Exar Kun vs. Revan

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Stigma
Both at their peak.

Setting: Lehon, Temple of the Ancients

Old school rounds:
1) sabers
2) force
3) all-out

Who wins this?

Nephthys
Kun

Stigma
Would you say it's close or a solid victory?

Nephthys
Revan can certainly give Kun a better fight than he can Vitiate.

Revanchiste
Death battle !!!! Thiz iz cloze !!!!!
Zo cloze !!!!

Before awnzering I will make a topic.

Revanchiste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qj4hyQxbTs&list=UUm7imB9QanTySN-Lfae0SIQ

Sinious
Originally posted by Nephthys
Kun

Marco1907
Exar.

Revanchiste
I have a 51%/49% with Kun on an other Topic.

Revan iz cappable of hurting Kuun with the force and rezit Kun blow not all of them but.. You know what I mean...

S_W_LeGenD
Revan solidly

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan solidly

Revanchiste
It'z a cloze fight I'v already zee thiz before.. ANd I know that CLOZE AZ HELL !!!!!!!

Revan get the force edge with a 8,79 to 6.69/10 (depending of the zetting)
Exaar Kun get the light zaber edge with 6.89/10 (neutral ground...)

Zo the all out....

Revan light zaber zkill are above a battle mazter light zaber zkill..... Exactly twice.

AncientPower
Kun no doubt.

NewGuy01
They're probably evenly matched tbh.

DarthAnt66
Eh, Kun's hype doesn't live up to his feats even remotely.

AncientPower
Yes it does, two mass drain feats with marginal aid from temples he built are greater feats than anything Revan has.

Sorcery knowledge and powers greater than almost anyone in galactic history.

As nothing more than an essence he was amping Kyp Durron immensely and one shotted Luke Skywalker, tearing his spirit from his body. This is despite the fact he lacked any Force reserves and couldn't draw any power from his temples.

He was creating and twisting everything under the sky, from Terentateks to night beasts and even the Dark Reaper superweapon.

He was completely dominating the likes of Durron and Streen, infact as soon as Kun was cast into the void Durron immediately lacked any Dark Side corruption.

Kun has also displayed high tier feats with Force Flight and even Protection bubbled bombing runs before whilst walking nonchalantly.

Not to mention Force Stunning the senate which apparently had ten thousand members whilst roflstomping Master Baas.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes it does, two mass drain feats with marginal aid from temples he built are greater feats than anything Revan has.
We cannot compare Revan and Exar Kun in this regard because Revan doesn't uses Force Drain extensively.

Revan have relatively superior demonstrations in raw power and combat prowess by the way which are more appropriate to consider for this topic.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sorcery knowledge and powers greater than almost anyone in galactic history.
This is a joke, right?

Emperor Vitiate says hello.

Revan is also an absolute master of dark arts, his command and knowledge of the Force outstrip majority in the mythos as apparent from reactions of those who have met him in life and even legends such as Darth Bane. I don't think that Exar Kun have noticeably advantage in this aspect, just that Kun benefits from greater exploration in the lore in the use of dark arts in comparison.

Originally posted by AncientPower
As nothing more than an essence he was amping Kyp Durron immensely and one shotted Luke Skywalker, tearing his spirit from his body. This is despite the fact he lacked any Force reserves and couldn't draw any power from his temples.
Star Wars: The Essential Chronology contradicts your claim:

Luke Skywalker confronted him there in a titanic duel of Jedi powers. But the spirit of Exar Kun finally revealed himself in order to assist Durron, using all the powers of a Dark Lord of the Sith. Even a Jedi Master could not withstand such an onslaught, and the two of them overwhelmed the Skywalker, leaving him for the dead.

Exar Kun was in the position to unleash his full power while possessing Kyp Durron. In-fact, the aforementioned statement reveals that the latter's own powers also helped.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He was creating and twisting everything under the sky, from Terentateks to night beasts and even the Dark Reaper superweapon.
Good for him. Now how this helps him against Revan?

Originally posted by AncientPower
He was completely dominating the likes of Durron and Streen, infact as soon as Kun was cast into the void Durron immediately lacked any Dark Side corruption.
And? They were "padawans" at that time.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun has also displayed high tier feats with Force Flight and even Protection bubbled bombing runs before whilst walking nonchalantly.
Revan can conjure Protection Bubble as well. And can even teleport at will during combat situations (immensely useful talent and fantastic display of command of the Force).

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not to mention Force Stunning the senate which apparently had ten thousand members whilst roflstomping Master Baas.
He pulled this off with use of amulet, if I am not mistaken. Also, normal individuals ended-up hypnotized but the Jedi remained unaffected. This indicates that some so-called great powers of Exar Kun are useless against those who aren't defenseless.

Not trying to undermine Exar Kun, he is very impressive indeed. However, I am setting the record straight.

Angelalex242
Exar probably puts up a better fight as a Sith Spirit...not sure it's enough.

AncientPower
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD We cannot compare Revan and Exar Kun in this regard because Revan doesn't uses Force Drain extensively.

Revan have relatively superior demonstrations in raw power and combat prowess by the way which are more appropriate to consider for this topic.

I'll take this as a concession on your part.

No he has not, Exar Kun is factually stated to be more powerful (by varying degrees) than the following individuals:

Tulak Hord, Naga Sadow, Ulic Qel-Droma, Vodo Siosk Baas, Odan Urr, Sorzus Syn, Ajunta Pall, Ludo Kressh, Freedon Nadd, Ood Bnar, Nomi Sunrider, Arca Jeth, Vandar, XoXaan, Marka Ragnos, Aleema Keto and perhaps more important than any of them, the Sith Emperor as of 4040BBY.

This due to the statements that Kun was far more powerful than any one Jedi of his time and is also stated to have once been the most powerful Sith Lord ever, later surpassed by the Sith Emperor of course 300 years later.

Emperor Vitiate says hello.

Revan is also an absolute master of dark arts, his command and knowledge of the Force outstrip majority in the mythos as apparent from reactions of those who have met him in life and even legends such as Darth Bane. I don't think that Exar Kun have noticeably advantage in this aspect, just that Kun benefits from greater exploration in the lore in the use of dark arts in comparison.

Emperor Vitiate has one shotted Revan twice, using him is a terrible example on your part.

Revan has not shown any major sorcery knowledge beyond the Thought Bomb and an unknown list of other techniques in his holocron.

Exar Kun has the full knowledge of Naga Sadow and Freedon Nadd and has been listed as one of the greatest sorcerers of all time, compared even to Reborn Palpatine. Infact it is stated that it is highly unlikely that the full knowledge of sorcery survived Kun's death.

Star Wars: The Essential Chronology contradicts your claim:

Luke Skywalker confronted him there in a titanic duel of Jedi powers. But the spirit of Exar Kun finally revealed himself in order to assist Durron, using all the powers of a Dark Lord of the Sith. Even a Jedi Master could not withstand such an onslaught, and the two of them overwhelmed the Skywalker, leaving him for the dead.

Exar Kun was in the position to unleash his full power while possessing Kyp Durron. In-fact, the aforementioned statement reveals that the latter's own powers also helped.

