Plot holes in Episode III

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The Last Son
I just watched ANH the other night and noticed half of what Obi Won was saying to Luke didn't happen in the prequels. If anyone has any explinations please let me know. For example. He mentiones Luke's Uncle thought that Anikan shouldn't have gotten invoved in the Clone Wars. ??? I don't get it.

darthmonkey9206
i just watched lord of the rings last night.

Darth Plagueis
Originally posted by The Last Son
I just watched ANH the other night and noticed half of what Obi Won was saying to Luke didn't happen in the prequels. If anyone has any explinations please let me know. For example. He mentiones Luke's Uncle thought that Anikan shouldn't have gotten invoved in the Clone Wars. ??? I don't get it. I wouldn't see that particular point as a plot hole as it is just a characters opinion. The Jedi ended up serving as military generals during the clone wars, as opposed to their traditional role as peacekeepers. I am sure that 20 years on, many people would view the Jedi's involvement in the clone wars as a mistake (i.e. they shuoldn't have gotten involved)

Luetchyboy
off course there are plot holes. I suspect he wasn't thinking 30 years ago about future plot holes.

Soda
the main ones I can think of are:

1)obi doesnt recognise the droids (but cud be lying)
2)the alien at the bar bleeds from a lightsaber wound (but could be a species thing)
3)the stormtroopers look way too simple compared to the ep3 troopers, i dont think they would design the ep4 suit as the next step in reality...

tpaquin
I'm so sick of people pointing out inconsistencies....


People lie. They're not infallable. When luke said, "What do you remember of your movther?" Leia wasn't gonna say, "not a thing" and then walk away. She just bullshitted like the good little senator that she was. Obi was was BLATANTLY LYING TO LUKE. End of story.

To answer these three questions...

1)He is lying
2)It's a **** up that was SUPPOSED to be fixed in the DVD
3)The clone wars was an elaborate ground battle. 19 years of nothing but gurreila spacefights has made the stormtroopers pretty much obsolete. They don't need to be elaborate, anymore.

queeq
Oh yes, OB1 is a liar, nothing new there. But Leia??? that's a new thing. I think PAdme dying was a bad choice. Makes the ROTJ convo with the teddy bears totally unbelievable. It would have been, IMHO, much more dramatic if Padme were to see her twins split up and live in a remorseful exile for the remainder of her life. Much more damage than a death... but okay. George hasn't been demonstrating a great affinity with human emotions in the PT, so what the heck eh? Lots of lightsabres probably make up for it in his view.

Lazerlike42
I don't see why people find it impossible to think Leia is talking about Bail's wife as her mother. She's like an adopted child that isn't told she is adopted until she graduates high school or something.

queeq
Because it's clear that she knows what Luke is talking about: her REAL mother. Plus the sadness-thing becomes totally irrelevant if she's talking about Bail's wife. Who cares, a lot of people were sad whn the Emperor rose to power/ Hardly worthwhile mentioning that.

astrofan428
I always thought it could be her adopted mother, but doesnt Luke emphasize "your real mother"?

queeq
Oh yes!

mephistodesigns
its not clear...he askes BEFORE he tells her she's really a Skywalker...she may not know. I think it could very easily be either. its very vague either way.

queeq
I don't think so. It's not some casual chat there. He states it clearly as "your REAL mother", and Leia doesn't look up like: "Whatcha mean my REAL mother, I only have one mother..." No, this is clearly an attempt by Luke to get a hold of his true identity, since he has so little.

Lazerlike42
Luke doesn't know that Leia was not with her (and his) real mother and that Leia and his real mother died in childbirth. He only knows they are siblings, he could very easily be assuming Leia lived with their real mother.

kashmircat
did people know that leia was adopted when rotj came out?

Lazerlike42
Originally posted by kashmircat
did people know that leia was adopted when rotj came out?

I don't know if there was any EU stuff about it but I would imagine most people didn't know it, they didn't lnow it either way. They probably assumed, just as Luke may have, that she was with her real mother.

astrofan428
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Luke doesn't know that Leia was not with her (and his) real mother and that Leia and his real mother died in childbirth. He only knows they are siblings, he could very easily be assuming Leia lived with their real mother.

That is a good point.

Unlike Luke she takes the name of her adopted parents. So she may well think Organa is her real mother.

queeq
EU stuff doesn't count. Only the canon.

