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Nightmare
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/39/art237qk.jpg

vs.

Devil Jin
http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/5707/deviljin7ym.jpg

this is so unfair Nightmare has that big ass sword while Devil jin has his fist

yea but nightmare is slow as hell and devil jin can fly, so all it takes is one miss and jin can just do continous combos and kill him

I relise this post ended a while back but I just had to say, that all though nightmare has a sword and armour, devil jin has his laser beams and could just stand away and continiously beam him

obviously you havent played SC3. Nightmare has long range attacks as well

Nightmare is a beast. Not sure if a Devil Jin stomping beast, but none the less a beast.

DJ's a beast too, and a powerful one at that, considering he's Tekken's poster boy souped up.


No but seriously, considering DJ is quite fast and powerful and has those Hex visions to boot, whereas Nightmare lacks speed and comboing ability but his power and Soul Edge(I assume he has it) make up for it....I'd say they're quite evenly matched.....Don't know much about Nightmare though, so I'm going to have to side with DJ on this one, until I get more info on NM.

You've gotta be joking. Sword or no, and as badass as Nightmare is, theres no contest. Jin all the way. Did we forget the whole laser thing? And the flying? (although most of you have probably touched on those. Im too lazy to read it all.)

I made a thread like this a while back, and concluded that both characters would come to a standstill. The reason is Jin gets a huge upgrade after absorbing Jinpachi's power, and Nightmare draws his power from human souls, and can always become more powerful. Despite Jin having some advantages over Nightmare, such as flight and longe range attacks (Laser Beam), Nightmare still holds immense power, and can damage Jin by several means. Here's the videos of them both.

Nightmare

Devil Jin

Heh, I beleive I sided with Nightmare in the last thread like this, and I havn't seen anything that has changed my mind... Nightmare is a frigging monster, with the demonstrated ability to go against entire armies (Literally hundreds, even thousands of men, armed with their steel armour and carrying all sorts of weaponry).

Lasers and flight you say? those beams are a little too easy to anticipate, and they leave DJ open for far too long... Nightmare has considerably more strength in his attacks (Obviously he has a sword)... His range is also considerably better than DJ's, because he has to rely on his fists and feet... Plus, Nightmare has this really cool move, where he produces shockwaves (it also acts as an auto blocker)...

Pure storyline speaking, Nightmare's sword gives him a range of different abilities, such as unnaturally long life, superhuman strength and endurance, and the sword feeds on souls, making him stronger...

DJ is strong, no question, but there's little chance of him walking away from a Psychotic Supernaturally enhanced knight wielding a Demon sword thats bigger than Jin is...

No question in my mind, Nightmare wins.

I still think they're tied.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
I still think they're tied.

Do you have any explanations as to why? Oh and don't forget, the Jinpachi Powerup is inadmissable since it's not canon.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Do you have any explanations as to why? Oh and don't forget, the Jinpachi Powerup is inadmissable since it's not canon.
For Nightmare to be as powerful as he's shown to be, he first needs to gather a lot of souls to become stronger; The same thing applies to Devil Jin. He can just approach people, overcome them and take their power, since he has that ability. So, I think it's fair that we let both characters reach a level of power that's on par. Otherwise, Nightmare and Jin would be watered down fighting against each other.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
For Nightmare to be as powerful as he's shown to be, he first needs to gather a lot of souls to become stronger; The same thing applies to Devil Jin. He can just approach people, overcome them and take their power, since he has that ability. So, I think it's fair that we let both characters reach a level of power that's on par. Otherwise, Nightmare and Jin would be watered down fighting against each other.

Not really, since Nightmare has acheived that level of power canonically speaking, whereas, DJ has NEVER drained Jinpachi canonically... you can only use their highest official showing, and Nightmares is way up there.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Not really, since Nightmare has acheived that level of power canonically speaking, whereas, DJ has NEVER drained Jinpachi canonically... you can only use their highest official showing, and Nightmares is way up there.
Alright then, Jin goes off somewhere to achieve more power. Nightmare can't do jack shit about that. He isn't going to follow him considering he can't, and Jin could gain as much power as he can if he wanted to. He could overcome Kazuya and Heihachi like he did before, and take their power. Do you recall Ogre becoming a lot more powerful after inheriting Heihachi's power? Just think of Jin absorbing Kazuya, who is Devil technically speaking. He'd have as much power; if not, more than he'd have if he gained Jinpachi's power.

If you were too lazy to read all that, Jin can simply go somewhere to get stronger, and Nightmare isn't able to stop him from achieving his goal.

Nightmare wins 8/10. Nightmare's sword give him an advantage

Originally posted by Tallis
Nightmare
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/39/art237qk.jpg

vs.

Devil Jin
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o289/Cloud_XII/Devil_Jin.jpg

Originally posted by Blanka
Nightmare wins 8/10. Nightmare's sword give him an advantage
How's Nightmare going to hit him with the sword when Jin's thousands of feet above him?

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Alright then, Jin goes off somewhere to achieve more power. Nightmare can't do jack shit about that. He isn't going to follow him considering he can't, and Jin could gain as much power as he can if he wanted to. He could overcome Kazuya and Heihachi like he did before, and take their power. Do you recall Ogre becoming a lot more powerful after inheriting Heihachi's power? Just think of Jin absorbing Kazuya, who is Devil technically speaking. He'd have as much power; if not, more than he'd have if he gained Jinpachi's power.

If you were too lazy to read all that, Jin can simply go somewhere to get stronger, and Nightmare isn't able to stop him from achieving his goal.

You want to give Jin an unsolicited advantage because he can't beat Nightmare's highest showing himself?

Jin never drained anyone canonically, and he only drained Jinpachi in an unofficial ending... Nightmare trounces Jin in his highest showing, and if you want to take the road you just described, then Nightmare will have ample time to drain the souls of thousands of people, making him even stronger...

And, just for added effect, Nightmare's power, when the Soul Edge has been well fed, affects things across the planet (Taki's blades losing their strength, the whole evil seed thing, turning peole evil, effacting wether patterns into unnatural states, weakening both good and evil energy everywhere...

No, at best, Jin still gets trounced by Nightmare's highest powers.



Oh one more thing, If DJ retreats, that counts as a victory for Nightmare... so running away to gain more power is a loss for DJ.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII

Nightmare

Siegfried Schtauffen is such a Cloud wannabe, lol

Actually, no. I'm aiming to be fair in this fight.


Doesn't change the fact that he can, and can achieve more power than he'd have if he had drained Jinpachi's power.


Yet to prove it.


If I remember correctly, it took Jin a few seconds to absorb Jinpachi's power and become immensely stronger. Jin in his human form defeated Kazuya and Heihachi in a few moments. Nightmare didn't kill fleets of armies in that short amount of time. Also, the number of souls it would take Nightmare to gain in the period which Jin takes to achieve Kazuya and Heihachi's power isn't anywhere as high of an upgrade Jin would get.


I don't know about that. FYI, Kilik defeated Nightmare canonically. Someone who wouldn't stand a chance in hell against Devil Jin.


Didn't see where you proved it.


Did you start this thread? No. So I don't see you making the rules. Also, this isn't a tournament battle. This is most likely a fight to the death, and both characters can do just about whatever they want as long as they win in the end.

Originally posted by Mesirus
Siegfried Schtauffen is such a Cloud wannabe, lol
Lol, yeah.

i agree with darkstorm. Devil jin was getting his ass kicked by Hwoarrang in the T6 promotional video. I doubt he can do anything against an insane psychotic killing machine like Nightmare. also hwoarang pushed Devil Jin away on the defensive with a few kicks...Nightmare has a 6foot zweihander that is made of pure evil energy.
okay so Devil Jin can blast at him with his laser beam. however:
-Nightmare can block it with his sword since his sword is a zweihander which are pretty damn sturdy and have A LOT of durability.
-Nightmare can dodge it too (dah). Like DS said, the beam thing leaves Devil Jin very open and drained and that is suicide against Nightmare.

By the way, do you guys know that some people are speculating that the source of "devil" in the Mishima family is because of "soul edge"? many people are assuming that Heishiro Mitsurugi is the ancestor of the Mishimas. i don't know why they say so, but lots of people think that....especially after looking at Jinpachi's T5 ending and the intro of SC3. i don't know...but that is what some poeple are saying.
later, dudes.


Requim>>buster sword
Seigfriend>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>C"R"oud"o"

~Sado

Do you recall Kilik beating the shit out of Nightmare? Not trying to say Hwoarang's any better, but comparing Jin to Hwoarang is pretty much like comparing Nightmare to Kilik, who technically speaking sent Nightmare into a coma. Hwoarang did not defeat Devil Jin; I remember seeing him running after Jin knocked the tower down on him. Also, if you've seen Hwoarang's Tekken 5 ending, you'd know Hwoarang wouldn't stand a chance at all against Jin.


