Quasar With the UN vs. Reed Richards with the UN

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



nvrbeenwthagirl
Based upon on Panel Feats, who wielded the Un better? Who by on panel showings, would win if they were to attack each other at the exact same moment.

Keep in mind that Wonder Woman wielding the Godwave is much different than Ares wielding the same Godwave, is much different than Cronos wielding the very same Godwave. So saying that they are the same is not acceptible.

Now debate.

Priest
If both reed and quasar was wielding the UN against the same opponent we can compare feats imo.
The IG and Abarax are completely different targets.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Priest
If both reed and quasar was wielding the UN against the same opponent we can compare feats imo.
The IG and Abarax are completely different targets.

thumb up

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Priest
If both reed and quasar was wielding the UN against the same opponent we can compare feats imo.
The IG and Abarax are completely different targets.

My Point exactly. Which is why one can't say that the IG can stop The UN when being used in a multiversal realigning fashion. Two differnt targets. Now debate.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Based upon on Panel Feats, who wielded the Un better? Who by on panel showings, would win if they were to attack each other at the exact same moment. When those two used the UN, they were using it in completely different ways, trying to accomplish completely different tasks.


Quasar didn't want to destroy even a single Universe, just eliminate Magus..

Whereas Reed was actually trying to reset to Multiverse.




So basically, we can't use those feats to say that the UN was weaker when Quasar used it, then it was when Reed used it . smile

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
When those two used the UN, they were using it in completely different ways, trying to accomplish completely different tasks.


Quasar didn't want to destroy even a single Universe, just eliminate Magus..

Whereas Reed was actually trying to reset to Multiverse.




So basically, we can't use those feats to say that the UN was weaker when Quasar used it, then it was when Reed used it . smile

Then surely we can say that when Wonder Woman uses the Godwave, she could in fact beat MJJ since Cronos using the Godwave surely beat up everone in heaven.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Galan007
When those two used the UN, they were using it in completely different ways, trying to accomplish completely different tasks.


Quasar didn't want to destroy even a single Universe, just eliminate Magus..

Whereas Reed was actually trying to reset to Multiverse.




So basically, we can't use those feats to say that the UN was weaker when Quasar used it, then it was when Reed used it . smile

thumb up

Simple, effective wisdom.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
thumb up

Simple, effective wisdom.

Not really. I"m actually picking your UN<IG argument apart by showing a direct comparison. Unless you concede that WW using the God wave she is indeed superior To MJJ since the same Godwave wielded by Cronos defeated everyone in heaven.

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Not really. I"m actually picking your UN<IG argument apart by showing a direct comparison. Unless you concede that WW using the God wave she is indeed superior To MJJ since the same Godwave wielded by Cronos defeated everyone in heaven.

I don't need to debate this:
Originally posted by Galan007
When those two used the UN, they were using it in completely different ways, trying to accomplish completely different tasks.


Quasar didn't want to destroy even a single Universe, just eliminate Magus..

Whereas Reed was actually trying to reset to Multiverse.




So basically, we can't use those feats to say that the UN was weaker when Quasar used it, then it was when Reed used it . smile

That says it all.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't need to debate this:


That says it all.

What ever you say. Basically you can't. Unless you concede the even tho Wonder WOman on panel has NEVER used the GODWAVE as effective as Ares or Cronos, she should be able to beat the crap out of pretty much anyone becuz after all, it's the same Godwave.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What ever you say. Basically you can't. Unless you concede the even tho Wonder WOman on panel has NEVER used the GODWAVE as effective as Ares or Cronos, she should be able to beat the crap out of pretty much anyone becuz after all, it's the same Godwave. Listen...

IF Quasar would have tried, and failed to reset the Multiverse as Reed did..... THEN you could say the UN was weaker during the IG series, then it is today.


But you're trying to use two completely different UN uses, as a basis for some kind of recent UN power-up.



That's just flawed logic imo. erm

starlock
"Based upon on Panel Feats, who wielded the Un better? Who by on panel showings, would win if they were to attack each other at the exact same moment"

Reed/Reed

On panel quasar was sweating and nervous,he tried despertly to find any info he could on the UN,i would say reed-both cases

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by starlock
"Based upon on Panel Feats, who wielded the Un better? Who by on panel showings, would win if they were to attack each other at the exact same moment"

Reed/Reed

On panel quasar was sweating and nervous,he tried despertly to find any info he could on the UN,i would say reed-both cases

Exactly. Thus proving that Reed Wielding the UN against someone wielding and incomplete IG would have compeletely different results.