Said quote ignores the statement that Kyp's powers were feeble in comparison to Kun's and Kun was draining on the emotions/reserves of others such as when he drained Gantoris.

Also the only powers Kyp used were through Kun himself which were a crystal corruption technique and a black variant of Force Lightning that Kyp never displayed any other time.

Good for him. Now how this helps him against Revan?

It proves Kun's prowess as a sorcerer and reinforces his position as one of the greatest sorcerers that ever lived.


and? They were "padawans" at that time.

Padawans? Please do further research they were Force prodigies in ages of 20 and over with much experience, Luke Skywalker states they were Jedi Knights not even a month after the Kun events.



Just because he has the knowledge doesn't mean he will perform to the same degree. He can teleport whilst amped and on a platform with which evidently everyone was able to teleport(the operation variant that is).

Exar Kun is able to effortlessly absorb and/or shrug off high techniques of the magnitude of Sever Force and Force Blast from such powerful Jedi as Odan Urr.

He pulled this off with use of amulet, if I am not mistaken. Also, normal individuals ended-up hypnotized but the Jedi remained unaffected. This indicates that some so-called great powers of Exar Kun are useless against those who aren't defenseless.

Not trying to undermine Exar Kun, he is very impressive indeed. However, I am setting the record straight.
The amulet is only ever stated to allow him to channel his rage and only then via Force Blast. You are ignoring the magnitude of the ability which is in actual fact the largest use of Force Stun on record, 10,000.

You also fail to take into account that he utterly destroyed Vodo Siosk Baas whilst doing so.

Angelalex242
Depends on what kind of sorcery you're talking about. Vitiate was master of 'spend 3 months on a ritual' type Sorcery. Exar Kun was more a fan of spells he could 'quick cast.'

Vitaite's 3 months long rituals tend not to help him in duels, after all.

Anyway's, Kun's best tricks as a duelist is his ability to constantly change the size of the weapon and the forms he's using. Playing a trickery game isn't likely to help against a dedicated precognition guy.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
I'll take this as a concession on your part.
It isn't. You are comparing apples and oranges.

You should compare Exar Kun and Revan in matters where they can be compared and a logical inference can be drawn from such a comparison for meaningful contribution in this debate.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Emperor Vitiate has one shotted Revan twice, using him is a terrible example on your part.
You claimed earlier that Exar Kun is the most powerful master of dark arts with unparalleled command of sorcery: "Sorcery knowledge and powers greater than almost anyone in galactic history." (Memory problems?)

This is why I cited the example of Emperor Vitiate to refute your claim.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Revan has not shown any major sorcery knowledge beyond the Thought Bomb and an unknown list of other techniques in his holocron.
Revan haven't been directly hyped as a Sith Sorcerer but his knowledge of the dark arts is immense nonetheless:

To Bane it seemed the teachings contained within the single Holocron surpassed those of the Academy's entire archives. Revan had discovered many of the rituals of the ancient Sith, and as the Holocron's avatar explained their nature and purpose, Bane could barely wrap his mind around their awesome potential. Some of the rituals were so terrible-so dangerous to attempt, even for a true Sith Master-that he doubted he would ever dare to use them. Yet he dutifully copied them down on sheaves of flimsi, preserving them so he could study them in greater depth later.

And there was far more than just the ancient practices of dark side sorcerers stored inside the Holocron. In only a few short weeks he'd learned more about the true nature of the dark side than he had in all his time on Korriban. Revan had been a true Sith Lord, unlike the simpering Masters who bowed to Kaan and his Brotherhood. (Taken from Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)

This was Revan before his prime, his knowledge and understanding of the Force grew further afterwards.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun has the full knowledge of Naga Sadow and Freedon Nadd and has been listed as one of the greatest sorcerers of all time, compared even to Reborn Palpatine. Infact it is stated that it is highly unlikely that the full knowledge of sorcery survived Kun's death.
It wouldn't surprise me if it is established that Revan have full knowledge of those Dark Lords and many more, Revan explored entire worlds for knowledge of dark arts to improve his understanding of the ways of the Force and Malachor V had been a treasure-trove that few had the opportunity to plunder and explore for knowledge of dark arts in galactic history.

Wars are responsible for elimination of records and knowledge of dark arts that could be useful for consultations in the future, this have happened several times. However, efforts have been made for recovery of such knowledge with great deal of success on some occasions throughout galactic history, and sometimes ancient Dark Lords would make a comeback to impart their knowledge into those whom they could seduce to restart Sith agenda, and these developments would also facilitate in recovery of lost knowledge.

Emperor Vitiate managed to acquire full extent of knowledge of ancient dark arts from his efforts and even more:

In his relentless pursuit of immortality, the Emperor explored the most sinister, uncharted depths of the dark side. (Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)

However, it is most unfortunate that he wasn't planning to have a successor and did not spread his knowledge to full extent among his followers. Nonetheless, historians of his Empire managed to obtain impressive knowledge on their own. For example: Darth Thanaton managed to obtain knowledge of Ajunta Pall, Tulak Hord, Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos, from his efforts while spearheading the position of Ancient Knowledge in the Dark Council. And I am not even touching the part of Dread Masters who have shown such command of Sith sorcery that they have duplicated impressive talents of The Ones.

The statement that full knowledge of sorcery perished with Kun is premature to cling-to but I would interpret it in the way that no one was able to re-acquire knowledge of his level after his final demise in NJO era. However, Darth Krayt did manage to acquire decent knowledge from ancient instructors themselves, if not on par.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Said quote ignores the statement that Kyp's powers were feeble in comparison to Kun's and Kun was draining on the emotions/reserves of others such as when he drained Gantoris.
Maybe you should offer proof to verify your statement.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Also the only powers Kyp used were through Kun himself which were a crystal corruption technique and a black variant of Force Lightning that Kyp never displayed any other time.
I am not getting in the details, I am simply pointing out that Kyp Durron, while being augmented by full power of Exar Kun, overwhelmed Luke Skywalker.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It proves Kun's prowess as a sorcerer and reinforces his position as one of the greatest sorcerers that ever lived.
And since when was this in doubt?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Padawans? Please do further research they were Force prodigies in ages of 20 and over with much experience, Luke Skywalker states they were Jedi Knights not even a month after the Kun events.
This is foolish hype and nonsense. They had good potential and were talented in the ways of the Force but they didn't had the training and experience of Jedi Masters at that time and could be easily manipulated or seduced by a powerful Dark Lord for his whims. In short, they were padawans and were vulnerable.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Just because he has the knowledge doesn't mean he will perform to the same degree. He can teleport whilst amped and on a platform with which evidently everyone was able to teleport(the operation variant that is).
Have you seen Revan's fight against the Imperial Strike Team on the Foundry? Revan conjured up a Protection Bubble to protect himself from further harm during combat before he teleported from that location to safety. Therefore, Revan have proven his proficiency in this talent with this feat.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun is able to effortlessly absorb and/or shrug off high techniques of the magnitude of Sever Force and Force Blast from such powerful Jedi as Odan Urr.
Good for him.

Now, Revan had surpassed every Jedi in power during the era of Mandalorian Wars. He exponentially grew in power afterwards and reached a point that he could one-shot one of the most powerful Sith in the galaxy. Do the math.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The amulet is only ever stated to allow him to channel his rage and only then via Force Blast. You are ignoring the magnitude of the ability which is in actual fact the largest use of Force Stun on record, 10,000.

