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Battle takes place on Mustafar where Anakin and Kenobi battled.

All out.

No rest, the strike team is staggered , meaning as soon as one person dies, a person from the backup pool jumps into the fight (in the order listed).

Do Yoda and Sidious have the skill and stamina to clear?

Main team: Exar Kun, Zonakin*, Dooku

Backup:
1) Kenobi
2) Mace Windu**
3) Galen Marek
4) Plagueis

*Zonakin does not equal Mortakin
**In order to avoid the "Did Sidious throw the fight" debates, just state your assumption flat out when posting you decision.

I'm not sure the team even needs back up.

Yeah, pretty sure the original team wins, maybe easily. Zonakin is just that good. Its one of those unbeatable force imbued moments that can only be created by literature. Obi wan has a few, ghanner rhysode has one, luke has been given quite a few. They are rudiculous, but canon, and by specifying zonakin, you make him pretty unbeatable.

Zonakin isn't pull potential Anakin. I don't think he could take either Sidious or Yoda.
I think Kun is the strongest on the main team.

Sidious and Yoda both outclass any individual on the strike team.
I think what makes this pretty even, is that the numbers and quality of the strike team eventually takes a toll on them.

Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it. I'm not sure if Kun is the strongest on the main team. I think Kun outclasses Dooku, but I'm not sure if he can make him a joke like Zonakin did. Either way, I'm not convinced that Zonakin is stronger than than Sidious or Yoda.

Zoneakin can hold off Yoda or Sidious long enough for Exar and Dooku to flatten either of the duo. Yoda and Sidious are all above people like Mace, Exar, and Dooku, but a pair of them is far too much.

With that many people attacking them, and characters Exar Kun, Zonakin and Plagueis, they get worn down quickly and lose. Exar Kun is dangerous to the team because of his mastery of esoteric abilities that, if the Jedi Academy trilogy is any indication (the entire order struggles against his spirit), far exceed those of the team's normal adversaries. Although Yoda has had dealings with beings just as mastered in arcane Force abilities like Rell, and Sidious has met Mother Talzin. I'd say all in all team one messes up and Zonakin at least does enough damage to ensure they don't make it past Plagueis, if they get that far.

Backup is unneeded. Epic stomp.

Backup is probably needed tbh.

Nah, I'd say the original strike team can take this.

Dooku on his own is a threat to Yoda and Sids although they would likely beat him eventually. Zonakin is technically Anakin tapping his potential which means he spikes higher than Yoda or Sids and then you add in Kun who can rain down shit from the back row.... GG.

Zonakin can take yoda or sidious.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Dooku on his own is a threat to Yoda and Sids although they would likely beat him eventually. Zonakin is technically Anakin tapping his potential which means he spikes higher than Yoda or Sids and then you add in Kun who can rain down shit from the back row.... GG.

Is there evidence that indicates that Anakin was actually tapping into his full potential rather than tapping into the darkside? I don't own the book, but here are some of the quotes I could find about the battle between Anakin and Dooku:

Pages 76 - 79



It seems like Palpatine goaded Anakin just like he tried to goad Luke, except this time, he was successful. Was Luke "in the zone" when he started wailing on Vader or was he falling to the darkside?

Anyways, if the consensus is that Zonakin == full potential Anakin, then let's replace him with EmoSithAkin.

Is that from the novel or a fanfic? It reads like the latter, and I forget how stupidly out of touch the novel was with the film. Kit Fisto on mah desk indeed.

No, the novel is great. You suck.

Zonakin alone would defeat Yoda or Sidious. With the help of Kun and Dooku, it's an absolute curbstomp.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, the novel is great. You suck.

THOU MAD, BRETHREN?

I don't care for the horrible inconsistencies between the RotS novel and the movie (far worse than any of the novelizations excepting TPM) and it became a bias-weapon during the height of Anakin wanking, so I don't like it for that reason either.

Stover is a good author, but he should have passed on this one. It didn't help that he was, IIRC, given a copy of the script which predates the film release. You know, the one where Dooku was deliberately baiting Anakin instead of stomping?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Backup is unneeded. Epic stomp.
You don't say? Finally not scared to take a stance eh? Sorry sharpshooter but your absolute stance doesn't cut it... how do they stomp Sids and Yoda?

Zonakin and Kun are equal to both Sidious and Yoda and Dooku can last a while against them too.

And Yoda has limited stamina while Sidious struggling against Mace and Yoda indiicates he isn't well above either. Plus neither have worked together and their ability to mesh would be tenious at best. Thus Yoda would either have to work around Sidious or vice versa but they wouldn't be speed blitzing. In fact in the mythos power duels usually favor the single combatant, since the lack of utter cohesion lprevents a direct stacking of strength. Case in point, Maul, Dooku, Etc. I can't think of a subversion to this rule.

Either Yoda or Sidious is above anybody on the team though... Which feats of Kun and Dooku beating somebody on the level of Yoda or Sidious back up your claim that they can hang with them or awhile? Dooku kinda hung with Yoda... but in both instances it was made clear Yoda was his clear superior and Dooku fled after a brief affair. Not very convincing. So who did Kun beat or stalemate on their level again?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Is that from the novel or a fanfic? It reads like the latter, and I forget how stupidly out of touch the novel was with the film. Kit Fisto on mah desk indeed.

