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Superman and Flash vs Jugs , and Hulk

all are at normal level
no war-hulk , pre , 8th or any other shit.

interesting...

i wonder if flash is strong enough to hurt juggs or the hulk (i believe he is... but not 100% sure)

Speed and Power vs. Power and More Power, eh?

Leaning towards Flash and Supes, though. They've worked together before. But then again so have Juggy and Hulk. I suppose they could ignore Flash and beat up on Superman. Juggernaut's nigh invincible to pain or injury, Flash would be like a mosquito without the itchy bite. Hulk's tough enough to take a nuke, so he could take a hundred or so human strength punches and keep moving.

Man, Flash and Superman are fast though.

well speed can help in different ways lol to make them trip , water , acid , etc

to disturb while superman fights themetc.

i don't think he can hurt them tho

Hulk, and Jugs are immune to injure from such attacks such as flash.

but he can be big help for superman

If Jugs or Hulk manage to lay a hit on Flash, (which would be pretty damn hard to do,) he's through. Hey, If Hulk or Juggernaut causes an earthquake, causing Flash to fall, or lifting him off of the ground, He'd be defenseless. Hulk's thunderclap could also be used to knock out Flash.

But they also have Superman to worry about.

I take Flash & Supes on this one...
We all know what Superman could do to the 2 of them, here's a couple of things Flash could do.

1)In 'Flash:Blitz', his enemy Zoom, was able to super-speedily snap his fingers, creating a sonic boom in the direction that he'd snap it in. He used it to break through things etc. I don't know if Flash would be able to do the same (due to his powers being of diff. origin, 'The Speed Force'), but maybe.

2)Flash can allow his molecular structure to pass through objects, and after passing it causes w/e he passed through to explode, due to the object being supercharged with chaotic energy.

3)Lol, he could throw something really really really fast at them. Lol

If Flash was fighting Super Gorilla Grodd with 3 broken ribs and still knocked him out, why do you guys suggest that one punch would be enough? He even took a beating from Zoom and those were hard punches.

How strong can a super gorilla be? Compared to Hulk and Juggernaut.

Flash goes down if hulk or Juggs gets a hit in which will not be easy. How would something hitting the hulk or juggs at near lightspeed affect them, im not too familiar with these guys. Superman could distract while flash throws stuff at super high velocities.

Flash could vibrate through at least Hulk, but apparently not Juggernaut (Flash vs. Juggernaut thread). I don't know what exactly it takes to stop Juggernaut, but Flash and Superman would be a good start.

Neither Hulk or Juugs could hit Flash, he could run around them fast enough to create a vortex and pull em off the ground. As both Hulk and Jugs are retarded, Supes/Flash get an other advantage here. Flash could incapacitate Hulk for a moment with his vortex, or simply by anoying him with tiny slaps behind the head while Supes disposes of Juggs (not saying it would be THAT easy and quick but somawhat easy and fairly quick) and than proceed to take on the Hulk. Problem lies here, Flash already pissed off Hulk with his ***** slaping behind the head, so we get a already P.O'ed Hulk facing Supes. As i said in the Supes vs Hulk thread, hard to tell who would win, but im going with Supes and Flash on this one nonetheless.

Can't believe i would one day pick Flash over Hulk...ugh...

Flash would pass his molecules through the Hulk's, make him explode, and him and Supes would go on to face Juggernaut.

The Flash can cause objects to explode. He cannot cause people to explode. If Flash could simply do that, he could beat anyone, Darksied and Doomsday included. And even if he could, that doesn't mean he can make Hulk explode. Hulk's body is virtually indestructable, he can absorb energy, (that's how he became Hulk,) and he can heal from being blasted to gamma irradiated cells. Hulk is no longer the "Hulk Smash" Hulk of the 50's-90's. He now retains Bruce's intellect.

It still seems like Superman and Flash will win though.

Comparing Gorilla Grodd to Juggy and Hulk? Hah.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube


Comparing Gorilla Grodd to Juggy and Hulk? Hah.

Grodd does have telepathic powers...

But strenghtwise...Grodd is loser compared to Juggy and Hulk.

Flash cannot realistically do anything to Juggy bottom line. Now Supe and Hulk that's a stalemate. So Flash is not getting any help from Supe in the meantime. Juggy is an UNSTOPPABLE FORCE!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The Flash can cause objects to explode. He cannot cause people to explode. If Flash could simply do that, he could beat anyone, Darksied and Doomsday included. And even if he could, that doesn't mean he can make Hulk explode. Hulk's body is virtually indestructable, he can absorb energy, (that's how he became Hulk,) and he can heal from being blasted to gamma irradiated cells. Hulk is no longer the "Hulk Smash" Hulk of the 50's-90's. He now retains Bruce's intellect.