Considering the speed at which it goes, Nightmare isn't going to block it at all times which means in the long run, he's going to get injured.


You obviously don't know how fast it is.


Lol leave him open? Nightmare is the only one open in this particular fight because he's on the ground, whereas Jin's up in the air attacking him from different angles; Not to mention Jin's a lot faster than Nightmare is. Also, Nightmare gets drained of his energy since his weapon feeds on human souls which it needs on a regular basis.


Trust me, Soul Calibur has no connection with Tekken other than the fact Heihachi went back in time to fight in one of the tournaments. Maybe that got people to think whatever you said.


It's the same weapon basically, just looks different.


You must be crazy.

Nightmare, he has the friggen Soul Edge. His apearance in the SC3 intro made him look pretty damn tough. He wiped out an army with what looked to be a power up.

Whatever you guys. I already said if Nightmare and Jin don't get upgrades, then they'll be watered down fighting against each other. Nightmare takes human souls whereas Jin gains the powers of others. It's as simple as that.

Nightmare ~ Devil Jin

Nightmare and D.Jin are upgrades, right?

Originally posted by Remulous
Nightmare and D.Jin are upgrades, right?
Not nearly as much of an upgrade Nightmare gets at the end of the intro to Soul Calibur 3, and not close to as much of an upgrade Jin would get after absorbing Heihachi's power and especially Kazuya's, who is technically Devil. As for which watered down version would win I'd say Jin, for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Actually, no. I'm aiming to be fair in this fight.

How? by jobbing Nightmare while giving Jin a power boost? yeah thats real fair...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Doesn't change the fact that he can, and can achieve more power than he'd have if he had drained Jinpachi's power.

It requires proof, OFFICLA proof that he can....

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Yet to prove it.

I ahvn't seen you prove how Nightmare loses either...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
If I remember correctly, it took Jin a few seconds to absorb Jinpachi's power and become immensely stronger. Jin in his human form defeated Kazuya and Heihachi in a few moments. Nightmare didn't kill fleets of armies in that short amount of time. Also, the number of souls it would take Nightmare to gain in the period which Jin takes to achieve Kazuya and Heihachi's power isn't anywhere as high of an upgrade Jin would get.

He absorbed strong pwers... Nightmare can do the same if he absorbed someone incredibly strong... and the fact that Nightmare can absorb people by the thousands at once tells me that the Power Boost argument is in nightmare's favour.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
I don't know about that. FYI, Kilik defeated Nightmare canonically. Someone who wouldn't stand a chance in hell against Devil Jin.

Three things, Krita Yuga, Kali Yuga, and Soul Calibur... 3 objects designed di actually combat the Soul Edge's power...

Guess what that makes this particular point... a case of PIS, and is therefore inadmissable as an argument.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Didn't see where you proved it.

Using the same argument twice doesn't make it any more correct than it was the first time...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Did you start this thread? No. So I don't see you making the rules. Also, this isn't a tournament battle. This is most likely a fight to the death, and both characters can do just about whatever they want as long as they win in the end.

For the purposes of a VS debate, fleeing the scene of the battle is retreating, and therefore counts as a loss... No, I din't start the thread, but it's a common sense thing, in a theoretical debate about video game characters, if one subject cannot win the fight under his own power, and retreats to find an outside scource of energy, not only is that an act of PIS, but the retreat itself qualifies as a loss.

not really. firstly they dont show hwoarang running away. second, even if ho-rang did run away you can't blame him cuz a damn tower was talling on him! also i didn't say "ho" beat him. i said he pushed him back when they had their exchange of moves and it was Jin forced back not "ho". as for T5 ending, "ho" looked like he'd get ****ed cuz:
-his bike blew up
-he fell and skidded at least 2feet on a road
-he was shocked as hell
he was injured and barely standing after that accident. so yeah, DJ would have pwned him cuz he was in no state to fight. the next time we see them fighting each other was in the promo ad of T6 and Hworang put Devil Jin on the defensive...till devil mama's boy went "laser beam" on them.

see ya around
~Sado

oh and....

cloud is overrated as hell. admit it.

Originally posted by Sado22
cloud is overrated as hell. admit it.

Actually, I said both characters should get those upgrades, not just Jin. Also if you read back, I said only then they would be tied because they would have just about equal power. I'm not one-sided in this.


He can damn well take the powers of others; Kazuya and Ogre can do it, why not Jin? Oh, and even though it's a noncanonnical ending, it still shows what could have happened. That alone proves it.


Did I say he loses? No. Learn to read posts correctly. If you're talking about which weaker version would win, I said Jin because I don't see anyway Nightmare can damage him.


Absorb many at once, but Nightmare has to kill those people first. I already said Nightmare took longer to kill fleets of armies (who Jin could kill easily btw) than it took Jin to beat two people, who could easily pummel Jacks so I know for a fact those are better upgrades than a bunch of regular humans in armor.
After all, Heihachi was a huge upgrade for Ogre. This guy survived an explosion in the face. Also, Kazuya is a Devil just like Jin...


At that time I bet. Also, you underestimate Jin's power.


I don't see where I said anything that isn't acceptable.


Restated my argument since you apparently failed to listen to it I guess.


Giving one character an upgrade for no reason is also called cheating.


This pretty much proves Nightmare loses then since the power he draws is not his own, and thus loses according to your definition of a loss. I guess that screws you over.

Nightmare wins. Learn it. Accept it. Live with it.

I was afraid someone would say that...yeah I guess Nightmare wins then since hardly anyone is arguing for Jin.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Actually, I said both characters should get those upgrades, not just Jin. Also if you read back, I said only then they would be tied because they would have just about equal power. I'm not one-sided in this.

Alright... since this is your argument that both characters get unsolicited upgrades, and since both characters start at their regular best, guess what, Nightmare can simply obtain Soul Calibur and transform into Night terror, and guess what that means... Jin Dies horribly...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
He can damn well take the powers of others; Kazuya and Ogre can do it, why not Jin? Oh, and even though it's a noncanonnical ending, it still shows what could have happened. That alone proves it.

Prove it... where canonically did Jin Absorb any powers? Where did Kazuya do it for that matter? Oh, and Ogre feeds on souls and abient energy, so that argument is moot

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Did I say he loses? No. Learn to read posts correctly. If you're talking about which weaker version would win, I said Jin because I don't see anyway Nightmare can damage him.

You have said that Jin is outof Nightmars reach and therefore can't be damages, sounds like a claim for victory to me...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Absorb many at once, but Nightmare has to kill those people first. I already said Nightmare took longer to kill fleets of armies (who Jin could kill easily btw) than it took Jin to beat two people, who could easily pummel Jacks so I know for a fact those are better upgrades than a bunch of regular humans in armor.
After all, Heihachi was a huge upgrade for Ogre. This guy survived an explosion in the face. Also, Kazuya is a Devil just like Jin...

And Jin has to defeat them, long hard battles... Plus, Nightmare can absorb the souls of strong warriors, absorb evil energy, and like I said before, all he has to do is find Soul Calibur and become Night Terror...

And you think Jin can do instantly what Nightmare did? that clinches it... you know nothing about Nightmare or the Soul Edge...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
At that time I bet. Also, you underestimate Jin's power.

How? Where did I say Jin wasn't powerful? All I said was that as powerful as DJ is, Nightmare is that much stronger, And where do you get the idea that the Devil Power acts as a counter to the Soul Edge? the Soul Edge feeds on evil energy as much as it feeds on souls...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
I don't see where I said anything that isn't acceptable.

You went for an example of Kilik beating Nightmare from SC1, and I countered with what he was using, In this case the Yuga's and Soul Calibur, all weapons and items designed to combat Soul Edge. Not only that, but Maxi and Xianghua where also there to help, therefore that battle is akin to the Kusanagi/Yagami/Yata battle against Orochi... IOW a big case of PIS.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Restated my argument since you apparently failed to listen to it I guess.

You fail to understand your own posts before you send them, and then try to blame me? righto...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Giving one character an upgrade for no reason is also called cheating.

Thats right, so don't do it...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
This pretty much proves Nightmare loses then since the power he draws is not his own, and thus loses according to your definition of a loss. I guess that screws you over.

Wrong, his highest normal showing starts him with whatever he's eaten already, DJ's highest showing is T5 default... You cannot change this to suit your argument.

