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I have a theory linking Sifo Dias and General Grievous. We all know that GG is part alien and part machine and has the wherewithall to handle multiple lightsabres. The questions remain: how did he come accustomed to handling lightsabers, and if he is mostly machine, why doesn't the empire produce 1000's of GG.

Perhaps GG was Sifo Dias, a jedi who was presumed dead and then was "rebuilt" by the Palpatine the same way Vader will be. GG being an ex-jedi would explain his saber skill and his stategic intelligence. Assuming the only organic parts of GG body are his brain and possibly his eyes, it is possible that is almost all that was salvagable of his body when whatever ill fate fell him. That sort of damaged would explain why the jedi thought he was dead, and having an alien intelligence behind all that cybernetics would explain why the empire is not mass producing GG.

Remember the nervous look Mace and Yoda shared when discussing his name?

can't be, you need midichlorians to communicate with the force, and metal doesn't have that, so his sabre skills and such can't come from a jedi at all.

Granted you need midochlorians, but if general grievous is not 100% cybernetic, there has to be some tissue left. Thus, he may not be as in touch with the force before his new body, but there he still would be on some small level.

Yes, there is no way to rule out the cybernetic GG having force skills if Vader is not ruled out, as clearly he is not.

Not an uninteresting idea- but I don't think it has the ring of truth about it.

I think the larger problem than any technical fault with this idea is in why Dooku and Sidious would work with him. And I don't think we need to explain why he is not mass produced- he is a sentient being, regardless of what metal bits he has strapped to him. May as well ask why Maul or Vader are not mass produced.

Sidious would work with him for obvious reasons. If he was once a Jedi, Sidious would like nothing more then to have turned him to the dark side. Also, Sidious will need multiple enforcers if he is to rule the galaxy, not just Anakin.

The clones are sentient and mass produced. So the questions remains, what makes GG so bad? If one has the possibility to produce millions of clones with accelerated growth and innate disposition to follow orders, why would you not mass produce GG if he is just a brain with a cybernetic body?

There has to be something else there. It could possibly be that whatever alien life form was there before the implants, had force ability, and that is one thing that cannot be mass produced.

Grevious is the upper half part of maul, encapsulated on a bionic body.

I think we're all missing the obvious. It appears that only a Sith Lord or a Jedi wield a lightsaber. So, obviously, Grievous is either the remnants of a Sith Lord or a Jedi.

It really seems that simple to me.


corn

i just got the new insider. the maul thing may actually have at least some truth, considering that in the original animatics for grievous, they used vader's body with darth maul's eyes. i think it's interesting that his figting style was based on Capiora/Brazillian Kung Fu. Personally, I think Grievous is a character completely new, never seen before, and that he was critically injured by the Jedi about five years after episode one and was in command of the droid army within two years. His body was probably not completed until shortly after the battle of Geonosis with hime revealing himself to the Jedi after many allusions 4 months after that, after the battle of Muunilist.
as for the Jedi traitor...Rick says we've seen him on screen and that there have been allusions in the EU this whole time. I'm placing my chips on either Quinlan Vos or Sora Bulq.

GL said that with cutting Maul into he wanted to say "he's gone, he's not coming back", so unless he made a huge change of mind, Maul ISN'T returning

Absolutely not- only two, remember? He already has an apprentice and Grievous is obviously no replacement for Dooku if he is working alongside him. If Grievous IS a force-using being I would still be surprised if he was Sifo-Dyas.

As for clones being sentient and mass produced, that is a complete irrelevance, that is just like building a robot. The clones are NOT all as good as the original template. They are all obedient by nature and trained as soldiers throughout their growth cycle, but you cannot inject 'skill' into them, as it were.

Grievous is a PERSON, he is unique, you cannot make more of him. Simple common sense. You could try and make others LIKE him, but Grievous is a obviously a distinctly talented being. So they might well build other cyborgs, but where is the guaranteee that they will be as deadly as Grievous? You have to forget about his robotic parts; they just form part of a whole and making someone as dangerous as him is not just a matter of slapping robotics on.

As I say, you may as well ask why they do not make lots of Mauls or Vaders- or for that matter, Jango's; all they got were fit basic templates based upon him. You cannot duplicate personalities, and that includes the skills and powers of that personality.

Your actually strengthening my point. Why can't you clone Maul and Dooku? Because they possess the quality that one cannot clone, force ability.

And Corn's lightsaber point is correct, handling one saber is already tough, so how could you explain GG handling 2,3, and even 4 sabers?

The alien part of Grievous must have force capabilities.

you can't clone maul cause he's dead, fell in a shaft, he's over, not returning

Ok, not to be offensive here, but come on yers! You should know that the fact that an organism is dead does not mean you cannot clone it. DNA samples can be obtained from any organism, living or dead, even if it has been dead for millions of years.