You also fail to take into account that he utterly destroyed Vodo Siosk Baas whilst doing so.
Amulets amplify his rage and emotions and make it possible for him to unleash more powerful attacks then he would in norm.

As for Vodo Siosk Baas, not a single Jedi of Exar Kun's era holds a candle to power of Revan.

The Merchant
He did a spell to enchant the audience in the Senate, not saying it's not impressive but yeah. Also I don't think the statement from Factfile should be used where it says he's called the Strongest Sith Lord ever. Hord and the Dark Jedi Exiles are probably stronger than him, and neither the Vitiate since if I'm not mistaken he already did his ritual that gave him immortality and has his own quotes where he's the strongest Dark-side master during that time.

The Merchant
The dread masters aren't on the level of the Ones....

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
The dread masters aren't on the level of the Ones....
My point is that they have duplicated some of their talents.

- Shape-shifting
- Reviving the dead
- Teleportation
- Bending time and space to shift between realms and even shift targets in the same manner
- Telepathic powers
- Immortality

And more crazy stuff...

AncientPower
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It isn't. You are comparing apples and oranges.

You should compare Exar Kun and Revan in matters where they can be compared a logical inference can be drawn from such a comparison for meaningful contribution in this debate.

That is a cop out, a huge blatant cop out, I guess we can't site Force Storm in a Sidious vs ___ debate because his opponent isn't knowledgeable.

Force Drain is a highly advanced technique and Kun could absorb thousands upon thousands of beings at will without the aid of a ritual or Force Wound.




"Almost anyone" as in not everyone.




Yet Exar Kun has the full knowledge of Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd is stated to have knowledge of every technique in the Tales of the Jedi sourcebook.

Exar Kun has also been stated to have full knowledge of the Sith arts that died with him. Not even Vader knew what Kun did and he had access to largest gathering of Sith lore ever.

Whats more is that Exar Kun isn't just given hype about this he has shown immense feats with the Dark Side only a handful of Sith can compare to.

Creating dozens and dozens of the most powerful Sith warbeasts and better yet the superweapon Dark Reaper.



Yes and Exar Kun plundered several worlds finding and stealing numerous tomes, scrolls and multiple Sith Holocron. Naga Sadow's personal storage of knowledge was stated to contain nearly the entire lore of the Sith Empire.



Indeed something both Bane and Plagueis lamented, however Plagueis also wondered whether or not Sith like Sadow and Kun were truly more powerful and knowledgeable than modern day Sith or the Dark Side had simply been more potent.

This is further reinforced by Kun appearing alongside Sidious as two of the greatest focal points of the Dark Side.



Yes the Sith Emperor achieved more power than Kun did, he also seems to have immense knowledge equating to or surpassing Kun's own, however I would ask you to see the quote this way:

The Sith Emperor already held such knowledge before Exar Kun so the full knowledge of the Sith arts did die with Kun in that the only person that compared, never would have shared such information with his subjects.

I don't believe the Dread Masters nor Thanaton had the level of knowledge that Kun held, the Dread Masters are likely very close but they seem more obsessed with illusion and alchemical creations than much more, though I'm not inferring those spheres of Sorcery were their only experience.



My Exar Kun Ultimate Respect Thread contains said statements.




Indeed however such aid was at best marginal


Not at all, however the post you original attempted to set straight was inferring Kun's accolades aren't matched by his feats.


Except they had faced ISB interrogation and torture beforehand and had previous training from Luke in mental aspects. Regardless it dodges the point I was making in the first place, He used them utterly to fill in for his own lack of Force reserves.



Indeed but this fails to compare to tanking bombing runs meant to level the city without any sign of effort or concentration.

Also you were inferring that this would be a winning combat technique, in reality this would merely delay the inevitable. Not to diminish the feat, Fold Space is indeed impressive.




The Order wasn't exactly brimming with power at that point, the Great Sith War had caused serious and immense damage to the Order. Not to say there aren't powerful individuals in the Order during this time but not nearly as many as in Kun's.



Yet he wasn't displaying any kind of rage until he demolished Baas, your belief that the amulet allowed for this feat is incorrect.

Also you should do some serious research as Thon, Jeth, Urr and Baas have been given excessive accolades, not Revan level but it would be imbecilic to underestimate them.

Regardless you missed the point that he did these things simultaneously.

AncientPower
Originally posted by The Merchant
He did a spell to enchant the audience in the Senate, not saying it's not impressive but yeah. Also I don't think the statement from Factfile should be used where it says he's called the Strongest Sith Lord ever. Hord and the Dark Jedi Exiles are probably stronger than him, and neither the Vitiate since if I'm not mistaken he already did his ritual that gave him immortality and has his own quotes where he's the strongest Dark-side master during that time.

Kun, Exar Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire. Killed by an overwhelming force of Jedi, the spirit of Exar Kun survived across the vastness of time to challenge Luke Skywalker and a new group of Jedi trainees.
- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

He was once the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy and superior to all before him, Kevin J. Anderson has stated Kun is the most powerful of his characters and he did TotJ.

Also I would point out that both the SWTOR novellas and the Encyclopedia are set well after Kun's death.

Vitiate simply eclipsed Kun over time.

Stigma
I'm leaning towards Kun winning this.

Marco1907
Originally posted by Stigma
I'm leaning towards Kun winning this.

Revanchiste
"The problem iz that Revan iz not enzlave by th perfection of hiz light zaber ztyle...

I don't know if he learn makazhi, but he iz precize fatz, and avoid enzlavement to the form..... And thiz particularity ezizt in all hiz light zaber form, he iz like Kao Cen Darach but in more effective !!!!

He can eazly zuprize mazter of one form, becauze he know how to randomize and improvize..

Luke Reztrain hiz force abilitiez... Where Revan fully uze them....

And the place iz not an handicape for him : http://jeff-destroy.deviantart.com/...-Revan-91666618
He juzt avoid uzelezz acrobatic wich are a wazte of energy if you cannot ztrike your opponent or down him quicly... and make him vulnerable to the force attack becauze force jump drain the power of the force zhield too....

Zpecialization>verztaile..... MOZT OF THE TIME !!!
Her Revan get the edge in light zaber combat (Zuch an ironie becauze he iz more blanced where luke focuz on light zaber....)
Becauze here The zpecialization of luke iz not really a thread for himRevan iz at between 60% and 90% of maztering each technique... 75% mozt of the time...


The greatezt thread when you ztuddy Revan fighting ztyle iz that, you zee but the wordz are juzt mizzing and when the word are mizzing you are mizzing an azpect...
Remember Revan light zaber = A battle mazter level in zomthing zuperior !!!"


Kun have really zomething agrezziv and unorthodox to offer at Revan... But the mozt of Revan learning iz zomething than he learn by himzelf.... Force knowledge.

It won't zuprize hil az it zurpriz vodo....
But thiz dirty dirty bitcy ztyle of Kun.... Eeeeerrr..

Kun iz not az powerfull az Vitiate iz... Iz force zhield really amazing have hiz limitz
he had been it by Great Jedi mazter.... The dammage ztill minimalz...