Well...Night Terror is the final boss in Soul Calibur 3...as Jinpachi is in Tekken 5...and technically speaking he's been defeated just like Jinpachi...so bringing him up is as good as me mentioning Jinpachi, who Jin can defeat and take powers from. I don't see Night Terror surviving against True Devil Jin.


As I said, even though the endings aren't canonical, doesn't neccessarily mean they're impossible. It means what could've happened did not happen in the story.


Have you played Tekken 3? Ogre took Heihachi's power and transformed becoming more powerful than he initially was.


They weren't very hard battles and like I said before, he beat them in his human form. In his Devil Form he would take them out easily.


As Jin can take Kazuya's and Heichachi's power, transforming him into an immensely powerful creature.


This is like saying Jin goes out to find Jinpachi and takes his power.


Actually, I know a lot of Nightmare and the story of Soul Calibur. Also, I said killing fleets of armies isn't as quick as beating two people. I wasn't comparing the times that it takes to take power.


But how do you know?


So you're saying the Soul Edge will feed off of Jin's power automatically? I thought it feeds off human souls and gives off evil energy.


I just brought that up since someone said earlier Hwoarang could take Devil which apparently is false.


You fail to understand what I say in my post...and I have understood everything you've said up to this point...you're giving Nightmare advantages while downplaying Jin. Keep up the good work.


Tell yourself that.


You said if a character is using a power that is not his own, they would lose since they're being given an unsolicited advantage. Is Nightmare's power inherently his? Didn't think so. Same thing goes for Jin, he can become more powerful pretty much the same way Nightmare can.

Oh...and if you've read back, you'd know that I agreed Nightmare wins, so countering my whole post was just as a waste of time as this one was.

Darn, my typos are getting worse.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Well...Night Terror is the final boss in Soul Calibur 3...as Jinpachi is in Tekken 5...and technically speaking he's been defeated just like Jinpachi...so bringing him up is as good as me mentioning Jinpachi, who Jin can defeat and take powers from. I don't see Night Terror surviving against True Devil Jin.

Night Terror is the Hidden boss, Jinpachi was the generic (And only) boss of T5... We don't know if Night Terror was ever defeated, since his only battle was against Zasalamel, and Zas lost badly. Night Terror would mop the floor with any Tekken Character bar none...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
As I said, even though the endings aren't canonical, doesn't neccessarily mean they're impossible. It means what could've happened did not happen in the story.

It's eye candy, therefore it's not relative to the debate.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Have you played Tekken 3? Ogre took Heihachi's power and transformed becoming more powerful than he initially was.

That doesn't mean a thing dude... all that proves is that Ogre absorbed Heihachi's capabilities for a short time... Damn man it wasn't even permanent.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
They weren't very hard battles and like I said before, he beat them in his human form. In his Devil Form he would take them out easily.

Thats crap... if Kaz was in his devil form, I see a draw since Kazuya's devil is more pure.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
As Jin can take Kazuya's and Heichachi's power, transforming him into an immensely powerful creature.

How do you come to the comclusion that kaz and Hachi are even there? see what I mean by unsolicited advantage?

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
This is like saying Jin goes out to find Jinpachi and takes his power.

And you see again? did the thread state that the characters can just go and find these people and objects? or even where they are? You see, doing this detracts from the original debate and brings in outside influences, changing the characters, and destroying the point of the debate.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Actually, I know a lot of Nightmare and the story of Soul Calibur. Also, I said killing fleets of armies isn't as quick as beating two people. I wasn't comparing the times that it takes to take power.

Oh, yeah... even though it took 3 separate one on one fights for Jin do it the first time... all the while Nightmare is shredding 6 men per swipe of his sword.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
But how do you know?

Two reasons...

One: Sigfried exists in a world where fights to the death where much more common, therefore a warrior of his calibur has to be insanely strong and well versed in the killing arts of his weapon and in the fighting skills. IOW, Sigfriend fights to kill at all times.

Two: The Soul Edge dramatically increases the strength and fighting capabilities of whoever is holding, not only that, but the demon blade also imparts several supernatural powers upon it's host (I've already told you some of them)

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
So you're saying the Soul Edge will feed off of Jin's power automatically? I thought it feeds off human souls and gives off evil energy.

Yes, since thats exactly what it does, It feeds off of foreign evil energy, yes it gives off evil energy as well, but that energy (Prime example being the Evil Seed) is a product of it's own power, and not something else,

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
I just brought that up since someone said earlier Hwoarang could take Devil which apparently is false.

Sado din't say Howarang beat Jin, he said that Howarang put him on the defense from the get go, and it took a Power Blast from DJ to even the score...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
You fail to understand what I say in my post...and I have understood everything you've said up to this point...you're giving Nightmare advantages while downplaying Jin. Keep up the good work.

I didn't downplay Jin at all, I attacked the use of the Jinpachi absorbtion argument because it has no bearing in this fight... Like I said, if you want to give Jin this advantage, then you have to give a comparable advantage to Nightmare. In this case, the ability to transform into Night Terror

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Tell yourself that.

I'm going to ignore that, since it was you who wanted to use the Jinpachi Absorbtion argument...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
You said if a character is using a power that is not his own, they would lose since they're being given an unsolicited advantage. Is Nightmare's power inherently his? Didn't think so. Same thing goes for Jin, he can become more powerful pretty much the same way Nightmare can.

I explained it before, handing one character an unsolicited advantage is unfair, the argument is supposed to be the characters in ther prime showing IN THE GAME... not some fanciful endings and eye candy... HOW POWERFUL THEY WHERE IN THE GAME...

This means Nightmare as his powers as they where when the Soul Edge is complete (Minus Soul Calibur) and the sword is well fed, Versus Devil Jin as he was in Tekken 5... No more, no less.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Oh...and if you've read back, you'd know that I agreed Nightmare wins, so countering my whole post was just as a waste of time as this one was.

I counter it because even though you concede the debate, your still arguing certain points that I don't agree with, and therefore I will debate them reguardless.

im sorry but reguarding your "what if heihachi and kazuya werent there"

statement: why the hell would hundreds of men be there randomly attacking nightmare not only that but would devil jin not feed off of the evil energy being ommited by soul edge plus dj plus sky plus lazers equals: OMGSPLOSION!!!!

....aaaaaaaaaaand devil jin would rip nightmare limb from limb if he was without souledge

and if devil jin is WAY out of reach and shooting beams of concentrated... who knows what. night mare would eventually wear out
while dj is safe in the air all i can say is OMG NIGHTMARE JUST GOT PWNED LIKE A TIED UP HIPPY NEXT TO ERIC CARTMAN WITH A WEED WHACKER!!!!

your basing all 3 posts (use the damn edit button) on "what if's"...
unfortunatly for you, nightmare has his soul edge in this fight..nothing you an say can change it...2nd of all..as proven, nightmare with soul edge is a hell of a lot stronger..argument = moot..

sorry im new at this

Originally posted by beta ray bob
im sorry but reguarding your "what if heihachi and kazuya werent there"

statement: why the hell would hundreds of men be there randomly attacking nightmare not only that but would devil jin not feed off of the evil energy being ommited by soul edge plus dj plus sky plus lazers equals: OMGSPLOSION!!!!

I used that argument in response to Cloud trying to say that DJ would somehow find Heihachi and Kaz, absorb their power, then come back and fight nightmare with heightened powers, so I made a similar argument for Nightmare, I didn't start that line of crap.

And since when can DJ feed on ambient energy, we know Soul Edge can, but no Devil ever has.

Originally posted by beta ray bob
....aaaaaaaaaaand devil jin would rip nightmare limb from limb if he was without souledge

But Nightmare does have Soul Edge, so Moot Point.

Originally posted by beta ray bob
and if devil jin is WAY out of reach and shooting beams of concentrated... who knows what. night mare would eventually wear out
while dj is safe in the air all i can say is OMG NIGHTMARE JUST GOT PWNED LIKE A TIED UP HIPPY NEXT TO ERIC CARTMAN WITH A WEED WHACKER!!!!

Beams arn't much when DJ can't maintain sustained flight, and shooting just one drains him considerably, forcing him to the ground every time... Plus, Nightmare also has distance attacks, like that shokwave.

Just one more thing, I have to echo Trickster's sentiments and say 'Learn to use the edit button'

would nightmare not tire out first from blocking beam after beam form DJ's eyes?

NightMare has the friggen Soul Edge, he will shread D.Jin. Not only that but he wears armor and can take extreme damage. He's a walking suit of armor. If he can take direct slashes from the Requim, I think he can take D.Jin's energy beams.

Originally posted by beta ray bob
would nightmare not tire out first from blocking beam after beam form DJ's eyes?