And there is no doubt about this whole issue, people. Luke finds out that Leia is his sister, knowing she was raised by the Organa's. To get hold of his true identity (OB1 just told him lies about his father and the rest about Anakin is just a black mask that chopped off his hand) he asks about his mother. Since he never knew her, he hopes that his sister remembers a glimpse. It's simple, but screwed up now by ROTS.

mephistodesigns
that's true.

queeq> good point also, no reaction of "strange choice of words..." from Leia. And I don't think Lucas was making it so deep, I think it was supposed to be as simple as it seems...but then there's the whole cave in ESB which a lot of people still can't figure out. Sometimes he's just not very clear on what it is hes trying to say.

Lazerlike42
I don't think it's messed up. The point is Luke knows who raised Leia, but he doesn't have ANY clue that they weren't his real parents. Obi-wan never tells him that. Nobody tells him that, so what reason would he have to believe otherwise? Does anyone here go around thinking your parents are actually adopted even though nobody has told you anything to suggest it? No, people assume their parents are legitimate unless something indicated otherwise.

astrofan428
He does know she had a different father atleast.

queeq
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
I don't think it's messed up. The point is Luke knows who raised Leia, but he doesn't have ANY clue that they weren't his real parents. Obi-wan never tells him that. Nobody tells him that, so what reason would he have to believe otherwise? Does anyone here go around thinking your parents are actually adopted even though nobody has told you anything to suggest it? No, people assume their parents are legitimate unless something indicated otherwise.

Oh come on. Luke knows his father is Vader AND that Leia is his TWIN SISTER... Now I don't know what planet you're from but twins usually have the same father AND mother. So it is CLEAR Leia wasn't BORN an Organa and that her father is Vader and that they have the same birth mother. Luke 'has no memory of'' his real mother, maybe Leia has.

And the cave, well, there's not much to think about that. It's just great!

Lazerlike42
That's a good point. Whether or not that means he knows the mother is different is still an open question though. I think the entire subject is too shady to be clear on.

queeq
WHAT?!! *falls of chair*

Helloooo.... TWINS, TWINS, TWINS!!!

Jedi Priestess
hysterical give it up babe.........

Lazerlike42
Plenty of people are in situations where a father is not bilogical but the mother is. Luke could have assumed this:

Vader had him and Leia with their mother, then turned to the dark side and they split up, and their mother remarried Bail, and raised Leia.

Jedi Priestess
This is Star Wars not the hood tho.......

queeq
laughing out loud

Whatever, Lazer, Leia would STILL have remembered Luke's REAL mother, the whole point of that ROTJ convo. And again, ROTS screwed it all up.

bilb
TWINS... not metaphorical, ACTUAL TWINS.. pretty much ends the debate

Jedi Priestess
SEE, Bilb's a nurse she'd know. yes

bilb
laughing laughing laughing

Lazerlike42
Well I live in an upper middle class family with pretty traditional values. My situation is relatively similar to Luke's, or maybe moreso Leia's but in any case....

My father and mother split up when I was an infant and my mother went on to remarry. I lived with my grandparents, much like Luke lived with the Berus. I didn't know anything at all about my real parents until later in life. My mom had twin girls with her new husband, but the thing is I didn't realize this at first. Until I was told otherwise I just assumed we were all full siblings, and that my mother had simply married a different man. I assumed essentially the same thing I am saying Luke could have (though my father is not a master of the dark side sad )

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Plenty of people are in situations where a father is not bilogical but the mother is. Luke could have assumed this:

Vader had him and Leia with their mother, then turned to the dark side and they split up, and their mother remarried Bail, and raised Leia.

laughing

Reading too much into the subtext, you are!

and queeq> a lot of people (hopefully no one on these forums) still believe the point of the cave to mean Vader is his father, even though its really: if he continues to stike out angrily (as shown on his face during the decapitating blow) he will become what he is fighting, a Sith.

Jedi Priestess
But you are missing the POINT you fool, Padme has TWO babies in ROTS, so that pretty much ends the discussion. AGAIN

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Well I live in an upper middle class family with pretty traditional values. My situation is relatively similar to Luke's, or maybe moreso Leia's but in any case....

