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1.) TPM Darth Sidious
2.) ROTS Darth Sidious
3.) ROTJ Darth Sidious
4.) DE Darth Sidious

NOTE: Force Lightning is disabled.

Battle takes place where Onimi died.

He loses all rounds. I would even argue Jamaane could solo a few of them.

Hm. How about if we add Dooku?

Wouldn't make much of a difference, tbh.

Shimrra Force resistance is sufficient enough to circumvent getting Force wrecked by GM Luke, and was physically capable and adequately adroit as a fighter that Luke had to resort to a semi-cheapshot to gain the win against him. Dooku would get damn near Fisto'ed against him.

Onimi was powerful enough to manipulate Jamaane in the Force, so I can see him just flatout Force annihilating the Count from the on-set.

Sidious loses until the rounds where his Force Storm becomes available.

**** I need to finish Reunion III, but man this book sucks ass

shimrra faced a Luke who had just taken on half a dozen slayers and, before that, a virtual army of vong warriors to even get to the throne room.

Onimi was extremely deadly with respect to his self-generating organic toxins and his vong physiology, but otherwise exhibited no great talent as a warrior or force adept beyond that. Not sure how his ability to influence shimrra indicates he'd be capable of "flat out annihilating the Count."

Fair enough on the Jammane point, but besting a Luke who've been through all of that in physical combat, is still impressive because Luke stamina has proven to be God-like over the years. You don't even think he can beat the likes of TPM Sidious, one-on-one?

LAL. Onimi showed the ability to affect the minds of Jammane with the Force, a being highly resistant to that type of influence because of his Yuuzhan Vong status in the Force. I don't actually see Dooku countering that type of telepathy. Unless I'm mistaken and Onimi can only use that type of mental manipulation over a long period of time, rather than a quick mental whammy.

shimrra's undoubtedly an extremely dangerous fighter, by all reckoning the largest and mightiest of the vong. I don't disagree that his ability to hold his own against luke is indicative of enormous skill.

I'm just reminding you that this particular confrontation won't involve backup and an army. more importantly, the Emperor is a far more vicious fighter than luke and will pull out all the stops against shimrra, whereas luke in The Unifying force confesses to jacen that he often restrains himself to avoid potential brushes with the dark side.

not saying shimrra can't win, just saying that the two fights won't be remotely similar.

as far as Onimi goes, I do believe the text indeed suggests that his subjugation of shimrra was a gradual process.

Ah, fair enough on both points, then.

Plus darth Plagueis establishes that sidious possesses great skill in neutralizing toxins and poisons thanks to his studies of sith sorcery. Whether it would be up to the challenge of Onimi's unusually potent concoctions is anyone's guess.

Hmm...
That being said, you think Sidious can win all rounds?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Hmm...
That being said, you think Sidious can win all rounds?

I don't think he could contend with both of them simultaneously unless the environment were such that he could crush them with heavy objects. sith lightning has proven to be an unreliable weapon against vong; sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

onimi is a cagey, agile fighter who spams a shitton of instakill toxins and poisons whilst shimrra is a lumbering juggernaut. in an unfavorable environment against these two, i'd say all iterations but rots!sidious loses.

Good points, very good points - and I agree.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Good points, very good points - and I agree.

That's the trouble with vong, really. depending on the environment, they go from winners to losers.

True.
While they are highly resistant from the Force directly, indirect objects influenced by the Force can still do them in.

The team could probably beat tpm sids due to lack of feats, but rots and up he wins. Palpatine is too fast, Onimi should be susceptible to all force attacks, and as best as I can remember lightning has worked on vong every time except once, with jacen in Traitor, but in the next novel Destinys way he lightnings a bunch with no problem. Jaina uses lightning to kill one in Star by Star, burning a hole thru one, and Luke uses lightning against a slayer in the final battle against shimmra.

Another example of force powers working on them would be lomi plo using her force web to cut a vong up in Star by Star.