No, not at all, since Nightmare would pretty much absorb them, or more effectively, dodge them, Jin can only fire them one at a time, each time he fires, he rears back holding his head... that gives ample time for Nightmare to rush DJ and start swinging a sword thats decimated entire armies throughout history.

one more thing, devil is WAY faster than night mare as hea doesn't have to lug a giant sword around, and there is the fact that he can cut freakin trees in half with his eyes, also if you have played dark ressurection and have seen one of devil jin's victory ritual things,
he feckin' force chokes the guy! also let's see nightmare try to block a flying kick from two meters in the air with a sword that he can barely lift!



...aaand tekken is better than soul calibur

When has Nightmare ever absorbed an energy beam that is as powerful as DJ's? Also, when has Nightmare demonstrated the speed that can avoid those attacks, since I don't think he ever did.


Maybe it's considering it is powerful enough to cut a tower in half, and the part where he's holding his head is bs.


What part of Nightmare cannot get anywhere near DJ considering DJ is hundreds; if not, thousands of feet above him do you not understand? Also, wear does it say that Jin's energy beams drain a considerable amount of his energy? As far as everyone knows, those beams do not seem to have an effect on Jin's energy level. Nightmare will get hurt by those beams. He has not demonstrated invulnerability to any kind of damage at all.

Also, you have no proof to say DJ would get weared down before Nightmare will. After all, Jin has the Devil Gene...and as far as I'm concerned, has almost shown no sign of weakness up to this point.

And those armies...can easily by killed by DJ...any day of the week...

thank you cloud!!


and by the way tekken dark ressurection is better than soul calibur 3

Forgot to mention that DJ has a healing factor. Any damage that Nightmare might possibly cause DJ would be healed automatically.

Damn it! the forum swallowed my reply...

Originally posted by beta ray bob
one more thing, devil is WAY faster than night mare as hea doesn't have to lug a giant sword around, and there is the fact that he can cut freakin trees in half with his eyes, also if you have played dark ressurection and have seen one of devil jin's victory ritual things,
he feckin' force chokes the guy! also let's see nightmare try to block a flying kick from two meters in the air with a sword that he can barely lift!

Heh, yopu don't know SC very well do you... Nightmare swings his sword single handed, and for a sword that sice, he swings it very quickly... Also, if you go back, I said that the Soul Edge imparts vastly powerful Supernatural abilities on it's wielder... One of those is superhuman strength.

Does DJ force cholke during actual combat?... didn'ty think so... looks like a power he can only use on the helpless... and Nightmare is far from helpless.

Originally posted by beta ray bob
...aaand tekken is better than soul calibur

Says you...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
When has Nightmare ever absorbed an energy beam that is as powerful as DJ's? Also, when has Nightmare demonstrated the speed that can avoid those attacks, since I don't think he ever did.

Go back and play Soul Blade... the Soul Edge sucked dry a sealed shrine full of demons and evil spirits... the place was infested with evil energy.

you don't pay attention to the fights or the cinematics do you...? this guy was one shotting 6 people in single strikes... besides, in the game, DJ's beams are very easy to evade... duck, sidestep... oh yeah, thats so hard to do with an attack that takes a full second to fire...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Maybe it's considering it is powerful enough to cut a tower in half, and the part where he's holding his head is bs.

No it's not... fire the beam, standing or flying... he's shaking his head for a good 2 seconds... get your facts straight...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
What part of Nightmare cannot get anywhere near DJ considering DJ is hundreds; if not, thousands of feet above him do you not understand? Also, wear does it say that Jin's energy beams drain a considerable amount of his energy? As far as everyone knows, those beams do not seem to have an effect on Jin's energy level. Nightmare will get hurt by those beams. He has not demonstrated invulnerability to any kind of damage at all.

If DJ fires while hundres or thousands of feet in the air, then h's going to be hitting the ground hard, since he has to land after every shot... Energy drain arguments are the same above... he recoils so badly that it's an ill advised tactic... as for Nightmare's blocking and evading, it's not invulnerability, but Nightmare has dealt with far worse things than a beam shooting birdman...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Also, you have no proof to say DJ would get weared down before Nightmare will. After all, Jin has the Devil Gene...and as far as I'm concerned, has almost shown no sign of weakness up to this point.

You have no proof that Nightmare will tire at all... Anoither Soul Edge fact, Supernaturally enhanced durability and stamina... this guy walks across continents, engaging in lethal battles and chopping up landscapes along the way, and the only reason he stopps, is to siphon energy.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
And those armies...can easily by killed by DJ...any day of the week...

Prove it.

Dang double posting... my edit time ran out...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Forgot to mention that DJ has a healing factor. Any damage that Nightmare might possibly cause DJ would be healed automatically.

Healing factor my ass... the ONLY healing he ever did was during his transformation in T3... thats a one off thing... where else has he EVER healed anything.... I mean for godssake the dude was KOed in T4 by a bunch of soldiers...

And the healing factor in that one instance was not instant, nore was it caused by a demonic blade leaving enormous slash marks with just a slight clip of the blade... any full hit on Jin will be a leathal blow, we're talking lost limbs, decapitation and severed torso's here.... lets see him heal from that...

Geeze... anyone would think you where talking about Wolverine......

That's dormant energy. That has nothing to do with DJ's energy beams. Do you think Nightmare can absorb any kind of energy? A Ki attack from Goku? Spawns necroplasm? Or how about Necrid's weapon made of foreign energy? Do not even say he can because I know that's bs.

DJ in fact can absorb other people's power since canonically, Kazuya has shown that he has the ability to do so, and that is a result of having the Devil Gene. Jin is pretty much the same considering he possesses the Devil Gene as well, and even though his ending is not canonical, it states what would have happened had he won against Jinpachi.

Definite proof that people with the Devil Gene can absorb other people's powers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-AbuvpFFzM


Yes I actually do. That feat is really pathetic. What makes you think Devil couldn't to that? I know for a fact a group of Jacks are stronger, faster, and more durable than a bunch of humans in suits of armor. Guess what? Heihachi was single stricking them to bits, and he managed to lose to Jin. Just imagine how he would have done against DJ.


Yeah if you knew, the reason why it's capable of being dodged is because he wasn't made to be cheap. He has one where he aims a bit towards the ground and it happens instantly as opposed to the one where he hits the opponent in the face.


Yes it is...get your facts straight and watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7pMiIoCVMo


How about giving examples when he ever did?


In your mind I would assume.


I agree it's something he can't do.


You pretty much have no idea who Devil Jin is then.


Did I say he would? And he obviously will get tired fighting other opponents. He is not invulnerable to damage nor does he have everlasting endurance, so he will tire at some point.


I'm sure with the Devil Gene, one has access to superhuman strength and durability. Devil Jin's power can effortlessly turn an entire forest into a barren landscape. Bullets don't affect him and he doesn't even wear armor like Nightmare does. He also took an explosion right in the face and wasn't scratched.


Here I'll prove it:

Jacks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Humans in armor

All that matters is that he did it at least one time, since it proves that he has that power. Also, he was shown doing it in the Tekken 6 preview.


That was Jin. Let's see how well Siegfried does against those.


It was actually. If not, it was just about.


The only way I see Nightmare doing that is if he could fly, which I know he can't.


Let's see if Nightmare can even land a hit...I seriously doubt that if DJ's beams can cut clean though a tower in a split second, it would not kill Nightmare outright. I have not seen Nightmare take an attack with that level of intensity before.


Just because I said DJ has a healing factor? It was proven in more than one cutscene so why should I not bring it up in this argument? You're saying that just because he did it once does not mean he can do it again. That's really funny.

Also, if Nightmare cannot break through metal suits of armor, what makes you think he could pierce DJ considering he has durability that is greater than Jack's?

another thing is that if dj could just cut nightmare's arm off then if that hand had souledge in it then would nightmare not just turn back into a motionless corpse?

He'd not be able to use the Soul Edge, which would make him lose automatically.

exactly

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
That's dormant energy. That has nothing to do with DJ's energy beams. Do you think Nightmare can absorb any kind of energy? A Ki attack from Goku? Spawns necroplasm? Or how about Necrid's weapon made of foreign energy? Do not even say he can because I know that's bs.

Since when is devouring a shrine full of active demons considered Dormant energy? And I never said that Nightmare absorbs the beams, I said he blocks them while absorbing Jin's ambient devil power.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
DJ in fact can absorb other people's power since canonically, Kazuya has shown that he has the ability to do so, and that is a result of having the Devil Gene. Jin is pretty much the same considering he possesses the Devil Gene as well, and even though his ending is not canonical, it states what would have happened had he won against Jinpachi.