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Exactly. Thus proving that Reed Wielding the UN against someone wielding and incomplete IG would have compeletely different results.

"thus proving?"

dontgetit

I haven't seen anything proven.

Again, this post says it all:
Originally posted by Galan007
When those two used the UN,

they were using it in completely different ways,

trying to accomplish completely different tasks.


Quasar didn't want to destroy even a single Universe, just eliminate Magus..

Whereas Reed was actually trying to reset to Multiverse.




So basically,

we can't use those feats to say that the UN was weaker when Quasar used it,

then it was when Reed used it . smile

Mr Master
I like this one too:
Originally posted by Galan007
Listen...

IF Quasar would have tried, and failed to reset the Multiverse as Reed did.....

THEN you could say the UN was weaker during the IG series, then it is today.


But you're trying to use two completely different UN uses,

as a basis for some kind of recent UN power-up.



That's just flawed logic imo. erm

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
Listen...

IF Quasar would have tried, and failed to reset the Multiverse as Reed did..... THEN you could say the UN was weaker during the IG series, then it is today.


But you're trying to use two completely different UN uses, as a basis for some kind of recent UN power-up.



That's just flawed logic imo. erm

Actually You are using someone elses flawed logic to try and back up the fact that they DID indeed use the UN for different uses and thus differnt power lvls. You CANNOT EVER say that the IG is more powerful than the UN being used by Reed to set the multiverse when there is absolutely concretely NO evidence to suggest this. Has the IG ever been used on Multiple realities at once? And I"m not talking about the magus envisioning thus. I'm talking about realities created by the MultiEternity and thus taken over by an IG wielder. No. Has an ig wielder ever EVER shown power of the multieternity or a multiversal being? Nope. Not ever.

Mr Master
Originally posted by starlock
On panel quasar was sweating and nervous,

Remember though,

Quasar was nervous because he didn't want to wipe out the Universe by mistake,

he only wanted to concentrate the UN on Magus:

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5366/igvsunoz6.th.jpg


Reed has been dealing with the UN since the UN's first appearance,

so Reed is more familiar with it.


But the UN is like the IG, it doesn't matter who wields it,

the power at your disposal is the same.

Originally posted by starlock
he tried despertly to find any info he could on the UN,

That was Quasar's first dealings with the UN.

Unfortunately he didn't get a history lesson like Reed did from Uatu about the UN.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
Remember though,

Quasar was nervous because he didn't want to wipe out the Universe by mistake,

he only wanted to concentrate the UN on Magus:

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5366/igvsunoz6.th.jpg

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2843/igvsun2pi1.th.jpg


Reed has been dealing with the UN since the UN's first appearance,

so Reed is more familiar with it.


But the UN is like the IG, it doesn't matter who wields it,

the power at you disposal is the same.



That was Quasar's first dealings with the UN.

Unfortunately he didn't get a history lesson like Reed did from Uatu about the UN.

UM WRONG!!! We have already seen that differnt users get differnt results. And quasar was scared he would wipe out the universe. REED wiped out the multiverse.

guy222
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
UM WRONG!!! We have already seen that differnt users get differnt results. And quasar was scared he would wipe out the universe. REED wiped out the multiverse.

I am not a fan of Reed, but he wins

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
UM WRONG!!! We have already seen that differnt users get differnt results.

Especially when they have Different Tasks to perform. confused

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And quasar was scared he would wipe out the universe.

Because he didn't need to or wanted to.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
REED wiped out the multiverse.

Because he had too.

Mr Master
Originally posted by guy222
I am not a fan of Reed, but he wins

IMO stalemate,

they're using the same weapon with the same capabilities.

stalemate.

Unless we consider Quasar's Quantum bands, granting him a quicker trigger finger.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
IMO stalemate,

they're using the same weapon with the same capabilities.

stalemate.

Unless we consider Quasar's Quantum bands, granting him a quicker trigger finger.

We are talking about ON PANEL showings. having the same capabilities is not the point. I can drive a porche ok. But a race car driver can drive the same care much better. Same capabilities. totally differnt results.

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Actually You are using someone elses flawed logic to try and back up the fact that they DID indeed use the UN for different uses and thus differnt power lvls.

