What compelled Anakin to go on?

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The Last Son
After he realized Padme was dead, why did Anakin continue on. He only gave himself to the Emperor for the knowledge to save her. After she is dead, what made him get up and put his helmet on every morning? Your thoughts.

socialrebel101
He needed the helmet to survive, number one. And since she was gone he had nothing to live for, so why not just continue on with the Emperor? What else was he going to do besides fall into a deep dapression? So hey, why not go with the guy that he could end up really powerful with, ya know? I see where hes coming from on that.

Rebel Racer
Originally posted by socialrebel101
He needed the helmet to survive, number one. And since she was gone he had nothing to live for, so why not just continue on with the Emperor? What else was he going to do besides fall into a deep dapression? So hey, why not go with the guy that he could end up really powerful with, ya know? I see where hes coming from on that.

Coulnd't have worded it better. My thoughts exactly.

The Ones
i was just about to say that

Rebel Racer
Ah, good. Someone back from '03. I've been looking around, but it seems most of the old school KMCers have vanished. Lance Windu, etc...

vader476
lance is still around
he just changed his name to Ken-Kenobi

Rebel Racer
Cool.

socialrebel101
Thanks guys. stick out tongue

DeVi| D0do
Palpatine was all Anakin had left. He still saw Palpatine as his friend and mentor. From his point of view the Jedi had turned against him.

Also, he wanted more power, which he could only get from Palpatine...

Cybervader
Originally posted by Rebel Racer
Ah, good. Someone back from '03. I've been looking around, but it seems most of the old school KMCers have vanished. Lance Windu, etc...

What does THAT suppose to mean?

((The_Anomaly))
im from 03!

Rebel Racer
Originally posted by Cybervader
What does THAT suppose to mean?

What do you want to know? Do you honestly not know what I was asking??? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Darth_Nefarus
Do you have any idea how much Vader must have hated himself when he awoke as Mech Vader? The realization that you helped genocide the Jedi, killed your wife and her unborn child, then realizing you're more man than machine would drive you nuts.
He kept going because he was punishing himself and because there was nothing left for him. Or so he thought.

Revan Souer
Maybe deep down he doesn't fully believe Sid or he thinks that even thou Pad is dead one day he might have the strengh to bring her back some how

Darth_Nefarus
I was thinking that too. He might also believe if he learns the darkside well enough he could overthrow Sidious and leave his armor.
but no

Revan Souer
But if darth didn't know about Luke when do you think that he worked it out

Darth Halo
If he would have known his children survived he would have maybe not turned and just lived on with his kids but maybe not cause he was not in love with Padme just addicted to her good stuff. Remeber he did not know he even had twins until Luke and his thoughts went out of hand in ROTJ

Robin Darkside
Recall that, Palpatine knew that Anakin wanted a life bigger than what it is. He wants more...
So, the death of Padme was only one, but important, factor that turned him to the darkside, but it was not all.
Padme or his attachments was not the only thing that turned him.
Palpatine had encouraged him all his life, telling him that he will be the most powerful Jedi ever, so he was a big factor cause it made him arogant and cocky.
Anakin wanted to rule the galaxy, when he was power hungry, so the death of Padme was only one factor.
I would say, Palpatine corrupted Anakins mind from the start (EP I)
Palpy: "We will look upon your carreer with great interest" Palpy already starts to begin his mind F*** up of Anakin
Anakin was only good as a boy, helps others without thought of reward.. and so on (EP I)

Palpy, not the Jedi, messed him up...Although Anakin never realizes it, cause he still follows Palpy, until EP VI

THEJEDIMASTER
I think anakin wanted to take over the galaxy after he learned all the skills from sidious as he said in the 3rd movie to padme that he will over through paply and that they can rule the galaxy together.

DeVi| D0do
Anakin falls for many reasons. One of the most important is his greed.

But I still believe the Jedi are largely to blame.

Robin Darkside
The Jedi couldn't help Anakin cause he was so secretive, he never told them that he was going to see his mother before she died (EP II) so he didn't have guidance in that respect, revenge could have been avoided. Anakin told Palpy about his revenge, and Palpy encouraged it, letting him know that its ok to take revenge, eg, Dooku.