Definite proof that people with the Devil Gene can absorb other people's powers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-AbuvpFFzM

Wrong, that prologue never said that he absorbed anything, nor did the Epilogue.... that showed that Kazuya can exert some influence over his other half (The half of the Devil that Jin inherited from Kazuya), that does not prove that the Devils have general absorbtion power.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Yes I actually do. That feat is really pathetic. What makes you think Devil couldn't to that? I know for a fact a group of Jacks are stronger, faster, and more durable than a bunch of humans in suits of armor. Guess what? Heihachi was single stricking them to bits, and he managed to lose to Jin. Just imagine how he would have done against DJ.

Uh hun... Nightmare was smashing upwards of 6 men at a time in comparison to Heihachi and Kaz's one each... and klets not forget that the Soul Calibur world is set in a time when soldiers where far stronger than normal men of our time, wearing 60KG plus armour and wielding all sorts of weapons, plus they are trained to kill with their weapons. Jacs arn't that superior. especially those ones that where designed as kamikaze soldiers.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Yeah if you knew, the reason why it's capable of being dodged is because he wasn't made to be cheap. He has one where he aims a bit towards the ground and it happens instantly as opposed to the one where he hits the opponent in the face.

He only uses that one on downed opponents, hows DJ going to knock him down? and that particular beam does pathetic damage compared with the other two... Oh, and he can't use that one in the air. Try again...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Yes it is...get your facts straight and watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7pMiIoCVMo

Again, your reffering to the one he uses on downed opponent, and since DJ ain't knocking nightmare down without closing the gap, and as soon as DJ is inm range, he's dead courtasy of that huge sword.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
How about giving examples when he ever did?

In the game... whenever he took to the sky and fired the beam, he landed on his knees and was stunned for a good 2 to 3 seconds... play the game dude...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
In your mind I would assume.

Play the damn game... fire either of his two main beams... if this is beyond you, then you shouldn't be arguing in this debate.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
I agree it's something he can't do.

Don't go taking what I say out of context, dodging beams is easy, and although the beams are unblockable in Tekken, Tekkn doesn't have weapons.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
You pretty much have no idea who Devil Jin is then.

Now your assuming, I made that sting at DJ because of the way you'r overrating him. Dude... Inferno was a much tougher opponent that DJ or Jinpachi.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Did I say he would? And he obviously will get tired fighting other opponents. He is not invulnerable to damage nor does he have everlasting endurance, so he will tire at some point.

You said how do I prove that DJ will tire before Nightmare will, and I asked you to prove that Nightmare will tire at all, since as far as I know, the only things to stop him, where acts of PIS and plot device, Example: the Yuga items and Soul Calibur, Sigfried struggling from within, and raphael piercing Soul Edge's core during that struggle. However... Nightmare, even after crossing VAST distances, deserts, forests, mountains... (Three continents worth, Europe, Africa, Asia), fighting as many opponents as he can along the way, and yet he never stopped, and never slept. thats as close to everlasting endurance as you can get, and you thing DJ will outlast him?!

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
I'm sure with the Devil Gene, one has access to superhuman strength and durability. Devil Jin's power can effortlessly turn an entire forest into a barren landscape. Bullets don't affect him and he doesn't even wear armor like Nightmare does. He also took an explosion right in the face and wasn't scratched.

What explosion? and bullets did penetrate his skin... guess what that means, the sword is going through him just as easily as anyone else. And while the Devil gene does grant some supernatural powers (Only a fool'd deny that), It's nowhere near the level of Soul Edge.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Here I'll prove it:

Jacks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Humans in armor

Thats not proof... thats A>B>C logic, thats not admissable

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
All that matters is that he did it at least one time, since it proves that he has that power. Also, he was shown doing it in the Tekken 6 preview.

Has he healed any serious wounds? has he survived being hacked into peices? can he survive his energy and soul being devoured?... No? well then he'd better be alot better than Nightmare in other areas, because his endurance just won't outmatch the kind of damage Nightmare will dish out.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
That was Jin. Let's see how well Siegfried does against those.

dude, the guy resisted sleeping for ages we're talking weeks on end, he was afraid of becoming Nightmare again.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
It was actually. If not, it was just about.

It took some time..., anyways, it doesn't matter. Inless Jin is like Hideo Gamma from Ninja Scroll and is able to reattach lost body parts, Jin's healing factor os just not going to cut it

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
The only way I see Nightmare doing that is if he could fly, which I know he can't.

Jin can't stay in the air forever, once he lands, either after firing a beam, or tiring from running, Nightmare will be waiting.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Let's see if Nightmare can even land a hit...I seriously doubt that if DJ's beams can cut clean though a tower in a split second, it would not kill Nightmare outright. I have not seen Nightmare take an attack with that level of intensity before.

Heh, you havn't seen siegfried take on Inferno then.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Just because I said DJ has a healing factor? It was proven in more than one cutscene so why should I not bring it up in this argument? You're saying that just because he did it once does not mean he can do it again. That's really funny.

He doesn't do it regularly, and besides, it's moot, see above...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Also, if Nightmare cannot break through metal suits of armor, what makes you think he could pierce DJ considering he has durability that is greater than Jack's?

He did break through those suits of armour... easily.... what the hell are you smoking?

Originally posted by beta ray bob
another thing is that if dj could just cut nightmare's arm off then if that hand had souledge in it then would nightmare not just turn back into a motionless corpse?

I would LOVE to see DJ try to pull that off, because DJ will be the one sporting lost limbs.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero





In the game... whenever he took to the sky and fired the beam, he landed on his knees and was stunned for a good 2 to 3 seconds... play the game dude...




if you had played dark ressurection then you would have seen one of DJ's grabs he shot two lasers and did not tire or even recoil from either. they only put the recoil to prevent DJ from repeatedly shooting lasers repeatedly IN ACTUAL NON-STORYLINE-INFLUENCING COMBAT! YOU PLAY THE GAME

Originally posted by beta ray bob
if you had played dark ressurection then you would have seen one of DJ's grabs he shot two lasers and did not tire or even recoil from either

Thats a grab, hows DJ going to get close enough to perform that without getting hacked into peices?

nono he flings them WAY into the air like 30 ft. then shoots them

i think cloud has a video of it...

Devil had no such recoil in his lasers... why would they add them into Jin's lasers?

And, Jin still needs to get in close to fling them up into the air in order to fire the beam. Nightmare's superior reach will make it incredibly difficult to get close enough for the fling. remember, Nightmare's packing a huge sword that toutdistances Jin';s limbs 2 to 1.

indead..cloud and beta are fighting a lost battle
if DJ takes to the sky, he either falls because he shoot a beam and crashes, or he tires and falls anyway..if he tries to attack up close he'll be hacked to peices..
DJ doesnt have the range to go toe-to-toe, or the endurance to go long range..

it makes no difference because if we are going according to the game then DJ can block nightmare's sword and then grab him for 45% of his health then lazer him when he is on the ground, then just use demon scissors move and nightmare has a pancake for a face

Alright, lets take that road, Nightmare's 8-way run, tech hitting out if grapples, advancing guard out of strikes (All of which are very easy to do and every character can do) renders most of Jin's offence useless.

Plus, Nightmare has some wicked combo's for a sword wielder. Oh, BTW, just how is DJ blocking the sword?

gauntlets my fiend, gauntlets

Originally posted by beta ray bob
gauntlets my fiend, gauntlets

How are those things going to block a huge ass sword? I can safely say that those gauntlets won't last long against that kind of onslaught.

dude if it were in the game then namco would want to make it fair cause heihachi can block nightmare's sword in sc2 (ps2 version) and his gauntlets are incedibly thin

He also has alot of different types, Jin has ones that where dsigned for hand to hand combat, not for blocking swords.

he can block yoshimistu's katana and not take any damage

Originally posted by beta ray bob
he can block yoshimistu's katana and not take any damage

Thats nothing in comparison to being hit by hundreds of pounds worth of demon blade being swung by a superstrength empowered psycho knight.

