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From the book Shatterpoint, Mace realizes that Count Dooku was the shatterpoint of the CIS, but after the start of the war and the months into it, that shatterpoint disappeared. Mace also knows that the Republic could have killed Dooku by bombing Geonosis arena?

My question:

Should Mace Windu have bombed the Geonosis arena and perhaps prevented a devastating war?

Remember: Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme were all in that arena. We know from Qui-Gon Jinn that Anakin is the Chosen One.

What would be the consequences of the Chosen One not fulfilling his prophecy?

Please give me your input. And vote in the poll.


p.s: I also put this thread in the EU forum by accident. So I am putting it here as well.

this doesnt belong here. its expanded universe.

To be fair, although it is a point raised by the EU, he is asking about a film event.

Its an interesting question.

Precision bombing yould have been in order.

They should have just taken a larty and beamed the heck out Poggle's box.

they should have used that technology to guide a precition missile at dooku.

then again, if they did palp and dooku would have ruled the galaxy forever, and no ep 3, 4, 5 or 6.

Jedi aren't murderers, and they certainly wouldn't sacrifice their best 200 Knights and Masters for no reason.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Jedi aren't murderers, and they certainly wouldn't sacrifice their best 200 Knights and Masters for no reason.

the more correct point would be that jedi would not kill tens of thousands of sentient beings for any purpose other then defense against a direct attack. they would be no better than the empire if they did.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Jedi aren't murderers, and they certainly wouldn't sacrifice their best 200 Knights and Masters for no reason. i think he meant when there was ONLY padme, anakin, and obi-wan before the 200 jedi arrived. THe threadmaster wanted MAce to sacrifice the three just to stop the war.

Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Jedi aren't murderers, and they certainly wouldn't sacrifice their best 200 Knights and Masters for no reason.

They aren't murders, but they kill people...hmmm.

I would definately sacrifice Anakin and Padme, but you can't get rid of Kenobi, he kicks ***

Hell yeah they should've bombed. Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan would have understood their sacrafice. The Geonosians, traitors, would have been killed, the droid foundaries wiped out (a lot of them, in anycase), Dooku killed without the possible loss of any Jedi, the Sepratists vanquished. Hello? Two Jedi and a Senator or the entire Jedi Order, the Republic, and thousands of civilians? Well, the Republic would have been gone anyway, but you get my meaning.

Originally posted by Council#13
Hell yeah they should've bombed. Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan would have understood their sacrafice. The Geonosians, traitors, would have been killed, the droid foundaries wiped out (a lot of them, in anycase), Dooku killed without the possible loss of any Jedi, the Sepratists vanquished. Hello? Two Jedi and a Senator or the entire Jedi Order, the Republic, and thousands of civilians? Well, the Republic would have been gone anyway, but you get my meaning.

taking that further, the rise of the empire, the death of billions of lives in the following years and alderan blow, literally, blown to pieces.

aslo, the kills in the movies are against droids or people to strong and powerful to be left alive, like mace was going to do against palp'.

Originally posted by Alliance
They aren't murders, but they kill people...hmmm.

name one instance where there killed someone who was not directly attacking them. even when a jedi IS being attacked directly, they will opt to spare the attacker's life if possible. this is proven over and over.

I doubt it. At the time it seemed that their was nothing to bomb the arena with. Don't forget that at the time the clone army came a bunch of Jedi were in the arena.

yeah, but the question seems to be whether the jedi should have NOT sent the cavalry and bombed the arena.

Originally posted by General Kon-El
i think he meant when there was ONLY padme, anakin, and obi-wan before the 200 jedi arrived. THe threadmaster wanted MAce to sacrifice the three just to stop the war.

Well the Jedi know Obi Wan only was there, but i still think they would sacrifice him even though he's one of the worst jedi.

Originally posted by PVS
yeah, but the question seems to be whether the jedi should have NOT sent the cavalry and bombed the arena.

Yeah, that was what Mace describes in the book (one of the few pieces of EU that I actually read), was that the Jedi considered it because of Kenobi's message about the droid armies, the Trade Federation's alliance with Dooku, and the Viceroy's attempts on Amidala's life.

When they showed up, they knew all 3 of them were there (could sense them in the Force) and the book makes it seem as though it was considered an option to bomb the arena, for like a split second before what we saw in the film.



And of course they shouldn't, for all of the reasons already stated.

They could have just Base Delta Zeroed the planet.

Meh, they should've just bombed the damn thing

If your saying this should have happened in the film, it's not a good idea for a writr to kill off all his characters in the sake of realism.

If your saying what would happen if, and not concerning the film plot, then I guess your right, although did the Republic have any decent bombers at that time?

I'm sure they had some

I've never read Shatterpoint, but... was the Republic fleet orbiting the planet while Mace attacked?

Did the Republic even have a fleet? I thought they had one when the clones came along.

Come on.. i think even with count dooku dead Palpatine would have carried on with the war thru some other means.

Remember it was the apprentice that would be killed, not the master. This was proven in Episode I - with Maul's death, Palpatine did not let in hinter his plans for domination.

Bombing the arena would be senseless. Jedi cant do that. There are innocent civillians involved too, not to mention the jedis themselves. They shud not commit the same mistake the americans made in hiroshima and nagasaki.

Originally posted by Cybervader
Remember it was the apprentice that would be killed, not the master. This was proven in Episode I - with Maul's death, Palpatine did not let in hinter his plans for domination.