It still seems like Superman and Flash will win though.

Comparing Gorilla Grodd to Juggy and Hulk? Hah.

Hulk's body is not an object?

If Flash made everyone he faced explode, don't you think his comics would get a little gross?

Hulk's ability to absorb energy has nothing to do with his ability to survive the kind of attack Flash would use. Hulk's body might be "virtually indestructable", but he's never had something vibrate THROUGH him at near lightspeed. He's the first one out in this battle.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
The Flash can cause objects to explode. He cannot cause people to explode. If Flash could simply do that, he could beat anyone, Darksied and Doomsday included. And even if he could, that doesn't mean he can make Hulk explode. Hulk's body is virtually indestructable, he can absorb energy, (that's how he became Hulk,) and he can heal from being blasted to gamma irradiated cells. Hulk is no longer the "Hulk Smash" Hulk of the 50's-90's. He now retains Bruce's intellect.

It still seems like Superman and Flash will win though.

Comparing Gorilla Grodd to Juggy and Hulk? Hah.


People ARE objects, what are you talking about?

Originally posted by LordFear
Flash cannot realistically do anything to Juggy bottom line. Now Supe and Hulk that's a stalemate. So Flash is not getting any help from Supe in the meantime. Juggy is an UNSTOPPABLE FORCE!!!!!!!

Superman and Hulk is no stalemate. Supes or Flash take him out relatively easily.

*Sigh* Do you really have to say that in caps? It makes it sound even more ridiculous. I wish I had read more comics with Juggernaut since he seems to come up all the time on this board. I find it hard to believe that he is an UNSTOPPABLE FORCE!!!!!!! Has he been beaten by anyone? If so, how? If not, why do people bother putting him in battles at all?

Originally posted by Hegemon875
People ARE objects, what are you talking about?

Like I said...

Well Juggy was stopped dead by War Hulk...and then knocked out (I think) by Onslaught after being hit a few hundred miles...(so sue me I fergit if it was to Canada or whatever)

besides that...I've no real knowledge of Juggy 'cept he's vulnerable to psychic attacks unless his helmets on.

I wasn't comparing Super Gorilla Grodd to Juggernaut or Hulk, I was pointing out Flash's stamina. Now Zoom can hit as hard as Hulk or Juggernaut because speed kills and Flash was taking his hits.

Speed doesn't always equal hard hits. If a mosquio hits you in the face moving at light speed, it's not gonna hurt much (well, probably). If Flash had super strength, it would be a different story. Speed kills? If that were true, Flash would be the most powerful superhero ever.

The fact that Flash hit someone so hard that they went around the world twice and ended up in Africa mean nothing to you? And tornadoes make grass go through wood and other material. Now imagine grass traveling in light speed.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Speed doesn't always equal hard hits. If a mosquio hits you in the face moving at light speed, it's not gonna hurt much (well, probably). If Flash had super strength, it would be a different story. Speed kills? If that were true, Flash would be the most powerful superhero ever.

No offense dude, but that just shows you don't fully understand light speed or what comes with it.

A mosquito moving at light speed, hitting you in the face would kill you.

Originally posted by nigel45
No offense dude, but that just shows you don't fully understand light speed or what comes with it.

A mosquito moving at light speed, hitting you in the face would kill you.

Really? Then why doesn't Flash just run into people and kill them?

I'm sorry, I meant a mosquito hitting Hulk or Juggernaut in the face. I'll bet the person Flash hit wasn't as powerful as Juggernaut or Hulk. A tornado is not powerfuil enough to embedd grass into wood. A blade of grass would be ripped apart and dissapate before it could reach such velocity. Besides, doesn't Flash have to accelerate to light speed? As far as I've seen, he does.

At any rate, Speed is not absolute.

I've read someone say that grass thing in another thread and they said they saw it. And Flash killing people in his comic? He's not a murderer.

I don't mean killing regular people. Why doesn't he kill Darksied? Or why didn't he kill Doomsday instead of letting Superman die?

"I don't mean killing regular people. Why doesn't he kill Darksied? Or why didn't he kill Doomsday instead of letting Superman die?"

simple he can't

if someone were to true move at light speed in reality they whould be unstable but in the comic world that can move at light speed.

Say Silver Surfer can move far beyond light speed have we seen him kill people by doing what flash does???

NO

Why? well surfer has too many power and writers can't use them all.
but flash is all about speed put all his attack on speed.

But Jugs and HUlk , both can survive nuclear Explosion , Flash hit can't go beyond that so .

Flash can't really do fast other that what i said early trip , disturb , acid , etc. all day.

Originally posted by kgkg
"I don't mean killing regular people. Why doesn't he kill Darksied? Or why didn't he kill Doomsday instead of letting Superman die?"

simple he can't

if someone were to true move at light speed in reality they whould be unstable but in the comic world that can move at light speed.