Doesn't anybody remember a few years back they took the DNA from the wooley mammoth they had found perfectly frozen in the tundra? The speculation was that the scientists were planning on creating another mammoth by splicing it with modern day elephant DNA.

Darth Maul could be cloned quite easily, however, I don't believe Grievous is what's left of Maul. If I had to put my money on it, I'd say GG contains the remnants of Sifo Dyas.

As I said before, any creature who can wield a lightsaber, much less 4 of them at one time, HAS to either be (or have been) either a Sith Lord or a Jedi.

Has to be.

cornplennious plentious magnanimous

I know, it's that GL clearly stated that Maul is dead and won't return

Right on Corn

It's entirely possible he has force powers, but it might also simply be a robotic boost to his natural co-ordination.

I am not strengthening your point at all, I am simply pointing out that cloning only produces templates, NOT simply the same thing again. As I made that point pretty clear with Jango, which you decline to refute- as indeed, you declined to comment on all of what I said that did not fit with your view, which is never seemly- your position is rather in tatters. They make more based upon him but they are NOT all as good as him and they all have to be trained! By your logic, as Jango has no force powers, they should be able to make billions just like him with all his skills. They cannot, so you are wrong.

So let me make it clear- force ability or not, you just could NOT simply create more of Grievous, only more cyborgs. He is a person, not a weapon or starship; you are letting the robotic parts of him distract you. Likewise they cannot create more Jangos- only more clones. Grievous' abilities are linked into the fact he is a unique and skilled being and that cannot be duplicated, whether it is down to his abilities with the Force or otherwise. The reason why there are no more, then, is as simple as that- there is no way TO create another one.

So there is absolutely no proof, as of yet, he has force powers- but it is far from impossible.

And stop connecting Star Wars to real life- in the SW films, it is clear you need a LIVING template for cloning. Jango had to stay on Kamino because they kept needing to get fresh material from him.

Natural co-ordination? I'm trying to recall any co-ordinated individuals in the SW universe that can weild a lightsaber(s) by co-ordination alone. Robotics is not enough. The force must be prevalient.

You are corrert, one cannot instill life experiences, which is why Jango is superior to his clones. I've never argued that. My position is that the main quality that seperated GG from Droids, Clones, and other enemies is the same quality that allows him to wield 4 sabers, i.e. force ability, not just talent or experience or anything else for that matter.

If this theory is correct, and it is just a theory. It might well provide a link to Sifo's identity.

You have no proof that the force would have to be prevalent. It would be extremely difficult but FAR from impossible for a non-force user to wield a sabre. He would never do it as well as a Jedi, and there probably would not be any point, but it could be done.

And if GL wants to say a uniquely talented guy with robotic enhancements to his co-ordination and skill can also do it, then he can do that- it does not HAVE to be Force ability, even though that is a very plausible explanation.

He can, and no I don't have any proof. It's all just theory. A very simple theory that seems to fit the SW universe thus far. Individuals who wield sabers have force ability.

The only open contradiction to it is in the original ANH novel, which is semi-canon, but that's not necessarily a huge problem.

(The novel states that sabres were once more widely used but these days only the Jedi still use them)

have a look at this picture , could that be grevious ?

(i hope i am allowed to do that )

It's looks like OB1 on the left, mace on the far right, and an actor in a CGI set-up outfit in the middle. It could be the actor is taking the place of where General Grevious will be generated in.

obi-wan is on the left, the two guys represent either Grievous' body guards or his arms.

ok, one more thing, I only said that they used Maul's eyes in the CGI animatics, not that he was Maul. He is in no way, Darth Maul. And just because a dark side user is in the employ of the Sith, Doesn't make him or her Sith. being a Sithlord involves a grasp and knowledge of the dark side that other dark warriors don't have. I doubt Grievous has any real force powers but even if he does, he's simply a dark side user, not a sith. therefore, neither he, nor Assajj Ventress, nor Sora Bulq, nor any othe dark side user violates the New Sith Code. and for the record, you forgot to count his feet, Grievous can use up to 6 saber's at a time.

Do you think GL would give 1 to 6 lightsabers to someone who does not have force abilities?

I LOVE the theory that Grievous is Sypho-Dias. I just don't think Lucas is that complex a story writer though.

Are you being sarcastic? You can't tell any of us that Palpatine's rise to power isn't complex or clever.

I think it's TOO complicated at times, for a Star Wars film that is.

it's star wars, the most logical explanation IS the correct one

I am not sure where this confusion comes from, but it is not a get-out clause for the user to not be a Sith! There is nothing magical about being a Sith that means there can only be two. It is the DARK SIDE that turns against itself, not only the Sith!

The Sith happen to be the organisation that champions the Dark Side, but the theory behind the rule applies in general- if there are more than two Dark Siders, they will eventually turn on the leader with ruinous consequences. It doesn't matter a damn if the user is a fully paid-up Sith or not; the problem remains!