My father and mother split up when I was an infant and my mother went on to remarry. I lived with my grandparents, much like Luke lived with the Berus. I didn't know anything at all about my real parents until later in life. My mom had twin girls with her new husband, but the thing is I didn't realize this at first. Until I was told otherwise I just assumed we were all full siblings, and that my mother had simply married a different man. I assumed essentially the same thing I am saying Luke could have (though my father is not a master of the dark side sad )

Projecting to much of your own world onto that of another? Hmmmm?
The point remains, very wrong you are! laughing

Lazerlike42
I thought everyone assumed it was about becoming what he was fighting against....

mephistodesigns
not a lot of average movie goers. You'd like to think people would be able to figure it out...and then there are theories like you Skywalker parentage jumble theory....so I guess anythings possible.

queeq
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
Well I live in an upper middle class family with pretty traditional values. My situation is relatively similar to Luke's, or maybe moreso Leia's but in any case....

My father and mother split up when I was an infant and my mother went on to remarry. I lived with my grandparents, much like Luke lived with the Berus. I didn't know anything at all about my real parents until later in life. My mom had twin girls with her new husband, but the thing is I didn't realize this at first. Until I was told otherwise I just assumed we were all full siblings, and that my mother had simply married a different man. I assumed essentially the same thing I am saying Luke could have (though my father is not a master of the dark side sad )

And do your mother's twin girls also wonder if they had different mothers? *sigh*

THe cave isn;t taht hard, it's all there: it's a domain of evil (quoting Yoda) and all you meet there is what youcreate by what you bring with you. It's like a Dark Side mirror thingy or something. He brings in weapons to defend himself from evil, he gets something to defend against. In the end, the Dark Side domain is nmothing more than fighting your dark self. Very nice that Vader is also his father, but in teh end Luke was fighting his own demon: Vader, source of his fear. And fear leads to the Dark Side.

Lazerlike42
How does it end the discussion to say that she had twins? Nobody is debating that she had twins.... the debate is over whether or not Luke and Leia knew that Organa was not her real mother. Neither Luke nor Leia receive one piece of information to lead them to believe that she is not. Obi-wan certainly didn't tell Luke(in the film). It doesn't seem like the Organas told Leia.

I did a little research and it seems to support as well as hurt my point. My point is supported because the line "your REAL mother" is in there because in the actual script, Obi-wan tells Luke that Leia had two foster parents. This scene was cut from the movie.

It hurts my point because it has by the pen of GL that Luke knows it before hand. Although, in the same cut scene, Obi-wan also tells Luke that Owen is HIS brother and not Anakin's!

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by queeq
And do your mother's twin girls also wonder if they had different mothers? *sigh*

THe cave isn;t taht hard, it's all there: it's a domain of evil (quoting Yoda) and all you meet there is what youcreate by what you bring with you. It's like a Dark Side mirror thingy or something. He brings in weapons to defend himself from evil, he gets something to defend against. In the end, the Dark Side domain is nmothing more than fighting your dark self. Very nice that Vader is also his father, but in teh end Luke was fighting his own demon: Vader, source of his fear. And fear leads to the Dark Side.

no no no. its not about the weapons. its not a physical test. "only what you take with you" means emotional baggage (did I spell that right?). He takes in his combatative nature, the weapons do work as a physical symbol of that, but are not the catalyst for what he sees. Read Joseph Campbell's "Power of Myth" transcripts. He goes into it really well. Changed my whole view on it. Lucas also said a trimmed down version of what Campbell said on his DVD commentary for ESB.

So, Luke takes in his combatative nature, which stems from fear and agression, his own fear and aggression manifests as Vader, because that's what Luke sees as aggressive towards him and its what he fears. Luke then cuts down the symbol of fear and aggression, only to have the apparition reveal that his greatest enemy is actually himself.

queeq
Yup, those are in the novels as well. Lucas changed his mind quite a bit, but not on Luke and Leia's parents, the whole PT demonstrates that.

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
How does it end the discussion to say that she had twins? Nobody is debating that she had twins.... the debate is over whether or not Luke and Leia knew that Organa was not her real mother. Neither Luke nor Leia receive one piece of information to lead them to believe that she is not. Obi-wan certainly didn't tell Luke(in the film). It doesn't seem like the Organas told Leia.

I did a little research and it seems to support as well as hurt my point. My point is supported because the line "your REAL mother" is in there because in the actual script, Obi-wan tells Luke that Leia had two foster parents. This scene was cut from the movie.

It hurts my point because it has by the pen of GL that Luke knows it before hand. Although, in the same cut scene, Obi-wan also tells Luke that Owen is HIS brother and not Anakin's!

well luke knows he's not an Organa, he's a Skywalker. so she's a skywalker. Thus, she cannot be an Organa, so, the Organa's, whose name Leia has taken, must be her adoptive guardians, as the Lars where his guardians. Obi-wan says you and your sister were hidden. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Organa's must be Leia's guardians who gave her their name to protect her.

