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The Heart of the Universe vs. The Anti-Life Equation. Which one grants it's user more power

cn some one explain to me what does the ALE grants oneself?

From everything I read and hear, I'd say HOTU takes this.

Althought ALE can take this 2....hmmm

true on both sides

What does teh Anti-Life Equation do?

Originally posted by General Kon-El
What does teh Anti-Life Equation do?
Supposedly it grants the wielder the power of will over another but on a multiversal scale. There are many others supposedly but I have not read the comic.

I don't think this should be treated as Thanos w Hotu vs Darksied w ALE, because thier personality and mentality traits would have to be factors as well as the power they usurp.


I think this should be looked at as how versatile or useful each artifact is.

Hotu vs ALE alone...well atleast that's who I will try to argue that, I won't protest anyone iwho chooses to include Thanos or DArksied into this.

HOTU universe wins because ALE has done anything.

HOTU supposidly gives you the entire power of TOAA so if thats true it would win

Originally posted by Mider
HOTU supposidly gives you the entire power of TOAA so if thats true it would win
HOTU gives you powers above TOAA.

Does anyone think that ALE could POSSIBLY be same power that Yahweh in Vertigo has?

I mean, Yahweh himself said that his word is absolute order in his domain, so lets say he wanted to destroy the universe by simply erasing it and re creating it, he could do so with a simple command, and it will be as if the old universe NEVER EVEN EXISTED......cuz ANY command he gives that contradicts the OLD ORDER will erase the old order and re vert EVERYTHING back to the beginning of time.

If ALE is anything like this, then WOW...i duno

BUt Mider ur kinda right there...if HOTU gives the person power of TOAA, then whose to argue that even Yahweh's power could overpower that, much less the ALE?

Oh then F*ck it, HOTU wins lol

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Does anyone think that ALE could POSSIBLY be same power that Yahweh in Vertigo has?

I mean, Yahweh himself said that his word is absolute order in his domain, so lets say he wanted to destroy the universe by simply erasing it and re creating it, he could do so with a simple command, and it will be as if the old universe NEVER EVEN EXISTED......cuz ANY command he gives that contradicts the OLD ORDER will erase the old order and re vert EVERYTHING back to the beginning of time.

If ALE is anything like this, then WOW...i duno

BUt Mider ur kinda right there...if HOTU gives the person power of TOAA, then whose to argue that even Yahweh's power could overpower that, much less the ALE?
Wow, you and mider need a sig.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen


Oh then F*ck it, HOTU wins lol
Dude theres a quote button, use that, its hard to read even with bold letters.

Okay...and bro ive been trying to upload my own images for my SIG, but it says my files are all too large

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Okay...and bro ive been trying to upload my own images for my SIG, but it says my files are all too large
Yeah your image is too large, hold on lets see if I can get you a sig. which character do you want.

What does TOAA mean?

The One Above All.

dont know who told you the powers where above TOAA (not the celestials but marvels main entity) there his powers exactly he let thanos have them so thanos would die in his place trying to save the multiverse from all the messed up stuff that happend

Originally posted by Mider
dont know who told you the powers where above TOAA (not the celestials but marvels main entity) there his powers exactly he let thanos have them so thanos would die in his place trying to save the multiverse from all the messed up stuff that happend
NICE!!!

correction THOTU does NOT give u power equal to or greater than TOAA. it only gives u power over the marvel multiverse and nothing beyond it{quite a LEVEL below TOAA} still hotu takes this.

Multiverse? Since when? Can someone show me a scan of THOTU operating on a multiversal scale?

^absorbing LT. There is one of him and he was crushed like a piece of toast.

Originally posted by Mordum
^absorbing LT. There is one of him and he was crushed like a piece of toast. Which still doesn't mean that the HOTU is multiversal or greater than TOAA. He may've crushed the LT, but like you said, there is only ONE of him, yet the LT still exists. So his defeat by Thanos apparently wasn't all that devastating. Also, if Thanos had power above TOAA, instead of simply stopping at that one universe, he would've gone on to conquer the entire Marvel Multiverse. And don't even have me bring the Phoenix Force into this.

Takion....would you happen to have a SIG of ANy of these characters ?



Urizen, Spawn, Angela, or Dawn ?

If there is only ONE Living Tribunal in the multiverse, and he has enough jurisdiction to decide the fate of each universe, then yes he's a multiversal being.

He doesn't have to be on the same power as TOAA to be considered multiversal.

AS for why he still exists, I duno.





So his defeat by Thanos apparently wasn't all that devastating. Also, if Thanos had power above TOAA, instead of simply stopping at that one universe, he would've gone on to conquer the entire Marvel Multiverse. And don't even have me bring the Phoenix Force into this.