Anakin did one thing right to talk to Yoda. Yoda told him to train himself to let go of everything he feared to lose. But, he failed to do so. Palpy corrupted him more by telling Anakin that he can save Padme, so the jedi teachings went out the door.

The Jedi had the right to not trust Anakin, they could sense much confusion in him, the jedi knew Anakin been through alot. Anakin could have gained Maces trust if he stayed out of the Palpy situation. Its a touchy subject for the Jedi, when the Darkside of the force surrounds the chancellor, and Anakin is always by his side.

So, I dont think the Jedi were to responsible because they did what they had to in that situation.

Mace was orignally going to arrest Palpy, but Anakin got in the damn way and led Mace to believe that he must be killed, so Anakin held some part in that.

Hard decisions to make, even for Jedi

p. skywalker
i have to diagree.. the jedi put anakin in that situation even though mace said himself that he didn't think ani could take it.. i do think the jedi were partly responsible for ani's turning...he couldn't help the fact that he fell for padme.. like i've said before he was to old to be trained he had expirenced to much human emotions to block them out...

Robin Darkside
they wanted Anakin by to spy on the chancellor, yes, it goes beyond the teachings. The jedi were in a desperate situation to have Anakin do that, but they didn't know Palpatine was the sith lord at the time, otherwise, they wouldn't do so. The darkside of the force has clouded their vision.
So, are they still responsible even if they dont know Palpy was sith??

DeVi| D0do
Originally posted by Robin Darkside
The Jedi couldn't help Anakin cause he was so secretive, he never told them that he was going to see his mother before she died (EP II) so he didn't have guidance in that respect, revenge could have been avoided.
Anakin was only so secretive because the Jedi said he was not allowed to have feelings for his mother or Padme. Had he been able to express his true feelings it would have been a very different story...

Robin Darkside
I guess thats kinda what I mean, Anakin had to be honest with the Jedi from the start, Palpy Knew he wasn't, so it helps him to corrupt easier.
Because he wasn't honest from the beginning, led him to the darkside, so it wasn't the Jedi's fault that Anakin wasn't truthful.

DeVi| D0do
I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree...

I believe it is largely the Jedi's fault for Anakin's fall. Anakin couldn't be honest with the Jedi because if they found out about Anakin's marriage to Padme or his attachment to his mother they'd have ended his training. Anakin was told to basically do away with any and all feeling he has. Which he can't do since he was brought up with his living mother on Tatooine. So Anakin is forced to hide his relationship with Padme and his worries about his mother.

The Jedi learn from their mistake and instead of training Luke from birth they let him grow up with his family just as Anakin did. And in the end it is Luke's love (which he aquired from leading a normal life) for his sister that leads him to destroy Vader, and it's Anakin's love for his son that brings him back to the good side.

Robin Darkside
It was Anakins fault though, because he knew the Jedi teachings from the start, but he didn't obey them.

First, they didn't want to train him because of the fear of lose of his mother. But, Obiwan didn't have a choice because he promised Quigon on his death bed. So, not the Jedi's decision to train Anakin in the first place.

With Padme, Anakin was haunted by the kiss she should have never gave him, and he can not just wish his feelings away. Anakin knew he shouldn't according to the teachings, but again he failed to obey.

The Jedi had provided him with enough teachings but Anakin just didn't want it. As Palpy said "Dont be a pawn of the Jedi council".
Anakin was a man with choices, although they were hard choices, he still made them.

Anakin wanted Padme, to become great, seek more power (Jedi's do so according to Palpy), didn't want to hide anymore.

I can see what you mean by Anakin feeling that he can not trust the council. But in the beginning, Anakin made his choices that he knew the Jedi wouldn't approve.

DeVi| D0do
I'm not really disagreeing with you, but I just think that it all comes down to the Jedi's silly beliefs about attachments etc.

It was the Jedi Council's decision to train Anakin. Yoda says to Obi-Wan "Agree with you, the Council does".