ANd he have zome probel to control the dark energy, he cannot uze it at maximal power like Naga Zadow did.....

If Reincarn himzelf on hiz own body at Vitiate era Vitiate will pie on hiz pant (or robe) but I doubt than Kun will have the capacity to kill him....

Revan haz conderfull capacity but he ztill a leader he don't really uze them becauz he don't often need them...

Revan force drain iz effectiv at a ztar zyztem diztance.... Humhum...
He have alzo Dark healing like Exar Kun... And many zimilar ability not really well knowed... It iz quazi a zatelemate bewteen them becauze Kun cannot utilize hiz full power (where Vitiate CAN XD)

He zurpazz Naga Zadow and Marka Ragnozz..... But Barely... And it waz thank to hiz death... (Remember Ragnoz : You bring the zith lordz to the immortality..) Ztill he iz deadly !!!

Kun iz more zith magic but have good force power. Revan iz more force power but have good magic too....

Thiz iz the problem.....

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower That is a cop out, a huge blatant cop out, I guess we can't site Force Storm in a Sidious vs ___ debate because his opponent isn't knowledgeable.
This is not a cop out. My point is that both Revan and Exar Kun have demonstrated proficiency in the use of Force Drain applications. Exar Kun have utilized this talent on a larger scale then Revan and this might be due to difference in mindset of both, but comparing these two in this regard to determine superiority is premature right now since no source implies superiority of one of these two over the other in the use of this talent, and the fact that Revan have used Force Drain rarely.

Revan instinctively used Force Drain on Malachor V to sustain himself in its environment by feeding on the dark side energy existing on this world during the Mandalorian Wars. Much later, Revan used this talent to feed on the energy of the Force Ghost of Meetra Surik to sustain himself during his torturous imprisonment in a Maelstrom facility to prevent his demise. Apart from these two occurrences, I don't recall other instances in which Revan have used this talent.

KoTOR-CG offers a hint in the form of stats about potential of Revan to project his power in devastating manner on a mass scale. Revan is stated to have Devastating Power, Distant Power, Multitarget Power and Quicken Power talents. Exar Kun also have these talents. So once again, I refer to my point in my top paragraph.

Force Storm application can also be learned and Darth Sidious isn't exclusive in understanding it. The Jedi Order banned practice of this talent due to its violent nature and regarded it as a dark side power, hinted in The Jedi Academy Training Manual. Therefore, Darth Sidious isn't the only individual with sufficient power and potential to utilize this application, it is just that he have utilized this power frequently after his revival. However, this application had been developed much earlier in history by someone. Emperor Vitiate may also have knowledge of this application since he is officially hinted to have explored most sinister and uncharted depths of the dark side to hone his talents.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Force Drain is a highly advanced technique and Kun could absorb thousands upon thousands of beings at will without the aid of a ritual or Force Wound.
I know that Force Drain is an advanced application and difficult to master. Revan instinctively learned it though.

By the way, performing a ritual is not an sign of weakness, rituals are often performed to project power on a much greater scale with full concentration which may not be possible otherwise.

Originally posted by AncientPower
"Almost anyone" as in not everyone.
It is still an ambitious statement.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet Exar Kun has the full knowledge of Freedon Nadd and Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd is stated to have knowledge of every technique in the Tales of the Jedi sourcebook.
This is funny. If Freedon Nadd had knowledge of every technique then their is no need to mention Naga Sadow alongside him to boast about knowledge of Exar Kun.

On a serious note, Freedon Nadd may have knowledge of every application up to his time, but this doesn't implies that he is all-knowing. Sith continued to make further progress in their understanding of the dark arts afterwards, this is pointed out in Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun has also been stated to have full knowledge of the Sith arts that died with him. Not even Vader knew what Kun did and he had access to largest gathering of Sith lore ever.
Exar Kun cannot have full knowledge of dark arts either. See my point in relation to presumably infinite knowledge of Freedon Nadd.

Darth Vader had largest collection of lore at his disposal, really? Lets reduce this to one of the largest for a more realistic assessment. Also, even if Vader had access to such information, his cybernetics imposed restrictions upon him in the use of such knowledge. Also, Darth Vader is irrelevant for this discussion.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Whats more is that Exar Kun isn't just given hype about this he has shown immense feats with the Dark Side only a handful of Sith can compare to.
Exar Kun's impressive standing in the lore is not in dispute, his superiority over Revan in power is.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Creating dozens and dozens of the most powerful Sith warbeasts and better yet the superweapon Dark Reaper.
Ok.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes and Exar Kun plundered several worlds finding and stealing numerous tomes, scrolls and multiple Sith Holocron. Naga Sadow's personal storage of knowledge was stated to contain nearly the entire lore of the Sith Empire.
Good for him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
This is further reinforced by Kun appearing alongside Sidious as two of the greatest focal points of the Dark Side.
For this, I would switch to 3rd party narrative. Exar Kun have been regarded as the mightiest Sith in the lore before Darth Sidious but this assessment is in jeopardy with new additions to the lore. Try to factor-in these newer additions in your judgments to increase your understanding of the ground realities of the lore.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes the Sith Emperor achieved more power than Kun did, he also seems to have immense knowledge equating to or surpassing Kun's own, however I would ask you to see the quote this way:

The Sith Emperor already held such knowledge before Exar Kun so the full knowledge of the Sith arts did die with Kun in that the only person that compared, never would have shared such information with his subjects.
Now this is a logical assessment, I admit. thumb up

Though Emperor is likely to have greater knowledge of the dark arts then any dark side master.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I don't believe the Dread Masters nor Thanaton had the level of knowledge that Kun held, the Dread Masters are likely very close but they seem more obsessed with illusion and alchemical creations than much more, though I'm not inferring those spheres of Sorcery were their only experience.
This is shortsighted assessment on your part. Dread Masters have demonstrated talents that Exar Kun haven't. Same goes for Thanaton. Now whether Exar Kun have knowledge of such talents or not is open to question and scrutiny.

Originally posted by AncientPower
My Exar Kun Ultimate Respect Thread contains said statements.
Some of those sources are massively outdated. I prefer most up-to-date picture of the lore to base my position upon for a debate. I suggest that you do the same.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Indeed however such aid was at best marginal
As per your point of view.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Not at all, however the post you original attempted to set straight was inferring Kun's accolades aren't matched by his feats.
This is not my stance.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Except they had faced ISB interrogation and torture beforehand and had previous training from Luke in mental aspects. Regardless it dodges the point I was making in the first place, He used them utterly to fill in for his own lack of Force reserves.
Jedi undergo training for many years before they achieve great understanding of the Force and become masters. It isn't a big deal for a Sith Lord of Exar Kun's stature to seduce or possess a padawan to do his bidding. The feat is impressive nonetheless but this isn't a position that I would take to hype Exar Kun when their are better ways to do so.

For comparison, check Emperor Vitiate's performance in these matters, he have possessed and/or controlled some of the most powerful Jedi Masters in galactic history. Now this is something to boast about, an incredible display of power. Possessing padawans would be child's-play for him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Indeed but this fails to compare to tanking bombing runs meant to level the city without any sign of effort or concentration.

