Wonderman vs. Mindless Hulk

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Betageuze
i have seen Hulk.... handling Wonderman, Hercules, Iron-Man and Namor, the Sub-Mariner... at the same time......

on the other hand i ve heard , that Current Wonderman is stronger than ever (i ve seen his match against Abomination.... he really "owned" the Abomination... )

who wins in an one on one confrontation ?

DrDoom101
What the ****??? God, Betagueze, stop it, plz. If you're gonna make a thread, make sure you know about the characters first. Jeez, this is overkill...

guy222
hulk

Thorion
Mindless Hulk didn't really impress me. Seeing as regular WM has stalemated regular Hulk, current WM takes a majority, imo.

llagrok
In an Arena, the Hulk would win.

Horrificus
WM

Kutulu
Mindless Hulk for the win.

Horrificus
yeah, now that I think about it, the Hulk from the Last Avengers Story seems a lot like Mindless. And, he was able to break WM's skin.

Would have to give it to Mindless, 7/10.

horrorwolf
lol....Hulk 10/10

funny stuff
Betageuze you god!

Grinning Goku
Hulk wins.

Horrificus

Jonathanos
Last Avengers Story isn't in continuity. Even if it were, all it shows is that Wonder Man was strong enough to keep Hulk from escaping.

When Wonder Man fought Abomination, Tyrannus was inhabiting the body not Abomination. (Blonsky had been separated from the body.) Tyrannus was unfamiliar with Abomination's might and assumed he was totally invulnerable. The electrical shock stunned him and Wonder Man capitalized.

Wonder Man's fists have been compared to Mjolnir? Hulk has been said to be the strongest on Earth many times.

When Wonder Man was drilled through that planet and into the sun by Hyperion, it killed him.

I don't remember Simon catching a skyscraper thrown by Nefaria or going toe-to-toe with Pagan. I do remember Nefaria toppling a building and Wonder Man failing to stop it-- though he said it was because it would crumble if he pushed too hard.

Hulk's beaten Blob, Abomination (even when his power was doubled), It the Living Colossus, etc. etc. More importantly, Hulk's more than held his own against Avengers rosters that included Wonder Man. If this is Byrne/Milgrom-era Mindless, he was whipping up on Hercules, Wonder Man, Iron Man, Namor, and She-Hulk until his deteriorating health brought him down.

Hulk wins this fight.

psycho gundam
whats he going to do, out punch the hulk?
you need more powers to beat/survive hulk.

janus77
Hulk wins in a stomp.


as for holding/lifting, why on earth even bring up something as feeble as a skyscraper?

Horrificus
Originally posted by janus77
Hulk wins in a stomp.


as for holding/lifting, why on earth even bring up something as feeble as a skyscraper?

Was 50,000 tons "feeble"?

It's actually more of a feat than many of the silly ones that Hulk has. Such as holding up a mountain, without the mountain crumbling around him, or sinking into the ground below him.

The 50,000 ton press can be argued that it actually was made to withstand that pressure where WM was holding it.

Purely "physical".

Horrificus
Originally posted by psycho gundam
whats he going to do, out punch the hulk?
you need more powers to beat/survive hulk.

This is why WM has also been shown the have excellent combat skills, not just be a strong pounder.

When he fought the Hulk, he tossed him around pretty well, and made good use of his speed and agility.

strengthkills
Originally posted by Horrificus
This is why WM has also been shown the have excellent combat skills, not just be a strong pounder.

When he fought the Hulk, he tossed him around pretty well, and made good use of his speed and agility.

Good for him,Hulk 10x20/10

Horrificus
Originally posted by Jonathanos
Last Avengers Story isn't in continuity. Even if it were, all it shows is that Wonder Man was strong enough to keep Hulk from escaping.It is supposed to be the future of the 616 timeline. So, these are the same characters. Just in a future setting.


Who cares? When everybody talks about the Hulk capitalizing on Gladiator's weakness to radiation, nobody yelled "Hey! No Fair! Hulk is capitalizing on that!" laughing out loud

Ok, so what are you saying? One thing says how strong the Hulk may be. The other thing says how powerful WM's punches are.
2 different things. Personally, in a fight, I would rather have the striking power of Mjolnir in my punches, than be able to lift a lot of weight.