You are right. Anakin can't wish away his feelings for Padme. Which is kind of my point. Because he was brought up with his mother who taught him to love, Anakin is not able to just let go of his feelings. He failed to obey the Jedi because he couldn't obey them. And moreso, he failed to obey because the rules were stupid.

Palpatine encouraged these feelings Anakin had. The Sith were smart, unlike the Jedi. They didn't force Anakin to 'let go of everything he feared to lose'.

Darth Travizzle
He had nothing else to do with his life. Plus he's probably old enough to retire, so maybe that's just what he did for his free time.

Wickerman
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I'm not really disagreeing with you, but I just think that it all comes down to the Jedi's silly beliefs about attachments etc.

It was the Jedi Council's decision to train Anakin. Yoda says to Obi-Wan "Agree with you, the Council does".

You are right. Anakin can't wish away his feelings for Padme. Which is kind of my point. Because he was brought up with his mother who taught him to love, Anakin is not able to just let go of his feelings. He failed to obey the Jedi because he couldn't obey them. And moreso, he failed to obey because the rules were stupid.

Palpatine encouraged these feelings Anakin had. The Sith were smart, unlike the Jedi. They didn't force Anakin to 'let go of everything he feared to lose'.

that rule is there to keep the jedi from becoming too emotional. Basically that would lead to the darkside, as well seen with Anakin.
Great emotional connection = turning to the darkside. beliefs about not giving in to great emotional connection = beliefs about not giving in to the darkside.
You're saying beliefs about not giving in to great emotional connection = silly, therefore beliefs about not giving in to the darkside = silly. Wow....i'm sure glad you weren't on the Jedi Council big grin

DiamondBullets
It's all Qui-Gon's fault; he had to be a "dirty cop" and take that kid to the Jedi Temple. The Council, and even his by-the-book student told him the kid was dangerous but he didn't listen. Besides, who would bet a ship on a 9 year-old kid in a machine that can go mach 1? ( And the ship wasn't even his!, if "little Ani" lost the race, the fool would be in debted to Naboo for life,and eighty-sixed from the Jedi Order!)

Wickerman
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
It's all Qui-Gon's fault; he had to be a "dirty cop" and take that kid to the Jedi Temple. The Council, and even his by-the-book student told him the kid was dangerous but he didn't listen. Besides, who would bet a ship on a 9 year-old kid in a machine that can go mach 1? ( And the ship wasn't even his!, if "little Ani" lost the race, the fool would be in debted to Naboo for life,and eighty-sixed from the Jedi Order!)

that's right! the bastard! he was just an old fart that should've stayed in the Council and done NOTHING. Cause Sidious NEVER could've found somebody else! NO! Its all Qui Gon's fault indeed. i mean any jedi in their right mind would never help a slave boy with more midi-chlorians than yoda. You make perfect sense. And he was a loser too. I mean you GOTTA be a loser to teach yoda and consequently obi wan how to become one with the force. That bastard qui gon shifty

~wickerman~

Robin Darkside
jee, you guys are way off, nevermind

I thought people really know star wars on this forum

dflood
he realised he could rule the galaxy and be more powerful

Robin Darkside
man, shut up, nevermind, this sucks

Robin Darkside
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I'm not really disagreeing with you, but I just think that it all comes down to the Jedi's silly beliefs about attachments etc.

It was the Jedi Council's decision to train Anakin. Yoda says to Obi-Wan "Agree with you, the Council does".

You are right. Anakin can't wish away his feelings for Padme. Which is kind of my point. Because he was brought up with his mother who taught him to love, Anakin is not able to just let go of his feelings. He failed to obey the Jedi because he couldn't obey them. And moreso, he failed to obey because the rules were stupid.

Palpatine encouraged these feelings Anakin had. The Sith were smart, unlike the Jedi. They didn't force Anakin to 'let go of everything he feared to lose'.

yes, Devil Dodo, I like u, your allright, but I disagree

first, the council never really agreed with Quigon, although, he was the first to be a force ghost and all, athough, we can never know if Anakin was the man....(balance of the force)

I really was kinda stress, that it occured in the beginning, Anakin made his choices even though he knew the Jedi Teachings.

