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I decided to visit the KTTC forum...and I am always amazed at what these people have to say.. Have they even seen the same movie. They call Jack the Anti-Hero....They say the movie is just as much about the Will/Liz romance as it is about Jack Sparrow....sometimes I get the feeling they don't even like the Character of Jack the way they bash him and build up Will....it's a curious thing..isn't it???

IF POTC/DMC was about the Liz/Will romance...i doubt seriously that DMC would have topped $1billion....cuz it's just plain boring....it's all those hot scenes between jack and liz that have sent it soaring...and what will happen after the kiss when they meet face to face again...

"curiostiy" speaks volumes...what a great conversation...and what a prelude as to what is going to happen at the end of the movie...and what each character wants from the other...and each receives it...

Liz wanting Jack to prove that he is a good man, that he will have the opportunity to do the right thing...to do something courageous....

And Jack wanting Liz to prove that she will come over to his side...to act on selfish impulse...longing for freedom...to act without thinking....to be a PIRATE...

When you look at it that way...why wouldn't it be a Jack/Liz thing....

Oh no, here I go analyzing again...I just wanted to start relaxing and wait for the DVD to come out...and then I had to go and read all those silly postings on KTTC about how great Will is and how bad and selfish Jack is......

Oh yea, and another curious thing...some of these people who are so adamant about Liz/Will have pictures of Jack/liz kissing in their avatars and signatures...go figure??????

i know isnt it stupid....i think they do this on purpose to aggrevate us. they act as anti-jack not the actor johnny the character. i dont understand these ppl. sometimes when i go i get im just like "...uh..." too many snobs...anti-jack ppl but stil have icons of jack and liz...wtf

im going to go there right now and see 4 myself what they write..*goes to kttc*

Does anybody know why the KTTC "W/E" shippers are so confidant that the compass is not pointing to Jack....they say that it's either pointing through Jack to Will...it means she needs Jack to find Will...or it means she doens't want Jack she just wants the life Jack has..his freedom???Uh????? Even just watching it for the first time...before I'd seen it 4 more times...before I ever read anything on the internet, before I'd seen any reviews, or wrote on any forum...I picked up on the fact that the compass was pointing to JACK. That's obvious..cuz it's the one and only thing I was sure of after watching it just one time...the movie is so full of symbolisms and underlying plots....and so much action and dialogue..it was very hard to understand the movie in just one shot. I left the movie thinking, "now what exactly was that movie all about?" But one thing that was for sure...something had changed between Liz and Jack ....

LOL!! when I showed the m that 12 step thing..and said that each character has accepted their true elixir before the movie closes..they just couldnt handle it and they started to bully me!

someone should tell them what an anti hero actually is..its usually a criminally insane man who does the heroic act for reasons they find heroic..but they usually do some pretty messed up, evil stuff in order to gain their elixir l..Jack didn't do that..he defeated the kraken for Elizabeth

and lovethemtigers

thats BS! what they say about the compass..because Ted and terry basically SAID it pointed to Jack for Jack when Liz looked at it..and they also said it wasn't for sex..she has feelings for the man...I remember bringing that up too and they were like "I think you are misunderstanding what he is saying waa!"..and I asked "care to explain better than them and me then?..and they shut up.

.they also said it didn't point there because she wants to be a pirate It pointed to him as a MAN

and they will try to squash you when you say Jack wants Liz in his life..and I said that Tiia knows this and they said "no she's only talking about the real chest" So I said "Then why is he loath to claim it??"..he WANTS the real chest..he's worried about claiming Liz..and Ted Elliot basically explained that he was..and thats what his compass was doing.

Originally posted by LovelyOne
someone should tell them what an anti hero actually is..its usually a criminally insane man who does the heroic act for reasons they find heroic..but they usually do some pretty messed up, evil stuff in order to gain their elixir l..Jack didn't do that..he defeated the kraken for Elizabeth

and lovethemtigers

thats BS! what they say about the compass..because Ted and terry basically SAID it pointed to Jack for Jack when Liz looked at it..and they also said it wasn't for sex..she has feelings for the man...I remember bringing that up too and they were like "I think you are misunderstanding what he is saying waa!"..and I asked care to explain better than them then?..and they shut up.

