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Who wins?

Originally posted by Thinkerer
Who wins? Jane has all the advantages here. This is a stomp.

She-Hulk. Jane isn't doing anything against somebody who can break the 4th wall.

The 4th wall stuff is pis and banned from this fight.

How strong was Jane? Wasn't really made clear. She really didn't seem to be as strong as Thor, so still not sure how that enchantment works in the MCU.

But She-Hulk was clearly a lot weaker than Smart Hulk, so I doubt she's stronger than Jane. But then Jane has all the other Thor abilities to make this a stomp (outside of 4th wall breaking of course).

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor" There's no reason to assume she didn't get Thor's full strength. Steve certainly had Thor's strength when he wielded Mjolnir, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to rock Thanos like he did.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
How strong was Jane? Wasn't really made clear. She really didn't seem to be as strong as Thor, so still not sure how that enchantment works in the MCU.

But She-Hulk was clearly a lot weaker than Smart Hulk, so I doubt she's stronger than Jane. But then Jane has all the other Thor abilities to make this a stomp (outside of 4th wall breaking of course).

Stated she's as powerful

Shown she doesn't have his highest end feats

Also, most importantly, remember how hot and sexy she looked in the armor and blonde hair.

Originally posted by Psychotron
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor" There's no reason to assume she didn't get Thor's full strength. Steve certainly had Thor's strength when he wielded Mjolnir, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to rock Thanos like he did.


Could be proportionate strength. Physique based. Which would explain why Fat Thor needed to get back in shape.

But She really didnt seem like Thors equal tbh. Steve clearly couldnt fly, might have needed practice for that though. Ragnarok shows there is a learning curve that goes with the powers. And Thor 1 showed Thor is a top level brawler even as a human.


Originally posted by Robtard

Also, most importantly, remember how hot and sexy she looked in the armor and blonde hair.

Hmm think I need to rewatch.

IMO, less of a learning curve and more the abilities are made to fit the given scene. As we then later learn in Ragnarok that Thor never really needed the hammer, the power was always within or something. He's also Asguardian and not human, so maybe there's something to that, even though Jane had what appeared to be a full set of Thor-powers.

https://i.imgur.com/LAQoNUp.gif

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Could be proportionate strength. Physique based. Which would explain why Fat Thor needed to get back in shape.

But She really didnt seem like Thors equal tbh. Steve clearly couldnt fly, might have needed practice for that though. Ragnarok shows there is a learning curve that goes with the powers. And Thor 1 showed Thor is a top level brawler even as a human.


I think that's a huge ass-pull. It's never been a thing in the comics, nor is it implied in the movies. Like you said, she simply lacked his skill and experience.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Could be proportionate strength. Physique based. Which would explain why Fat Thor needed to get back in shape.

But She really didnt seem like Thors equal tbh. Steve clearly couldnt fly, might have needed practice for that though. Ragnarok shows there is a learning curve that goes with the powers. And Thor 1 showed Thor is a top level brawler even as a human.




Hmm think I need to rewatch.

Did Steve ever try letting the hammer pull him off?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did Steve ever try letting the hammer pull him off?

Yeah, when he hit Thanos.

It's ridiculous to think he just never wanted or needed to fly in that entire end battle. He clearly just didn't have time to practice doing that.


Originally posted by Psychotron
I think that's a huge ass-pull. It's never been a thing in the comics, nor is it implied in the movies. Like you said, she simply lacked his skill and experience.


Look at the MCU Rulk to see this clearly isn't the comics. Heck Hulk doesn't even have regen powers.

Jane never once displayed strength on Thor's level.

Btw Do you believe Fat Thor was just as strong as Ripped Thor?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Look at the MCU Rulk to see this clearly isn't the comics. Heck Hulk doesn't even have regen powers.

Jane never once displayed strength on Thor's level.

Btw Do you believe Fat Thor was just as strong as Ripped Thor?

It's not the comics, but nothing in the movies contradicts it. Steve's performance against Thanos supports it.

Fat Thor and Ripped Thor both got their shit pushed in by Thanos, so who knows. Getting fat doesn't make you lose muscle mass in real life. It usually has the opposite effect, that's why strongmen are usually obese.

Originally posted by Psychotron
It's not the comics, but nothing in the movies contradicts it. Steve's performance against Thanos supports it.

Fat Thor and Ripped Thor both got their shit pushed in by Thanos, so who knows. Getting fat doesn't make you lose muscle mass in real life. It usually has the opposite effect, that's why strongmen are usually obese.


Not contradicting it is not proof.

We hardly saw Ripped Thor go toe to toe with Thanos.