Jeez, queeq, I apologize all the times I ever argued that this point was unclear, I was never decided one way or another on this arguement until this day. it took someone being so totally wrong to show me how right everyone with your viewpoint was...

Lazerlike42
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
no no no. its not about the weapons. its not a physical test. "only what you take with you" means emotional baggage (did I spell that right?). He takes in his combatative nature, the weapons do work as a physical symbol of that, but are not the catalyst for what he sees. Read Joseph Campbell's "Power of Myth" transcripts. He goes into it really well. Changed my whole view on it. Lucas also said a trimmed down version of what Campbell said on his DVD commentary for ESB.

So, Luke takes in his combatative nature, which stems from fear and agression, his own fear and aggression manifests as Vader, because that's what Luke sees as aggressive towards him and its what he fears. Luke then cuts down the symbol of fear and aggression, only to have the apparition reveal that his greatest enemy is actually himself.

That's true but Luke only takes the weapons because of his combative (and probably untrusting) nature. The weapon isn't just supposed to be a SYMBOL and nothing more; it is a MANIFESTATION of his inner self.

queeq
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
no no no. its not about the weapons. its not a physical test. "only what you take with you" means emotional baggage

Basically what I said: the weapons symbolise or reflect Luke psyche... They SHOW us (hey, it's a movie, it should be visual) what Luke is feeling. He clearly nly feels secure with his weapons. It tried to say the exact same thing, meph, just in other words.

queeq
Originally posted by mephistodesigns
Jeez, queeq, I apologize all the times I ever argued that this point was unclear, I was never decided one way or another on this arguement until this day. it took someone being so totally wrong to show me how right everyone with your viewpoint was...


laughing out loud

best post of the day!! laughing out loud

And look, suddenly we all agree... even Lazer!

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by Lazerlike42
That's true but Luke only takes the weapons because of his combative (and probably untrusting) nature. The weapon isn't just supposed to be a SYMBOL and nothing more; it is a MANIFESTATION of his inner self.

that's what a physical symbol is, a MANIFESTATION of his combatative nature... but thanks for repeating me anyway...

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by queeq
Basically what I said: the weapons symbolise or reflect Luke psyche... They SHOW us (hey, it's a movie, it should be visual) what Luke is feeling. He clearly nly feels secure with his weapons. It tried to say the exact same thing, meph, just in other words.

I thought thats what you were saying, I just wasn't sure. After I re-read I realize we were basically saying the same thing! big grin

star22
Also, Leia has an afinity with their mother just like Luke has with their father. Leia could remember emotions from the very brief time she was with Padme.

The Last Son
What about the whole, "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it"? Vader had to give his lightsaber to Owen but how is that possible if the twins were hidden?

vader519
Dude, Vader does not give his saber to Owen. Have you not seen Episode 4. Remember Luke goes back to Obi-wan home, and Obi-wan gives him Anakin's lightsaber. You will see in ROTS, after Obi-wan cuts off Anakin's legs and arm, he picks up Anakin's lightsaber and takes it with him.

SithSpy
nice use of spoiler tags there vader

JediStang
What I want to happen is to sit Lucas down, have the biggest Star Wars fans sit across from him, and fire questions at him, similiar to what this thread is about. Just answering questions would make fans sit back, finally, and watch the movies and be, for the first time in 28 years............





HAPPY!

darthmaul1
I took the cave as the way of the jedi is knowledge and defence never for attack, and since he took his weapons that's a big temptation to use them, then in his mind out comes vader and he attacks and kills without hesitation and as a result if he does that he will kill himself.

ab2421
Why doesn't everyone just chill and wait for the movie to come out and just enjoy it... trying to foresee and analyze plot holes before you see the movie does you no good

star22
That is a great idea, but I really doubt that it will happen. Lucus likes to leave us wondering.

mephistodesigns
Originally posted by darthmaul1
I took the cave as the way of the jedi is knowledge and defence never for attack, and since he took his weapons that's a big temptation to use them, then in his mind out comes vader and he attacks and kills without hesitation and as a result if he does that he will kill himself.

that's what I used to think too until I heard Lucas and Joseph Campbell describe the scene in all its metaphoric detail.