It is not some archaic traditional rule- it is the foundation of the only way they can survive. And the Sith- certainly under Sidious- follow that rule utterly- they would not break it, not for a third Sith, or for any form of Dark Side follower. 'Sith' is just a name of an organisation; it is the third (or more) component of an inherently destructive philosophy that is the issue.

In the Clone Wars cartoon, the get-out clause for Ventress is purely this- she is an idiot, and does not realise that Sidious' and Tyrannus' plan for her automatically involved her death. Problem solved.

Grievous is obviously a tad more important than that.

It would work if Dooku and Grievous were in competition but I really don't see that being the case.

Err, yes I can, it is actually a very basic piece of political theory- it just looks very intellectual in a Star Wars setting designed for kids.

It's actually one of my favourite pieces of the prequel trilogy plot but it is hardly labyrinthine.

while i am fascinated at the possibility that Grevious could be sifo-dyas, this idea falls flat in light of what we "officially" know about sifo-dyas:

The character who ordered the clones was seen onscreen in Ep2. -Pablo Hidalgo (Official Site, Webcam)

Grevious was NOT seen on screen in EPII, therefore, he cannot be sifo-dyas, the jedi who ordered the clone army. Nice theory, but it just doesnt add up. While Pablo is not GL, its the best we have at the moment. However, there is some very "weak" evidence that could conceivably support the theory right from the horses mouth:

The Jedi who ordered the clone army will be revealed in Ep3. - George Lucas

Grevious is a character "revealed" in EPIII, so it is POSSIBLE Pablo was wrong and this was GL's hint that grevious is/was sifo-dyas.

Whoever Grevious is, i think it highly likely he is a "product" of the trade federation. His features are uncannily similar to that of the droids in the trade federation army. I would propose grevious is/was a member of the species on whom the droids are based - the droids heads do NOT look like nuemodians, they look more like the race of the jedi who attacked dooku on geonosis (remember, the green jedi jango fett shot off the balconly, causing him to fall to his death). anyway, the heads are very similar. If Grevious IS a jedi we have seen, he is that jedi i mentioned before, whom we saw die in AOTC. But even that is highly unlikely.

You are correct, Pablo did say we have seen Sifo in Episode II, but that still does not completely rule out he is Grevious. I assume since most people would not volunteer to have 95% of their body replaced by robotics, whatever ill fate happened to Grevious while he was 100% organic was so catasphrophic that perhaps almost nothing was left of him. That being said, it is quite possible that we have seen Grevious/Sifo in episode II, we just did not recognize him. A lot could have happened between Episode II and III.

No matter if my theory is correct or not, I still think Grevious at one point was a Jedi. That would help explain his lightsaber affinity.

the sith are an elite society, other dark side users are simply wannabees. I'm not sure, but i think the main difference involves being able to mask your pressence in the force and to use lightning.
anyway, what I really don't buy is the theory that Grievous was a droid who incorperated living tissue into his makeup. that just makes no sense to me. Grievous is obviously someone who got seriously f&cked up by the Jedi and holds a grudge. whoever built, and continues to build him is probably the same person who designed Vader. I also heard that he is "in the loop", and that his lightsaber skills were taught by both Tyranus and Sidious.

Well, it is the designers, rather than random fans, who said he might be the droid first with organic bits tacked on...

Lightning cannot be Sith only or they would have identified Dooku as a Sith; they have not.

Right, Dooku and Yoda fought, and Dooku used lightning. When Yoda experienced the lightning, he didn't say "Whoah! Lightning! You must be a Sith." He DID say, after absorbing the lightning, "...the dark side I sense in you", as if the lightning was just incidental and not necessarily an indicator of being a Sith.

As far as the Grievous argument goes, I still stand behind my assertion that Grievous contains the remnants of either a Jedi or a Sith. What better fighting machine AND leader would there be than a droid with the knowledge and abilities of either a Sith or a Jedi?

corn

why is it that everyone thinks there is a difference between having the dark side in you and being a sith? Technically, there IS a difference. Its the same difference as "having the light side in you" and being a Jedi. There are three categories to chose from:

1. If you have force ability, you are either simply force sensitive and were not discovered by the jedi or too old to begin training.

2. the Light side is in you - you are a jedi

3. the dark side is in you - you are a sith

To progress beyond simply being force sensitive, you have to be TAUGHT one side or the other, light or dark. Yodas comment that he sensed the dark side in Dooku is NOT evidence yoda didnt think he was associated with the sith. In fact, the dialog in the jedi chambers near the end of the movie gives evidence to the contrary. Yoda knew Dooku was a sith, he just didnt come out and say, "i sense you are a sith." guys, we have to remember, these are just movies and part of movies is having good dialog. Yoda knew Dooku was a sith. Hell, the look on Obiwans face shows he suspects in when Dooku tells him, "together, we will destroy the sith!"

Inocrrect, Bigsef, I am afraid. You are not a Sith unless you are accepted as a Sith. It is an organisation you must be a member of.