Strongmen still work out. Fat Thor clearly wasnt working out. He was at the beginning of Thor4. If I stop working out and just eat, I will gain size from fat but lose muscle. Thats just basic.

It only makes sense that if Thor works out to lose fat then be works out to increase muscle as well.

I just dont feel like its been well explained in the films. An arm wrestle between Jane and Thor would have cleared it up. But I saw nothing in Thor4 to suggest they were both equally as strong. By your suggestion each of those kids at the end were just as strong as Thor as well.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Not contradicting it is not proof.

We hardly saw Ripped Thor go toe to toe with Thanos.

Strongmen still work out. Fat Thor clearly wasnt working out. He was at the beginning of Thor4. If I stop working out and just eat, I will gain size from fat but lose muscle. Thats just basic.

It only makes sense that if Thor works out to lose fat then be works out to increase muscle as well.

I just dont feel like its been well explained in the films. An arm wrestle between Jane and Thor would have cleared it up. But I saw nothing in Thor4 to suggest they were both equally as strong. By your suggestion each of those kids at the end were just as strong as Thor as well.

The proof is the inscription on the hammer and the fact that Steve and Jane both received Thor's powers while wielding Mjolnir. The inscription doesn't say "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be male, shall possess the power of Thor".

Thanos no sold Ripped Thor's one attack on him at the start of the movie. He didn't look any stronger than his fatass self.

The problem is that it means Thor's strength comes from working out, not from his Asgardian nature. Thor was just as jacked when Odin took away his powers and made him mortal, so it's clear that his strength isn't tied to his physique. Making Thor fat was more about showing the audience that he's depressed and broken.

Originally posted by Psychotron


Thanos no sold Ripped Thor's one attack on him at the start of the movie. He didn't look any stronger than his fatass self

Thor had already been beaten and had the Power Stone pressed against his skull for some.time, an was barely standing up, as evidenced by him struggling to stay on his feer after hitting Thanos. He didn't use his lightning mode.lt anything..You telling me that's full strength, I've got a bridge in Atlantis to sell you.

I mean, if we want to get technical about it (which we shouldn't, because marvel didn't give AF).....

When Thor was stripped of his godly powers in Thor 1, he was human-level. Skilled, which is why Coulson was jizzing over him, but not superstrong. Once he had the hammer, he was Godly-Thor level.

Conversely, without the hammer, with just the SSS, Cap was taking it to Loki, and to a lesser extent, Thor when they first met.

By this powerscaling, when Steve gets Mjolnir, the power of Thor stacked on top of the SSS should mean MjolnirSteve should be far above what Thor can do.

And conversely (again), Jane, a sickly cancer lady, should be far below.

I don't think it quite works out like that.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Conversely, without the hammer, with just the SSS, Cap was taking it to Loki, and to a lesser extent, Thor when they first met.


Ummm, Loki was beating the crap out of him and could easily have killed him if it wasn't for Iron Man and the fact he wanted to be caught.

It is beyond a reasonable doubt that the writer intended for Jane to resemble her comic counterpart, possessing Thor's physical strength and abilities. Arguing that she was powerless is completely asinine.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Thor had already been beaten and had the Power Stone pressed against his skull for some.time, an was barely standing up, as evidenced by him struggling to stay on his feer after hitting Thanos. He didn't use his lightning mode.lt anything..You telling me that's full strength, I've got a bridge in Atlantis to sell you.

Lightning is irrelevant here, we're talking about physical strength. Based on the struggles with Stormbreaker Fat Thor and Thanos had in Endgame, Thanos is only a moderately stronger than Fat Thor. If Ripped Thor is so much stronger than his fat self, then he must be as strong as Thanos or stronger, which is obviously not true.

Originally posted by tkitna
Ummm, Loki was beating the crap out of him and could easily have killed him if it wasn't for Iron Man and the fact he wanted to be caught.

He was still fighting Loki, moving him with the force of his punches, dodging some hits - I didn't say he was winning or anything like that.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11140/111409057/7543374-0126290470-2aa3d.gif

You see my point, all the same. We can replace Loki with.....the helicopter that Cap held down, or Thanos:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/11135/111350702/6643503-8404996497-Scree.png

Now scale that level of SSS strength, PLUS Mjolnir-amp.I don't think it's an Eddie-Brock/Venom type situation, where Mjolnir stacks on top of the base user,

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He was still fighting Loki, moving him with the force of his punches, dodging some hits - I didn't say he was winning or anything like that.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11140/111409057/7543374-0126290470-2aa3d.gif

You see my point, all the same. We can replace Loki with.....the helicopter that Cap held down, or Thanos:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/scale_super/11135/111350702/6643503-8404996497-Scree.png

Now scale that level of SSS strength, PLUS Mjolnir-amp.I don't think it's an Eddie-Brock/Venom type situation, where Mjolnir stacks on top of the base user,

That kick was the only time he even acknowledged Cap. He also took a punch to the side and face with no response at all plus a shield hit that had no affect.