Also you were inferring that this would be a winning combat technique, in reality this would merely delay the inevitable. Not to diminish the feat, Fold Space is indeed impressive.
I am not drawing a comparison but I am pointing out that Revan is proficient in the use of this talent.

I am not sure if this application can facilitate victory but it can certainly prevent death in most situations, when coupled with teleportation talent. And Revan is proficient in the use of both of these talents.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Order wasn't exactly brimming with power at that point, the Great Sith War had caused serious and immense damage to the Order. Not to say there aren't powerful individuals in the Order during this time but not nearly as many as in Kun's.
You didn't get my point perhaps. Revan surpassed every Jedi in power in galactic history up to his time and then some. Only HoT seems to rival him but this is also open to scrutiny.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet he wasn't displaying any kind of rage until he demolished Baas, your belief that the amulet allowed for this feat is incorrect.
The amulet amplifies his emotions and rage whenever he uses them. This is pointed out in a source that I don't recall at the moment. This also makes sense since Sith tap in to inner emotions to fuel their power.

Exar Kun did defeat some decent Jedi of his era but this doesn't helps him in a comparison with Revan since the latter have astonishingly impressive combat record.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Also you should do some serious research as Thon, Jeth, Urr and Baas have been given excessive accolades, not Revan level but it would be imbecilic to underestimate them.

Regardless you missed the point that he did these things simultaneously.
I do not underestimate characters by default and I have never stated that Thon, Jeth, Urr and Baas are loosers. My point is that they don't compare to Revan, not even close.

Nephthys
The Jedi Path, which was written in universe a thousand years before Sidious, also has a description of Force Storm. So the ability certainly isn't exclusive to Sidious.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun, Exar Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire. Killed by an overwhelming force of Jedi, the spirit of Exar Kun survived across the vastness of time to challenge Luke Skywalker and a new group of Jedi trainees.
- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

He was once the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy and superior to all before him, Kevin J. Anderson has stated Kun is the most powerful of his characters and he did TotJ.

Also I would point out that both the SWTOR novellas and the Encyclopedia are set well after Kun's death.

Vitiate simply eclipsed Kun over time.
This assessment have been overruled by Star Wars: The Old Republic. I am not sure why fans of the referred character continue to promote this statement blindly. Let it go.

Check following statements:-

1.

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. He amasses an army of Sith followers and turns his back on Imperial politics to hone his skills in the dark side.

2.

The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen.*

3.

The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed.*

4.

The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld.*

5.

Over 300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side.*

6.

Scourge expected them to search him, or at least instruct him to turn over his weapons. But Yarri and the others simply stood at attention, waiting for him to enter. The fact that they showed no concern over letting an armed Sith Lord speak to the Emperor face-to-face without any kind of preparation was a testament to the Emperor's unfathomable power.*

7.

Legions of acolytes enter the Sith Academy every year. Few survive long enough to become Sith. Looming over the valley of the Dark Lords, the Sith Academy casts a shadow across the ravine and impresses would-be Sith as a symbol of Imperial power. The pyramid's base represents the masses; the peak, rising to a point and seeming to pierce Korriban's harsh sun, embodies the blinding power of the Emperor. Every acolyte that passes through the Sith Academy's halls dreams of climbing that pyramid of power and joining the elites of the Sith.

*Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

In not a single instance, it is implied that Exar Kun or any other practitioner of the dark arts ever matched Emperor Vitiate throughout galactic history. And the referred sourcebook covers Exar Kun.

AncientPower
I will not make a large reply as it is quite late here I will however state the following:

Freedon Nadd's abilities were not continued because he refused to use his cult as anything more than a stepping stone to return physically. Exar Kun took this information and unsurprisingly failed to share his knowledge to. Regardless Kun is stated to have full knowledge in JA Sourcebook.

I would be careful in dismissing sources so readily, age does not mean that it warrants dismissa. A statement in a sourcebook is only considered invalid if directly retconned by newer works.

The Dread Masters mastered the Phobis Devices collectively at will of the Emperor and became far more powerful. I do not believe their mastery of sorcery equates to immense knowledge on level of the Emperor or Exar Kun. The Phobis Devices created a hivemind among the six of them and they became collectively very powerful.

Oh and Sidious is stated to have the greatest collection ever. Logical as the Order of the Sith Lords had a thousand years of uninterrupted gathering of knowledge.

Exar Kun has displayed feats of immense magnitude such as stunning thousands, draining thousands and has one of the most impressive sorcery resumes of all time.

Exar Kun is stated essentially to be the most powerful Force User in either Jedi or Sith orders by this time. Vitiate is the one whom surpasses him eventually.

He is also stated to be unparalleled in lightsaber combat, easily dispatching a duelist as formidable and experienced as Vodo multiple times.

Kun has immense accolades with feats to match and proved his worth as a Sith Lord against post-DE Luke Skywalker despite being weak at said time.

DarthAnt66
So much BS in one post, it is hard to truly comprehend the levels of wank you place in Kun.

AncientPower
All of these statements are made during timeline of the Cold War and Exar Kun's multiple power level statements are still very much relevant.

The Emperor becomes more powerful afterwards, oh and of course not the entire Encyclopedia just like the Revan novel is playing to the Sith Emperor's power to build him up for the game.

Exar Kun is stated in one of the highest sourcebooks to be published as being the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy during the Great Sith War, it doesn't contradict a single Vitiate hype accolade as they are all stated after Kun's demise. Infact the wording fits perfectly, 'ONCE the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith.'

There is neither a contradiction nor a retcon here.

DarthAnt66
You do realize, "once" can refer to when Revan took the mantle of Dark Lord?

AncientPower
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So much BS in one post, it is hard to truly comprehend the levels of wank you place in Kun.

Truly awe-inspiring and emphatic debating skills, every word you post is a sight to behold. You are truly a champion of the English language.

AncientPower
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do realize, "once" can refer to when Revan took the mantle of Dark Lord?

Yet Revan has no such accolades, infact even the KotOR series there are hints that Kun and Qel-Droma were much worse than Revan and Malak.

Anyway midnight here so I shall depart.

DarthAnt66
No, KotOR hints and states numerous times Revan was the most powerful Jedi the Order have ever seen.

"In battle after battle, Revan had led the Jedi and Republic forces to victory. Realizing defeat was inevitable, Mandalore the Ultimate had challenge Revan to single combat, and Revan had accepted. Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

"It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater then that of anyone else she had ever met."
―Meetra Surik (Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan)

"Yet even though you are a mere apprentice, your potential is unlimited - and your progress...amazing. In all my years, I have never seen one who has mastered the initial training so quickly. You done in weeks what many cannot do in years."
―Zhar Lestin (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"The Force flows through you like no student we have ever seen."
―Zhar Lestin (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"...you must realize that Revan was as great as a Jedi could be."
―Juhani (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"Revan's tale shows us how even the greatest of Jedi can fall to the dark side."
―Dorak (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

ares834
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
"Yet even though you are a mere apprentice, your potential is unlimited - and your progress...amazing. In all my years, I have never seen one who has mastered the initial training so quickly. You done in weeks what many cannot do in years."
―Zhar Lestin (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

embarrasment

Nephthys
Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh and Sidious is stated to have the greatest collection ever. Logical as the Order of the Sith Lords had a thousand years of uninterrupted gathering of knowledge.

a) It was interrupted and a good portion of it was lost when one of the RoT Sith turned to the Lightside and burnt their library (or something).

b) Vader didn't have unrestricted access to it. Sidious drip-fed him darkside knowledge specifically to keep him from becoming too powerful.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You do realize, "once" can refer to when Revan took the mantle of Dark Lord?