Same as a Jedi- you can be as Light Side as you want, but if you are not a member of the organisation called the Jedi, you are not a Jedi.

When Dooku left the Jedi, it was assumed he was still a lightsider, but NOT a Jedi as he had left the Order.

Now they think he has turned to the dark side- NOT that he is a Sith. They are not irrevocably tied.

These are names of organisations- not states of being. That should be fairly obvious- as we know, there can only be two Sith. That's not a limit on how many people can fall to the Dark Side, is it? It just means the Sith themselves will only accept two among their number. That they would also destroy any rivals is by the by.

Seriously, this is important, and the website comments on it- the Jedi have NOT identified Dooku as a Sith, like we the viewers have, and this is part of the plotline. They just think he has gone bad. You are very much misleading yourself if you think that THEY think what WE know. The very final reveal of Episode II tells the audience that he is a Sith... something the Jedi have not yet sussed.

The Jedi are very anxious to find the Sith- they WOULD have pointed out Dooku as who they have been looking for if they had made a positive id.

the characters in the movie are NOT stupid. and we have to remember, this is ONLY a movie. We arent supposed to compare every little thing to how our own real world works. but the jedi aren't that stupid. they knew there was a master and an apprentice, they knew obiwan killed one of them on naboo. further, they know the SITH are behind what is going on. When obiw

Ush, you are generally bright, but in this case, you are overlooking CANON in the movies themselves.

When Qui-gon encountered darth Maul in TPM, did he tell the jedi council, "i think he was someone who used the dark side of the force?" NO. he said, "i think he was trained in the sith arts" or something to that effect. That perked up everyones interest because of the appearance of the sith possibly had some relationship to the prophecy regarding the chosen on. further, kai adi mundi wanted obiwan and quigon to draw out their attacker, so, as mace windu put it, they could "unravel the mystery of the sith."

Further, the jedi knew there was a sith master and an apprentice, they knew obiwan killed one of them on naboo. Yoda said there are ALWAYS TWO. NO MORE and NO LESS. so at the outset of AOTC, they know there are still TWO sith.

While the jedi beleived Dooku to still be good at the beginning of the movie, they realized his true nature by the end of the movie. Obiwans expression when dooku was interrogating him, and asking for his help in crushing the sith clearly point out two things.

1. that The jedi STILL belevie the Sith are a powerful force behind what is going on.
2. Obiwan suspects Dooku MAY be sith.

Further, the outcome of the battle with Dooku and the fact that the dark side is growing clearly give evidence the jedi feel Dooku is one of these two sith, since they witnessed him in action.

actually, bigsef3... he says "...and he was well trained in the Jedi Arts... My only conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord". He did not say Sith Arts.

and on what ground do they know that in AOTC there are two sith??? they killed one yes, but that doesn't mean that with a fingersnap you got a new apprentice... and no matter what happens at the end of the movie they still think that Dooku wasn't THAT bad "lies, deceide... creating mistrust"... but nothing about killing and such!

yers, if you notice is said, SOMETHING LIKE, "i think he was trained in the sith arts" it was NOT a direct quote and i said such. further, you dont get a new sith apprentice with a snap of the finger but 10 years is hardly a snap of the finger.

oh, and you say they didnt think dooku was THAT bad? he was responsible for the death of every jedi that died on geonosis, and were it not for yoda and the clone troopers, would have killed everyone. they do think he is THAT bad, good greif, did we watch the same movie?

You're forgetting that the title Darth implies DARk lord of the siTH, and Dooku is Darth Tyrannus.

while i appreciate your sharing my opinion, it should be pointed out none of the characters know his name is DARTH tyrannus. they dont know tyrannus is dooku at all

even with the "something like" your quote was WAY off, sith and jedi are two opposites

and the idea is that Dooku left 10 years ago and is still good, afterwards they chance it to him being bad but NOT him being a Sith! it's not the same either.

he simply defended himself on geonosis, the jedi provoced him with showing up and budding in on a planet that does not recognise them as a police force. if for his defence lots of jedi died, it's not the point, he defended himself and "his" planet. It's justified

oh, and they don't KNOW it's DARTH!
the only thing they know is that there was "a GUY called Tyrannus" who recruted Jango on one of the moons of Bogden, they didn't call him DARTH Tyrannus

Thankyou for calling me bright, Bigsef... but it is just the simple application of logic- which if you did as well, you would not make the errors you are making.

First of all, that QGJ identified Maul as a Sith is of absolutely no relevance to them knowing whether Dooku is one or not. The reason QGJ identified Maul as a Sith is that a. he was trained and b. he was no Jedi- that only left one option. Dooku, on the other hand, was once a Jedi- so that is the explanation of his training, hence no instant suspicion he is a Sith.

I do not see the numbers of Sith you so capitally quote as being in any way relevant at all. Whether there is currently one or two, they are still looking for them and would be VERY much making capital of it if they had succeeded.