Here nor there. I'm not debating your point. I'm just pointing out that Loki was a better fighter (at that point anyways) and I would assume Thor and Thanos would be too.

Originally posted by tkitna
That kick was the only time he even acknowledged Cap. He also took a punch to the side and face with no response at all plus a shield hit that had no affect.

Here nor there. I'm not debating your point. I'm just pointing out that Loki was a better fighter (at that point anyways) and I would assume Thor and Thanos would be too.

Yeah - my point was that Mjolnir doesn't just stack on top of your base stats, or takes your base stats and amps them.

In short, Jane should be at the same level as Thor. Even though their human base levels are very different.

Originally posted by Psychotron
The proof is the inscription on the hammer and the fact that Steve and Jane both received Thor's powers while wielding Mjolnir. The inscription doesn't say "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be male, shall possess the power of Thor".

That's what's implied. It's not proof. Like I said proof would have been Jane Thor and Thor Odinson being equal in an arm wrestle.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Thanos no sold Ripped Thor's one attack on him at the start of the movie. He didn't look any stronger than his fatass self.

Oh come on. He had already been beaten down before that. And beaten on badly.

Originally posted by Psychotron
The problem is that it means Thor's strength comes from working out, not from his Asgardian nature. Thor was just as jacked when Odin took away his powers and made him mortal, so it's clear that his strength isn't tied to his physique. Making Thor fat was more about showing the audience that he's depressed and broken.


So again, do you think all of those kids at the end of Thor4 were each one of them equally as strong as Thor?

It doesn't matter about being depressed and broken. Fact is he got back into shape by working out again. His mum even told him to eat a salad! Ergo his physique (and hence physical stats) work like a human, just obviously on a completely different level.

There's that and it's also clear that Thor's powers can be amped by focus and experience/learning using them.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean, if we want to get technical about it (which we shouldn't, because marvel didn't give AF).....


That's true. I think through multiple directors handling the character, it's not been kept consistent, and they probably couldn't explain it themselves.



Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Conversely, without the hammer, with just the SSS, Cap was taking it to Loki, and to a lesser extent, Thor when they first met.




Nah, Loki wasted him.

Originally posted by Darth Thor

Nah, Loki wasted him.

Missed the point. OK, we can have Thanos with the stones, pushing Cap. Or Cap holding the helicopter. Any of his feats where he is above human levels.

Do you get the reason why I brought Loki up? Cap was still able to dodge his blows, still able to rock him with his blows.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That's what's implied. It's not proof. Like I said proof would have been Jane Thor and Thor Odinson being equal in an arm wrestle.



Oh come on. He had already been beaten down before that. And beaten on badly.




So again, do you think all of those kids at the end of Thor4 were each one of them equally as strong as Thor?

It doesn't matter about being depressed and broken. Fact is he got back into shape by working out again. His mum even told him to eat a salad! Ergo his physique (and hence physical stats) work like a human, just obviously on a completely different level.

There's that and it's also clear that Thor's powers can be amped by focus and experience/learning using them.


It's not implied, it's directly stated by Odin. If you're worthy, you get Thor's power, not Thor's proportionate power or whatever.

Beaten by whom? The jobbers that Thanos brought along or Thanos himself?

I barely remember that shitty movie, but I don't think the kids did anything physical.

He lost weight by working out, but that has nothing to do with his strength. His strength is magical, it's not tied to his physique, otherwise unworthy Thor wouldn't have only human strength. As I said in another reply, Fat Thor was only a bit weaker than Thanos when they were pushing Stormbreaker. If Ripped Thor is stronger than Fat Thor by any significant margin, then Ripped Thor must be close to Thanos's strength level or even stronger.

Originally posted by Psychotron
It's not implied, it's directly stated by Odin. If you're worthy, you get Thor's power, not Thor's proportionate power or whatever.


Well that's clearly wrong because post Ragnarok Thor was more powerful than pre-Ragnarok.



Originally posted by Psychotron
I barely remember that shitty movie, but I don't think the kids did anything physical.


Did they each have the same strength as Thor or not? It was the same spell Odin used except without the worthiness and for a limited time.


Originally posted by Psychotron
He lost weight by working out, but that has nothing to do with his strength. His strength is magical, it's not tied to his physique, otherwise unworthy Thor wouldn't have only human strength. As I said in another reply, Fat Thor was only a bit weaker than Thanos when they were pushing Stormbreaker. If Ripped Thor is stronger than Fat Thor by any significant margin, then Ripped Thor must be close to Thanos's strength level or even stronger.