Batman316
to me the Cave always meant-- Destiny

BrianWilsonJedi
there will be no plot holes left after ROTS. Well other than Leias Memories of her mother, oh and Uncle Owen not remembering C3PO. Hey other than that there will be no plot holes.

ab2421
I don't get the big deal about the droids... Owen may not have remembered that particular droid as there are many similar droids, and C-3PO also received gold plating which Owen may not have been familiar with... Also keep in mind that twenty years passed and Owen may not have remembered 3PO even if it still had the same plating.

As far as Obi-Wan, if he said he was familiar with the droids, that would have sparked questioning by Luke as to when and why, and of course Obi-Wan didn't want to address that at that time... He clearly was hiding that truth from Luke then.

mossman

ab2421
Ditto Mossman... that was interesting to read

WindDancer
Dunno if it is consider a plot hole or not. But why did Anakin looked surprise when Padme said that she was pregnant? At the end of Episode II we clearly see her and Anakin together in the wedding and she looks pregnant. Did I missed something? confused

DenKi
We saw her at the Wedding and she Looked Preggers?

There is afew years between Episode 2 and 3..

Darth Kai
I think everyone is really grasping here. It seems to me that when Luke was asking her about her mother(and he clearly asks about her REAL mother) he was doing it to hear something about his real mother. Why would Luke ask about her real mother if he didn't know the people who raised her aren't their real parents? He of course already knows who their real father is. When he asks about her REAL mother even though a woman has raised her, he knows her parents aren't their birth parents. The bottom line is that it was an oversight on George Lucas' part. How in the hell can you have memories of a parent you never even saw, unless it had something to do with the Force.

Ushgarak
I think we can all safely assume that in ROTJ Leia was talking about her real, ot adoptd, mother.

The odd thing is now is that Luke seems to have a poorer memory than Leia, because he doesn't remember her, despite identical exposure.

Stupid dumb farm boy...

yerssot
what I thought was a plot hole was Mace sudden change of thoughts:
first he goes to arrest palpatine and then when anakin enters he suddenly changes his mind and wants to murder him without a trial (ok, so he bribed courts and such, but being THE traitor that created the war is too big to just ignore, if they do, they'll get replaced and a committee or whatever would have been made to purge them from corruption)

Originally posted by WindDancer
Dunno if it is consider a plot hole or not. But why did Anakin looked surprise when Padme said that she was pregnant? At the end of Episode II we clearly see her and Anakin together in the wedding and she looks pregnant. Did I missed something? confused
those naboo-ians sure take long to get those kids out of them then

Ushgarak
How exactly was Mace going to prove it? I think he was absoutely right- no legal method would work. Palpatine had control of it all.

WindDancer
But there was a way to convict Palpatine. If I remenber correctly Obi (before facing Anakin in the lava planet) and Yoda are about the leave when Obi checks the hologram records and sees Anakin kneeling to his new master Palpatine. Obi is in shock and has discover what has happen. Now if those records could be played back I'm sure the confrontaion between Mace and Palpatine would appear. Thus Mace had proof from the hologram records. Unfortunally he's dead.

Here is another thing that is also bugging me. Why is it that Obi does not recognize R2 D2 in a New Hope? He obviously worked with him during the war and despite the memory wipe the droid retains his name. Even if he did say that "I don't remenber owning any droids" he would have recognice R2 on the spot.

Lana
Simple; he lied.

WindDancer
^ True, I forgot about that.

The Last Son
I still don't understand why Obi wan told Luke his father would have wanted him to have the lightsaber. Do you think it was wishful thinking of what he would have wanted Anakin to say or do?

yerssot
IF he remembered, why would he remember the name of "just" a droid? it's Anakins droid, not his and he is right: he never owned a droid, the council did

that and there are really thousands of astromechdroids with similar names anyway

Ushgarak
Originally posted by WindDancer
But there was a way to convict Palpatine. If I remenber correctly Obi (before facing Anakin in the lava planet) and Yoda are about the leave when Obi checks the hologram records and sees Anakin kneeling to his new master Palpatine. Obi is in shock and has discover what has happen. Now if those records could be played back I'm sure the confrontaion between Mace and Palpatine would appear. Thus Mace had proof from the hologram records. Unfortunally he's dead.

Huh???

That happened afterwards!

Palpatine didn't do any of that until AFTER the Jedi had been caught out.

There was no evidence at the point Mace went to him.