Got news for ya, If you throw Hulk into the Sun, he is gonna die too.

The same can be said for WM. He has also taken on groups of top-tiers. As with Hulk's battle, it was non-conclusive. And, as I stated, WM also beat Abomination and It.
These guys are more evenly matched than you are saying they are.

Horrificus
Originally posted by strengthkills
Good for him,Hulk 10x20/10 um... Yeah. Good argument.
Nice debating with ya. laughing

strengthkills
Originally posted by Horrificus
um... Yeah. Good argument.
Nice debating with ya. laughing


Thanks,I try.

Somewhat embarrasment

Horrificus
I'm not saying that Simon wins. I'm just saying that he wins a few, and that he is more than just a brick.

strengthkills
Originally posted by Horrificus
I'm not saying that Simon wins. I'm just saying that he wins a few, and that he is more than just a brick.

I wouldnt give Simon any wins personally,he was losing with help,why would he do better without it?

I was just joking on my first post,in case I came across as snide.

Jonathanos
Originally posted by Horrificus
It is supposed to be the future of the 616 timeline. So, these are the same characters. Just in a future setting.

Future stories are not in continuity, whether you think it should count or not. And even so, it hardly showed a strength superiority.



Quote where I said it wasn't fair. I pointed out that Tyrannus overestimated the Abomination's body and was taken off-guard by the electrical shock.



People can say Wonder Man hits like Mjolnir all day long. The history between Hulk and Wonder Man shows who's superior. Their fights bear this out.



Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, getting killed by something is not a durability feat.



Good for Wonder Man. Hulk has taken on groups that included Wonder Man.



Why do you bring up opponents Hulk has beaten? Even with his power doubled, Abomination fell to the Hulk.



Not based on their fights. Wonder Man may hang in their for a bit but this fight is going to Mindless. Wonder Man's only chance is if the fight occurs near the point where Mindless' deteriorating health had him near death.

KK the Great
Jon, you know as well as anyone that "Hulk vs. team" is a completely different animal than Hulk in a 1-on-1 situation.

Hulk against a team becomes the unstoppable monster archetype, a Doomsday-type. He can fight Hercules, Namor, Wonder Man, and Iron Man, and they will do worse than any of them normally would solo. That's just the way it is.

Jonathanos
We're not talking about the usual Hulk here. We're talking about the animalistic Hulk from Byrne and Milgrom's run who grew so angry while beating on a helpless Doc Samson that subsequently he was able to whip up on the Avengers despite weakening.

Wonder Man may last a while but he won't win.

janus77
it might have something to do with what Cho says about Hulk always holding back. when fighting a team, he's less liable to outright kill someone accidentally, since they each get some room for maneuver when Hulk is distracted by a colleague.

when he's fighting one-on-one, he's gotta keep it in check or else the opponent dies.

KK the Great
Originally posted by janus77
it might have something to do with what Cho says about Hulk always holding back. when fighting a team, he's less liable to outright kill someone accidentally, since they each get some room for maneuver when Hulk is distracted by a colleague.

when he's fighting one-on-one, he's gotta keep it in check or else the opponent dies.

Holding back. Heh.






No.

Horrificus
Originally posted by strengthkills
I wouldnt give Simon any wins personally,he was losing with help,why would he do better without it?

I was just joking on my first post,in case I came across as snide.
No, I was just bustin' on ya.
For a long time, I think Marvel has been trying to make Simon a serious Top-Tier, the way the writers always try to compare him to Hulk and Thor.
I guess they are just going to have to have him do something over-the-top for anybody to take him seriously.

Horrificus
Originally posted by KK the Great
Holding back. Heh.






No.
I agree with KK.
That holding back thing is a joke, and I really don't care what Cho says. He can't rewrite the entire history of the Hulk.
There is a reason why everybody has been trying to get rid of him, and it ain't because he is so sweet and good and gentle around other heroes! roll eyes (sarcastic)

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Horrificus
I agree with KK.
That holding back thing is a joke, and I really don't care what Cho says. He can't rewrite the entire history of the Hulk.