No evidence whatsoever in any Bio or Comic book that states the UN comes in different power levels, the only thing we know is that the distance of Nullification can be tweaked,

other than that, the UN is as powerful now as it was the first time it was introduced.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You CANNOT EVER say that the IG is more powerful than the UN being used by Reed to set the multiverse when there is absolutely concretely NO evidence to suggest this.

Yes there is,

an Incomplete IG is above the UN energies:

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5366/igvsunoz6.th.jpg

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2843/igvsun2pi1.th.jpg

Magus controlled those energies and negated Quasar with them,

Absolute control..

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8928/igvsun3sw2.th.jpg
"With a Thought, I turn the Universe's most devastating weapon upon it's bearer"

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Has the IG ever been used on Multiple realities at once? And I"m not talking about the magus envisioning thus. I'm talking about realities created by the MultiEternity and thus taken over by an IG wielder. No.

Yes.

Magus Merged Two UniverseS in an instant with an Incomplete IG.

The LT said,

the IG if formed in Rune's Multiverse, could take down his and,

"perhaps Our Own Universe aswell"

The LT was speaking about Prime Multiverse that houses the 616 Universe,

the Multiverse he oversees primarily as Judge.



You want the Proof, just ask. smile

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Has an ig wielder ever EVER shown power of the multieternity or a multiversal being? Nope. Not ever.

Only the LT has been proven to be above the IG conclusively.

That's not a Multiversal being, that's an Omniversal Entity, most powerful force in Marvel,

below TOAA.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
No evidence whatsoever in any Bio or Comic book that states the UN comes in different power levels, the only thing we know is that the distance of Nullification can be tweaked,

other than that, the UN is as powerful now as it was the first time it was introduced.



Yes there is,

an Incomplete IG is above the UN energies:

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5366/igvsunoz6.th.jpg

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2843/igvsun2pi1.th.jpg

Magus controlled those energies and negated Quasar with them,

Absolute control..

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8928/igvsun3sw2.th.jpg
"With a Thought, I turn the Universe's most devastating weapon upon it's bearer"



Yes.

Magus Merged Two UniverseS in an instant with an Incomplete IG.

The LT said,

the IG if formed in Rune's Multiverse, could take down his and,

"perhaps Our Own Universe aswell"

The LT was speaking about Prime Multiverse that houses the 616 Universe,

the Multiverse he oversees primarily as Judge.



You want the Proof, just ask. smile



Only the LT has been proven to be above the IG conclusively.

That's not a Multiversal being, that's an Omniversal Entity, most powerful force in Marvel,

below TOAA.

All of this you speak is double speak from your own desire to always be right. You are conclusively wrong. Galactus is much more powerful than he was portrayed to be back then as well. You CANNOT take a showing from something 20 years ago, and somehow compare it to a showing from today and then say that it's in fact the same lvl or power. The writers of the IG saga never intended for the UN to be multiversal back then becuz it wasn't. So now tha it's being used in that way, you think of som dumb witted way to try and say the IG is multiversal. WTF. And the LT saying somethign perhaps is hyperbole. The IG has never been shown as being a threat to any multibeing. You actually think the multi-Death gives a damned about the IG? NOT! It's less than her. Even the combined Eternity and Infinity didn't give a damn about the IG.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
We are talking about ON PANEL showings. having the same capabilities is not the point. I can drive a porche ok. But a race car driver can drive the same care much better. Same capabilities. totally differnt results. As far as on panel showings go, Reed's UN showing was better.


Why?

Because Quasar was only trying to destroy a single being.

Reed on the other hand, was actually trying to, and succeeded in, resetting the Multiverse.



In short,

The same exact weapon was used in both instances, and this weapon has the exact same overall power, but it was simply used in completely different ways.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
As far as on panel showings go, Reed's UN showing was better.


Why?

Because Quasar was only trying to destroy a single being.

Reed on the other hand, was actually trying to, and succeeded in, resetting the Multiverse.



In short,

The same exact weapon was used in both instances, and this weapon has the exact same overall power, but it was simply used in completely different ways.

Who says the weapon has the same over all power? When was the story written about the IG war? Now when was the UN resetting the multiverse written? Case closed.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Who says the weapon has the same over all power? When was the story written about the IG war? Now when was the UN resetting the multiverse written? Case closed. What the f**k?

The UN has NEVER been shown as being powered up over the years, so you can't say it's more powerful now, simply because it was used differently. erm

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
What the f**k?

