21
you can't just assume that those two robots are the architect and the oracle. in fact, unless they state otherwise, we should assume that they aren't. that's like me assuming tank was gay just because we never saw him have sex with a woman in m1.LOL 😂
no, he never said the oracle was the mother. his one word in reference to the oracle was, "please." you can assume all you want, but you know what our mothers always said about assuming . . .
Originally posted by The Omega
And installing Windows XP is a little different from an individual AI surviving destruction.
Omega I was just using that example to show that the programing would have survived if they were using the robot bodies as remote controled devices. Kinda like R.C. mini racers. The body could have been destoyed, but the programing survived, because it was being transmitted to the robots shells. So weather it blow itself up or was destoyed by hunams hands the prograning was still safe in zero one.
And after looking at Res II 1 & 2 again it was the female machine holding the apple in her left hand. Then again after the black sentinal machine passed judgement on the hunmans it was holding the apple in the same hand. Now I dont know if the apple just a sign of knowledge, but if it was shown three times the W.brothers were trying to make a point.
Now after rereading the conversation between Neo and The Architect I find their commentary very interesting concerning the topic of the Mother of the matrix.
On one hand The Architect states that that he needed a a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. So the Job of finding the problem was left to the so called Oracle an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.
One one hand The Architect stated that "If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother." She being the Oracle.
Then Neo says the Oracle.
The Architect says "Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an near unconscious level."
Without the Oracle the Matrix failed and the Architect knew that. The Architect didn't want to really give credit to her because he thinks too highly of himself.
Heres an example to back up what I just said.
Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it, Based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, and intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
He thinks he's God and therefore making him perfect in every way. He really dosent want to highlight his failures, but inorder to be factual he stated them. Then he puts the blame of his failure on the humans saying it was due to "a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, due to their grotesqueries of human nature".
Heres one of the possible answers to the question of who the mother of the Matrix is.
NOTE 3: Based upon the Architect’s response (SEE BELOW), the Oracle may not be the “Mother” of the Matrix. Perhaps it is Persephone. Monica Belucci states in an interview that her character is like an emotional vampire. She’s not human but she likes to consume human emotional experiences. This is evidenced in the movie when she asks to kiss Neo. And someone online stated that her character is supposed to have a larger role in the next film. This might jive with the Architect’s description of the “Mother” as “initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche.” However, it seems from the Architect’s tone that what he might have objected to was not the suggestion that the Oracle is the “Mother” he is speaking of, but rather his objection is to Neo’s human naïve and mystical beholding of her as an “Oracle.” In this case, the Architect was just objecting to the title “Oracle.” This scenario would also seem to jive for 2 reasons. First, her function as the Oracle is one of “intuition” about humankind and their choices, and the Architect refers to the “Mother” as an intuitive program. Second, the Oracle used much of the same language as the Architect including the idea that Neo’s choices had already been made.
Originally posted by nickjs21
urot: far too many side notes. focus, man.
I'm focused Man!! 😄
Oh and here is the whole conversation between the Architect and Neo.
EDIT: Darn it No HTML Code Allowed. 🙁
Oh well heres the site.
Urot> Sure. IF the robots were remote-controlled shells for some AI’s, and not the actual carriers of the AI’s. We don’t know that. Apples have many meanings. We know it from the stories in the Bible about the apple of knowledge, in Snowwhite, in “an apple a day keep the doctor away (IF you can hit him that is!)”.
In the UN building the apple is a sign of friendship. The sentinel-type judge then also has an apple. Sure it means something.
But it does nothing to prove that those robots were The Architect and the Oracle. Why do you think they are?
There is no question, that the Architect is the “father” of the Matrix (or Matrices 1.0 and 2.0), the designer, the constructor.
We don’t KNOW who the mother is/was. The Architect scoffs at the name, but it may just be the name humans have given her. Maybe her real name is “6876AHJK-HGJHH/2”. All we do know, is that the mother is a psychic program (which rules out Persephone, who’s an emotional program).
But once again, that is completely irrelevant to whether or not tje two robots in the UN building were the Oracle and Architect. You still haven't told us why they should be.
Originally posted by The Omega
But once again, that is completely irrelevant to whether or not tje two robots in the UN building were the Oracle and Architect. You still haven't told us why they should be.
I just have a gut feeling about this one Omega. I know a gut feeling is not proof, but its what im going with at the moment. In Ren II they really dont give you a timeline so my theory could be possible.
Hey if im wrong no big deal. But if Im right you all must BOW DOWN BEFORE YOUR GOD! LORD UROT!!! MUhahaha!!!!
*** Ok im doing tripping. ***
Omega I guess we will find out the truth in Nov. 🙂
Urot> Ohhhh, a GUT-feeling. Then here’s another question: How do you know Renaissance I & II are real? They’e from the Zion database, and that one has had sentinel visitors at least five times.
IF they’re actual facts, the stories of Ren I&II happened 600 years ago.
Deal. IF you’re right I’ll get that worshipping smilie, renounce Kes (who’s currently my deity for supplying me with pictures of Keanu), and make a thread solely to celebrate your glory.
🙂
Originally posted by The Omega
Urot> Ohhhh, a GUT-feeling. Then here’s another question: How do you know Renaissance I & II are real? They’e from the Zion database, and that one has had sentinel visitors at least five times.
IF they’re actual facts, the stories of Ren I&II happened 600 years ago.
Mmmm.....Couldn't that have happened 600 ys. ago?...Morpheus did suggest that they were somewhere in the future...Whether his calculations of how much that time was, could've right or wrong, is not in question....but it could very well have been 600 years...no?