.they also said it didn't point there because she wants to be a pirate It pointed to him as a MAN

That's what I mean...they are almost anti_jack over there...yet they have pics of Jack all over their postings...I just don't get it. Why would the official website for the MOVIES let all these people post all these negative comments about their money man - Captain Jack Sparrow. Jack is meant to be the hero of this trilogy...not Will....the writers originally wanted the story to focus on Will ...but when they saw Jack's portrayal of Sparrow and the audiences' react and love for him..they changed their minds...that's why DMC is all about Jack..and what Jack wants...and Jack's adventures....not Will and Liz...the only reason Will and LIz end up in the adventure...is because of Jack, otherwise they would be happily married in Port Royal...living their boring life....why does Will end up on the Flying Dutchman and is reunited with his Father...because of JACK...why is Elizabeth having the adventure of a lifetime...because of JACK...what is the major plot...JACK HAS A DEBT TO PAY...TO DAVY JONES...AND HE IS IN A RACE AGAINST TIME TO SAVE HIS LIFE AND OTHERS...CUZ IF HE CAN CONTROL DAVY AND THE SEA..THEN JACK CAN RID THE WORLD OF THE HORRIBLE BEASTIE..THE KRACKEN..THUS SAVING HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER INNOCENT SAILORS LIVES....So, again...I wonder why the KTTC people are so anti-Jack and so pro-Will...I just don't get it...I'm serious ...sorry Kate and Sailorleo and Diddly and all the others that like Will....I think if AWE came out and Will only had a cameo appearance....the movie would still be a HUGE success...but if Jack only has a cameo appearance...then well, look for AWE to not even pass the 500,000 dollar mark.

Here is Wikipedia's version of what an Anti-Hero is:

Anti-hero
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In literature and film, an anti-hero has widely come to mean a fictional character who has some characteristics that are antithetical to those of the traditional hero. An anti-hero in today's books and films will perform acts generally deemed "heroic," but will do so with methods, manners, or intentions that may not be heroic. The actual use of the word, however, is fairly recent, and its primary meaning has somewhat changed. As recently as 1940, the 600,000-word Merriam-Webster New International Dictionary, Second Edition, listed it but without a definition. By 1992 the American Heritage Dictionary of the American Language defined an anti-hero only as "a main character in a dramatic or narrative work who is characterized by a lack of traditional heroic qualities, such as idealism or courage," not as a person who nevertheless performs heroic acts. Even the more recent Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition, of 2004, says: "(1714): a protagonist or notable figure who is conspicuously lacking in heroic qualities." The original meaning, therefore, is that of a protagonist who is ineffectual and hapless, rather than resolute and determined, whether his motives are good or bad. In some instances, anti-hero has come to refer to a protagonist of a work whose actions and motives are villainous or questionable.

Thus, anti-heroes can be awkward, antisocial, alienated, cruel, obnoxious, passive, pitiful, obtuse, or just ordinary. When the anti-hero is a central character in a work of fiction the work will frequently deal with the effect their flawed character has on them and those they meet along the narrative. In other words, an anti-hero is a protagonist that lives by the guidance of their own moral compass, striving to define and construe their own values as opposed to those recognized by the society in which they live. Additionally, the work may depict how their character alters over time, either leading to punishment, un-heroic success, or redemption.

So...this could apply to Jack is some ways...he does start off in DMC appearing cowardly and going about his journey in somewhat of an untraditional manner by running scared, by sending Will over to the Flying Dutchman...by striking a deal with Davy to bring back 99 souls and keeping Will's soul too - but Jack does alter over time...and in the end he finds redemption...because he does decide to come back, deliver the longboat so the crew can escape and he decides to face the Kracken like a hero, brave and heroic....

So, Jack does emerge as the hero...he may appear to be an anti-hero, but he is not....not really. Cuz we all know that deep down jack is a good man, so does Liz, and all of his actions are to keep his enemies guessing...he doesn't want anyone to know what he is truly all about...the only person who does..is Liz...not even Gibbs knows the real Jack Sparrow. He purposely appears as the Anti-hero in some instances...like dealing with Davy...but he is running scared for his life until the end....I'm talking in circle now...but does this make sense?