No. Since Kun "once" being the greatest Sith Lord would put him above Vitiate. Who Revan was laughably below as Darth Revan.

Revanchiste
Revan V.Z Kun alwayz a cloze one.....

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Nephthys
No. Since Kun "once" being the greatest Sith Lord would put him above Vitiate. Who Revan was laughably below as Darth Revan.
Vitiate was not a character when TCSWE was made.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh and Sidious is stated to have the greatest collection ever.

Of Force knowledge in general, not just specifically Sith lore or knowledge pertaining to the dark side.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Freedon Nadd's abilities were not continued because he refused to use his cult as anything more than a stepping stone to return physically. Exar Kun took this information and unsurprisingly failed to share his knowledge to. Regardless Kun is stated to have full knowledge in JA Sourcebook.
I am skeptical about these assumptions because they have been made in outdated sources and do not sit well with latest developments.

Exar Kun cannot have full knowledge of the dark arts because this implies "all-knowing" which is not realistic. He is likely to have tremendous knowledge of the dark arts. However, depth of knowledge cannot be statistically ranked because individuals continue to learn throughout their lives.

In addition, Sith of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire further expanded upon the knowledge of the ancients after the Great Hyperspace War independently from other factions and Sith who were not part of them. Therefore, it is unlikely that Exar Kun learned everything that they had learned.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I would be careful in dismissing sources so readily, age does not mean that it warrants dismissa. A statement in a sourcebook is only considered invalid if directly retconned by newer works.
I am always careful in assessing sources myself, I don't strongly believe in "timing based reasoning" due to this reason.

Retcons can be direct or indirect, they don't have to be strictly direct.

Latest sources do not imply that Exar Kun was stronger then Emperor Vitiate while co-existing with him in an era. They strongly imply that Emperor Vitiate was born supremely powerful in the Force and continued to be so throughout galactic history. The word "supremely" means "greatest."

Why would authors bother with directly comparing Emperor Vitiate and Exar Kun when they have strongly implied in numerous ways that Emperor Vitiate was supremely powerful throughout galactic history?

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Dread Masters mastered the Phobis Devices collectively at will of the Emperor and became far more powerful. I do not believe their mastery of sorcery equates to immense knowledge on level of the Emperor or Exar Kun. The Phobis Devices created a hivemind among the six of them and they became collectively very powerful.
Dread Masters have demonstrated talents that Exar Kun have not and is not likely to have command of. As I pointed out earlier, Sith of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire expanded upon the knowledge of the dark arts independently from other factions. It is likely that Dread Masters pioneered many impressive talents on their own or acquired such knowledge from the Emperor since he treated them with greatest respect among all Sith Lords serving him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh and Sidious is stated to have the greatest collection ever. Logical as the Order of the Sith Lords had a thousand years of uninterrupted gathering of knowledge.
Do you know about Darth Gravid? He sabotaged the efforts to recover or acquisition of ancient knowledge of the Sith lore to great extent during the Rule of Two era.

I believe that reconstituted ancient Sith Empire was in the best position to acquire full knowledge of ancient Sith lore and expand on it.

Darth Sidious may have one of the largest collection of Sith lore ever but unlikely to have the largest due to actions of Darth Gravid.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun has displayed feats of immense magnitude such as stunning thousands, draining thousands and has one of the most impressive sorcery resumes of all time.
Indeed. But these feats do not benefit him against someone as powerful as Revan.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun is stated essentially to be the most powerful Force User in either Jedi or Sith orders by this time. Vitiate is the one whom surpasses him eventually.
See above.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He is also stated to be unparalleled in lightsaber combat, easily dispatching a duelist as formidable and experienced as Vodo multiple times.
Revan is capable of quickly dispatching Jedi level opponents with his martial abilities.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun has immense accolades with feats to match and proved his worth as a Sith Lord against post-DE Luke Skywalker despite being weak at said time.
Exar Kun is certainly among the most powerful Sith Lords in galactic history. But the fans hype him too much.

Honestly, Luke Skywalker isn't invincible. People tend to subscribe no-limits fallacy to him which I have always found annoying. Put Luke Skywalker in a debate and fans hype him for victory without ever considering the possibility of his defeat.

The_Tempest
That was very insightful. S_W_LeGenD, you reaffirm my position on TOR and its defenders with each post.

Well done. thumb up

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
That was very insightful. S_W_LeGenD, you reaffirm my position on TOR and its defenders with each post.

Well done. thumb up
I am not sure if this is implied in negative sense or positive sense. I am assuming the negative by default in your case.

Exar Kun is a TOR era character, did you notice my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding him? Or you only focused on my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding PT/OT related subjects?

I strongly advice people to thoroughly explore TOR era sources and materials and formulate an informed opinion accordingly. None of what I have stated so far is indication of my bias, rather the information at hand upon which my arguments rest.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am not sure if this is implied in negative sense or positive sense.

excellent

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am assuming the negative by default in your case.

uhuh

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exar Kun is a TOR era character, did you notice my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding him? Or you only focused on my constructive criticism of the hype surrounding PT/OT related subjects?

I strongly advice people to thoroughly explore TOR era sources and materials and formulate an informed opinion accordingly. None of what I have stated so far is indication of my bias, rather the information at hand upon which my arguments rest.

To be fair, you've been called out on it not only by your opponents, but also erstwhile allies {Neph, Ant, etc.}.

Arhael
Who cares about Force knowledge, when all they gonna do during fight is a few Force pushes and lightning bursts?

Revanchiste
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Of Force knowledge in general, not just specifically Sith lore or knowledge pertaining to the dark side.

With Revan who have force knowledge XD Give Revan hiz empire againzt Kun empire Revan force knowledge outclazz the knowledge than Kun can obtain through the ancient zith zpiritz...

Revan Knowledge ztill a bit zuperiro to Zidiouz Knowledge if you eraze pozt Revan death era from Zidiouz memory...


"
Honestly, Luke Skywalker isn't invincible. People tend to subscribe no-limits fallacy to him which I have always found annoying. Put Luke Skywalker in a debate and fans hype him for victory without ever considering the possibility of his defeat."

Fan Zervice for the original trilogy Fan. That'z it !

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
To be fair, you've been called out on it not only by your opponents, but also erstwhile allies {Neph, Ant, etc.}.
The two you mentioned are slowly but surely coming to terms with what I have said many days ago, thanks to the latest update to SWTOR from BioWare.

As for the bias, every fan is biased in some way including you. However, I don't let my bias cloud my judgment in most cases. It is my "out-of-the-box" thinking that can sometimes surprise people but reactions are often extreme which should not be the case for FICTION. Point of contention mostly arises with how we all interpret and address some inconsistencies within the lore.