DCLXVI
Wow. I really like Mossman's post. wink

Ush> WD obviously isn't a SW "Geek", so be kind....stick out tongue

ShadowKing
R2's memory is never wiped...just 3P0's...it would be a great EU story to have R2's memory played back for Luke and Leia to see their mother and father when they were young and happy...

Lord S
I think a lot of what Obi-wan told Luke was a lie. You have to remember, he is just as guilty as Vader of trying to manipulate young Luke to join his cause.

Telling him his father gave him the lightsaber was meant to entice him...just as telling him negative things about his uncle was meant to turn him against his uncle...for the right reasons, of course.

justinday15
Could someone tell me where Anakin got the scar from. I suppose he got it in the clone wars but does anyone know who gave it to him?

astrofan428
Assaj Ventress(sp)

The chick he thought he killed in the CW cartoon.

Lazerlike42
Originally posted by Lord S
I think a lot of what Obi-wan told Luke was a lie. You have to remember, he is just as guilty as Vader of trying to manipulate young Luke to join his cause.

Telling him his father gave him the lightsaber was meant to entice him...just as telling him negative things about his uncle was meant to turn him against his uncle...for the right reasons, of course.

Obi-wan never flat out lies, he just tells everything from different point of views.

astrofan428
The lightsaber was a lie, but that didnt rally luke to his cause.

Eddy Urquia
Wrongo!! She was spaekin of Bail Organa's wife, the lady u saw him land and give him the child. That is the lady she is refering to. she does not know who luke is refering to because she does not know yet they are related and that he is her brother. So, he knows of his Aunt, but Luke is questioning her parents who brought her up in hopes that she was brought up by their real mother Padme. But she does not know anything more than Mrs Bail organa. her name is Princess Lea organa! she only knows the sadness of THAT women, a sadness that I enterpret to be Mrs Bail Organas knowledge of Padme's death and the rise of the Empire. That is her mothers sadness. luke asked in hopes she would describe their real mother, and in hope that perhaps Lea would say she was stil alive! Hopes Padme would be alive!

Eddy Urquia
Originally posted by justinday15
Could someone tell me where Anakin got the scar from. I suppose he got it in the clone wars but does anyone know who gave it to him?
Cartoon network animation clonne wars cartoon explains the scar I thaink

Lazerlike42

DoctorRocktopus
This is a bit off topic, but, after watching ROTS, I really think Bail Organa (Jimmy Smits) could have been used more of a Han Solo type character -- in his few scenes, he really did bring forth a humanity that the other main characters lacked. Using that character could have also tied up the loose ends with Leia better -- instead, Bail is nothing more than a throwaway character. Too bad for Jimmy Smits -- he could have been much more!

DeVi| D0do
I'd still like to know why the Wookie doesn't wear pants...

supercybergeek
nahh lucas made a mistake, she couldn't have know her "real mother" becasue she is f-ing dead. When we all saw ROTJ none of us though that it meant her adopted mother, everyone knew they meant Darth Vadars Wife. Lucas made many continuity mistakes in the PT.

DeVi| D0do
indeed... maybe if Padme held Leia for longer than Luke it may have been a tad bit believable... but as it is... PLOT HOLE! There's no way you can explain your way around it George. You screwed up.

supercybergeek
Same with the droid arguments. Only c3po had that gay voice, theres now way owen didn't know no matter how drunk he was!

DeVi| D0do
Owen had alzhiemers... the only explanation. And so did R2.

...and Chewie. And Palpatine, and Vader. Obi Wan had it worst. Yoda was just senile.

Robin Darkside
The ones I know of, maybe someone can clear them up...

1. In EP IV, Obi wan says to Luke "Here is your fathers lightsaber, your father wanted you to have it when your old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it......" Anakin never said anything like that to Obiwan, But I remember Obiwan taking Anakins lightsaber after the limb removal in EP III.

2. The Leia part, if she remembered her mother in EP VI, I think that point is ok, because she said images, feelings, that could have been aquired by what her adopted mother or father (Organa) told her how she was. Children would ask questions about their real parents. Funny how she didn;t know her father though, but we all know that nobody want to tell a child that story without lying to them.

3. I know this one is old, but I can never understand the whole Leia kissing Luke thing. I can never find reason for that mistake. Only that its ok to kiss your brother or sister, but it was so direct in EP V.

thats all I can think of right now

DeVi| D0do
WTF? Leia didn't even know Luke was her brother... she kissed him to make a point to Han.