Oh yeah, one other thing... all of Yoshi's blade attacks are unblockable, same with kunnimitsu's knife attacks...

im not gonna argue anymore..we know that nightmare wont be beaten by DJ...theres no way DJ can touch nightmare without getting cut to pieces, so this topic os over...accept it
btw...sc WTFPWNS tekken

soul calibur is like tekken with swords, the philosophy behind it? who ever has the bigger weapon wins. in tekken all the characters are equal, except for nina and if this fight is going according to the game then dj can block nighmare's sword so it would not be unfair, but if it would go according to real life then devil jin would simply cut nightmare in half as he did to a TOWER! because if it were real life(ish) then nighmare's sword would be cut in half

the fighting in SC is much more fluid and caculated, plus it has a great story for a fighting game
the lasers would only affect soul edge if SE were a mortal sword...which i doubt it is..
besides your basing the laser arguement on the change it will kill NM instantly if they hit him, which they wont, and then DJ will be grounded so NM can finish him..

you did not read my earlier post, if the laws of physics applied to the fight
then sould edge would be made of metal therefore able to be cut in half by a laser capable of halving an 8-10 story tower

the laws of physcis dont cover magic..and the SE is magical..that arguement is moot..

if magic does not apply to the laws of physics then dj can shoot lasers out of his forehead evert 1/2 second like that move in tekken (square+triangle up)

i didnt say he couldnt do that...it doesnt make any difference whatsoever..

you didn't say he couldn't

i didnt personally..

ha

Laws of physics? no, laws of logic? yes yes... Soul Edge is a Demon Weapon, prove that DJ's beams won't actually be bounced off of the surface of such a weapon.

DJ has no real way to win here... His beams are too prdictable, his strength is only so, so compared to alot of the stuff NM has faced and killed.

I agree, and by saying that Jin needs to get more power demonstrates his own weakness.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Laws of physics? no, laws of logic? yes yes... Soul Edge is a Demon Weapon, prove that DJ's beams won't actually be bounced off of the surface of such a weapon.
DJ's beam is a demonic beam of energy. Prove that DJ's beams will actually bounce of the Soul Edge, let alone Nightmare putting up his weapon fast enough to block it.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
DJ has no real way to win here... His beams are too prdictable,
Yeah Lili and Hwoarang predicted DJ would slice a tower in half.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
his strength is only so, so compared to alot of the stuff NM has faced and killed.
Inferno was his greatest feat, I believe. However, I do not see how the methods he used to overcome Inferno will work on DJ.

But thats still moot since Nightmare always has his weapon

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I agree, and by saying that Jin needs to get more power demonstrates his own weakness.
I disagree, and Nightmare's weakness is that he needs to use Soul Edge otherwise he's nothing.

Originally posted by Tallis
But thats still moot since Nightmare always has his weapon
I'm just pointing out his weakness, since DJ does not need more power to win in this case.

exactly, and dj could just shot barrage after barrage of lazers at nightmare until he eventually hit, or simply fly in to the air and use his lazer to cut the ground apart from underneath nightmare

hows that gonna work if dj is grounded and dazed after every lazer attack he uses??

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
DJ's beam is a demonic beam of energy. Prove that DJ's beams will actually bounce of the Soul Edge, let alone Nightmare putting up his weapon fast enough to block it.

Soul Edge's capability of blocking energy, plus it's energy absorbtion capability, plus the fact that only holy or 'Good' energy stands a chance of doing any damage... there you go, 3 things right off the bat.

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Yeah Lili and Hwoarang predicted DJ would slice a tower in half.

Whats that got to do with the price of fish?

Dude, Nightmare deals with beam users in practically every game...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
Inferno was his greatest feat, I believe. However, I do not see how the methods he used to overcome Inferno will work on DJ.

Inferno was an absolute monter, and yes, even capable of flight, levitating an entire battlefield, and drawing people into it'schaos realm... yeah, Jin's a whole new ballgame...

Originally posted by Cloud_VII
I disagree, and Nightmare's weakness is that he needs to use Soul Edge otherwise he's nothing.

Even as Siegfried, before he got Soul Edge, he was strong enouygh to beat Inferno when the thing was using Cervante's remnants.

Originally posted by MadMel
hows that gonna work if dj is grounded and dazed after every lazer attack he uses?? you are giving nightmare his abilities that he uses outside the game and giving jin nothing other then what he can only do in the game ( the only reason he is dazed is so he cant shoot repeated beams as a normal attack) except for his upward beam, i mentioned this before, he does not stall after using his anti-air beam, because he can't hit them again with it, if we are talking a bout a cutscene style fight instead of in-game, jin can shoot lazers when he wants and how he wants. also have you seen hwoarang's tekken5 ending? DJ puts forth his hand and telekineticly crushes hwoarang's motorbike, if he does that to nighmares armor? nighmare will look like a cornfield with metal instead of corn, and if nightmare has any nerves whatsoever he would feint from over-stimulation

is that ending canon??

HELLFIRE cannon

Originally posted by beta ray bob
you are giving nightmare his abilities that he uses outside the game and giving jin nothing other then what he can only do in the game ( the only reason he is dazed is so he cant shoot repeated beams as a normal attack) except for his upward beam, i mentioned this before, he does not stall after using his anti-air beam, because he can't hit them again with it, if we are talking a bout a cutscene style fight instead of in-game, jin can shoot lazers when he wants and how he wants. also have you seen hwoarang's tekken5 ending? DJ puts forth his hand and telekineticly crushes hwoarang's motorbike, if he does that to nighmares armor? nighmare will look like a cornfield with metal instead of corn, and if nightmare has any nerves whatsoever he would feint from over-stimulation

No where not... what good is the Anti Air beam anyway, it's very underpowered... and no, Jin does not shoot beams how and when he wants, if this was so, why did it take so long for him to fire one at Howarang despite being on the defensive...

The force cholke argument again? please, Nightmare has thrown off far worse attacks than anything Jin can dish out...

i am not talking a bout force choke, he can explode things with his MIND!!!nuke

Originally posted by beta ray bob
you are giving nightmare his abilities that he uses outside the game and giving jin nothing other then what he can only do in the game ( the only reason he is dazed is so he cant shoot repeated beams as a normal attack) except for his upward beam, i mentioned this before, he does not stall after using his anti-air beam, because he can't hit them again with it, if we are talking a bout a cutscene style fight instead of in-game, jin can shoot lazers when he wants and how he wants. also have you seen hwoarang's tekken5 ending? DJ puts forth his hand and telekineticly crushes hwoarang's motorbike, if he does that to nighmares armor? nighmare will look like a cornfield with metal instead of corn, and if nightmare has any nerves whatsoever he would feint from over-stimulation Does telekinetic attacks create a bright light to blow stuff up? Big f*cking negative, that's complete bull.

And could you at least give a confirmation of that that ending is canon?

it is canon because it does not matter if hwoarang wins the tournament or not as long as he is not deadwhich did not happen, and devil jin does not create a light while using telekinesis, play the game and u may understand

My mistake, the light came from the motorcycle but there's nothing suggesting he used a telekinetic attack of any kind, that's just you making shit up.

And I've played every damn Tekken and he has never used or shown any kind telekinetic abilities btw.

Originally posted by beta ray bob
i am not talking a bout force choke, he can explode things with his MIND!!!nuke

No he didn't... he compressed the fuel tank on the bike, and that caused the explosion.

And no, that ending has not been confirmed as Canon, it's more eye candy and should be treated as such.

This thread is STILL GOING ON?! damn....
Cloud, Betaray, Darkstrom and the rest: props for the stamina guys. you are legimate KMC hightiers now. possibly godtiers

anyway the way i see it:
Nighmare has the advantage of souls, the sword (a big one by the way) and lots and lots of power. in fact powerwise, i'd say that nightmare takes this one since he could blast away people by just powering up. DJ couldn't even stave off pussyboy hwoarang!

DJ has the advantage of longrange attacks, flight, and the fact that he uses martial arts....and he's pretty good at it too. Deviil Jin definitely has speed. i'm sure darkstorm and gang you all agree too. aside from that DJ can also use the tele...well whatever it was that he used against Hwoarang in his T5 ending. And people let me give you a headsup regarding tekken endings: they never show a character do something he CANT do. all the feets performed in the endings are something that characters CAN DO be the ending canon or not.
Now the way i see it, if DJ can attack Hworang from that distance and wreck his whole bike up then that means that Nightmare is in for trouble since DJ might as well crush his armor and make a "seigfriend sardine can" out of him. however, Nightmare was capable of blasting all those people away by just powering up so that means that DJ can't use these powers on him since all Nightmare has to do is blast him away like how he did with those people. so that means that "tele...whatever" is so-so for both of them and hence not a decisive factor.
That leaves beams. DSZ mentions how beams aren nothing new for Nightare and DSZ i'll take your word for it buddy since you've corrected me on more than one occassion
nor does that mean much against someone who himself is capable of giving off such explosions of power to blast people away. i'm sure he can use something like that against DJ.
DJ also cannot continuously perform those attacks as like anything else it does take an effort to do. i don't think Jin can go on flying forever shooting those beams since from that Tekken6 ad, it does take a hell of an effort to do and takes a lot out of him. the move itself took him a good few seconds to power up enough to do.