Your conflicting two different things here. Firstly Thor has superhuman physiology as do all Asgardians. That doesn't mean he can't work out with his superhuman physiology. We literally see him work out. If he can lose fat and put on muscle, then that would clearly impact how strong and athletic he is.

As a human his powers were taken. But of course he could still get fat or weak, or shredded and strong (as a human), because he was one.

I mean Thor was a kid at one point. You claiming his strength never increased as he grew up, because his strength is magical and set in stone? That's absurd.

So are we saying Cap with Mjolnir was >>>>Thor with Mjolnir, as Cap is way stronger than any powerless human (which was who Thor was)?

Few things guys:

-Loki was holding back when Cap attacked him. He wanted to be captured in order to get them all together with Banner and the mindstone, so Hulk would take them out. "Oh no, you brought the monster.". *evil smile*

-Most any Asgardian adult is stronger and more durable than Cap. In the TV show a middle-aged Asgardian nigh midget casually ripped jail cell hinges and bent a tactical steel knife in the palm of his hand

-Thor's powers and how they relate to Mjolnir have been all over the place since Odin made that comment in Thor 2011. They vary in accordance to plot

-Cap holding Thanos back is an outlier, makes more sense that Thanos was impressed with Cap's resolve and not his strength, why he paused for a moment and spared Cap with a light punch. Thanos is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap's strength

Yes but the point being Cap>human Thor>>>>>cancer Jane.

And Mjolnir DIDN'T make Cap Super Thor.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well that's clearly wrong because post Ragnarok Thor was more powerful than pre-Ragnarok.






Did they each have the same strength as Thor or not? It was the same spell Odin used except without the worthiness and for a limited time.





Your conflicting two different things here. Firstly Thor has superhuman physiology as do all Asgardians. That doesn't mean he can't work out with his superhuman physiology. We literally see him work out. If he can lose fat and put on muscle, then that would clearly impact how strong and athletic he is.

As a human his powers were taken. But of course he could still get fat or weak, or shredded and strong (as a human), because he was one.

I mean Thor was a kid at one point. You claiming his strength never increased as he grew up, because his strength is magical and set in stone? That's absurd.

No, he wasn't. Ragnarok Thor learned how to focus his lightning powers without Mjolnir. His physical strength didn't increase.

I guess? Who cares? It was a retarded asspull of a scene.

I can't believe we're even discussing that comedy montage. Taika Cohen and the Russos have done so much damage to the character. The idea that carrying an extra 30-40lbs is going to impact the athleticism of a man who can produce enough force move planetary-sized structures is absolutely retarded.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So are we saying Cap with Mjolnir was >>>>Thor with Mjolnir, as Cap is way stronger than any powerless human (which was who Thor was)?


Unlikely.

Either their strength (with the power of Thor) is proportional to their size (Jane Thor would still be physically inferior to both Thor and Mjolnir Cap), or it's what Robtard thinks, that Thor is still stronger than any random who lifts Mjolnir due to being an Asgardian.

The first would make sense in that child Thor is weaker than adult Thor, and that adult Thor's physicality can still effect his strength and athleticism somewhat.
The latter might not make sense due to Thor becoming human in Thor 1 after having his powers removed, however like Robtard and you also pointed out, Marvel have not been consistent with this and not made clear how strong/powerful any random with the power of Thor is.

Taking the words of the enchantment completely literally is not only not definitive proof, but also doesn't make sense due to how Thor himself clearly has a peak and clearly has less powerful/strong incarnations.

I think its neither proportional to size, nor heritage.

It's the power of Thor. Within that, there is a range, but just like all humans are human level (by definition), despite there being a clear range (Usain Bolt vs a random kid), human-level (i.e. Thor level) is still above, say, She-Hulk.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes but the point being Cap>human Thor>>>>>cancer Jane.

And Mjolnir DIDN'T make Cap Super Thor.


Yeah, I would err on the side that the "Thor powers" Mjolnir bestows is linear, regardless of the receiver.

But again, the powers seem to more depend on what the plot demands and the writer feels.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think its neither proportional to size, nor heritage.

It's the power of Thor. Within that, there is a range, but just like all humans are human level (by definition), despite there being a clear range (Usain Bolt vs a random kid), human-level (i.e. Thor level) is still above, say, She-Hulk.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, I would err on the side that the "Thor powers" Mjolnir bestows is linear, regardless of the receiver.

But again, the powers seem to more depend on what the plot demands and the writer feels.

This. Thor isn't a race. There's no strength range like there is in humans where Natalie Portman can bench press 65lbs and Hemsworth can bench bench press 315 or whatever but they're both "human level".