He actually killed them in Traitor by utilizing force storm, in Destiny's way Jacen downed an entire forward unit of Vong with Electric judgement though which is ****ing impressive.

Originally posted by carthage
He actually killed them in Traitor by utilizing force storm, in Destiny's way Jacen downed an entire forward unit of Vong with Electric judgement though which is ****ing impressive. I dont think it was a "force storm" like Palpatine uses, that was just the description the writer used to describe the vortex of debris jacen was throwing around with tk, then finally collapsing the building and burying the vong alive. Still very impressive tho.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I dont think it was a "force storm" like Palpatine uses, that was just the description the writer used to describe the vortex of debris jacen was throwing around with tk, then finally collapsing the building and burying the vong alive.

He was using lightning and telekinesis simultaneously. He overloaded Vergere's tutaminus, killed Vong with lightning, crushed Vong under rubble, and destroyed a portion of the room. If that's not Maelstrom then I'd like to know what it was.

Originally posted by carthage
He was using lightning and telekinesis simultaneously. He overloaded Vergere's tutaminus, killed Vong with lightning, crushed Vong under rubble, and destroyed a portion of the room. If that's not Maelstrom then I'd like to know what it was. almost everything here is wrong.

First he never overwhelmed her tutaminis, there's no mention of her even defending herself in the slightest.

Second he didnt kill any vong with lightning, his lightning couldnt even touch them due to that stupid pole crap.

"But he could not touch them with his lightning. There had been a circut missing, the lightning would ground harmlessly into the floor or the walls or arc back to make vergeres unconscious body spasm in convulsions. The lightning of his rage could only span gaps between poles of the force-neither nom anor nor his warriors could conduct that current. Frustration had compounded jacens fury, he had thrown himself outward seeking power to do these creatures harm."

And third he didnt use lightning and tk simultaneously

What he used was lightning, then tk. Its clearly not a "force storm" like Palpatine uses warping space and time.

TPM Sidious loses, all other versions win.

There are numerous Force powers labeled "storm", Raptor.

Maybe you should try posting the entire quote next time?



Its pretty obvious he's using both at the same time, and the description of the event is pretty consistent with the darkside ability Force Malestrom. The only part I messed up on was her using tutaminus



Which is just an inconsistency, seeing as how even his sister can kill a Vong with Force lightning and she's weaker in the force than he is. You can ignore that.



Which is contradicted by the fact he's collapsing and destroying the building while trying to kill Nom Anor with lightning

lol. u do realize that there was an actual storm raging directly above them while that scene was going on right?

"lightning blazed overhead, and thunder slammed the crater floorhard enough to shake the ground. shivering, jacen pressed himself into a broken corner that had once been the interior of a fashionable refresher. icy rain streamed down his spine, and pellets of hail stung his skin."

for the second part i think ur just not comprehending what ur reading. do u realize that jacen is in the present recalling these events from memory?

He is looking at the rubble in the present, then recalling the events that led to it. he recalls using lightning on vergere, then recalls trying to use it on the vong and it failing, and then trying something else which was pulling the building down.

"neither nom anor nor his warriors could conduct that current. Frustration had compounded jacens fury, he had thrown himself outward seeking power to do these creatures harm-And the storm above the crater answered."

Notice the lightning doesnt work and he has to seek a new power to kill them. and notice its the same storm above the same crater that was referenced a few pages earlier in the story.

lol at just ignoring that u flat out said that jacen killed vong with lightning in this specific instance, when the story flat out tells us that he couldnt and then u just chalk it up to inconsistancy. it being inconsistant from story to story has no bearing on what u said here. u made a statement, were completly wrong and r just trying to muddy the waters to cover ur mistake. to be honest its a very Quanchi type move.

for the last part once again hes clearly not using both at the same time, he colapses the building after the lightning fails to harm them. all it takes is a basic understanding of past/present to understand.