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
That's what I mean...they are almost anti_jack over there...yet they have pics of Jack all over their postings...I just don't get it. Why would the official website for the MOVIES let all these people post all these negative comments about their money man - Captain Jack Sparrow. Jack is meant to be the hero of this trilogy...not Will....the writers originally wanted the story to focus on Will ...but when they saw Jack's portrayal of Sparrow and the audiences' react and love for him..they changed their minds...that's why DMC is all about Jack..and what Jack wants...and Jack's adventures....not Will and Liz...the only reason Will and LIz end up in the adventure...is because of Jack, otherwise they would be happily married in Port Royal...living their boring life....why does Will end up on the Flying Dutchman and is reunited with his Father...because of JACK...why is Elizabeth having the adventure of a lifetime...because of JACK...what is the major plot...JACK HAS A DEBT TO PAY...TO DAVY JONES...AND HE IS IN A RACE AGAINST TIME TO SAVE HIS LIFE AND OTHERS...CUZ IF HE CAN CONTROL DAVY AND THE SEA..THEN JACK CAN RID THE WORLD OF THE HORRIBLE BEASTIE..THE KRACKEN..THUS SAVING HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF OTHER INNOCENT SAILORS LIVES....So, again...I wonder why the KTTC people are so anti-Jack and so pro-Will...I just don't get it...I'm serious ...sorry Kate and Sailorleo and Diddly and all the others that like Will....I think if AWE came out and Will only had a cameo appearance....the movie would still be a HUGE success...but if Jack only has a cameo appearance...then well, look for AWE to not even pass the 500,000 dollar mark.

Okay so after reading the definition maybe Jack does somewhat fit that definition...but in no way does Disney intend for it to stay that way..or else they would have had him keep rowing toward land, abandoning his crew and ship....instead he goes back....they showed that when face with the ultimate decision he chose to do the right thing...and face his fears....and I appologize for my insensitivity about Will and his importance to the story..I just get frustrated when people over at KTTC see Will as the more important character and the bigger hero than Jack...but that's just me I guess....I'm sorry.

Thus, anti-heroes can be awkward, antisocial, alienated, cruel, obnoxious, passive, pitiful, obtuse, or just ordinary.

Now this part of the definition does not describe JACK...Jack is not antisocial or cruel...or passive or pitiful and he is definitely not ordinary....anything but....Jack is charismatic and charming and roguish...he is brave and strong in his own way. Sure he is scared of the Kracken..but who wouldn't be. And everyone is afraid to face death...Jack is just being Human. He is afraid to face death. He wants to live. He wants his freedom. Does that make him a bad person, no. And did he go searching for Will and Elizabeth to drag them along in his adventures...no they came and found him. Of course it was because they faced the hangman's noose for helping him to escape...still not sure of Jack's criminal history that would merit Norrington wanting to hang him...just because he is a pirate. Has he ever killed anyone in cold-blood...just to kill someone...doubt it...and what has he stolen? Whatever he stole...he did it to help the less fortunate people...like the ones crying at the end of DMC leading to Tia's hut "the freed slaves" that Jack refused to transport for the EITC....randomly typing again...don't know where this is going...

If he was that then millions upon millions of people wouldnt love him

he's more like the bad boy with a heart

Jack was kinda like that in movie 1 but by the end? No he wasnt..and at the start of movie 2 which is a new story..he's basically the same again lol and by the end? NOP..he's friggin hero meaning he's not the..they are usually like that to start with because they are such lonly people..and they are usually quite hurt..sometimes the anti hero is just that and he stays that..but in other stories..they can turn out to be rather heroic like hans solo..and Jack appears to be doing so too.

and you know what lovethemtigers.you are right..Jack never would kill someone in cold blood..which is why IMO the only reason he killed Barbossa was because he was about to shoot Liz..I bet he would have never done it had she not been in danger..its not in his heart to do stuff like that.

god liz needs to wake up to this man already!..I think she has actually by th eend of movie 2..she realizes this man goes the lenghts for her without worrying about the result of his actions.. he changes for her..when its about saving people like Will its all negotaions and Jack has himself at top prioruty..the seconnd liz is in danger? Its bravery..He'll do things that he would never usually do in desperate moments all to make sure that she is safe..never saw Will there when she was about to die at the hands of Barbossa..never saw Will there when she nearly drowned..never saw Will there when that guy was about to smack her over the head..never saw Will there when she got out of prison...

who is kttc?

its a forum for PotC

Originally posted by hazel1
who is kttc?