He didn't. He just explained and expanded on it (in an incredibly stupid but now completely cannonical way)

Wonder Man

Jonathanos
Hulk does hold back, just as most heroes do. Banner also exerts a moderating influence over the Hulk. This was noted decades ago.

Wonder Man also holds back.

This isn't that Hulk though and he won't be holding back.

Wonder Man
You know they've done lots of Hulks but from mindless to whatever...ive only basically followed the variants in the Mcfarlane sense of grey mindless and other avenger like appearances. Anyhow they've never really done an insane Hulk where he loses it. Isn't that what people are waiting for...?





Welcome to my world.

guy222
hulk

HulkIsHulk
Originally posted by Horrificus
I agree with KK.
That holding back thing is a joke, and I really don't care what Cho says. He can't rewrite the entire history of the Hulk.
There is a reason why everybody has been trying to get rid of him, and it ain't because he is so sweet and good and gentle around other heroes! roll eyes (sarcastic)
I don't know about holding back against everybody, but pretty much every incarnation of Hulk, even Savage has stated and shown they are holding back against Spiderman.

HulkIsHulk
As for the fight, this is a stomp in favor of Hulk. Fight will take some time, but the murder machine (yep, Mindless Hulk does kill) wins.

Rao Kal El
Lol at the Cho "holding back" retcon.

True is that when the comic was published, hulk was going all and loosing power after reaching PEAK while WM was holding back.

Still Hulk should win over WM especially if is a mindless Hulk, WM could defeat a low rage hulk, but imo not the mindless one.

psycho gundam
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Lol at the Cho "holding back" retcon.

True is that when the comic was published, hulk was going all and loosing power after reaching PEAK while WM was holding back.

Still Hulk should win over WM especially if is a mindless Hulk, WM could defeat a low rage hulk, but imo not the mindless one. banner was smarter than cho and curtailed hulk the best he could.

U MAD

also:

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/wm.jpg

meep-meep
I got excited and thoughr betagueze was back.

Badabing
HULK......KILLER......HUMANOID!

zopzop
Originally posted by Badabing
HULK......KILLER......HUMANOID!
laughing

As to the thread, Hulk wins.

Dampyre
A second tier strongman vs the Mindless Hulk? Hulk for the easy win.

Stoic
This is a really bad match up for Simon. The question should be, How long would he last against the mindless Hulk.

Rao Kal El
Originally posted by psycho gundam
banner was smarter than cho and curtailed hulk the best he could.

U MAD

also:

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/wm.jpg


I honestly don't understand where are you trying to go with this.

Ok, so Banner stated in a comic written by Pack that He always hold back but that does not change the fact that Hulk historically and for the past 30 or 40 years prior to Greg Pak, Hulk's power comes from a rampage* and He uses this violent beast to save the day, all the writers before wrote those stories with HULK going in a rampage, so Pak trying to retcon those past 40 years with a simple "holding back" statement is quite silly, that is why I LOL at the "cho retcon" Hulk's power comes from a rampaging rage trying to say that a rampaging rage is under control is quite silly, IMO specially when all the guys before you have said and confirmed this over and over again.

Having said that, ON THIS PARTICULAR comic in which a BANNERLESS hulk is fighting Simon there is no Banner that will try to keep the Hulk on check, this is actually a Hulk that reached PEAK strength (because of the lack of Banner) but also is getting WEAKER AFTER REACHING PEAK (Because of the lack of Banner) this particular rampage has been going on IIRC for at least 5 days.

In any case I believe WE are on the same page in here, Simon is not defeating a mindless rampaging Hulk, He could defeat a non-enraged Hulk, but not this particular Hulk.




* Rampage: noun
1. a period of violent and uncontrollable behavior, typically involving a large group of people.

carver9
Mindless Hulk isn't peak Hulk as confirmed by Pak (and Canon). With that said... Hulk stomps this.

Rao Kal El
^ LOL 40 years of evidence written by other people say otherwise.

It is easier for me find statements saying that Hulk is on a rampage than a SINGLE statement of a writer who had the bright idea of having him "holding back"

Leave those for THOR OR SUPERMAN who historically hold back, but Hulk historically is on a rampage and historically does not hold back (unless written by Greg Pak)

The Sorrow
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
^ LOL 40 years of evidence written by other people say otherwise.
No, they don't.