No one proved that Thanos was below, above, or equal to TOAA....but i'd make a conditional assumption that if he could destroy the Living Tribunal, whose power is backed up by TOAA, they how is he not TOAA's equal?

Wouldn't TOAA have protected the Living Tribunal if he could have ?

AS for why he didn't invade the multiverse, that could have been his choice not to, I'm unsure.

GS- Bring the Pheonix Force into this lol. Why CAN'T someone bring the Pheonix Force into this, she does play a MAJOR ROLE in Marvel's existance and she is AS real as Thanos with any source of power ????

Did you even read the end series? The reason LT still exists is because thanos gave up his power and set everything back to the way it was.
When thanos got his power he didnt want to just destroy everything in sight but when he was attacked he defended himself and in the process absorbed the universe. After that he stopped and thats when warlock stepped in.

No I didn't. That's why I was asking so many questions. I rarely ever defend or attack HOTU, and when I do argue on its behalf I only go by what I hear from fellow debators and read myself online.







The reason LT still exists is because thanos gave up his power and set everything back to the way it was.
When thanos got his power he didnt want to just destroy everything in sight but when he was attacked he defended himself and in the process absorbed the universe. After that he stopped and thats when warlock stepped in.



Makes perfect sense to me.

DAMN HTML typos lolol

Originally posted by Takion
HOTU gives you powers above TOAA.

utter and complete bunk. this is forumspeak and that's what perpetuates this sort of idea. thanos tried to wipe out everything -- and FAILED. adam warlock found a place to hide from his power and so did death. it did seem to be more powerful than the ig, but lt and the ig wielder never fought so we don't know how the ig would have fared.

where the idea of hotu granting toaa's power started, i don't know. but, unless it was said in some other book outside the mini, read the series and find out for yourself it is steadfastly untrue.

Originally posted by leonidas
utter and complete bunk. this is forumspeak and that's what perpetuates this sort of idea. thanos tried to wipe out everything -- and FAILED. adam warlock found a place to hide from his power and so did death. it did seem to be more powerful than the ig, but lt and the ig wielder never fought so we don't know how the ig would have fared.

where the idea of hotu granting toaa's power started, i don't know. but, unless it was said in some other book outside the mini, read the series and find out for yourself it is steadfastly untrue.
Actually Adam never found a place to hide, It was his sould gem that tracked Thanos's spirit, I dont know about Death. It was stated in Thanos#1.

sorry t. adam and gamora were outside the reality thanos destroyed. they were tending atleza. i shouldn't have said 'hid'. they were in a place that was apparently outside the hotu's influence. there IS no place outside of toaa's influence. it also throws into question whether hotu had control over the entire multiverse.

I've also heard alternative descriptions of what happened as Thanos absorbed only one universe, as opposed to the multiverse as a whole, and only an M-body of the LT, as opposed to the whole thing. Even still, that's ridiculous power, and would certainly suggest it was stronger than the IG.

And if Blaqchaos is threatening the Phoenix Force, please by all means bring it in--I think it's pretty clear that the HOTU would crush it like an insect. Anything that beats up this easily on the LT would probably do a damn good job on the Phoenix too--wherever you place it.

Originally posted by leonidas
sorry t. adam and gamora were outside the reality thanos destroyed. they were tending atleza. i shouldn't have said 'hid'. they were in a place that was apparently outside the hotu's influence. there IS no place outside of toaa's influence. it also throws into question whether hotu had control over the entire multiverse.
Yes but they were out of reality like you stated, Thanos was aiming for only one universe.

maybe, but it's never stated. and since it wasn't stated, and since it appears it was affecting only one universe, it follows there is no evidence that it was a multiversal power. i don't know that lt was an m-body. that also was never stated. if it was, then the win wasn't nearly as impressive.

what seems to have happened was the thanos wiped out a universe (something ig can do, and something below pf's highest apparent feat) and that he apparently beat on lt. lt also seemed to be powerless against korvac in a what if, and given his jobber status at times (even strange resisted him for a while) again, that isn't that awesome of a feat. if it really even was lt . . .

Damn...i gotta read up on Marvel The End

Juggy666666 Thanks for the SIG btw

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Damn...i gotta read up on Marvel The End

i would save the effort -- the series sucked . . .

LOL I CAN IMAGINE !

Thanks for warning me Leo....


I don't know much about it, but it seems to be in total violation of both the Infinity Gauntlet and Pheonix Force which have BOTH EARNED thier places through having a history and active role through almost every series.

HOTU just came outta no where, it seemed like a DESPERATE attempt to please Marvel fans at best, or an attempt to make something more powerful than The Prescence from DCU....