Say Silver Surfer can move far beyond light speed have we seen him kill people by doing what flash does???

NO

Why? well surfer has too many power and writers can't use them all.
but flash is all about speed put all his attack on speed.

But Jugs and HUlk , both can survive nuclear Explosion , Flash hit can't go beyond that so .

Flash can't really do fast other that what i said early trip , disturb , acid , etc. all day.

The impact from an object at light speed is far greater than a nuke, an object at light speed as infinite or near infinte mass.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
A blade of grass would be ripped apart and dissapate before it could reach such velocity.

Youre right but the flash can protect an object from being damaged by acceleration.

"The impact from an object at light speed is far greater than a nuke, an object at light speed as infinite or near infinte mass."

not true

first no solid object can move at speed of light , to do so you will have mass of 0. At at zero mass you ain't hurting nobody.

only Gamma and higher radiation can move after.

But it's been proven than Solid Objects can't travel faster than light.

Well in the comic anything is posible i have never seen do flash hit someone that can do more damage that a nuke.

Logically, Flash's inertial mass would increase as he approaches light speed, not his mass. Still, it would not increase to infinity. However that is... well, strange. I though the speed force stopped Flash from gaining mass? If his mass became infinity, he would have the gravitational pull greater than that of a black hole. He'd collapse upon himself. I've had a hard time believing the "infinity mass punch" theory. If his mass is infinity, how is he strong enough to raise his arm?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Logically, Flash's inertial mass would increass as he approaches light speed, not his mass. However that is... well, strange. I though the speed force stopped Flash from gaining mass? If his mass became infinity, he would have the gravitational pull greater than that of a black hole. He'd collapse upon himself. I've had a hard time believing the "infinity mass punch" theory. If his mass is infinity, how is he strong enough to raise his arm?


the speed force works in mysterious ways. lol

Doesn't the speed force protect Flash from all of the effects of traveling at light speed?

yeah but you brought up a point that is a contradiction and I cant think of an explanation

You're very straightforward and honest.

In the comic book, do they specifically say that Flash performs a "Infinity mass punch?" He could have just knocked the hell out of the guy.

edit

Originally posted by nigel45
Hulk's body is not an object?

If Flash made everyone he faced explode, don't you think his comics would get a little gross?

Hulk's ability to absorb energy has nothing to do with his ability to survive the kind of attack Flash would use. Hulk's body might be "virtually indestructable", but he's never had something vibrate THROUGH him at near lightspeed. He's the first one out in this battle.

Charging an object and charging living organic matter are two entirely different things. (e.g. Gambit.) Has Flash ever vibrated through a PERSON before and caused them to explode?

edit

Originally posted by Draco69
He used on Zum. Or rather a White Martian in disguise. The poor dude was knocked into the stratosphere and traveled around the world twice at 7 miles per second before landing in Africa.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Well, then you must not be very learned then!

I spent some time in the mid-west in 2004 (when the tornados were raging through Oklahoma and Kansas). Let me tell you what those twisters did.
They took grass and straw, and drove it THROUGH WOODEN DOORS!
It was insane.
After the storm there were grass blades jutting out of some doors.

If a twister can do that, what the heck can something moving at light speed do.

With sufficient speed a small object can cause amazing damage (our anti-missile defence system has a velocity kill vehicle that has no explosive. It uses sheer kinetic energy to destroy incoming nuclear warheads. It basically hits the incoming nuke at high mach speed, totally disintegrating the enemy warhead into cosmic dust. It literally atomizes the target, with nothing but a small object moving at amazing speed).

Imagine what the Flash could do?

And grass has killed people unfortunate enough to be in the midst of a twister. And these blades of grass and straw were not even going faster than 250mph. Imagine a blade of grass, protected by the speed force so it doesn't burn up, travelling at a fraction the speed of light towards Storm's cranium? Imagine a field of grass heading up towards her.
Remember the Flash can impart the speed force to objects, and he is fast enough to literally rip up every blade of grass in a several mile area and throw them up at Storm (in JLA:Trial by Fire he rescued an entire city by picking up people in ones and twos, and evacuating them miles away, in a fraction of a second while a nuclear detonation occured. He rescued 500,000 people in 0.001 of a second. If he can do that it would be nothing to pick up hundreds of thousands blades of grass and turning Storm into a mutant pincushion).

Those two quotes should be enough. Putting grass through Hulk and Juggernaut's eyes is gonna hurt.