Let me make this clear-

THE JEDI DO NOT KNOW DOOKU IS A SITH

The website confirms this and I would like a good reason as to why that would not be so- I am very wary of contradicting the site without damn good reason.

They may, very well, have Dooku in mind as a suspect- but his identity as a Sith was not blown at any point in the film. That is actually one of the entire plot points of AOTC. Stupidity of the characters does not come into it- it is simply not something thay have any way to know.

And what is completely true is that you are NOT a Sith just because you are a Dark Sider- this is simply logic; you are a Sith if you BELONG to the Sith and that is it.

my point is that you are neither light or dark unless you are a sith or a jedi. if you are not a jedi or a sith, you are simply someone who has force-sensitivity. dooku may have left the jedi, but that doesnt mean he was in "limbo." for example, a person born as a catholic maysay they are "catholic," but they might not have been to church in years. that is WHY the jedi still viewed dooku as being good and couldnt fathom the possibility he was responsible for the assassination attempt on padme, because they viewed him as still being good - a "non-practicing" jedi, if you will.

i do not mean to contradict the website, but as i beleive you have argued before, it is NOT cannon, although this is an instance where i feel it conflicts what seems clear in the movies.

I see absolutely nowhere at any point where the canon even vaguely contradicts it.

If you are not a Jedi or a Sith it does not necessarily mean anything. Even if 100% of force users in the galaxy at this time are Jedi or Sith, it does not mean that Jedi means Light Side user, and Sith means dark side user.. They are simply names of organisations. If Dooku had just falledn to the Dark Side, and not been taken as an apprentice, he would be just that- an ex-Jedi Dark Sider, not a Sith.

i can't believe i forgot to mention this before, the main difference between a wannabee/witch/Rouge or dark jedi or casual dark side user and a sithlord is that the sith create an imbalance in the force. and according to some of the recent clone wars novels and things (again feel free to shout me down), not even jango knew Dooku was a sith, calling him Count Tyrannous. The Jedi really have no evidence that Dooku is a sith other than the fact that he uses the dark side and a red light saber. but as Dooku himself states clone Wars chapter 8 "you wear the trappings of the sith, you fight like the sith...but this can be imitated".

One other thing from that same source, regardless of dark side use, "sith have no fear"

it sounds to me like too many peoples minds have been polluted by the EU. there is no such thing as a "dark jedi" in cannon, any more than there is such a thing as a "light jedi." these movies are simple stories with clearly defined good guys and bad guys. its jedi vs. sith, good vs. evil. its black or its white. there is no grey.

I don't think its as simple as black and white. If there is one constant in this series it is people can change. Anakin started good, went really bad, and in the end went back to the light. Han Solo started indiferent to anyone but himself, and then chose a cause greater then himself. Dooku was once good and now he is bad.... etc. Change is the only constant.

yes, but the characters true color is revealed by the end of the movie. people argue whether dooku is really truly evil, but the movies make it clear he is. there is no grey area in the sense characters do not stay in a grey area. they are not grey characters. they are either black or white, or transitioning between the two.

I love what this thread has become. But, with all due respect to Bigsef3, "transitioning between the two" would actually be a "gray area".



corn

Corn is right about the "grey area" being the transition. That being said, let's get back to General Greivous.

Where do all you you think he developed his lightsaber skill/affinity?

That's easy. He used to be Sifo Dyus.



cornponious

Why does Greivous HAVE to have force powers? A computer can process information much faster than an organic brain. It would be easy to program Greivous to fight as a Jedi or a Sith as he would already be able to mimic the reaction time. Just a thought. Maybe Sidious, seeing the future, had Greivous created as an prototype of Darth Vader. Perhaps?

he was trained by sidious and tyrannus.

That was one of my earlier points, if lightsabers are the baddest of weapons and all that was involved in using them was computer reaction time, why would the empire not produce 1000's of saber wielding Grevious types. Or why did not the original droids carry sabers? I think GL is reserving lightsabers for force users, otherwise the mystic becomes common.

While I don't think Sidious saw the future or that Grevious is a prototype, I do think Sidious finds pleasure in turning what was once light into dark. The obvious is Anakin to Vader, another instance is when Luke using the Dark Side to strike down Vader (remember Sidious' laugh?), others could be Sifo to Grevious, and Dooku from a Jedi to an unknowning minion of Sidious' will.

I read somplace on here about Grevious being able to weild 4 sabers using his hands and feet. Well today on StarWars.com they have added him to the data bank and the pic on the expanded universe section he is using 3 sabers one in each hand and one with his foot.

the website indicates he uses the sabers merely as trophies. i doubt the saber is his weapon of choice... more a last line of defense. in EPIII, we know he uses the saber to execute a jedi, and i imagine that is what his intention in using them is. thus far, we have no solid evidence grevious makes it a habbit to use sabers in combat, and the pictures weve seen are likely just to "look pretty." i really dont think grevious is a force user. hes a "bounty-hunter" type. the boba fett of episode III.