Anakin knew the Jedi teaching, but the guy didn't want to go along with it( because of Palpatine that f**ker)

I really think Palpatine was cool and all, but.....
He really did f*** over Anakin, which makes me very mad

Jack Daniels
I dont think anyone mentioned it yet....one reason to go on is his hatred ....hatred feeds the darkside power.....his hatred of OBI-WAN......that was like the last words he spoke before becoming mech vader(other than ouch eww owwie etc...lol)...I HATE YOU! He knew Obi-Wan was alive somewhere and wanted badly to have his revenge... and for many years Im sure he hated Obi-Wan...not till after he struck him down did he ever consider that it wasnt Obi-Wans fault but Sids....that everything happened the way it did.....etc....somethin like that

DeVi| D0do
Originally posted by Wickerman
that rule is there to keep the jedi from becoming too emotional. Basically that would lead to the darkside, as well seen with Anakin.
Great emotional connection = turning to the darkside. beliefs about not giving in to great emotional connection = beliefs about not giving in to the darkside.
You're saying beliefs about not giving in to great emotional connection = silly, therefore beliefs about not giving in to the darkside = silly. Wow....i'm sure glad you weren't on the Jedi Council big grin
No. That's what I'm trying to say. Great emotional connection does not equal turning to the darkside. In fact it is Anakin's great emotional connection to his son which brings him back to the light...

Originally posted by Robin Darkside
yes, Devil Dodo, I like u, your allright, but I disagree

first, the council never really agreed with Quigon, although, he was the first to be a force ghost and all, athough, we can never know if Anakin was the man....(balance of the force)

I really was kinda stress, that it occured in the beginning, Anakin made his choices even though he knew the Jedi Teachings.

Anakin knew the Jedi teaching, but the guy didn't want to go along with it( because of Palpatine that f**ker)

I really think Palpatine was cool and all, but.....
He really did f*** over Anakin, which makes me very mad
Hell, yeah. Palpatine is the most manipulative mofo in the universe!
No, the Council never really agreed with Qui-Gon. Or, moreso, Qui-Gon never agreed with the Council. As Obi-Wan say in Episode I, Qui-Gon would be on the council if he didn't keep defying them and the code. Qui-Gon saw that the Jedi were wrong in there beliefs, and thus didn't adhere to them.

This is why he was able to achieve imortality. Qui-Gon was by far the best Jedi. He followed the Force rather than following the code. This is also why Yoda submits himself to Qui-Gon's teachings at the end of Sith. Yoda realises that he was wrong - "Failed, I have" he says - but his failure is not merely the failure to defeat Sidious, but his failure to the Jedi Order.

The Last Son
Devil, you are right on. Yoda did mess up and it was the councils fault for the decline of the Republic. Like they said in EP II "our ability to use the force is deminished". They followed their own code instead of the force which led them away from what the force was supposed to be. Jack Daniels, you are right on as well. I started this thread to figure out why Vader didn't just commit suicide, but you had the right answer. Hate and revenge probably were his modivation.

Revan Souer
I think it was Obi fault that Ana turned. All the way through he's using words like my young or my something else, this would grate after a while. Also I dont think he was ready to take on a Padewan.

The Last Son
I think Obi wan said those things to counter Anakin's arrogance. People like Palpatine and Qui Gon told him how great he would be and that went to his head. Obi Won kept reminding him he was young and didn't know everything. Like your average teenager. If Anakin can't take criticism, he is an idiot and deserves what he got.

p. skywalker
It is how most padawan are refered too.. listen qui gon jump obi shit... i don't think obi himself was the cause for ani's turning.. but i still believe the jedi had a hand in it.. but it was mostly for padme and the fact he was trained too old.. and saw and felt to many emotions.. you can push emotions away for so long.. but once they are there they will always be there.