Where's the mistake?

Luke asked specifically "Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?". You can't form memories from stories about a person. "Just a little bit, she died when I was very young". No shit Leia... 5 seconds old even. roll eyes (sarcastic)

George ****ed up.

ShadowKing
On viewing ANH again...Obi/Ben Kenobi says to R2, "Hello there..." and then, "..he'll be alright...". After seeing ROTS...you could read into the ANH dialogue that Obi remembers R2, but he doesn't say anything about it to Luke. R2 obviously remembers where Obi lived...he wasn't far from his hut (and there must be an EU story somewhere where R2 visited Obi's hut before...unless Obi and Bail Organa secretly kept in touch). He would not say anything to 3-P0 because he would know that his droid memory was wiped.

As far as the lightsaber gift...maybe there was a time (again, any EU stories out there) when Anakin said to Obi "...if I ever fall in battle...I want my children/child/son/daughter to have this..."

Damn George and his dangling plot lines! That's what happens when you make up the story as you're filming the movie. He should have finalized his story and script prior to filming...like most directors. That is why Grievous went from badass Jedi killer (in the Clone Wars cartoons) to cowardly punk ass machine.

kenobi2004
I have a question in mind.....now we know after the fight anakin lost all his limbs....and then he started burning ....how come when sidious stood beside him when reached anakin for help nothing burnt on him though he was wearing robe....i mean is he too powerful for fire to burn or is it a mistake,because at the same place anakin started burning because of the volcanic soil i think,

LandoSpeeder2
Originally posted by kenobi2004
I have a question in mind.....now we know after the fight anakin lost all his limbs....and then he started burning ....how come when sidious stood beside him when reached anakin for help nothing burnt on him though he was wearing robe....i mean is he too powerful for fire to burn or is it a mistake,because at the same place anakin started burning because of the volcanic soil i think, I was wondering that too...PLOT HOLE! big grin

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Soda
the main ones I can think of are:

1)obi doesnt recognise the droids (but cud be lying)
Did you see the look on his face when he first layed eyes on R2-D2?

I think he did indeed recognize the droids.

LandoSpeeder2
Originally posted by ShadowKing
As far as the lightsaber gift...maybe there was a time (again, any EU stories out there) when Anakin said to Obi "...if I ever fall in battle...I want my children/child/son/daughter to have this..."

I don't think Anakin would tell Obi Wan to give child his lightsaber, that would sound suspicious, and Jedi probably shouldn't have children. "Obi Wan, if I ever die in battle will you give my lightsaber to my child.", "Sure, if your going to quit being a Jedi."

Robin Darkside
Originally posted by LandoSpeeder2
I was wondering that too...PLOT HOLE! big grin

Its not a plot hole, Anakin was almost touching the lava when he started to burn. Palpatine wasn;t that close.

Why dont you consider the fact that lava is extremely hot, and Anakin and Obiwan were fighting over the lava on those flying things. they seemed to have no effect

yerssot
Originally posted by LandoSpeeder2
I don't think Anakin would tell Obi Wan to give child his lightsaber, that would sound suspicious, and Jedi probably shouldn't have children. "Obi Wan, if I ever die in battle will you give my lightsaber to my child.", "Sure, if your going to quit being a Jedi."
about that:
I think it's more of a "I know Anakin would want you to be jedi and fight for the ideals he once fought for, etc"

ShadowKing
The only reason Obi and Ani didn't burn while on the floating platforms were because of the force field (okay stop laughing now).

That is the only explanation. In reality...lava is so hot ( at least a thousand degrees Fahrenheit...Celsius..do the math), scientists have to wear full body silver asbestos suits just to stand within a few feet of it. The few effects besides their sweating was their clothes were singed and burnt in spots. When Vader was de-limbed, he was sliding closer to the lava river (where it was hottest). The heat ignited the clothing on what was left of his legs and traveled up his body burning( he really should not have been burnt on his chest...that was touching the ground, unless he started rolling over). By the time Palps got there, Vader clawed his way a little further up the lava flow, so he was not as close to the heat for as long a period of time.

I am such a scholar! flirt

Robin Darkside
remember this is a star wars universe, Lava may not be as hot as it is on earth. or maybe they force removed the heat during the entire battle

kenobi2004
what kinda of non-sense is this....they should all burn because of the heat plus anakin didn't touch the lava,he was far from it but still his body went on fire unlike palpatine)sidious i think it's a mistake from GL

Robin Darkside
Yes, star wars universe is exact same as ours

astrofan428
Originally posted by ShadowKing
The only reason Obi and Ani didn't burn while on the floating platforms were because of the force field (okay stop laughing now).