Did you look at the pic in the data bank in the expanded universe section? It looks like it is from the clone wars micro series possibly tonights episode and he is using sabers.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/generalgrievous/?id=eu

Its EU so i dont necessarily trust it as being factual, however i do think that Lucasfilm would keep tabs on what they do in the clone wars cartoon, so you do have a point. i do, however, disagree with those who say you HAVE to be a forceuser to use a lightsaber. A lightsaber is just a glorified sword. Im sure anyone can pick one up and fight with it, although they would probably lose to a jedi. However being cybernetic and using three, perhaps he can duel effectively, but i don't beleive a non-force user could block blaster fire with a saber. THAT requires using the force since the speed of light is pretty darn fast and it would be impossible to block a laserblast without the force.

Your proboly right as we saw in A New Hope, Luke even had some issues with being able to block lasers being shot at him from his jedi training remote, and he had the ability to use the force.

Of course they have fear!

'Fear is my ally'- Darth Maul

Dooku was just winding her up! Dark Siders are in touch with their emotions.

It is almost certainly true you would need the force to block fire.

And wholst anyone could technically just pick up and swing a lightsabre, to use it as a weapon is INCREDIBLY dangerous. it is not like a normal sword; anyone just trying to use it as one will most likely kill themselves before an enemy. But in general I agree- there is nothing mystic about a lightsabre. I would simply say that to create droids that can fight with them, if so, is simply very difficult and hence mostly prohibitive.

Grievous uses sabres. That Clone Wars episode is designed to introduce him as the Ep. III bad guy- listen to the commentaries and you will hear the impact GL is having on these episodes (Durge and Ventress are also GL in origin... GL is keeping relatively tight control on Clone Wars). GL wouldn't let him use sabres in that episode if he would not in the film.

BTW, Shadowkiller, I posted that pic a while ago in the thread about the leaked footage.

Bigsef, NO-ONE was claiming grey, in-between area, that I saw.

Ahh I must have missed it.

Just wondering, when did Maul say this? The only thing I remember him saying was " At last we will reveal ourselves. At last, we shall have revenge."

corn

It was from the Darth Maul TV Spot.

he meant the fear of others, did anyone see the general's debute tonite? HOLY ****ING SHIT!!!!!!!!!

Grievous was truly incredible. If he could inspire that much fear and kick that much ass in a cartoon, I can't wait to see him in Episode 3.

i wonder how ki, shak, and aayla survived that encounter...

Ok, so, we can ask this question again- do you think he will fight on film like he does in the cartoon?

The cartoon does, of course, deliberately exaggerate and stylise things- I think the Mace Windu episodes demonstrate that best. As the maker says, you can get away with these things on cartoon in a way you vannot on film.

Yet the lightsabre duels have been done with close attention to the films, especially with Dooku's style. So what do you think with Grievous- a preview of what to expect, or simply the cartoon's interpretation of him?

My hope is that Aayla just flees to a new found galaxy where she immediatly goes to a little blue planet, straight to me

LOL!

Last Nights Clone Wars was F*ing Bad @ss!!!

I hope that we see him do the same in Episode Three.

Listening to the commentary makes interesting listening- about how Lucasfilm deliberately intervened to extend the episode (which orignally just had Anakin turn up, the Jedi leave Munnilist and the cam pan down to have Durge re-constructing himself) to put in Grievous.

I think that was a nice treat for Lucas to let The General be introduced in the cartoon. They way they ended it was way better then seing Durge reconstruct himself.
I know this is al little of subject of the thread. Am I to assume that Asajj survived that fall from the cliff during her battle with Anikan?

Ok, the commentary also makes it clear that they had almost NOTHING to go on with Grievous- all they knew is that he was fast and agile, and higher-pitched than Vader. So his voice, presence and fighting style might be entirely different in the film.

Not impossible, though, that there is retro-continuity here, as the film might take the cartoon as influence, seeing as it was early in film production that they did all this...

But all in all, maybe he does not use sabres on screen after all- though it still likely that he does.

Although we don't have a body, I would reckon Ventress is dead. They already want Durge back; SOMEONE has to stay dead...

As for Grievous being a Force user, it should be remembered that Lucas' order for his design was "I want a droid general." The designers made him a cyborg but it was not build into his design- so from a plot point of view, he is certainly nothing like Sifo-Dyas.

Its going to be interesting to see how Greivous Will be depicted on film.
I think that cartoon has made them definitely have an expectation to live up too, I can only imagine the disappointment if he is not as cool in the film.

Damn

Unless there is more to that than they say.

How about that first Jedi that the General killed by squasing him when he landed on top of him. I though he looked a lot like Shaggy from Scooby Doo . It turns out his name was Sha'a Gi ..."ZOINKS"

Yeah, I see the website gave him a backstory... couldn't have just been 'useless Jedi on the right', could he?