The UN has NEVER been shown as being powered up over the years, so you can't say it's more powerful now, simply because it was used differently. erm

I'll explain it simple. Just becuz Superman Pwned Despero with Heat vision recently, doesn't mean that killer frost from the 90's can beat Despero just becuz She pwns Superman's heat vision from then.

According to your logic, Superman's heat vision hasn't had an official upgrade. Just like the UN hasn't had an official one.

So becuz Killer frost has been able to completely dominate Superman's heat vision in the past, this means that she now can WTF pwn Despero becuz Despero has been put down by the same heat vision. You can't retroactively do feat comparisons. Which is what you guys are trying to do and it doesn't work.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I'll explain it simple. Just becuz Superman Pwned Despero with Heat vision recently, doesn't mean that killer frost from the 90's can beat Despero just becuz She pwns Superman's heat vision from then.

According to your logic, Superman's heat vision hasn't had an official upgrade. Just like the UN hasn't had an official one.

So becuz Killer frost has been able to completely dominate Superman's heat vision in the past, this means that she now can WTF pwn Despero becuz Despero has been put down by the same heat vision. You can't retroactively do feat comparisons. Which is what you guys are trying to do and it doesn't work. Geeze... roll eyes (sarcastic)


There is just no debating with you.


You have an opinion in your head, so you will simply not listen to anyone but yourself. erm



Anyhow,

I'm not going to post in here anymore.

This will just turn into another "name calling" thread that Digi will have to close, due to excessive reports.



-Peace out. cool

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
Geeze... roll eyes (sarcastic)


There is just no debating with you.


You have an opinion in your head, so you will simply not listen to anyone but yourself. erm



Anyhow,

I'm not going to post in here anymore.

This will just turn into another "name calling" thread that Digi will have to close, due to excessive reports.



-Peace out. cool

I haven't called anyone a name. But you know I'm right. You just won't admit to it. You are using ABC logic with panel feats to justify you saying the IG is actually Multiversal in the true sense.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I haven't called anyone a name. You will, sooner or later.
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
But you know I'm right. You just won't admit to it. Sure you are. thumb up

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Galan007
You will, sooner or later.
Sure you are. thumb up

No I won't. If I decide that people are stuck in thier ways and refuse to use good scientific logic, then I'll take a break like I have been doing. Any good researcher, Debator, or scientist will tell you that the circumstances and operators and Time frame, have integral parts of the equation. You change one and you have a new equation. in this case the only thing that is the same is that the UN was being used. But everything else changes thus making the comparisons based upon feats from completely differnt times null and void and wishfull thinking. Unless you think WOnder Woman using the God wave can beat THe LT. Cronos certainly beat everyone who would be equal to or greater than the LT with the very same God wave.

Creshosk
So you have proof that the UN was at two different power levels?

If not then how can you assume that it was?

Unlike heat vision which is tied to a character who's powered by sunlight and gets stronger the more sunlight he hasavailable to him. The UN is a serpate machine. are we to assume that machines naturally evovle themselves without assistance?

Say you build a computer today. now you use this computer once to make a webpage because that's all you need. Now in 60 years you come back to this very same computer and use it again this time to make an entire website. Would the computer have improved itself due to natural evolution like you imply happened with the UN? or would it have preformed better due to someone using it in a different way than before?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
So you have proof that the UN was at two different power levels?

If not then how can you assume that it was?

Unlike heat vision which is tied to a character who's powered by sunlight and gets stronger the more sunlight he hasavailable to him. The UN is a serpate machine. are we to assume that machines naturally evovle themselves without assistance?

Say you build a computer today. now you use this computer once to make a webpage because that's all you need. Now in 60 years you come back to this very same computer and use it again this time to make an entire website. Would the computer have improved itself due to natural evolution like you imply happened with the UN? or would it have preformed better due to someone using it in a different way than before?

You do realize that The UN is a part of Galactus who is a being that also grows and reduces in power. Nuff said.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You do realize that The UN is a part of Galactus who is a being that also grows and reduces in power. Nuff said. So there's another variable that you left out.

In that case what powerlevel was galactus at when Quasar used it? What about when Reed used it?

What about for this hypothetical..
What power level is Reed's Galactus at?
What power level is Quasar's Galactus at?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
So there's another variable that you left out.

In that case what powerlevel was galactus at when Quasar used it? What about when Reed used it?