I am OK with introduction of characters to the mythos that can be potentially stronger then Luke Skywalker and Darth Sidious irrespective of timeline, and I am also OK with Star Wars as a constantly evolving lore. And I do not hesitate at expressing my POV or present an well-reasoned argument which may challenge a traditional belief or revelation. However, some fans find it difficult to come to terms with rapid changes within the lore and stick to traditional revelations which becomes unhealthy at some point during debates because they don't show flexibility.

I have read your arguments and they are often very well-reasoned. You and I may find a common ground on may aspects of the lore. However, you never permitted our cyber-relationship to flourish and reacted in extreme manner.

Nonetheless, we all our guilty of being biased, if this was your intention to pinpoint.

NewGuy01
No, Exar Kun is a KOTOR-era character, and you don't generally think any more highly of them than the PT for the most part.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
No, Exar Kun is a KOTOR-era character, and you don't generally think any more highly of them than the PT for the most part.
TOR represents The Old Republic timeline which covers many eras including that of Exar Kun. I prefer to use the term TOR.

The Merchant
Exar Kun is actually a TOTJ-era character.

S_W_LeGenD
Timeline of The Old Republic is 25,100 BBY - 1000 BBY.

The Merchant
Also Darth Gravid did destroy a bunch of Lore but eventually Plaguies or Palpatine was able to recover all of it and even more knowledge from a million worlds.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The Merchant
Also Darth Gravid did destroy a bunch of Lore but eventually Plaguies or Palpatine was able to recover all of it and even more knowledge from a million worlds.
Darth Plagueis didn't recover much, he was frustrated by such loss.

Darth Sidious had been much more successful in reacquiring ancient knowledge then his Master though. I doubt that he got access to everything. Loss of Malachor V and some other devastating events made sure that lot of ancient knowledge wouldn't survive.

Also, this figure is from?

The Merchant
Dark Empire sourcebook/

carthage
TOR cant claim Kun lmfao, he doesn't belong in that worthless era

AncientPower
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, KotOR hints and states numerous times Revan was the most powerful Jedi the Order have ever seen.

"In battle after battle, Revan had led the Jedi and Republic forces to victory. Realizing defeat was inevitable, Mandalore the Ultimate had challenge Revan to single combat, and Revan had accepted. Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

"It was easy to understand how Scourge could be drawn to him; Revan's command of the Force was greater then that of anyone else she had ever met."
―Meetra Surik (Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan)

"Yet even though you are a mere apprentice, your potential is unlimited - and your progress...amazing. In all my years, I have never seen one who has mastered the initial training so quickly. You done in weeks what many cannot do in years."
―Zhar Lestin (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"The Force flows through you like no student we have ever seen."
―Zhar Lestin (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"...you must realize that Revan was as great as a Jedi could be."
―Juhani (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

"Revan's tale shows us how even the greatest of Jedi can fall to the dark side."
―Dorak (Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic)

Four character opinions and a generic Champion of the Order accolade does not make him the greatest Jedi ever by that point, you realise Ulic Qel-Droma has three similar statements to.

I have read your entire Revan respect thread and none of his accolades compare to Kun's 'most powerful' accolades.

Arhael
How being greatest Jedi has any merit here, when comparing to Kun? Last time I checked Kun is a Sith.

ares834
Originally posted by carthage
TOR cant claim Kun lmfao, he doesn't belong in that worthless era

thumb up

deathslash
In sabers revan take this with a fair amount of difficulty. The double bladed lightsaber and switching between the fighting styles won't really help against revan's precog. Also, a fair amount of kun's sweeping victories in sabers came from his opponents being surprised by the double bladed lightsaber (since he's fought people that use double bladed lightsabers). In a straight duel; kun holds no surprises and revan edges him out in terms of skill. I'd also say that revan has more knowledge of the force but kun's force feats are generally above revan's. I'll say that revan wins in a good fight.

ILS
Originally posted by deathslash
In a straight duel; kun holds no surprises and revan edges him out in terms of skill. I'd also say that revan has more knowledge of the force but kun's force feats are generally above revan's. These are both wrong.

deathslash
Originally posted by ILS
These are both wrong. I'll gladly retract both of those statements if you can prove to me that kun is better with sabers and revan is better with the force. Also, I'm assuming that we're talking about normal revan and not revan redeamed, darth revan, or dark revan. If we're talking about one of those three, then his stats would clearly change.

AncientPower
Kun has genuine strong feats against seriously high class opponents as a duelist. Malak is hardly a major duelist compared to the likes of Ulic whom himself is an exceptionally strong duelist with great feats of his own.

Kun was unparalleled in his time and was drawing against Ulic using Ulic's own style against him. Kun has displayed high level proficiency in Djem So, even matching masters of that form. Ataru is another form he has shown use of, displaying high class acrobatic skill. He is a confirmed Niman master and has apparently hybridised the form in some way, almost appearing like a Juyo user.

He has statements in the guide to weapons referring to him as an unstoppable combatant because of his combat tactics and precognition:



The belief that Kun wins duels because of his opponents' unfamiliarity with the weapon, is contradictory to the statement that Vodo never stood a chance against Kun:





In not one other duel does he use his dual-phase saberstaff.

Furthermore Kun is stated to and has shown that he has beaten Vodo repeatedly before and not just once.





As far as Force prowess goes instead of just repeating the previously stated most powerful accolades I would direct people towards these Force feats:




So not only has Kun displayed that even Jedi as learned as Odan Urr cannot sever him from the Force but we have yet another statement referring to him as the darkest power in the galaxy.



Here Kun displays exceptional command over the Force using levitation, a feat replicated by very few.




Here Exar Kun demolishes nearly 30 Tuk'ata at the same time with his Force Rage.



Here Kun displays mastery over the strongest Force Defense variant with no apparent concentration or effort, insteadly merely walking forward.




Here Kun drains thousands of Massassi and then uses that to empower the Sith Apparatus, unleashing his deadly spirit in a display exactly like Vitiate's return on Yavin IV. This is a feat he has replicated beforehand.



Exar Kun easily freezes the entire senate which at this time had over 10,000 members, this assembly was stated to be full. Inferring that Kun effortlessly froze over 10,000 beings before demolishing Vodo Siosk Baas.

There is much more and I am not even going to go into his spirit feats but Kun is an exceptionally powerful and skilled being.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Four character opinions and a generic Champion of the Order accolade does not make him the greatest Jedi ever by that point, you realise Ulic Qel-Droma has three similar statements to.

I have read your entire Revan respect thread and none of his accolades compare to Kun's 'most powerful' accolades.
This:

Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

This is much before Revan's prime. Also, Revan have superior combat feats then Exar Kun.

AncientPower
You keep stating that but have yet to show why.

Also that accolade is quite obviously talking about at that time, if you read the full context. None of them matches Exar Kun being once the most powerful ever and one of the most powerful ever in Sith history in a grand total of six statements.

Revanchiste
They are quazi equal....

But Don't feed on Revan featz, that'z nothing if you look hiz full potential. The power of encyclopedia make Revan more powerfull than you can imagine !!!