Yeowch that would be painful

Not exactly. There's still the issue of the density and composition of Hulks flesh, and his healing factor. The blade of grass might pierce wood, steel, etc., other hard substances, but Hulk's hide is more dextrous and would absorb the impact different. Like the difference between shooting a block of wood with a machine gun, and then shooting a impact absorbing, self correcting mound of tissue with the same machine gun.

like i said Flash is not gonna win agaisn't jugs , and Hulk.

But his speed will be a big factor for superman.

Against Jugs? No. Against Hulk? Sure.

Vibration or infinite mass punch.

that's just gonna piss him off.

i can't say how much damage infinite mass punch. can do .

can you give me a comic book refrence that he took someone stong , remember hulk skin is hard , and he heal superman fast.

even if it's hurt that's just gonna piss him off.

if Flash can knock Hulk out with it then i don't see him loosing to anyone at all .

I mean it will take someone like SS then .

Originally posted by kgkg
that's just gonna piss him off.

i can't say how much damage infinite mass punch. can do .

can you give me a comic book refrence that he took someone stong , remember hulk skin is hard , and he heal superman fast.

even if it's hurt that's just gonna piss him off.

if Flash can knock Hulk out with it then i don't see him loosing to anyone at all .

I mean it will take someone like SS then .

The vibration will make the Hulk explode. And not in a good way.

The Flash used the technique against a White Martian (i.e. Superman class durability) The poor guy circled around the earth twice at 7 miles per second before landing with a huge explosion in Africa. The Flash plainly said "I could hit him a thousand times before he blinks...once ought to do it." A thousand times infinite punch? Ouch.

well if that's true than he can take the entire JLA himself then?

no one can react if his going at light speed and making people exlode seems like bad writing to me.

The Flash could probably take the JLA on himself if he went crazy and evil and used his powers to the max.

Vibration makes things explode. Don't know why but the Flash does make it happen.

How come Flash makes junk explode but Bart doesn't?

If the Martian circled the Earth twice and crashed in Africa, he didn't explode on impact from the punch, it was the landing that caused the explosion. Also, if Hulk is flying through the air at 7 miles per second because someone just punched him, and after a minute he'd have travelled only 420 miles, by the time he comes down he'll have been airborne for at least 20 minutes, all the while getting extremely pissed to the point where when he descends to the ground after the momentum where's off, he'd either hop up and come back for more or have corrected his trajectory in flight to land safely.

I didn't say the punch made him explode. I said vibration would. The punch was just really f'ing powerful.

Originally posted by Kento
How come Flash makes junk explode but Bart doesn't?

He can now as Kid Flash. As Impulse he couldn't because he had massive A.D.D.

As Impulse he could vibrate thru stuff just like Flash, however Flash blew stuff up, and Impulse didn't.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I don't mean killing regular people. Why doesn't he kill Darksied? Or why didn't he kill Doomsday instead of letting Superman die?

These are comics, the writers aren't going to kill off some of their best villains just because they could.

I was told the IMP was something he did once against Reverse Flash and he could only do it because they were both moving at light speeds and he was siphoning off Zoom's speed.

As I said before, when has Flash caused SOMEONE (not to be confused with something,) to explode by vibrating through them? If he can just vibrate through people and make them explode, he can take the entire JLA, no question.

Why would Flash be able to vibrate through Hulk, but not Juggernaut? They are equally as durable.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
As I said before, when has Flash caused SOMEONE (not to be confused with something,) to explode by vibrating through them? If he can just vibrate through people and make them explode, he can take the entire JLA, no question.

Why would Flash be able to vibrate through Hulk, but not Juggernaut? They are equally as durable.

You say it like Flash is constantly trying to take down the entire JLA, hasn't been able to, and that is somehow proof that he doesn't have that ability.

As many people have said before, how is someTHING different than someONE? I've heard the argument about Hulk's durability, but frankly, it doesn't matter. On a molecular level, Hulk's body is not significantly different than anything else Flash has vibrated through. But apparently, as I've been told, Juggernaut has some type of forcefield, which would make that technique impossible.

Read Draco's previous post, I was replying to it. I was implying that Flash is the most powerful member of the JLA with speed alone.

Someone is definitely different than something. A block of stone is contiguous throughout. Same molecules everywhere. Organic matter is not so, it has many, many diferent types of molecules in different quantities and disparity. Living organic matter is even more different, as it's molecules are in constant motion. It would be a much different matter if he had vibrated through a person before. Gambit is a perfect example. He can charge inorganic matter, but he cannot charge living organic matter. As I have asked before, has Flash ever vibrated through someone, and caused them to explode?

Draco has told me time and time again that the Flash can vibrate through force fields, and that he has done it before.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Why would Flash be able to vibrate through Hulk, but not Juggernaut? They are equally as durable. It's not the level, it's the source. Flash can't vibrate through Superman because of his bio-field and we were theorizing that he might have similar troubles with Juggernaut's magic enhanced body.