I assumed that people got the concept of "Zonakin" from the novel. Like I said, I never read the novel, but that scene seems to go with what happened in the movie. Here's a refresher of the movie:



So at least to me, both the novel and the movie make it look like Anakin was just tapping into the dark side and not his full potential.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, Anakin's and Dooku's penultimate encounter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8ycYOpltqM

Dooku seems to be holding back for parts of the fight, but Anakin does seem to match him here and there. At certain points, he even overpowers him. So perhaps Dooku wasn't as far ahead of plain Anakin as people would like to believe.

So my question is: Where did the idea of "Zonakin = Full Potential Anakin" come from, and what proof supports that idea?

Since when was Zonakin on par with Yoda?

Originally posted by red8
I assumed that people got the concept of "Zonakin" from the novel. Like I said, I never read the novel, but that scene seems to go with what happened in the movie. Here's a refresher of the movie:



So at least to me, both the novel and the movie make it look like Anakin was just tapping into the dark side and not his full potential.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, Anakin's and Dooku's penultimate encounter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8ycYOpltqM

Dooku seems to be holding back for parts of the fight, but Anakin does seem to match him here and there. At certain points, he even overpowers him. So perhaps Dooku wasn't as far ahead of plain Anakin as people would like to believe.

So my question is: Where did the idea of "Zonakin = Full Potential Anakin" come from, and what proof supports that idea?

It was always my opinion that Anakin was merely tapping the dark side too.

He tapped the dark sides sweet, sweet ass during his fight with Kenobi too, but wasn't near as powerful that time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He tapped the dark sides sweet, sweet ass during his fight with Kenobi too, but wasn't near as powerful that time.

The Dark Side has a refractory period.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Dooku on his own is a threat to Yoda and Sids although they would likely beat him eventually.


No, Dooku is not. He really didn't have much of a chance of defeating Yoda whose light side powers were diminished on the dark side nexus of Vjun, and who was struggling to fight off the temptation of the dark side (not the best state of mind while trying to focus on defeating your opponent), while Dooku was taking full advantage of the amp the dark side nexus gave him. Basically: Dooku, at his best, was forced to flee from Yoda, who was perhaps at his worst. Their fight on Geonosis had Yoda holding back and not attacking Dooku with the force at all other than a redirected lightning attack in which Dooku was capable of deflecting. So I don't assume Yoda was trying his hardest to take Dooku out in a saber duel either considering how he held back immensely in their force duel. Not to mention Yoda expresses that he had love for Dooku in DR. So, no, Dooku is no threat to Yoda or Sidious, and they both can defeat Dooku in a very decisive manner, which is why he was hesitant in overthrowing Sidious with the help of Ventress.

And if you don't agree with that assessment, you only need to compare Dooku's performance against Ventress and Savage to Sidious performance against Maul (who is considerably more powerful than Ventress) and Savage (who was more trained and more powerful than when he faced Dooku). The former struggled and fought for his life against his duo, while the latter was casually playing and not giving it his all with his duo (Sidious wasn't even trying to kill Maul, at that). Furthermore, Sidious proved that he can easily over power Maul and Savage at the same time with the force alone, without even having to resort to using his saber Sidious is above Dooku by a decent amount, as is Yoda, who is practically Sidious' equal.


Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Zonakin is technically Anakin tapping his potential which means he spikes higher than Yoda or Sids


No, that was Anakin tapping into his raw power that he had at the time (raw power shouldn't be confused with potential), which enhanced his physical strength, enabling him to batter down Dooku's defenses, nothing more (well, nothing more that can be proven anyway). His defeating of Dooku has no bearing on how he'd do against Yoda and Sidious, considering that they both are physically superior to Dooku in every way. Just like Savage's disarming and flooring of Dooku had no bearing on how he did against Sidious, who was not only able to handle Savage's strength with one arm, but was capable of overpowering the zabrak with his own physical strength, being able to send Savage him flying with a kick.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He tapped the dark sides sweet, sweet ass during his fight with Kenobi too, but wasn't near as powerful that time.

That could be to do with his rage getting the better of him against Kenobi, whilst against Dooku he seemed to be the one controlling his rage for his beneift (i.e. Pristine Clarity).


The better proof of a "ZonAkin" existing would be his overpowering of the Son and Daughter Imo.

Originally posted by Based
Since when was Zonakin on par with Yoda?

Possibly superior to Yoda after we saw him overpower the Son and Daughter.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Possibly superior to Yoda after we saw him overpower the Son and Daughter.

Which cannot be proved that he can do this at will on anywhere outside of Mortis.

Originally posted by Based
Which cannot be proved that he can do this at will on anywhere outside of Mortis.

Well he can't do it at will hence the "Zone" status.

But I'd turn that around and say it cannot be proven that Skywalker received a greater amp on Mortis than the Son and Daughter.

When I created this topic, here are some of the assumptions I had.

1) Zonakin is defined as the Anakin we see killing Dooku.
2) Mortakin is defined as the Anakin we see overpowering the Son and Daughter.
3)
Zonakin = Anakin tapping into the dark side.
Mortakin = Anakin tapping into his full potential.
Mortakin >>>>>> Zonakin

I guess if we instead define Zonakin as Anakin tapping into his full potential, we should think about the Anakin on Mortis rather than the Anakin on the Invisible Hand.

But then we would need to find a way to differentiate the Anakin fighting Dooku and the Anakin fighting Kenobi. Maybe Sith Anakin with clarity vs Sith Anakin emotional or Sithakin vs Emokin?