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun has genuine strong feats against seriously high class opponents as a duelist. Malak is hardly a major duelist compared to the likes of Ulic whom himself is an exceptionally strong duelist with great feats of his own.
And yet Darth Malak became a much bigger threat to the Jedi Order then Ulic Qel-Droma. He must have great potential which he eventually realized and tapped into to become one of the greatest heroes of the Jedi Order during the Mandalorian Wars and later on proceeded to rule a Sith Empire with iron fist. Let us not forget that Darth Malak was the strongest Sith Lord in the Empire created by Revan after the latter's removal and his combat related accomplishments include victory over powerful Bastilla Shan in single combat.

So whenever we think about Darth Malak, we should ignore his embarrassing Alek history which doesn't do justice to the character who would rise to great heights in the future and represents his days of lack of decent experience and knowledge. Thanks to shortsightedness of some authors, Darth Malak's early history ended-up being mishandled. Mr. Drew might be a mediocre author but he does justice to his characters in his writings and I am glad that he took charge of Revan's story in literature after the disaster that was dubbed as Knights of the Old Republic comics.

Even if Darth Malak is supposedly lacking in martial aspects of combat (an assumption that I doubt personally), he makes up for such inadequacy with his command of the Force and raw power that he realizes during his later years.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kun was unparalleled in his time and was drawing against Ulic using Ulic's own style against him. Kun has displayed high level proficiency in Djem So, even matching masters of that form. Ataru is another form he has shown use of, displaying high class acrobatic skill. He is a confirmed Niman master and has apparently hybridised the form in some way, almost appearing like a Juyo user.

He has statements in the guide to weapons referring to him as an unstoppable combatant because of his combat tactics and precognition:



The belief that Kun wins duels because of his opponents' unfamiliarity with the weapon, is contradictory to the statement that Vodo never stood a chance against Kun:





In not one other duel does he use his dual-phase saberstaff.

Furthermore Kun is stated to and has shown that he has beaten Vodo repeatedly before and not just once.





As far as Force prowess goes instead of just repeating the previously stated most powerful accolades I would direct people towards these Force feats:




So not only has Kun displayed that even Jedi as learned as Odan Urr cannot sever him from the Force but we have yet another statement referring to him as the darkest power in the galaxy.



Here Kun displays exceptional command over the Force using levitation, a feat replicated by very few.




Here Exar Kun demolishes nearly 30 Tuk'ata at the same time with his Force Rage.



Here Kun displays mastery over the strongest Force Defense variant with no apparent concentration or effort, insteadly merely walking forward.




Here Kun drains thousands of Massassi and then uses that to empower the Sith Apparatus, unleashing his deadly spirit in a display exactly like Vitiate's return on Yavin IV. This is a feat he has replicated beforehand.



Exar Kun easily freezes the entire senate which at this time had over 10,000 members, this assembly was stated to be full. Inferring that Kun effortlessly froze over 10,000 beings before demolishing Vodo Siosk Baas.

There is much more and I am not even going to go into his spirit feats but Kun is an exceptionally powerful and skilled being.
Exar Kun have always been admired for his legendary dueling skills and power.

However, some of his accolades no longer sit well with the latest developments in the lore, which is a problem that the character's fans are not coming to terms with. Exar Kun can no longer be regarded as the most powerful Sith Lord in the galaxy and darkest power in presence of Emperor Vitiate.

As for Revan, he arguably surpassed every Jedi in power in history during the Mandalorian Wars:

Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

NOTE: This accolade implies that Revan is the most powerful Jedi of his era and have possibly surpassed all Jedi in power throughout galactic history. He could be above the likes of Ulic-Qel Droma and Nomi Sunrider at this point.

However, Revan exponentially grew in power afterwards:

In their last meeting he had overwhelmed Revan completely; it wasn't even fair to call it a battle. Revan had grown since then. He was far more powerful now, but was he a match for the Emperor? (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

This exponential growth in power explains why Darth Malak stood no chance against Revan even after being fully prepared to tackle external threats on Star Forge and same goes for Darth Nyriss who was also one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy and easily defeated Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik in single combat, both of whom who were highly accomplished warriors and legends in their own right. This exponential growth in power also explains how Revan was able to cope with torturous situation spanning centuries and his capability to hold his own against some of the most capable and dangerous Strike Teams ever assembled in galactic history to eliminate fearsome threats. Revan was even able to dominate a Strike Team comprising of powerhouses such as Satele Shan and Darth Marr with his raw power, which is one of the greatest feats of power demonstrated in combat situations ever, apparently surpassed by only Emperor Vitiate throughout galactic history.

All are indications that Revan > Exar Kun

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
You keep stating that but have yet to show why.

Also that accolade is quite obviously talking about at that time, if you read the full context. None of them matches Exar Kun being once the most powerful ever and one of the most powerful ever in Sith history in a grand total of six statements.
That is not an era-restricted accolade, that is a creative liberties oriented accolade which have the flexibility to cover history, not just an era.

Below is an example of an era-restricted accolade:

"Luke Skywalker is still the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. I think we should assume he has a plan."

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As of Revan, he arguably surpassed every Jedi in power in history during Mandalorian Wars:

Though the Mandalorian fought valiantly, in the end he was no match for the Jedi Order's most powerful champion. (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

NOTE: This accolade implies that Revan is the most powerful Jedi of his era and have possibly surpassed all Jedi in power throughout galactic history. He could be above the likes of Ulic-Qel Droma and Nomi Sunrider at this point.

However, Revan exponentially grew in power afterwards:

In their last meeting he had overwhelmed Revan completely; it wasn't even fair to call it a battle. Revan had grown since then. He was far more powerful now, but was he a match for the Emperor? (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

All are indications that Revan > Exar Kun
Truly excellent point here. thumb up

Board Walker
Revan as of TOR 3.0 is solidly above DE sidious, yoda, and even Luke in terms of direct combat feats. He was Force folding, force storming, and TK'ing the galaxy's most powerful force users all simultaneously in a 8v1 fight.

There is no other combat feat on this level as of current lore, and hate TOR or not its canon as they are all scripted game mechanics.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Board Walker
Revan as of TOR 3.0 is solidly above DE sidious, yoda, and even Luke in terms of direct combat feats. He was Force folding, force storming, and TK'ing the galaxy's most powerful force users all simultaneously in a 8v1 fight.

There is no other combat feat on this level as of current lore, and hate TOR or not its canon as they are all scripted game mechanics.
Emperor Vitiate have a feat of one-shotting an entire Dark Council, which is the only feat I can think of that outshines Revan's most impressive direct combat related demonstrations.

Nephthys
Lol.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol.
Your butthurt is most amusing. evil face

Revanchiste

NewGuy01
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Emperor Vitiate have a feat of one-shotting an entire Dark Council, which is the only feat I can think of that outshines Revan's most impressive direct combat related demonstrations.

I can think of another one.

Defeating Revan. no expression

ILS
Lol

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I can think of another one.

Defeating Revan. no expression
Well... stick out tongue

Revanchiste
In fact defeating Revan iz juzt an amazing feat....

S_W_LeGenD
It is, without a doubt.

Revanchiste
WHo'z know who'z amiral Saul Karath????? Me I know and it'z linked to Revan !!! I muzt zurpazz ant level at zome point !!!

Revanchiste
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is, without a doubt.


I waz thinking to the emepreor wrath + all of hiz alliez....

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