Swanky, has Flash vibrated through someone before?

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Read Draco's previous post, I was replying to it. I was implying that Flash is the most powerful member of the JLA with speed alone.

Someone is definitely different than something. A block of stone is contiguous throughout. Same molecules everywhere. Organic matter is not so, it has many, many diferent types of molecules in different quantities and disparity. Living organic matter is even more different, as it's molecules are in constant motion. It would be a much different matter if he had vibrated through a person before. Gambit is a perfect example. He can charge inorganic matter, but he cannot charge living organic matter. As I have asked before, has Flash ever vibrated through someone, and caused them to explode?

Draco has told me time and time again that the Flash can vibrate through force fields, and that he has done it before.

Flash has more control over his molecules than we can comprehend. Living matter or not, there is no good reason that he should be incapable of passing through it. I have never seen him do so, but that fact can be attributed to a number of things. Flash has never said "I can't vibrate through living things and make them explode", and until he does, far be it from any of us to say he's incapable.

As to Flash being able to vibrate through force fields, hey, more power to him. He can take out Juggernaut the same way he takes out Hulk.

Originally posted by nigel45
Flash has more control over his molecules than we can comprehend. Living matter or not, there is no good reason that he should be incapable of passing through it. I have never seen him do so, but that fact can be attributed to a number of things. Flash has never said "I can't vibrate through living things and make them explode", and until he does, far be it from any of us to say he's incapable.

As to Flash being able to vibrate through force fields, hey, more power to him. He can take out Juggernaut the same way he takes out Hulk.

That is your opinion. Until it is proven that Flash can defeat anyone by vibrating through them, don't use the argument. If a character doesn't use a power in any of his comic books, ultimately, he doesn't possess it. Name one character that has a power that he has never used. You can't, of course. If you have a power, it shows up somewhere in one of your comics.

There also has to be a limit to what Flash can cause to explode. If Flash vibrated through a block of solid adamantium, do you think it would explode? Hulk is much more durable than any of the machinery or anything else that Flash has vibrated through. Even if flash could vibrate through Hulk, how do you know he'd explode? He's taken nukes before and walked away.

What many of the Flashes fans need to realize is that speed is not absolute. According to you, this guy should be unbeatable.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube







Actually a stone is NOT continuos, it consists of several different elements. The only way any large object can be continous is if it consists of the same element throughout and I have never seen the element rock on the periodic table of elements. On a molecular level you and I are no different than the keyboard we're typing on other than the specific molecules that are linked, basic highschool chemistry.

Not the same element, hedgemon, the same molecules. Rocks are composed of the same molecules throughout, hence they are *contiguous,* (not to be confused with continuous. That's not a typo,) On a molecular level we are far different than a keyboard or a rock or any other contiguous substance. Are keyboards composed of protiens, phospholipids, nucleic acids or any other such organic compounds? Of course not. I think you mean on an atomic level, but even then, you're way off.

The flash speeds up molecules by vibrating his own causing them to strike the molecules of an object setting off a chain reaction that causes the entire object to vibrate until exploding, remembering this why would the molecular complexity of an object alter this reaction.

Easy. Why does it take more energy to break down a covalent bond than it does to seperate an ionic bond, or a hydrogen bond. As I said contiguity matters. It would be easier for him to charge up a rock, or a machine, because rocks and most metals are simple, contiguously structured forms of matter. The molecules of organic compounds differ drastically in size, complexity, and behavior.

A more simple form of reasoning is, why hasn't he ever caused anyone to explode?

To make note, everything Flash vibrates through does not explode.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Swanky, has Flash vibrated through someone before? No clue. Doesn't sound like something a guy like Flash would do every day if he did.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Easy. Why does it take more energy to break down a covalent bond than it does to seperate an ionic bond, or a hydrogen bond. As I said contiguity matters. It would be easier for him to charge up a rock, or a machine, because rocks and most metals are simple, contiguously structured forms of matter. The molecules of organic compounds differ drastically in size, complexity, and behavior.

A more simple form of reasoning is, why hasn't he ever caused anyone to explode?

OK but this is a guy who can run at the speed of light I think he could produce sufficient energy.


He hasnt done it before because, surprise! hes a super HERO. He doesnt kill, or because its just to graphic, or because the writers just never thought of it.

If Flash has never caused anyone to explode, why should we assume he can or will do so in this fight? I am sure the writers have thought of it, but that would be overpowering Flash, wouldn't it?

Because this a hypothetical vs forum and in this forum we assume that the characters will go all out and use every ability available to them unless stated otherwise by the thread creator.

Flash has never proven that he has the power to make people explode. As I have stated and proved, people and objects are different.

The durability of the object matters as well. If Flash vibrated through a block of solid adamantium, do you think it would explode?