It's the official website/fansite for Pirates of the Caribbean and it's called www.keeptothecode.com......

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:50 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was something that was typed in response to my postings on KTTC about how the movie is centered around jack sparrow and johnny depp as the money man for the movie...and that Jack is actually the hero...

This was typed by SueB from KTTC:
Actually, Terry (I believe) has already made his summer predicts for 2007 (apparently he does this every year). He predicts AWE at less than DMC simply because there will be so much fratracide from the other big blockbusters.

As to who is the "hero" in the movie, canon on this has been established by the writers (T&T. Sources: Wordplayer, multiple references, and COTBP commentary)

Jack is the Trickster AND the Star of the Movie
Elizabeth is the protagonist
Will is the hero

It is very traditional to have the Star, Protagonist, and Hero be the same person for most films. This is not the case for POTC. There is no doubt that the movie is driven by it's star (JD) but to belittle the roles of the other two is not necessary nor accurate. It is the unusual separation of Star, Protagonist, and Hero that drives some folks nuts. Perhaps this is why there is such a broad audience. This is not a Johnny Depp star vehicle. He's the star (and there would not have been any sequels without his truly superlative performance) but the movie is bigger than one person. Usually the big ones are.

I agree with you LOL they are all basically following those steps..but hero..LOL can be ANY kind of hero..even an anti hero..

Star: the central character
Protagonist: central hero
Hero: the central hero

and this time Jack is following those steps I dont care what anyone on KTTC says lol HE was the mentor type character in movie 1!...this time he is a hero in movie 2/3 (one story)..because there is a NEW MENTOR meaning the 12 steps started again and this time each charcter has the chance to follow them..thats why movie 2 was so much longer than movie 1..and this story is a 2 part story..meaning they have more time to give each character a chance to be a "hero"..and Will has ALREADY been one by the end of a story..he has such potential to be a pretty dark and bad hero (anti hero) by the end of this one..because JACk is already the main hero now..the noble one..well noble for Liz anyway lol

His journey is the most imporatant though I agree with you lovethemtigers..the other are doing it.but Liz is only really about finding Jack again and being with him IMO..so she fits as his elixir..and Will..well I dunno

Ha ...this is so funny....lets listen to what the writers, etc have to say about Johnny and his contributions to the movie....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl3J2fMKCMk

And another clue as to how we know Johnny/Jack is what the movies are all about...they've actually added him to the ride at Disneyland and Disneyworld...do we see Will and Elizabeth added...no...I guess I won't go back over there...those people are just so negative about Jack Sparrow I can hardly stand it....they won't Jack to stay just as he was at the beginning of movie 1....it's okay for Will and Liz to evolve...but they argue what is the point for Jack to evolve...gosh, I guess if it were up to them...they wouldn't even have Jack in the movie...it would just be all about Liz and Will...now that's what I call a blockbuster movie..NOT>

Jack is the Trickster AND the Star of the Movie
Elizabeth is the protagonist
Will is the hero

It is very traditional to have the Star, Protagonist, and Hero be the same person for most films. This is not the case for POTC. There is no doubt that the movie is driven by it's star (JD) but to belittle the roles of the other two is not necessary nor accurate. It is the unusual separation of Star, Protagonist, and Hero that drives some folks nuts. Perhaps this is why there is such a broad audience. This is not a Johnny Depp star vehicle. He's the star (and there would not have been any sequels without his truly superlative performance) but the movie is bigger than one person. Usually the big ones are.