What about for this hypothetical..
What power level is Reed's Galactus at?
What power level is Quasar's Galactus at?

Big G was shown to be the prime big G as of When Reed used the UN. We do know that Big at the time was pwned and wrapped up when quasar was using the UN. For all we know, the magus depowered him alot. I don't remember the story off hand with all details.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Big G was shown to be the prime big G as of When Reed used the UN. We do know that Big at the time was pwned and wrapped up when quasar was using the UN. For all we know, the magus depowered him alot. I don't remember the story off hand with all details. So the circumstances in which they were even able to use the UN were completely different.

Different uses, different users, different base power sources...

Looks like you have too many altered variables to support your hypothesis my friend. You're leading the evidence. Your logic is flawed thus your conclusion is invalid.

Now again, I'll ask you for this hypothetical situation is the Galactus of Quasar's UN at the same powerlevel as the Galactus of Reed's UN?

How many variables are you forcibly changing to get the results you want?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
So the circumstances in which they were even able to use the UN were completely different.

Different uses, different users, different base power sources...

Looks like you have too many altered variables to support your hypothesis my friend. You're leading the evidence. Your logic is flawed thus your conclusion is invalid.

Now again, I'll ask you for this hypothetical situation is the Galactus of Quasar's UN at the same powerlevel as the Galactus of Reed's UN?

How many variables are you forcibly changing to get the results you want?

You saying the same thing I"m saying. I'm saying they cannot be the same becuz of all the variables. I'm arguing against Galan and Mr. Master who conclude that they are indeed at the same lvl even with all those varying circumstances.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Creshosk
So you have proof that the UN was at two different power levels?

If not then how can you assume that it was?

Unlike heat vision which is tied to a character who's powered by sunlight and gets stronger the more sunlight he hasavailable to him. The UN is a serpate machine. are we to assume that machines naturally evovle themselves without assistance?

Say you build a computer today. now you use this computer once to make a webpage because that's all you need. Now in 60 years you come back to this very same computer and use it again this time to make an entire website. Would the computer have improved itself due to natural evolution like you imply happened with the UN? or would it have preformed better due to someone using it in a different way than before?

Impressive.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So the circumstances in which they were even able to use the UN were completely different.

Different uses, different users, different base power sources...

Looks like you have too many altered variables to support your hypothesis my friend. You're leading the evidence. Your logic is flawed thus your conclusion is invalid.

Now again, I'll ask you for this hypothetical situation is the Galactus of Quasar's UN at the same powerlevel as the Galactus of Reed's UN?

How many variables are you forcibly changing to get the results you want?

Owned.

*edit* btw, good question,

Galactus was the same in 92' as he was 2001, as he still is the balance of the Universe.

Priest
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Big G was shown to be the prime big G as of When Reed used the UN. We do know that Big at the time was pwned and wrapped up when quasar was using the UN. For all we know, the magus depowered him alot. I don't remember the story off hand with all details.

Actually Galactus during the time of the Infinity Wars was pretty powerful, id say more powerful than the version that was used during th abarax arc.

I say this because Galactus was able to Survive and reform himself his ship Surfer, Nova and Dr. Strange from a blast from Mangus with 5 cosmic cubes. Also Galactus himself comments how mangus underestimate his power.

Another thing to note is Galactus was pretty much on top of his game in the Infinity Gauntlet Saga when he went to fight Thanos w/IG. This is Shorty before the UN insident with Quasar.

You saying that Big G was at his prime during the time of Abarax is kinda speculative, especially since nova was able to damage him heavily.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You saying the same thing I"m saying. I'm saying they cannot be the same becuz of all the variables. I'm arguing against Galan and Mr. Master who conclude that they are indeed at the same lvl even with all those varying circumstances. So you normilize the variables that were different inorder to acheive the results which are true and not the ones you lead them to be.

What would have happened if Quasar's Galactus had been the same as Reed's? Also factor in them tring to acheive the same thing. Naturally we can't touch confidence or knowledge of the device.

But it still seems to me that they'd simply wipe each other out and it'd be a stalemate. Reed is not Magus neither is Quasar. Quasar is not a multiverse and neither is Reed.

With too many variables you cannot conclude your research so have to answer either no contest or stalemate to show a lack of bias.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Priest
Actually Galactus during the time of the Infinity Wars was pretty powerful, id say more powerful than the version that was used during th abarax arc.