Yes I do and you cant say Im wrong because adamantium is NOT real and neither is the flash or any of this, which is why unless the writers expressly state the flash cannot do it and since we have seen him destroy inorganic material it is more than reasonable to assume he can kill a person.

This may be no longer true but I thought that Flash had to resist the call of the speed force every time he pulled off very powerful speed feats or ran a certain speeds. Also remember that Juggernaut was still fighting when that demon burnt him down to his skeleton when the demon had already drained about 99.9% of Jugg's power

Originally posted by Pepito
Also remember that Juggernaut was still fighting when that demon burnt him down to his skeleton when the demon had already drained about 99.9% of Jugg's power

Yeah I remember that, now that is overpowered.

You are overetimating Flash, Hedgemon. This guy you're talking about is virtually unbeatable.

Depending on it's density, Flash has had a hard time vibrating through several materials. Adamantium is the highest density metal in the universe. No way in hell he's going to make it explode, much less, vibrate through it.

You don't go by what the writers haven't said Flash can do, you go by what the writers have said that Flash can do. Hell, the writers never said Hulk couldn't beat. Does that mean he can't?

Both Hulk and Juggernaut can heal from being reduced to a skeleton, and both have done so. That doesn't make them overpowered.

The simple fact is, Flash cannot vibrate through Hulk or Juggernaut and make them explode. He hasn't done it before, and he won't do it in this fight, because he simply cannot. Eventually, (after a long ass time) he'll be knocked out, and then it's Juggernaut and Hulk vs. Superman. If not, Superman will be felled first by both Hulk and Juggernaut, and it's Flash vs. Hulk and Juggernaut. Either way, Hulk and Juggy win.

then we can say SS can do it also rite since his much much faster than flash also.

so that mean SS can beat anyone lol just by this Vibrating bullshit since he moves from galaxy to galaxy in seconds at his full power he can make anyone explode.

I really don't like this idea , of Exploding people by moving in makes no Scientific sence.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
You are overetimating Flash, Hedgemon. This guy you're talking about is virtually unbeatable.

Depending on it's density, Flash has had a hard time vibrating through several materials. Adamantium is the highest density metal in the universe. No way in hell he's going to make it explode, much less, vibrate through it.

You don't go by what the writers haven't said Flash can do, you go by what the writers have said that Flash can do. Hell, the writers never said Hulk couldn't beat. Does that mean he can't?

Both Hulk and Juggernaut can heal from being reduced to a skeleton, and both have done so. That doesn't make them overpowered.

The simple fact is, Flash cannot vibrate through Hulk or Juggernaut and make them explode. He hasn't done it before, and he won't do it in this fight, because he simply cannot. Eventually, (after a long ass time) he'll be knocked out, and then it's Juggernaut and Hulk vs. Superman. If not, Superman will be felled first by both Hulk and Juggernaut, and it's Flash vs. Hulk and Juggernaut. Either way, Hulk and Juggy win.

Im not only basing on the fact that the writers said he couldnt do it but also because he can something VERY simliar (go through inorganic objects)

The Hulk couldn't beat what?

The hulk and jugg are not normal beings they are superheroes with powers, they could be exceptions.

You cant tell me that that doesnt make them overpowered thats my OPINION.

Just because you think the flash cannnot vibrate throught people doesnt make it true there are several people who would disagree with. Thats just your OPINION. And that is what this is all about your OPINION and if it is my OPINION that the flash can go through them (though its not because they are not normal people) and there is evidence to support me i.e. inorganic stuff and there is no evidence to disprove me then you cannot say that it is impossible for him to do so as fact only as your OPINION.

EDIT: double post

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
That is your opinion. Until it is proven that Flash can defeat anyone by vibrating through them, don't use the argument. If a character doesn't use a power in any of his comic books, ultimately, he doesn't possess it. Name one character that has a power that he has never used. You can't, of course. If you have a power, it shows up somewhere in one of your comics.

There also has to be a limit to what Flash can cause to explode. If Flash vibrated through a block of solid adamantium, do you think it would explode? Hulk is much more durable than any of the machinery or anything else that Flash has vibrated through. Even if flash could vibrate through Hulk, how do you know he'd explode? He's taken nukes before and walked away.

What many of the Flashes fans need to realize is that speed is not absolute. According to you, this guy should be unbeatable.

It is YOUR opinion that Flash CAN'T defeat someone by vibrating through them. Using the logic you've applied to the subject, Flash needs to have stated in one of his comic books that he is incapable of doing something for him to be truly unable. You say "power" like we're claiming Flash can shoot lasers out of his eyes. Vibrating through someone is not a separate power from the ones Flash possesses. It comes with his speed and his control over his molecules. And why does there have to be a limit to what Flash can make explode? Though I agree that Adamantium probably wouldn't do so, Hulk's body is not made of adamantium, so what does it matter? As for Hulk "taking" nukes, have any of those nukes been inside of him when they went off?