I just don't see Will as the main hero by the end of Movie 2....and Jack is all three of these things by the end of movie 2...and I didn't belittle Will or Elizabeth..I just stated that Jack is the center..and without him they would have no story...and that's a fact, Jack.....I love Elizabeth in the movie..without her contributions to the film...Jack couldn't evolve....without Will...we wouldn't see where Elizabeth came from and where she is headed....they are the ones who belittle Johnny/jack and his contributions to the movie..to say that Orlando and Keira are as important to the success as Johnny..is just bizarre....yes, they contribute..but they are not on the same level..and they know that themselves...I've heard them say it in countless interviews....yes, Orlando and Keira are important to the movie. I get that. But they are in no way equal to Johnny and his contributions. That's all I was saying. Gosh, those people are just crazy. But who knows, I'm sure they think I'm crazy for saying that jack Sparrow is what makes the movie...I am so stupid. I guess I just dont get it.

they are totally seeing him as a threat! the Will/Liz lovers..they see Jack as a threat because he IS the main character..and the main character's elixir appears to be Elizabeth ..honestly I seriously believe that its her..everything points to it..I didn't see him "celebrate"(Jack's smirk/confidence) over gaining anything else after his supreme ordeal do you? He even went though:"Apotheosis" which comes with step 9 and actually means "rise to the rank of a god"..and what did we see during his supreme ordeal? That godlike shot..he even has a halo of light as if he is an angel sent down to protect her.

when did they add Jack onto the ride?

Liz/Will's stories are not all that important. Will's isn't..his has become a sub story really..although because Liz is now Jack's elixir he's going to become Jack's enemy..and who ever becomes jack's enemy people will dislike..and guess what.. Liz's elixir is obviously Jack because she got to stage 5 and accepted him as her elixir...and when she reaches stage 10?.whats going to be her consequence for gaining Jack?? Jack's enemies become her enemies..don't they?

"10) The Road Back. The hero must deal with the consequences of all that he/she has done in order to gain the reward. Often, the villain pursues the hero."

its all pointing towards Jack/Liz being the most preferred couple here..

as much as we all hate film critics, they do have some say in which movies make it and which dont.

both movies, they have torn up Orlando's performance as wooden, boring, blah, and completely meaningless and 1 dimensional.

they have consistently praised Johnny to the sky for his creation of Jack Sparrow, and point out (truthfully) they the movie would not have been a success with out him.

the critics seem keen on Jack and Liz... if only because they seem to hate Orlando so much, and they advocate the chemistry and comic genius operated between Keira and Johnny. The critics were A LOT nicer to Keira in movie 2--- they said she had gone from being just "a pretty face" to "an adventurous heroine we can actually cheer for"...

they say no such things about Will.

point being, critics are not all important, but their opinions are generally taken into consideration (considering they have the power to really sell films to audience goers) and so if they take the critics into account, they will give Jack the girl.

LOL so true ha!

BUT they could make his character interesting for once where he's not just all "Elizabeth i must save HA(the way orlie says it) Elizabeth waa!"

they have GIVEN him a new character arc..something darker and more interesting..

and Liz is now only interesting because of JACK..I was kinda sick with the whole "all I want is to find Will" the first time I watched it.. which i think was the intent..Its the fake thing all the characters appear to be typicaly after at the beginning of the movie..when thats NEVER how it happens..they never start off in the "special world"..they srat off in the "ordinary world"..Jack wasnt actually after the pearl in movie 1 at first..he wanted the interceptor

and just watch what happens if they pair Will with Jack..the critics will be like WTF? along with the majority of the audience...the audience dont like being given something HOT and then it ends with boring old puppy love.

yeah i think everyone, even us, would be shocked if they did end it liz/jack... and shocked like in a dilerious, too good to be true, hottest thing ever, but totally unexpected and mildly disturbing way. ya know? lol. the whole world would drop what they were doing and rush to see it. the critics would go nuts--- they would call it disney's greatest triumph and the most creative, unexpected but perfect thing ever. the movies would be legendary. all the liz/will fans would realize the joy they've been missing by trying to take jack out of the picture. i would declare a national holiday and dress like a pirate for two weeks.

Originally posted by katelovespirate
yeah i think everyone, even us, would be shocked if they did end it liz/jack... and shocked like in a dilerious, too good to be true, hottest thing ever, but totally unexpected and mildly disturbing way. ya know? lol. the whole world would drop what they were doing and rush to see it. the critics would go nuts--- they would call it disney's greatest triumph and the most creative, unexpected but perfect thing ever. the movies would be legendary. all the liz/will fans would realize the joy they've been missing by trying to take jack out of the picture. i would declare a national holiday and dress like a pirate for two weeks.