No doubt he will get some comics next.

I would rather see some a comic on mis master the cone head looking dude who loos like one of the council members.. Also the cone head with his head in wraps looked funny. I twas also funny seein a jedi version of teenwolf

Ki-Adi Mundi? He has already had a fair bit of attention, I think.

the insider say GG has no force skills but a whole lot of combat programming that allows him to anticipate even a jedi. plus, based on the cartoon, that mofo is faster than superman! It says in the insider that he wears all the lightsabers of dead jedi around his waist. What I want to know is, are we supposed to think Shaak Ti, Ki, and Co. are dead? or what?

I think Shak Ti survived it looked like she somehow force pushed herself away from the blade or somthing of that nature. I am also dangerously assuming that Ayala fled the scene, I am almost sure Shak filmed scens for episode 3 but I guess they could always be editied out.

Is Ki-Adi Mundi dead then? It certainly didn't look good for him...but on the other hand we never saw him die. He certainly could have escaped.

As for Grievous...dayyyyyyymn. That kicked ass. I hope he looks as cool in the movie. Anyone know if his movie voice is the same as the cartoon one?

the two unnamed Jedi are dead, the rest were severely injuered
Ki-Adi-Mundi dies on utapau with plo koon when their troops turn against them
Shak Ti is appointed Palpatine's bodygaurd and killed by Grievous at the start of episode III

and Aayla Secura is killed by Darth Sidious along with several other Jedi including Kit Fisto and Mace Windu who discover Palpatine is a Sith

also, Assajj did survive.

Ventress is going to be in Episode III?

SWEET!!!!

no; she apperently survives the cartoons, that doesn't mean she makes it to the movie

Aww. I love Ventress. She's such an awesome villaness.

love in which way?

Looking increasingly less likely that Grievous has any tie to the Force, then.

like your momma.

ooooooooooh! talking bout my momma!

wanna know who's your daddy?

Does anyone know who is vocing GG in the film? I cannot remember if it was confirmed. It would be nice if it was DiMaggio again, of course.

I watched episode 20 online last night. I'll be honest and say that this is the only episode I've seen. I am frankly not impressed with modern day standards of animation. Today's cartoons seem cheap and poorly animated. People will say that today's style (plain and angular) is just a stylized version of reality, but I say it's simply a lack of talent...

But I digress.

The point of this post is this: I am certain General Grievous, during the fight at the end of the episode, used "force push" on one of the Jedi. There was a cut to a closeup of Grievous' hand, then you saw the Jedi (I don't know her name) being pushed away very strongly.

I'm not 100% certain, but it sure as hell looked like the force.

Did any of you see this the way I did?

cornponious

no idea, but I doubt he can use the force

Merging. And Insider says no.

what was it then, i saw it too. it looked like he used force-push.

actually what that looked like to me was Shaak ti trying to force push grevious but he resisted so much she essentially repelled herself

it was a combination of shak ti pushing herself away with ki-adi-mundi pushing her away from the blade. anway, i looked at my tape and one of the Jedi that died (for sure) was kkruhk the wiphid. one of the jedi who originally schismed the order in the clone wars comics. the other three confirmed deaths are all new characters

I would have to agree with you, the second i found out about General Grievous, and his abilities w/ a lightsaber, i knew that the Humanoid or non humanoid (Alien), whatever the case maybe, would have to have some knowledge of the force. It seemed to me in SW: TCW cartoon, that he had to have been a former jedi or sith. Which lead me to believe that it was either Syfo Dious or Darth Maul. As we notice darth maul is still alive as he starts to fall, but that is quite the far fall to survive, thus the only other option is Syfo Dious.

So do you wish to explain way Insider says he has no force abilities? Or answer any of the other counters to that idea in this thread?

I'm sure Greivous will be awesome on film. He's great on the clone wars series and that's only a cartoon, imagine what he'll be like in action when the real thing comes out. Hopefully from what we see in the micro-series, Greivous will live up to the hype on film.

about grievous being sypho dias or something, i highly doubt that. lucas has even said that grievous will be like darth maul, that he will have hardly any back story at all and that they aren't planning on going really in depth with the character grievous. grievous is just a star wars villain similar to darth maul, jango fett, and even count dooku and we all know what happens to them, they get the cut. to be honest, who cares WHO grievous is, thats a part of the mystery that makes him so intriguing. i just can't wait so see him in action, think about it, he was designed to be a jedi-killing-machine (anybody catch the last episode of the Clone Wars cartoon, that grievous and jedi fight has me shaking with anticipation) so he is obviously a badass.

Heh and as its George's universe he can say, 'up yours Star wars fans im gonna do whatever i want...'