DJ and Nightmare will definitely fight man to man and man-to-man doesn't mean one of them flying around. of course DJ can fly to avoid some attaks but he has to come to groud since he can't go around flying forever (and i already mentioned that he can't do those beam attacks forever either). I see DJ being able to pull it off only once or twice...thrice on the days he hasn't jerked off after landing facefirst into asuka's bust again
Nightamre always has the option of:
-avoiding it.
-answering with something similar to how he powered up and blasted those people away

i'm not saying blocking it since though his massive 6foot zwheihander which is sturdy enough and laden with evil energy, however does that mean that DJ can tear down a giant building or tower with his beam but not a sword? probably not.

they willl fight and though Jin does posses enough power to score an upset here, I dont see him lasting against someone as powerful and skilled with a 6foot zhweihander as Nightmare. Nightmare will definitely win....if anything he can atleast wound DJ enough for DJ to opt for an escape.

~The Invincible Sado-sama
P.S. sorry Cloud, but this is just my opinion.

I vote for Devil Jin.

Originally posted by Sado22
This thread is STILL GOING ON?! damn....
Cloud, Betaray, Darkstrom and the rest: props for the stamina guys. you are legimate KMC hightiers now. possibly godtiers

anyway the way i see it:
Nighmare has the advantage of souls, the sword (a big one by the way) and lots and lots of power. in fact powerwise, i'd say that nightmare takes this one since he could blast away people by just powering up. DJ couldn't even stave off pussyboy hwoarang!

DJ has the advantage of longrange attacks, flight, and the fact that he uses martial arts....and he's pretty good at it too. Deviil Jin definitely has speed. i'm sure darkstorm and gang you all agree too. aside from that DJ can also use the tele...well whatever it was that he used against Hwoarang in his T5 ending. And people let me give you a headsup regarding tekken endings: they never show a character do something he CANT do. all the feets performed in the endings are something that characters CAN DO be the ending canon or not.
Now the way i see it, if DJ can attack Hworang from that distance and wreck his whole bike up then that means that Nightmare is in for trouble since DJ might as well crush his armor and make a "seigfriend sardine can" out of him. however, Nightmare was capable of blasting all those people away by just powering up so that means that DJ can't use these powers on him since all Nightmare has to do is blast him away like how he did with those people. so that means that "tele...whatever" is so-so for both of them and hence not a decisive factor.
That leaves beams. DSZ mentions how beams aren nothing new for Nightare and DSZ i'll take your word for it buddy since you've corrected me on more than one occassion
nor does that mean much against someone who himself is capable of giving off such explosions of power to blast people away. i'm sure he can use something like that against DJ.
DJ also cannot continuously perform those attacks as like anything else it does take an effort to do. i don't think Jin can go on flying forever shooting those beams since from that Tekken6 ad, it does take a hell of an effort to do and takes a lot out of him. the move itself took him a good few seconds to power up enough to do.

DJ and Nightmare will definitely fight man to man and man-to-man doesn't mean one of them flying around. of course DJ can fly to avoid some attaks but he has to come to groud since he can't go around flying forever (and i already mentioned that he can't do those beam attacks forever either). I see DJ being able to pull it off only once or twice...thrice on the days he hasn't jerked off after landing facefirst into asuka's bust again
Nightamre always has the option of:
-avoiding it.
-answering with something similar to how he powered up and blasted those people away

i'm not saying blocking it since though his massive 6foot zwheihander which is sturdy enough and laden with evil energy, however does that mean that DJ can tear down a giant building or tower with his beam but not a sword? probably not.

they willl fight and though Jin does posses enough power to score an upset here, I dont see him lasting against someone as powerful and skilled with a 6foot zhweihander as Nightmare. Nightmare will definitely win....if anything he can atleast wound DJ enough for DJ to opt for an escape.

~The Invincible Sado-sama
P.S. sorry Cloud, but this is just my opinion.
'Tsok, I agreed about Nightmare winning the match earlier in this thread, since I was corrected about DJ's Tekken 5 ending being not canon. If it wasn't for that, he would have won the match outright. I said it would be a tie because I like both characters equally. As for why I continued, there were some things I did not agree on.

And...

Originally posted by Sado22
thrice on the days he hasn't jerked off after landing facefirst into asuka's bust again

4izdpBjuViY

LMAO

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No he didn't... he compressed the fuel tank on the bike, and that caused the explosion.

And no, that ending has not been confirmed as Canon, it's more eye candy and should be treated as such.

let us not forget what i said earlier about the telekinetic choke a the end of a match, that is telekinesis reguardless of what's in the game, just like asuka can not punch someone THAT hard like in her ending, just cause DJ does not have a sword does not mean he will lose he can take a few slashes from yoshimitsu's katana, which is WAAAAY sharper than a giand fleshy sword

you evidence?

katana are the sharpest swords in HISTORY they can cut someone in half with one stroke

Too bad that the Soul Edge is a demon weapon... Katana or no Katana, On and DJ can't block Yoshi's sword, since all of Yoshi's attacks with the sword in Tekken are unblockable

Oh, one last thing, you have to prove that Jin can force choke Nightmare while he's fully powered, Jin has only done that kind of attack on an already KOed foe

i was not talking about chiking him i was talking about crushing his armor, and f.y.i. DJ lifts the person up when he chokes them (not suggesting the fact that he should try to choke nightmare, i am merely suggesting that he has telekinetic ability) and by the way i didn't say that he could BLOCK a katana, i said that he can take a lot of hits from one.

Originally posted by beta ray bob
i was not talking about chiking him i was talking about crushing his armor, and f.y.i. DJ lifts the person up when he chokes them (not suggesting the fact that he should try to choke nightmare, i am merely suggesting that he has telekinetic ability) and by the way i didn't say that he could BLOCK a katana, i said that he can take a lot of hits from one.

That armour is a gift from Soul Edge... and you first have to prove that DJ can do that while Nightmare is active. At best DJ can only take one full swing or stab, since the 2nd will kill him.

let's see what nightmare can do right after he swings his sword hmm? he would be open to an attack(did someone say 10 hit combo?)

Dude 10 hit combos are for noobs. D. Jin better not pull that off.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
Dude 10 hit combos are for noobs. D. Jin better not pull that off. ten hit combos are not for noobs, FLOATING is for noobs, besides, devil jin would just use wheel of pain when nightmare is on the ground, from a 10 hit combo, then just use bloody knife-heaven's door, nightmare is dead

Originally posted by beta ray bob
let's see what nightmare can do right after he swings his sword hmm? he would be open to an attack(did someone say 10 hit combo?)

Nightmare's sword swings are very quick for a blade of that size, the only time Jin would have the opprtunity to close that gap would be after a missed Unblockable, and as arule, I never use those with nightmare, unless I've gust done a stunning attack or a GB

Originally posted by beta ray bob
ten hit combos are not for noobs, FLOATING is for noobs, besides, devil jin would just use wheel of pain when nightmare is on the ground, from a 10 hit combo, then just use bloody knife-heaven's door, nightmare is dead

The wheel of pain is SO easy to evade... just sideroll, Oh and one other thing, SC characters can immediately ender a blocking state from being knocked down, just so you know

dude i know what nightmare can do, i have sc3, but devil jin is way faster, then nightmare, besides, you know heihachi's "tekken" weapon from sc2? he can still block with that (even though he still takes SOME damage) can hold off nightmare's sword, and dj has gauntlets.

bare hands>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>gauntlets

You do realise t hat you just countermanded your own argument?

And besides, that Heihachi thing in SC2 wasn't official, otherwise Spawn and Link would also be canon, and thats just F'ed up

As forJin blocking th sword, dude, if the Tekken characters can't block Knives and Yoshimitsu's blade attacks, how in the hell do you conclude that they can block a Superpowerd Demon Sword swung by a Psycho Knight?

most of yoshimitsu's sword attacks deal very little damage, and his strong ones do the same amount in sc,(and they are still unblockable)

However, every swipe of the sword is UNBLOCKABLE in Tekken, even with gauntlets, do you know why?

because swords cannot be blocked by flesh and blood, nore peices of plastic or weak metal (or even strong metals in some cases, hence why armored suits where not as effective in blocking attacks as shields or sword to sword parrying. those are temperd and reforged many times to acheive strength and hardness capable of warding off swords or other weapons of th time.)

Lets not forget that the Soul Edge is a demonic weapon that had gained power over 2000 years, is supernaturally enhanced beyond any weapon of the age short of Soul Calibur, It's capable of performing massive feats across the entire planet, and is capable of imparting any enhancements to it's user.

if nightmare is folowing tekken rules then dj can grab him as he doesn't have 8-way run, if he follows soul calibur rules, devil jin can block his sword.