I love this Kate...so true...and it's it so True...the critics tore up poor old Orlando's performances as Will in movie 2..and wondered what his purpose was to the movie..and that Keira was like a breath of fresh air...and the interactions between Keira and Johnny were light, comical and a real joy to watch..soo.....maybe Disney will get the hint.

and yes..it would be delirious joy at the end of AWE...when Jack and Liz get together....I'll be like "Will who?" LOVE IT and yes, perhaps I will dress like a Pirate too....

{when did they add Jack onto the ride? }- by LovelyOne....

this past summer...have you not seen that clip...here it is....it's so cute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_K4iiCo0w

If only we all lived in the same place we could go see the movie together and leave yelling if it ended will/liz and cheering if it ended Jack/Liz..it would be the greatest memorable way to end PotC..honestly..when movie 1 ended..It was good..but I have to admit..I kinda forgot about it because Jack didn't end on anything spectacular

movie 2?? MY god I loved the Jack/Liz middle and ending..it just sticks in your mind..movie 1 didn't create THIS kind of Buzz people weren't obsessing over the ending of movie 1 (they totally would have if they left in the fact that LIZ taught him THAT song..and the peas in a pod scene)..movie 1 was a pleasant surprise as a movie..it was good but it didn't cause this level of obsession like Harry potter got or the first star wars got.. with this movie people wouldn't have been obsessing over it like they are had that kiss not happened I assure you...I only started to become interested in it when Liz stepped into Jack's life all of a sudden..I was getting quite bored of staring at Will with Jack cuz its 2 men..I want to see romance with the man character..and its mostly women who love this movie lol..I'm not kidding..the men like it now because all of a sudden there is SEX APPEAL with the Jack/Liz relationship..it was so sexually charged

if they want to end on a buzz, end it Will/Liz..just look at the fan base and praise its getting...you cant keep Jack a 1 dimensional character all the time..it was ok in movie 1 but it gets boring..and they feared that apparently when writing movie 2 and 3..I read t ina critics review.


and thanks for the link BTW

Disney announced this week that AWE will be released worldwide on the same day because of the BIG twist ending. If Jack/Liz wind up together is that a BIG twist ending or you tell me.

hmm it may not be cuz lots of people think Jack is going to end up with her I think..but then again no we dont..even all of us with our theories are not all that confident that they will

I think the twist is going to be something Jack chooses to do for Elizabeth...it will show you how much this man can love a woman IMO

Also will is TOTALLY going to hurt Liz BIG time in my opinion..possibly even stab her and murder her

Every time I say that NO one believes it can happen..well that would be one mother of a twist..and the way things are pointing..Will's destiny is not a heroic one..something is going to vex(anger) him over Elizabeth that even his DESTINY has something to do with it!!..How gloomy and scary was the music a Tia said that to him? It sends goosebumps down my spine when she says it and that gloomy/sinister music happens

all you have to do is look at where the 12 steps of a hero are affecting each character..Will is going to become Jack's enemy iand Liz's enemy/consequence when they both gain their elixir (EACHOTHER)..Jack has already gained his!! and Will saw it..and he is going to be Jack's enemy in movie 3..and by the end of it when Liz gains her elixir (Jack)..he's going to become hers IMO

now, pay no attention to this nonsense...but.....what if Jack were Evil? IMO I think that'd be a BIG twist...i mean..who'd see that coming...?

True....but we want to love JACK!....not hate him for turning on everyone! Like I get a feeling is going to happen with Will if the rumors are true of him teaming up with Davy to go against Jack in the 3rd installment! I wonder how Liz will cope with Will teaming up against Jack? How will she like that?

Originally posted by sailorleo
now, pay no attention to this nonsense...but.....what if Jack were Evil? IMO I think that'd be a BIG twist...i mean..who'd see that coming...?

doubt it..lol as if they would do that to the character everyone loves and basicaly only pays to see get what he wants..

it would be the biggest twist for Will..because everyone cant actually imagine him doing anything bad..he's always SO noble!!..people find it easy to imagine Jack bing bad and doing something on selfish impulse like that..but Will?? "never has" and IMO the beach scene where they all talk about the heart (which IMO resembles Liz) says it ALL!