I say this because Galactus was able to Survive and reform himself his ship Surfer, Nova and Dr. Strange from a blast from Mangus with 5 cosmic cubes. Also Galactus himself comments how mangus underestimate his power.

Another thing to note is Galactus was pretty much on top of his game in the Infinity Gauntlet Saga when he went to fight Thanos w/IG. This is Shorty before the UN insident with Quasar.

You saying that Big G was at his prime during the time of Abarax is kinda speculative, especially since nova was able to damage him heavily.

thumb up

Mr Master
Originally posted by Creshosk
So you normilize the variables that were different inorder to acheive the results which are true and not the ones you lead them to be.

What would have happened if Quasar's Galactus had been the same as Reed's? Also factor in them tring to acheive the same thing. Naturally we can't touch confidence or knowledge of the device.

But it still seems to me that they'd simply wipe each other out and it'd be a stalemate. Reed is not Magus neither is Quasar. Quasar is not a multiverse and neither is Reed.

With too many variables you cannot conclude your research so have to answer either no contest or stalemate to show a lack of bias.

thumb up

Dang! again. laughing

Like they say, "you gotta strike when the iron's hot"

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
So you normilize the variables that were different inorder to acheive the results which are true and not the ones you lead them to be.

What would have happened if Quasar's Galactus had been the same as Reed's? Also factor in them tring to acheive the same thing. Naturally we can't touch confidence or knowledge of the device.

But it still seems to me that they'd simply wipe each other out and it'd be a stalemate. Reed is not Magus neither is Quasar. Quasar is not a multiverse and neither is Reed.

With too many variables you cannot conclude your research so have to answer either no contest or stalemate to show a lack of bias.

There is no way to normalize variables when the variables are not in a controlled envire. To suggest that Reed using the UN to reset the multiverse, which was not even fighting against the Un's powers, as it is actually a creation of the Multi, is in no way a comparison to what quasar only "TRIED" to achieve. Thus saying the incomplete IG is superior to the Multiversal restructing UN is unfounded. Case closed.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Priest
Actually Galactus during the time of the Infinity Wars was pretty powerful, id say more powerful than the version that was used during th abarax arc.

I say this because Galactus was able to Survive and reform himself his ship Surfer, Nova and Dr. Strange from a blast from Mangus with 5 cosmic cubes. Also Galactus himself comments how mangus underestimate his power.

Another thing to note is Galactus was pretty much on top of his game in the Infinity Gauntlet Saga when he went to fight Thanos w/IG. This is Shorty before the UN insident with Quasar.

You saying that Big G was at his prime during the time of Abarax is kinda speculative, especially since nova was able to damage him heavily.

Except During the time of the abraxas arc, big G is now the prime big G and the crux to the salvation of the multiverse. Something not shown or even hinted to in previous appearances.

Priest
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Except During the time of the abraxas arc, big G is now the prime big G and the crux to the salvation of the multiverse. Something not shown or even hinted to in previous appearances.
their both the same Galactus no expression

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
There is no way to normalize variables when the variables are not in a controlled envire. This *gestures to the forums* is a controlled environment. We pit gods against one another. Fictional super beings fight in hypothetical situations for our entertainment.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
To suggest that Reed using the UN to reset the multiverse, which was not even fighting against the Un's powers, as it is actually a creation of the Multi, is in no way a comparison to what quasar only "TRIED" to achieve. Thus saying the incomplete IG is superior to the Multiversal restructing UN is unfounded. Case closed. Stalemate then. Because you are saying that a comparison of targets in the previous scenerios is impossible. Then its impossible to compare Quasar's use of a machine to Reed's use of a machine.

You use a computer to write a fictional novel. I use it to compose music. Mr Master uses it to make a piece of art.

Who is better at using the computer?

Creshosk
Originally posted by Priest
their both the same Galactus no expression Apparently at some point in time Galactus became Galactus Prime. I wonder how he'd fare against Jubilee Prime, JP or KMC's royal family.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Priest
their both the same Galactus no expression

Um NO. It's a retroactive retcon. Thus everything that happens in the past has to be viewed that way.

I'll explain it to you simply.

Let's say Odin is retconned into a being that was always Superior to the LT. Tho it was never shown. It is just revealed. Now when Odin dies, he actually comes back with his trusty weapon gungigear and slays the LT.