Revan Souer
Originally posted by p. skywalker
It is how most padawan are refered too.. listen qui gon jump obi shit... i don't think obi himself was the cause for ani's turning.. but i still believe the jedi had a hand in it.. but it was mostly for padme and the fact he was trained too old.. and saw and felt to many emotions.. you can push emotions away for so long.. but once they are there they will always be there.
Wise words young skywalker

Robin Darkside
good point Devil Dodo
Although, Quigon never agreed with the council usually, but that doesn't mean that he didn't believe in the teachings. he disagreed with the council not to train Anakin, but knew he was the choosen one, cause Quigon was the best Jedi in that respect.

yoda: 'Failed I have"

Um...quite possible yoda was thinking that he may have failed the jedi order.
But I still think that Yoda actually did mean that he failed to bring down the sith, cause that was his purpose at the time.

p. skywalker
thanks revan.....

as far as yoda goes i think it was a little bit of both on the feelings of failing.. i think he couldn't believed that he fell to sidious.. and that he couldn't belive that he falied to see the fall of the jedi coming.. i know he knew the darkside clouded his vision.. but i think he felt like he should have seen or felt something..

Robin Darkside
Originally posted by p. skywalker
thanks revan.....

as far as yoda goes i think it was a little bit of both on the feelings of failing.. i think he couldn't believed that he fell to sidious.. and that he couldn't belive that he falied to see the fall of the jedi coming.. i know he knew the darkside clouded his vision.. but i think he felt like he should have seen or felt something..

quite possible

koolruningz
Good to see some compelling discussions going on.
I think the most obvious reason for Vader (as he is known by this point) to go on is the fact that he is consumed by the darkside. He is no longer the Anakin we knew, he has committed some dark acts and the darkside is like a drug the more you use it the more you want.
All he has left is the darkside, anger, hatred and revenge. Palpatine being the master manipulator that he is would have pulled the right strings to get Vader right where he wants him, as demonstrated with the lie he tells Vader about Padmes death.

Wickerman
i think you're exaggerating a bit with the whole "Failed i have" thing. If you ask Lucas (which won't happen anytime soon) i think he'll say he was just talking about failing to defeat Sidious. You're analyzing this too much, not to mention the timing for saying "Failed i have" concerning his failure to the jedi order would have been WAY too late. If it WERE about him failing the order, he would've said it earlier.

~wickerman~

DeVi| D0do
The cut-scene between Yoda and Qui-Gon explores the idea of Yoda's failure further... Yoda says "Still much to learn, there is A great Jedi Master you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice a gratefully become"

jabbar
He stayed on because he wanted to have revenge on the remaining Jedi, and complete the Jedi purge. He hates the Jedi, and blames them for teh death of Padme.

jabbar
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do

...
The Jedi learn from their mistake and instead of training Luke from birth they let him grow up with his family just as Anakin did. And in the end it is Luke's love (which he aquired from leading a normal life) for his sister that leads him to destroy Vader, and it's Anakin's love for his son that brings him back to the good side.

The reason why they didn't train luke from the start is because if they did, vader would find out and kill him. So they waited until he was older, and luke could defend himself more effectivly, and also his training would be faster (as he is older).

Robin Darkside
Before yoda vs sidious fight, Yoda says "if so powerful you are, then why leave?"
Palpy: "You can not stop me, lord Vader will become stronger then the both of us"

Yoda: "not if anything to say about it, I do"

So yoda is implying that he must defeat the sith, so I think he means by "Failed I have" that he failed to kill Palpy, and the sith will now rule the galaxy.

DeVi| D0do
I'm not saying that Yoda meant that his failure is anything other than his failure to kill Sidious... But I believe his failure is on many other and more important levels than just this, even if Yoda doesn't recognise this himself.

What ever... this is another thing that has been discussed to death and which I've made my opinions clear countless times in countless threads but we seem to keep going round in circles.

Originally posted by jabbar
The reason why they didn't train luke from the start is because if they did, vader would find out and kill him. So they waited until he was older, and luke could defend himself more effectivly, and also his training would be faster (as he is older).
I don't believe that. If they believed it was better to train people from an older age why do they train them in the PT from very young?