And i'd love to read the posts on here if he does, gawd it would be the twin towers all over again. LOL

Grievous is 95% hybrid droid and 5% exotic alien (brain,eyes, nervous sytem)
His skill with a lightsaber is due to the fact that Dooku trained him, but only to the level of padawan. He has no connections to Sidious and the sith conspiracy. He is not Syfo-Dias that is notheless a good theory. Sifo-Dyas is a Jedi who Sidious sought to corrupt when he failed Sidious killed Dyas. Dooku impersonated as Dyas for the ordering of the clone army.

Okay this is a plot hole but Kkrukh did not necessarily die. In starwars.com it said he received "grave injuries"

Gandalf, where did you get all that?

Gandalf seems to be giving out a lot of unoffiical stuff.

hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo supershadow

HAHA!~!!

there was a slew of offical announcements today about grievous, one of which is that we will see him without his mask in episode 3. according to rumors i've read, under the mask is a hidiously metallic human face encompassing the reptillian eyes with the top of the head being a transparasteel case exposing grievous' brain.

Sounds great, where did you read that?

the anouncement was on TF.N. the stuff about grievous under the mask i think i read on either TF.N, Shadow of the sith, or T'bone's site, I forget which. it was a long time ago.

actually, I read it too somewhere

Hope it's all true. That'd be awesome.

SMX

since grievous was supposedly inspired by the ILM crew's worst nightmares, I think there's a possibility we might see Louie Anderson under the mask.

SMX

I think Grievous is basically just a cyborg gone wild...

I like this painting that someone made of Grievous, though it doesn't look much like him...

This one too...

I dunno, he might be able to use the Force, or he might just be a bucket of bolts...

Maybe he has a weak connection to the Force.

I believe he is more then that, he is GENERAL Grievous after all.

By the way that last piece of artwork is great, it was done by John Dunivant who has created some of the best Episode III artwork I've seen.

so he's a partially mechanical organism who likes getting drunk and cavorting naked in public? oh I can see the adz for episode 3 on late night tv...

how do you think he got the name "general", DJ

that first pic of GG that rex posted was awesome...though it looks nothing like him

How many lightsabers do all of you think GG will wield in Episode III?

somewhere between 2 to 4

between 1 and 6.

as many as he can wield

I'd say 4, only because that's what I heard.

SMX

rex, i stole one of the concepts and made it my avvy

I can tell, Spearhead.

I made General Zink a kick-ass sig from the concept art. Dunivant made another thing like the blue one that Spearhead likes, tho it's just his head and it's on a red background, so I used it. Take a look...

Oooh. That's nice

Yes, very nice. Good job with that Rex.

SMX

I might have missed it, but could someone tell me who exactly this GG is, how he got so much power, and an enlarged picture of this alien?

GG is the new Episode 3 villian. He is mostly cyborg but he is part alien as well. If you'll notice my avatar, that is a pic of GG's mask. If you'll go to this web site and scroll down a bit, you'll see a pic of what he looks like. He's pretty sweet!

http://movieweb.com/news/news.php?id=3042

SMX

He was also in the final episode of Clone Wars Season 2, the 5-minute cartoon shorts. He took on five or six Jedi. Ki-Adi-Mundi was still fighting him at the end of the episode, but a human Padawan got crushed and stabbed, a Cerean got his head stepped on, Shaak Ti and Aayla Secura were thrown clear of combat, and K'ruhk was severly injured. Grievous kicks ass, so I don't see how Obi-Wan will beat him...

I thought I saw on some of the Hyperspace pictures Anakin hauling a beaten-up Obi Wan out of GG's ship, so I'm not sure that Obi DOES beat him.

Yes, Anakin does carry an injured Obi-Wan out of GG's ship after their first meet with GG, but Obi-Wan and GG have another confronatation later on in the movie in which Obi is supposed to beat him then.

SMX

ok GG does look badass in all but how many villians do u need?...theres sidious, dooku, vader, and now GG...i hope by adding GG lucas doenst stray away from the plot on all the things we wanna know like how jedis become ghost, how sideous deceits the senate...u get my point

SMX: Thanks for clearing that up

wuTa: think how many good guys there are as well

I think the main purpose for GG in Episode 3 is for something with the plot, and to introduce someone new that we haven't seen. It's to keep some fresh new Characters coming in and to grab your interest rather than seeing the exact same old people in every film, even though most of those people never get boring to watch from movie to movie, like Vader. Every StarWars movie, GL introduces a new villian so for Episode 3, it likes we got GG.

SMX

I love the looks of GG. He looks like a nasty killing machine. Man, this guy's gonna rock.

SMX

So what alein species is GG?

Right now iam inclined to belive that he was a Geonosian.
After looking at one of the Geonosian action figues today I kinda notices a resemblence as to his structure and the shape of a Geonosian (the kind without wings).

We all know that the Geonosians build the battledroids anyways, and since GG is a "droid general" I think he was a Geonosian that has modified himself.

What do the rest of you think?