The most noble man out of all of them is JACK in that scene..no one seems to notice how Will doesnt actually CARE how many people could die if the kraken remains on the loose once he stabs the heart..he's turning into a selfish b*stard who only wants to save his father and could give a crap about anyone elses lives but his own and his fathers..wow what a great man

HINT FRIGGING HINT

we've already seen Jack at his weakest and most dishonorable moment "where he flees and pretty much through out most of movie 2" in the story(and redeems) ..we've seen Liz's(and she will probably redeem) Now its Will's turn to show his weakest and most dishonorable moment on screen..and its been saved till the end for a reason..its going to be the most climactic one in the story it seems.

Ya it's been saved to the end because now he has motive to be dishonorable....HE'S GOING TO TEAM UP WITH A VILLIAN TO DO SOMETHING TO JACK....if he does i'll kill him!!! I dont know who said this in another THREAD but there is something SHADY about Will... "It's the Honest ones u can't TRUST"(or something like that)- JACK

wow, Jack+evil= equals even more ssexxi!!

jack is really in neither good side nor bad IMO. hes just jack but a good pirate

i think the big twist will be since everybody is like "well its disney it has to be will/liz" then BOOM jack.liz ha!! one of the biggenst twists would probably be jack sacrifing something to save liz, like immortality his pearl something that u know is jack..and he'll sacrifice it for elizabeth.

I may still have some doubts about the ending (though I don' t want them->IT MUST BE J&E!) but I don' t think they can shove THE BIG KISS
aside like nothing happened. "Once you tasted it, there is no going back."


And even if you don' t listen to al these rumors (I mean of Disney), if you think logically: the third installment is the continuation of the second
and the climax has clearly been set up!!

(Don' t pay attention to my faults!...I would better express myself
in French)

ooo! u speak french?? ok, tell me what Johnny is saying here cuz that frealin french guy is talking over Johnny! plzzee!! if u don wanna, i understand, but i really wanna no! just give me the gist of it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUt4QBMgpHo

ELIZABETH CANNOT CHANGE INTO THE 'GIRLIE' SHE WAS AND I DOUBT WILL COULD FORGIVE HER THAT EASILY... AND I AM ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE KISS HERE... WHAT WHEN HE WILL KNOW SHE
"SENTENCED" JACK TO DEATH?

AND BY THE WAY WILL WAS LOOKING AFTER HER BETRAYAL I GUESS
IT WILL JUST GO WORSER WITH HIM.

I must though admit I was surprised when at the end of the 2, he was willing to help Elisabeth find Jack??? Or was it selfish?? So he could get
the Black Pearl to go rescue his father?

Yeah....maybe this is the beginning of the evil Will...he's witnessed the kiss...he's agonizing over it as he drives the knife into the table...then he gets an idea...he can use Elizabeth and Jack's feelings against each other...and get the Pearl....and LovelyOne is right...we have already seen Jack and Liz and Norrie at their weakest moments....but what of Will...we've yet to witness his weakness and how evil he can really be...and Mythe..that is so true..."it's the honest one's you can't trust"...cuz sometimes...have you ever heard the old saying "too good too be true" maybe that's Will..he's too good to be true..too HONEST to be trusted...him teaming up with Beckett, Davy to bring Jack down...now that's just plain naughty...he is definitely going to betray Jack in movie 3...the twist ending...will be Will turning as evil as evil can get, Jack and Elizabeth admitting their love....because although we all secretly hope for the J/E ending...I will still be hysterically surprised if it happens...cuz if you listen to all the interviews and hints and the KTTC people...it's all W/E....gosh, it would be so much fun in late May and go over to KTTC and say "na-na-na-boo-boo told ya soo....." and get the last laugh...that would just make my whole year....summer...everything.