Wickerman
Originally posted by Robin Darkside
Before yoda vs sidious fight, Yoda says "if so powerful you are, then why leave?"
Palpy: "You can not stop me, lord Vader will become stronger then the both of us"

Yoda: "not if anything to say about it, I do"

So yoda is implying that he must defeat the sith, so I think he means by "Failed I have" that he failed to kill Palpy, and the sith will now rule the galaxy.

that's exactly what i'm saying as well.
As for the qui gon and yoda scene, i'm sure it'd imply more levels of "failing", but i was just saying when yoda says "Failed i have" he's not referring to his entire series of mistakes.

~wickerman~

jabbar
Originally posted by Robin Darkside
Before yoda vs sidious fight, Yoda says "if so powerful you are, then why leave?"
Palpy: "You can not stop me, lord Vader will become stronger then the both of us"

Yoda: "not if anything to say about it, I do"

So yoda is implying that he must defeat the sith, so I think he means by "Failed I have" that he failed to kill Palpy, and the sith will now rule the galaxy.

Correction: Yoda says, (after Palpy says: "You can not stop me, lord Vader will become stronger then either of us"wink:

Yoda: "Misplaced is your faith in your new apprentice, as is your faith in the dark side of the force"

(man, those are cool lines!)

DeVi| D0do
Originally posted by Wickerman
that's exactly what i'm saying as well.
As for the qui gon and yoda scene, i'm sure it'd imply more levels of "failing", but i was just saying when yoda says "Failed i have" he's not referring to his entire series of mistakes.

~wickerman~
Yeah, ok, I agree with that.

Robin Darkside
Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
I'm not saying that Yoda meant that his failure is anything other than his failure to kill Sidious... But I believe his failure is on many other and more important levels than just this, even if Yoda doesn't recognise this himself.

What ever... this is another thing that has been discussed to death and which I've made my opinions clear countless times in countless threads but we seem to keep going round in circles.


I don't believe that. If they believed it was better to train people from an older age why do they train them in the PT from very young?

lol, yes things tend to go in circles, the whole Why Luke was not trained as a kid? idea makes my head hurt.

I still believe that Obiwan was waiting for the right time to train Luke, which is EP IV, and Obiwan didn't want Luke to end up like his father.

Wickerman
Originally posted by Robin Darkside
lol, yes things tend to go in circles, the whole Why Luke was not trained as a kid? idea makes my head hurt.

I still believe that Obiwan was waiting for the right time to train Luke, which is EP IV, and Obiwan didn't want Luke to end up like his father.

perhaps he suspected that if he trained Luke and there'd be two Jedi in the same place Vader or the Emperor might sense them. And if they sensed them, Obi Wan and Luke couldn't face them both (since Luke would be too young and weak). In Ep. IV though things are a bit different.

~wickerman~

Robin Darkside
yeah, it was most likely because Obiwan wanted to keep him safe, and prevent Vader and the emperor from sensing Luke with the force.

I wonder how it works though, because Luke and Vader sense eachother only when they are close, not from afar. Unless, maybe one day Vader will show up on Tattoine.

Cipher
Anakin decided that he was evil and no good, so he chose to go with that.

That's why he says his old name doesn't have any meaning anymore.....

He has buried himself in the Vader persona and only faces up to what he's
done as he's watching Luke get zapped by Palpatine......

Wickerman
Originally posted by Robin Darkside
I wonder how it works though, because Luke and Vader sense eachother only when they are close, not from afar. Unless, maybe one day Vader will show up on Tattoine.

i can see two possible explanations for this:

1. Vader lost a crapload of power when he lost his limbs, in the form of lost midichlorians. He might have lost some "finding" power, but Obi Wan may have not realized that and prefered to keep Luke safe.

2. Vader simply didn't have any reason to scan the galaxy for his son/daughter, not having known they were actually born. However Obi might've thought the day would eventually come when he WOULD find out somehow.

I'd prefer to go with the second one

~wickerman~

PVS
vader was compelled to go on because of his lust for power.
the thought of killing palpatine and taking his place as ruler of the galaxy
is what got him up in the morning. simple as that.

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