And for the record, I don't have to be a Flash fan to support the guy. He is not unbeatable, and his speed is not absolute. But he is capable of defeating alot of people, like him or not.

Until you can prove that he can, it is your opinion (and opinion alone,) that he can vibrate through people. Let's work on facts please.

There is a certainly a limit to what he can detonate, he can't even vibrate through very dense matter. No, Hulk's body isn't made of adamantium, but it is incredibly dense, and it is also described as "virtually indestructable." If Flash has a hard time vibrating through dense matter, what makes you think he can vibrate through Hulk? Or Juggernaut?

Hulk has never said "I can't fly," but he does something very similar; he can jump into the stratosphere, or further, and he can cover miles in a single, casual jump. That's alot like flying isn't it? Does that mean he can fly? Of course not, because he has never flown. The same logic holds true for Flash. A person is not a object, it is an organism. There is a big difference between making an object explode and making an organism explode, one of them being the apparently drastic varience of Flash's power level. If he can make objects explode, he's powerful. If he can make ANYTHING explode, he's virtually unbeatable.

Until you prove that Flash can vibrate through an organism and cause it to explode, don't use the argument.

man hulk and juggy would win easy hulk beat superman and flash cant hurt juggy so i have to say hulk and juggy man i hate superman anyway
superman hella gay he's hecca stronge but his worst enemiey is a rich white guy that tells on people hulk fight people like abomination rhino and wendigo loo superman would last 1 minutes atbthe most

Originally posted by black wolverine
man hulk and juggy would win easy hulk beat superman and flash cant hurt juggy so i have to say hulk and juggy man i hate superman anyway
superman hella gay he's hecca stronge but his worst enemiey is a rich white guy that tells on people hulk fight people like abomination rhino and wendigo loo superman would last 1 minutes atbthe most

What?!?

i would have to agree on the with the logic of cosmic cube. pulling this "he can vibrate through stuff, so he can vibrate through people" argument makes very, very, very little sense. aside from scientific inconsistencies, it is stupid to give someone a power they have never demonstrated because it is a "logical" extension of powers they have shown.

but this infinite mass punch thing, though similarly illogical, should swing the fight in the favor of superman and flash.

though if you look at juggy's supposed powers, and disregard his inconsistent showings, he should win for team marvel anyway.

" Eventually, (after a long ass time) he'll be knocked out, and then it's Juggernaut and Hulk vs. Superman. If not, Superman will be felled first by both Hulk and Juggernaut, and it's Flash vs. Hulk and Juggernaut. Either way, Hulk and Juggy win."

Even if Flash couldn't do anything to hurt them, what makes you think he'll tire before Juggs and Hulk do? I'm sure (although it wont do alot of damage), him hitting them will wear them more than him. I don't see them even being able to touch him, let alone even see him. Plus, Supes can move at what is it, close to light speed? If both of them were to be moving at their top speeds, the fight would prob. be over in a very very short time. Plus if Supes was to use all of his powers (which you barely ever see him do) and was to go all out on them, relentlessly, I don't even think that Hulk and Juggs would stand a chance. I'm not a fanboy of Supes (despite the graphic on my tags), but if you seriously consider the amount of powers/things that Superman can do alone, this fight is kind of redundant. Let alone you're adding someone that can move faster than Supes helping...

if nothing else the flash could lend his speed to superman making him even faster.

Originally posted by hoorayforpeepee
i would have to agree on the with the logic of cosmic cube. pulling this "he can vibrate through stuff, so he can vibrate through people" argument makes very, very, very little sense. aside from scientific inconsistencies, it is stupid to give someone a power they have never demonstrated because it is a "logical" extension of powers they have shown.

but this infinite mass punch thing, though similarly illogical, should swing the fight in the favor of superman and flash.

though if you look at juggy's supposed powers, and disregard his inconsistent showings, he should win for team marvel anyway.

And its not stupid to say thats its a fact that they cant? It is a logical extension of a known power so you cannot completely disregard it. These are comics scientific inconsistencies are to be expected.

I don't know what trip I was on, but now that I rethink things, Superman and Flash manage a win. It would be extremely difficult for Juggernaut or Hulk to hit Flash, and he's got Superman backing him up.

They may be in for a hard fight, but Superman and Flash will eventually pull out a win.

I was just arguing that Flash could not make Hulk or Juggy explode.

and I agree he cant.

Yes, it is very illogical to amplify a characters power without the say-so of the writers. Flash has never demonstrated the power, so as of right now, or until the writer say he possesses it, he does not possess such a power. The moment Flash vibrates through someone and makes them explode in a comic book, I, and everyone else will accept the fact that yes, he can vibrate through people and make them explode. Until then, he does not posses such power. Not so tough logic, eh?