Basically...

you came back!!

Since when? if going by purely game mechanics, SC3's engine gives Nightmare the edge over DJ and his Tekken 5 DR engine, don't try YET AGAIN to eliminate advantages.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Since when? if going by purely game mechanics, SC3's engine gives Nightmare the edge over DJ and his Tekken 5 DR engine, don't try YET AGAIN to eliminate advantages. [/QUOTE

care to elaborate?

Care to quote correctly? barker

And going by game mechanics is just plain stupid, 'cause if we were then we could say that Samus is incapable of blowing up walls just 'cause the game developers didn't program every f*cking wall to be fully destructible. barker

Listen Beta, we'vebeen going over this for well over a month... You havn't really brought anything to the table, you've brought in incredibly short posts, and for the record, I have been very patient in countering them all...

There is NOTHING Jin brings to the table that Nightmare has not fought before, lets recap:

Flying and lasers: Check
Superpowered strength and speed: Check

Nightmare not only has fought both of these combinations separately, but as a whole combined as well

Nightmare has:

Reach on his regular attacks
Very good speed for the weapon he uses
high attack power and damage
combos
supernaturally enhanced strength, speed, stamina and endurance.
Eons of experience (Via Souledge)
A demonic weapon.

Has Jin ever fought anything with these advantages all rolled into one? True Ogre may come to mind, but let me remind you, that Ogre neither has a weapon, and is much slower.

let's not forget that he can breathe fire, and fly, not to mention the fact that jin alone, with no devil powers, beat true ogre, and this is weak jin, before he switched styles to traditional karate, also do you remember devil within, the last boss, final true ogre, is probably as strong as night terror, and he is really easy to beat, even though you are regular jin, half the time, and you lose health during devil mode, so, that post=moot

AHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Not another one.... Devil Within is NON CANON for starters, two, how can you even compare this Giant form of True Ogre to Night Terror? There is no comparison, NT WFTPWNS him in no time flat, just like he did Zasalamel.

I am saying that everything Jin has fought against, Nightmare has done so many other ways before... this is a no contest. Nightmare OWNS Jin in every department that counts.

we are not comparing regular jin and night terror. i'm just saying that jin is capable of that much strength, and nightmare does not beat jin in fighting skill, if you know a martial art well, then you can easily beat someone who has a weapon, (just look at those brazillians), because i know that nightmare does not know any martial arts, devil jin beats nightmare in the speed department, the range department, and the skill department, not to mention the fact that he can fly.

WTF have you been smoking?

Dude, Nightmare's sword inparts centuries of fighting skills, knowlege and experience... Including those of the far east, the weapon has travelled the world and back. Skills and experience are definitely Nightmare's.

Speed and flight are the only weapons at Jin's disposal, and nightmare is no slouch in the speed department, Range belongs to nightmare because Jin has to rely on fists and feet, His laser being his only long range weapon, is close to useless since Nightmare has had to deal with beamers before (Not to mention Guns, whip blades, staves and other shit)

Even though this isn't entirely one-sided. DJ could win though Nightmare has the better chance of winning.

thank you... I never did say this was a curbstomp, but DJ's chances of winning are about 2 to 3 out of 10

he has dealt with overwhelming odds before

Thats a Hero factor, it's inadmissable, Overwhelming oidds are what Nightmare deals with every day... Armies of people are searching for him due to the sheer massacres he's performed... Not even Cervantes matched Nightmare's carnage.

you have stated that nightmare has overcome soldiers easily, that is anything but overwhelming

Even as Siegfried, he has overcome Inferno, Nightmare did the Evil Seed, slaughtered cities, towns and villages worth of people, destroyed buildings with swipes of his sword, fought against other incredibly powerful warriors equipped with Hero Facors, character shields and Plot Devices...

Do tell who's had it harder?

just because he put up with more sh!t than dj, does not mean he is more powerful, dj destroyed forests over night, cut a tower in half, and (as regular jin) has the ability to beat down what may as well be a fire breathing super natural dinosaur (i know that it's not canon. but just cause it didn't happen does not mean it isn't possible ( if true ogre really did come back) and FYI devil within has not been proven non-canon, and that's not all he did....

Originally posted by beta ray bob
just because he put up with more sh!t than dj, does not mean he is more powerful, dj destroyed forests over night, cut a tower in half, and (as regular jin) has the ability to beat down what may as well be a fire breathing super natural dinosaur (i know that it's not canon. but just cause it didn't happen does not mean it isn't possible ( if true ogre really did come back) and FYI devil within has not been proven non-canon, and that's not all he did....

I don't have to disprove it, since it's impossible to prove a negative, you have to PROVE that DW is official. Nightmare caused the Evil Seed, an event that affected the ENTIRE PLANET, he blew away an entire rolling lain full of soldiers, Siegfried battled Inferno inside the Chaos Realm tht exists inside Soul Edge...

You want to compare powers? Nightmare's powers with Soul Edge far outshine Anything in Tekken, and whatsmore, every event, even the global scale stuff IS Official.

"this is not a popularity contest" like i said in my last post, devil jin is faster with more power than nightmare, he is more powerful than devil (kazuya) and devil kazuya could take nightmare without to much trouble

give proof where DJ can match NMs power

Originally posted by beta ray bob
"this is not a popularity contest" like i said in my last post, devil jin is faster with more power than nightmare, he is more powerful than devil (kazuya) and devil kazuya could take nightmare without to much trouble

I don't debate due to popularity... nor because i like a character more... I debate wioth logic and common sense.

Devil Jin is not stronger or more powerful, and while he is faster, the margin of speed is not great, especially considering what Nightmare is wearing AND carrying.

Devil Kazuya is now more powerful than Nightmare? No... I see that as a separate debate. and IMO (An Oppinion I can back with the same proof that tounces DJ here) that Nightmare will destroy Deviul Kaz as well.

devil jin has telekinesis, just because hwoarang's t5 ending is not canon, does not mean DJ isn't capable of those things

Yes, it does, unless Namco says otherwise.

yay we finally agreed on something!!

Because there is a big difference bitween suspected ability, and demonstrated ability.

Originally posted by beta ray bob
yay we finally agreed on something!!
Negative, read it again, I was disagreeing with you, if something is performed in an non canon ending (in this case) the thing performed never happened according to the game's actual story line unless Namco says otherwise.

Exactly, Darkstorm, Jin is only suspected to have such abilities (by a very few I might add), it's quite possible possible that the motorcycle ran into one of Jin's lasers or possible a punch or a kick, we can't just go "He used telekinesis and I'm basing this on absolutely nothing 'cause you don't see nothing and Jin has never used any telekinesis based attack EVER".

You get my point.

Oh, the monkeys are coming to town, in the shape of a person. Ohh, they're coming to town, and they're ripping it apart....



"IceJaw forced me to write this "

poor abused kamikz..... and, icejaw "Jin has never used a telekinetic attack ever" BLASPHEMEY!!! he has, play dark ressurection, he can lift people by the neck, and since when does it matter if hwaorang wins the tournament, or not, that does not mean DJ doesn't have telekinesis, thats like saying "dante didn't kill one certain demon, so virgil can't move fast"

Originally posted by kamikz
Oh, the monkeys are coming to town, in the shape of a person. Ohh, they're coming to town, and they're ripping it apart....



"IceJaw forced me to write this " w00termm1

Originally posted by beta ray bob
poor abused kamikz..... and, icejaw "Jin has never used a telekinetic attack ever" BLASPHEMEY!!! he has, play dark ressurection, he can lift people by the neck, and since when does it matter if hwaorang wins the tournament, or not, that does not mean DJ doesn't have telekinesis, thats like saying "dante didn't kill one certain demon, so virgil can't move fast" When exactly does he do that? Is it a new move or is it something you just had to pick out from probably non canon ending? Uhhh, you can't be serious, of course it matters 'cause Tekken = the tournament. By your 'logic' (hysterical) everybodys' ending would be canon and then you would have seen Xaiyou trying to save Jin (or maybe it was Kazuya, I dunno) from being dropped into the canyon in the anime movie and who would be the owner of the Zaibatsu? Jin? 'Cause by your 'logic' his ending is also canon..wait, that means that Heihachi's ending is canon too and he sent Jin, Kazuya and his own father *cough*Jinpachi*cough* to outer space so those guys shouldn't even star in Dark resurrection and the would need a new final boss.


That's ^ not logic, Bob -- That's complete crazyness.

Owned. doped