Rao Kal El
,^Care to show?

Iirc almos all writers except for Pak have the hulk running rampant.

psycho gundam
All you have to do is show a human body count, that was the point of the quote as well as the fact that Hulk's entire character is based off of controlling the beast within. like you just sound dumb right now if you think there is no evidence of Banner impacting Hulk's rampages.

When Banner was separated the Avengers had to stop him cause Banner wasn't there to stop him from murdering anyone

carver9
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
^ LOL 40 years of evidence written by other people say otherwise.

It is easier for me find statements saying that Hulk is on a rampage than a SINGLE statement of a writer who had the bright idea of having him "holding back"

Leave those for THOR OR SUPERMAN who historically hold back, but Hulk historically is on a rampage and historically does not hold back (unless written by Greg Pak)

What does Rampage have to do with someone holding back? WWH went on a rampage and he was still holding back. Also...there are a lot of statements from Superman himself where he isn't holding back...like against his fight against Adam (who he couldn't move out of a city).

The Sorrow
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
,^Care to show?

Iirc almos all writers except for Pak have the hulk running rampant.
Which means what exactly? You seem to think he was just wildly rampaging in every issue he's appeared in when that's far from the case.

Besides, a rampage could be as little as crushing some picket fences to destroying a building or two. That doesn't prove anything whatsoever. Writers such as Stan Lee and PAD have discussed the subconscious influence Banner has over Hulks actions, this is (or should be) a pretty well known fact.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Pretty sure Hulk was dying and getting weaker in that scene with Wonder Man no?

And historically Banner has limited Savage Hulks strength subconsciously no? He's the reason Hulk did not kill nearly as much as he should have.

For example, against Onslaught when Jean blocked out Banners mind so that Hulks power could be unleashed.

I'm certain it's not completely consistent but it's hardly unheard of either. Pak didn't come up with this out of nowhere. The gamma math was stupid though.

Wonder Man
Wonder Man ought to at least give Hulk a day of it.

HulkIsHulk
Originally posted by Wonder Man
Wonder Man ought to at least give Hulk a day of it.
He might give hulk some trouble but the smashing is inevitable

Stoic
Originally posted by Wonder Man
Wonder Man ought to at least give Hulk a day of it.

Nope

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
He might give hulk some trouble but the smashing is inevitable

Did you see the scan above? The Hulk had him in a panic. Any worse and he would have wet himself.

LeonBuco666
Hulk wins.

zopzop
Originally posted by Stoic
Nope



Did you see the scan above? The Hulk had him in a panic. Any worse and he would have wet himself.
What's even sadder about that scan is that was Mindless Hulk when he hit his peak and was weakening. Doc Samson took the beating of his life but it's what saved the Avengers because Mindless Hulk was weakened at that point after abusing the sh|t out of Samson.

Mindless Hulk destroys WM.

HulkIsHulk
Originally posted by Stoic
Did you see the scan above? The Hulk had him in a panic. Any worse and he would have wet himself.
stick out tongue
Wonder Man at that time was always pissing in his pants due to being afraid of dying. That being said, I agree with what you said. What I said was due to flight and other advantages he could keep himself out of hulk's range for sometime but the moment Hulk gets hold of him Simon is dead

h1a8
WM is now stronger right? Especially with his feat against Rulk.

HulkIsHulk
Originally posted by h1a8
WM is now stronger right? Especially with his feat against Rulk.
Almost everyone is kicking Rulk around these days. He nothing like his old days

HulkIsHulk
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Having said that, ON THIS PARTICULAR comic in which a BANNERLESS hulk is fighting Simon there is no Banner that will try to keep the Hulk on check, this is actually a Hulk that reached PEAK strength (because of the lack of Banner) but also is getting WEAKER AFTER REACHING PEAK (Because of the lack of Banner) this
particular rampage has been going on IIRC for at least 5 days.
You can spew that nonsense all you want, but Hulk did not reach his peak, just hit a limit, as said by Samson
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk%20Fights%20A-E/HulkvsAvengers50.jpg.html

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