Ok.

whoah I still think he can vibrate through ppl just not hulk or jugg.

Sigh... Ok, I guess that's fair.

You're entitled to your opinion, you just shouldn't use your opinion when debating a character's abilities in a thread. That's gotta be facts.

Regardless, Superman and Flash will pull through.

"you just shouldn't use your opinion when debating a character's abilities in a thread"

Almost impossible I think.

"Regardless, Superman and Flash will pull through."

Yes they will.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that Juggernaut's powers are magic-based. Supes, in theory, should be really weak against his attacks then, which adds another layer to the fight.

And I'd be disinclined to believe any "Flash exploding objects/people/etc" theories unless someone can cite me an issue where it happens.

Given these two points, I'd vote for team Marvel.
-DM

Good point. Juggernaut's strength is magical in nature. Who's to say one punch from Juggernaut won't send Superman packing?

Isn't that the reason Captain Marvel can beat him? Magic in power and all.

doesnt matter he wouldnt be able to land a punch.

On Superman? Why not?

even the slowest fu@kes has hit superman.

doesn't make sence but they did

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
On Superman? Why not?

ummm because hes to fast

Superman can move at Mach 10 in an atmosphere. That's not too fast to be hit. Mind you, he will be attacking Juggernaut

Well why can't supes atk Hulk, and Flash pound away on juggy going light or near light speed? Sure it wont hurt Juggy but it'll keep him busy. Or not even punch him just dodge him. That be easy for Wally.

Why can't Juggy just attack Superman, knock him out with one Cyttorak-charged punch, and then help Hulk catch the speedy little bastard.

have u ever seen Jugs or Hulk move even close to Mach 10? So how do you expect them to catch him. Plus Flash could give him speed to exceed light speed. I think if Supes punched faster than light-speed it would really hurt Jugs and Hulk.

Catching him isn't a problem, unless he's running away. It wouldn't take long for Juggernaut to land a punch on Superman.

OK i dont know if it has been said but Jug is powered by magic. One serious hit by him to Sup would increase there chance of winning. And as was said before Hulk can do that thunder clap (or what ever it is called) to take the flash out if he pisses him off enough.

I find myself agreeing with C. Cube. Unless Supes is running away, Juggs will get a hit or two in, and that'll be all he needs to weaken Supes considerably (maybe not quite kill him).

And Hulk's has actually used his sonic-clap trick before...the theories of Flash hurting Hulk/Juggs might be possible, but they seem altogether less likely than a sonic clap knocking Flash for a loop.

I'm stayin' with Team Marvel
-DM

anyone here watch DBZ? You know when they fight sometimes one character is fast he he dodges a punch from an opponent and appears behind him. Thats what I see happening, and remember flash can lend his speed to superman making him faster than light.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I find myself agreeing with C. Cube. Unless Supes is running away, Juggs will get a hit or two in, and that'll be all he needs to weaken Supes considerably (maybe not quite kill him).

And Hulk's has actually used his sonic-clap trick before...the theories of Flash hurting Hulk/Juggs might be possible, but they seem altogether less likely than a sonic clap knocking Flash for a loop.

I'm stayin' with Team Marvel
-DM

If the flash is running even near light speed he could easily dodge a sound wave.

Originally posted by Hegemon875
If the flash is running even near light speed he could easily dodge a sound wave.

Juggs, after taking out Supes, starts to do a dance...an crazy Irish jig with smatterings of the Robot thrown in for the hell of it.

Hulk, amused, begins clapping wildly and stomping on the ground...a continuous sonic clap effect envelopes a mile-wide area. Flash can't get close. Not being dumb, he doesn't try to get close. But being much smaller and less resistant to such forces, he drops dead from starvation and thirst long before Juggs is even tired of dancing.

-DM

P.S. Actually, silliness aside, you might be right...I'm a bit torn at the moment, but with Marvel my vote shall stay because stobborn pride outweighs my willpower to fully think it through at the moment.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Juggs, after taking out Supes, starts to do a dance...an crazy Irish jig with smatterings of the Robot thrown in for the hell of it.

Hulk, amused, begins clapping wildly and stomping on the ground...a continuous sonic clap effect envelopes a mile-wide area. Flash can't get close. Not being dumb, he doesn't try to get close. But being much smaller and less resistant to such forces, he drops dead from starvation and thirst long before Juggs is even tired of dancing.

-DM

P.S. Actually, silliness aside, you might be right...I'm a bit torn at the moment, but with Marvel my vote shall stay because stobborn pride outweighs my willpower to fully think it through at the moment.


well ok at least you admit it.