That makes me think - what would Palpatine have done if Maul had lived. Because from what we saw from the movies very little would have been possible without Dooku. Dooku had wealth, power and political influence that Maul could never dream of having. So if there was no Dooku who would have been there to split the Republic in two? Who would have created the CIS/Clone Army and who would have started an inter galactic war? Because personally I dont see Maul being able to do any of this.

Of course Maul wouldn't have been able to. Palpatine adapted his plans when needed, he still would have succeeded, maybe sooner, who knows.

Hmmm now i really wonder what it would be like if Maul was not killed. I think Palps would nonetheless still employ Dooku to his service, as in having him on his side to do all the dirty political work.

Maul would be the terror in the CIS. Although if that is the case, the Republic would been alerted earlier that the separatist movement was Sith inspired.

Maul wasn't a CIS type of guy. He strikes me as more espionage and tactics...not a political leader.

Nor a charismatic figurehead.

Originally posted by Alliance
Maul wasn't a CIS type of guy. He strikes me as more espionage and tactics...not a political leader.

Nope.. of course he would not be a political leader. He would be the 'terror of the CIS'.. something like general grievous, but of a higher influence than Dooku.

Originally posted by Cybervader
but of a higher influence than Dooku.

Lol, Dooku was the most important and influential figure in the CIS. He single handedly split the Republic in two with that influence. Yes Maul would be the 'terror', much the same as Greivous but still not more important/influential than Dooku.

hmm. in terms of stature i would agree. But i based the theory that maul would be of a higher influence than dooku because he was Palps apprentice. Remember we're talking about how the situation would have been should maul was not killed.

Dooku could be a dark figure but not a full-fledged Sith. The Rule of Two forbits it. Though Palps could ask dooku kill off maul the way anakin was ask to do to dooku. But then again i would think palps would love maul, cos he trained him since young.

Though personally, the idea that both maul and dooku is alive, with maul of higher stand than dooku, seems rather odd.

True, based on the assumption that Dooku wouldnt be the apprentice. But I think that Dooku would be the figure head/grand leader that needed to be destroyed, and Maul would be the terror that constantly turned the tides of battle.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Lol, Dooku was the most important and influential figure in the CIS. He single handedly split the Republic in two with that influence. Yes Maul would be the 'terror', much the same as Greivous but still not more important/influential than Dooku.

Actually he wasn't, Mace knew this. He was just the Political Leader, he had little more purpose than that, Grievous was the real face of the CIS, he led the armies, and kicked Jedi ass, Dooku was relatively useless to Palpatine after the war started.

Maul would be a terror on the battlefield, no doubt by AOTC, he would be incredibly strong, on par with Grievous perhaps

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Actually he wasn't, Mace knew this. He was just the Political Leader, he had little more purpose than that, Grievous was the real face of the CIS, he led the armies, and kicked Jedi ass, Dooku was relatively useless to Palpatine after the war started.


Dooku was irrelevant as a military figure. But take him out and the political side of the CIS crumbles. There would no longer be any figure head convincing the systems to join the CIS etc. And without political strength the CIS' funds will drop thus reducing the army size etc. So if you took out Dooku, who is at the top, everything else will fall eventually. If you took out Greivous only the military side would suffer.

Imagine, what if maul is alive all the way. but dooku died instead. Would Palps still asked of anakin to kill off maul? Yes anakin is stronger and the 'chosen one'. But maul is palpy's baby..

All that Sidious cared about was having the strongest apprentice possible. If he was put in the situation of having either Maul or Anakin he woul choose Anakin, for he had more potential than anyone. Thats why in ROTJ he wanted Luke, Vader had lost so much potential he had become obsolete.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Dooku was irrelevant as a military figure. But take him out and the political side of the CIS crumbles. There would no longer be any figure head convincing the systems to join the CIS etc. And without political strength the CIS' funds will drop thus reducing the army size etc. So if you took out Dooku, who is at the top, everything else will fall eventually. If you took out Greivous only the military side would suffer.

Actually most of the Funding for the CIS came from the Banking Clan, Trade Federation, and everything else. Grievous could easily convince planets to surrender out of fear, and Palpatine was calling the shots for what they both were supposed to do, not like Dooku was planning all of this.

Dooku's importance was to create the army, start the war, and see that it moved on so it wouldn't be over in a week, and I guess so he could turn Anakin.

Originally posted by Darth Kreiger
Actually most of the Funding for the CIS came from the Banking Clan, Trade Federation, and everything else.

True. But like Nute Gunray said "General, without Count Dooku, I have doubts about your ability to keep us safe." With Dooku gone they lost faith. They only stayed through fear of Greivous.




I doubt that Greivous would be able to convince a planet to join the CIS through fear alone. Besides, GG was a wanted man in the Republic. If he showed his face in a Republic owned system he would e reported immediately. Dooku however can reason with the system, bribe the sytem etc. Then if something went wrong he can jusy use the force to influence them.



Dooku took care of the political side of the CIS, Greivous was the military side. Dooku still had to convince systems to join the CIS, he still had to make sure that all business ventures were running smoothly, he still had to make sure his acolytes were doing as told etc.

I agree with most of your points, but Grievious did not hold the CIS through fear alone. The Seperatist planets were heavily invested in the war. They weren't going anywhere, even if Grievous was the only visible leader of the CIS.

Grievous was the General, Dooku the Commander in Chief persay.