Yeah they did a good job of making it perfectly clear what the force field was good for.

The Last Son
Maybe this is a plot hole or not, but if Vader thought Padme died pregnant, when did he realize his kids were alive? Does anybody know?

Lazerlike42
Originally posted by The Last Son
Maybe this is a plot hole or not, but if Vader thought Padme died pregnant, when did he realize his kids were alive? Does anybody know?

He never knew she had twins, and learned of Luke either when he sensed him from the TIE in ANH or when Palpatine tells him in ESB.

The Last Son
OK when does he realize Luke had a twin sister? And can you really sense your relatives with the force if you believe them to be dead for over 19 years? Hard to believe.

Lazerlike42
The force does many things. He found out about Leia when he "read Luke's mind" in ROTJ.

The Last Son
That makes sense. It's too bad Leia never got to meet her father. They never show her looking at the ghosts in ROTJ.

mossman
Originally posted by The Last Son
OK when does he realize Luke had a twin sister? And can you really sense your relatives with the force if you believe them to be dead for over 19 years? Hard to believe.

Luke seems to realise about Leia in the instant Obi tells him the truth on Dagobah.
And isn't everything the Force enables characters to do hard to believe?
Move objects without touching them?
Leap unbelievable distances?
Generate lightning?
etc

It's a fantasy film...

The Last Son
"Excuse me Bill Nye the Science Guy"

Blu93GT
Originally posted by The Last Son
...Luke's Uncle thought that Anikan shouldn't have gotten invoved in the Clone Wars.

and for that we acuse Obi-Wan of lying?

if there was a scene with Owen telling Anakin "go kick some azz, bro!", then i would see the point - but i don't see why we need a scene with with Owen telling Anakin "please, give up this Jedi stuff and settle down on the farm" to keep Obi from being a liar.

...maybe Owen sent Ani an email, like "i worry about you sometimes, please quit fighting and come live with us on the farm, where it's safe".

The Last Son
Hilarious.

jeffr
OB1 also tells Luke in EP4 that Darth Vader killed the Jedi, when it was the storm troopers that did this.

Really lame was the "higher ground" excuse for why OB1 defeated Annakin.

DeVi| D0do
Actually, Ben tells Luke the Vader "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights". Which he did.

Obi Wan didn't exactly win because he had the high ground. He won because Anakin was being a stupid arrogant prick.

Ushgarak
Besides which, most of Vader's aiding the EMpire in jedi hunting takes place between III and IV.

zombieman
Hows this for an inconsistency: During the final battle Anakin says to Obi-Wan: "If your not with me, then your against me" to which Obi Wan replies: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". Later on after Anakin has been defeated, Obi-Wan says to him: "You were my brother, I loved you". Correct me if Im wrong, but sure love is an absolute??

The New History
Originally posted by zombieman
Hows this for an inconsistency: During the final battle Anakin says to Obi-Wan: "If your not with me, then your against me" to which Obi Wan replies: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes". Later on after Anakin has been defeated, Obi-Wan says to him: "You were my brother, I loved you". Correct me if Im wrong, but sure love is an absolute?? Heck that line "only Sith deal in absolutes" is an absolute. But Fishy on this page http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344125&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=3 explained it very well.

idiot_1185
For all of you people who think that there are plot holes you need to watch the anime disc titled "the clone wars"

and as far as ANH where you all say obi wan is lying about the droids, he isn't. He remembers them what he says is "I don't remember ever owning a droid" because R2 says he is the PROPERTY of obiwan. And all obiwan is saying is that he never ownedn R2 but he knows who R2 is.

The Last Son
I never got that impression that Obi won recognized the droids in Episode 4 until I saw the prequels. Which leads me to the question, how did Princess Lea know where he was or that artoo would find him?

pr1983
Originally posted by The Last Son
I never got that impression that Obi won recognized the droids in Episode 4 until I saw the prequels. Which leads me to the question, how did Princess Lea know where he was or that artoo would find him?

bail probably told her...

The Last Son
Ok then why didn't Bail seek the help of Yoda who was a far stronger Jedi in his own words?

DeVi| D0do
Because George didn't come up with the Yoda character until Episode V... big grin

The Last Son
So It's George's fault.

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