I would be disgusted with Disney if they made it where Jack lost the girl and tore his heart out or Killed Liz..and I think many other people would too

its so not going to happen...they haven't set up this scary destiny of Will just for fun..it means something

I'm sorry but they could kill Will off and no one would care if it made Jack's ending the happiest..then that would please the mass audience..but if they got rid of Jack so Will could be happy??...I would think I was on mars or something..

I'm sorry but thats a hilarious thought..making Jack evil or unhappy..or heartbroken right at the end..thats bull shit I'm sorry..a bittersweet ending for Jack where he loses the girl but gains something else is NOT a good bittersweet ending..

the ony one who they can do that is William because he's the friggin support actor and they cant do it with Keira because she is the leading lady

Originally posted by LovelyOne
I would be disgusted with Disney if they made it where Jack lost the girl and tore his heart out or Killed Liz..and I think many other people would too

its so not going to happen...they haven't set up this scary destiny of Will just for fun..it means something

I'm sorry but they could kill Will off and no one would care if it made Jack's ending the happiest..then that would please the mass audience..but if they got rid of Jack so Will could be happy??...I would think I was on mars or something..

I'm sorry but thats a hilarious thought..making Jack evil or unhappy..or heartbroken right at the end..thats bull shit I'm sorry..a bittersweet ending for Jack where he loses the girl but gains something else is NOT a good bittersweet ending..

the ony one who they can do that is William because he's the friggin support actor and they cant do it with Keira because she is the leading lady

Right who wants Jack to be evil..that would be horrible...no way Disney would do this....why are you writing this lovelyone..is this in response to what Sailorleo wrote earlier

yeah it kinda was..these people who seem to think "Will is the most imporatant character in the movie". Or that "he is really imporatant to the movie being successful in the long run"..and that "he is just as important as Jack to the main audience and success of the movie" ....I'd say "sure if this was backwards land"

..and it was also me just bumbling out loud

no way they make Jack bad... no way. remember, Johnny keeps saying he is up for doing more movies. THIS MEANS that however these end, it leaves it open enough that Jack Sparrow can have lots more adventures... meaning, he wont be tied down to a place, he won't change too much... he will still be the loveable Capn Jack Sparrow.

however, I will state with confidence they are NOT going to kill off Will, or even end him up in a bad spot. He will go through stuff, but trust me, they will redeem him at the end somehow.

i know they wont..but no one would really care if they did lol

Originally posted by LovelyOne
i know they wont..but no one would really care if they did lol

hahaha oh gee... actually, i think I would care. Because if Liz and Jack are meant to be, I want it to work out because they find a way for it to work out, not because Will dies and leaves them conveniently free. Anything worth having is going to cost a lot... so it will be that much more magical and perfect if Liz and Jack have to overcome way more stuff to be together.

i think thats the theory they were operating on when they first started thinking about complicating the relationship between Will and Liz... they meant to pu their love to the ultimate test, and i hope they realized that the love between Will and Liz (at least the way it is shown and comes across in the films) is in NO WAY strong enough to withstand Captain Jack Sparrow...

lol im kidding I would care..but I just see him as the thing they had to add in with movie 1 cuz Jack was a risk..now he has no real purpose..

according to himself on some tv interview he does.

why are actors so dumb? why do they give away endings? why dont we kill Orlando before they finish filming so they HAVE to re-write it the ending we want???

I also posted this message on the thread for Stressed out people over Jack and Liz.....

Here is part of that comment Ted posted on KTTC about the compass:

And, as long as I'm breaking silence on the compass, let me just say: there's no transference. If it points to a waffle, it's not pointing to the waffle because you're hungry or because you really want to be Belgian or something; it points to the waffle 'cause what you want most is that waffle.


Isn't this interesting...
cuz people on KTTC continue to argue that the compass points to Jack because Elizabeth wants to be a Pirate and live a Pirate lifestyle...
but according to this..the compass doesn't work that way...
it doesn't point at the waffle because you are hungry or you want to be Belgian it's because you want the waffle most.....

so translated...

the compass doesn't point to Jack cuz she's is hungry for love or wants to be a Pirate,
it points to Jack because she wants JACK>>>>
OMG how can KTTC people ignore this comment by Ted...
it is so obvious...can't believe I didn't really pick up on that before..
you may have already Lovelyone and I overlooked the post...
but I am floored by this.