Now someone decides that becuz Thanos with Stood that sword gun thing, back then, it's a feat that is still worthy today. And One can say well, it's still the same odin. Even tho it was only just revealed that Odin was this Superior omniversal being. It's the same Odin. So now, One coudl theorize that Thanos is Now Even Superior to this portrayal of Odin, based upon a PAST showing. This does not compute. And it's the same thing people are doing when they try and use the current showings of the UN to justify the IG's power.

Priest
Originally posted by Creshosk
Apparently at some point in time Galactus became Galactus Prime. I wonder how he'd fare against Jubilee Prime, JP or KMC's royal family.
haermm
GALACTUS PRIMEomg!

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's a retroactive retcon.

Yes yes go on . . .

Mr Master
Originally posted by Creshosk
Then its impossible to compare Quasar's use of a machine to Reed's use of a machine.

You use a computer to write a fictional novel.

I use it to compose music. Mr Master uses it to make a piece of art.

Who is better at using the computer?

Is anyone reading this?

Cresh, you're good. cool

Mr Master
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes yes go on . . .

laughing

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
Is anyone reading this?

Cresh, you're good. cool

Not that Good. The output of the computer can be read by what the user at the time is doing. And thier skill at handling the computer. THe computer also could have an upgrade or get smarter as time goes on. Try again.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes yes go on . . .

Retroactive retcons cannot be used to justify something in the past. The past action must stand on it's own. Or else We could play those silly games in every comic debate.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
This *gestures to the forums* is a controlled environment. We pit gods against one another. Fictional super beings fight in hypothetical situations for our entertainment.

Stalemate then. Because you are saying that a comparison of targets in the previous scenerios is impossible. Then its impossible to compare Quasar's use of a machine to Reed's use of a machine.

You use a computer to write a fictional novel. I use it to compose music. Mr Master uses it to make a piece of art.

Who is better at using the computer?

It's not who is better at using the computer that matters all in itself. It matters at who is measuring the output of said computer. try again. Different uses require differnt computations and a different amount of RAM, Thinking, and energy used by the machine.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Not that Good. The output of the computer can be read by what the user at the time is doing. And thier skill at handling the computer. THe computer also could have an upgrade or get smarter as time goes on. Try again. How does a computer "get smarter"?

Lets say that the time between is as soon as one of us finishes the next person starts on the same computer. The others wait their turn and don't study computers.

Who's better at using a computer? The person made a story, made music, or made a picture?

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Retroactive retcons cannot be used to justify something in the past.

The past action must stand on it's own. Or else We could play those silly games in every comic debate.

I just noticed ... you were serious. What the f**k?

Endless Mike
Quasar has FTL speed, he can just grab Reed's UN before he even has a chance to think of firing it.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's not who is better at using the computer that matters all in itself. It matters at who is measuring the output of said computer. try again. Different uses require differnt computations and a different amount of RAM, Thinking, and energy used by the machine. I thought we were comparing the skills of the user with the same device?

Or are you going to be giving Reed a better UN in this hypothetical thus forcing the answer you want rather than the objective truth in which case you have an agenda and thus a very closed mind.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Retroactive retcons cannot be used to justify something in the past. The past action must stand on it's own. Or else We could play those silly games in every comic debate.

I was pointing out that retcon's are by their very nature retroactive. But nevermind.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
I just noticed ... you were serious. What the f**k?

Yes. Meaning it was a retcon of origin. Not of ACTION and Power lvl.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Quasar has FTL speed, he can just grab Reed's UN before he even has a chance to think of firing it.

I suggested Quasar's speed earlier on too,

with a quicker trigger finger, if that was the forced set up of the battle.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
How does a computer "get smarter"?

Lets say that the time between is as soon as one of us finishes the next person starts on the same computer. The others wait their turn and don't study computers.

Who's better at using a computer? The person made a story, made music, or made a picture?

Computers get smarter while in use. Or haven't you noticed after you go to a site a couple of times, it will then start taking you to the site on it's own. And It's not who's better at using the computer on it's own, it's who actually accomplishes what they set out to do, the size and scope of the project, and the actual energy and ram needed to finish said product. Nice try.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I was pointing out that retcon's are by their very nature retroactive. But nevermind.

I know, but when using a retcon to justify feats, it's get very very iffy.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Computers get smarter while in use. Or haven't you noticed after you go to a site a couple of times, it will then start taking you to the site on it's own.

Thats an algorithm preprogramed into the system. It didn't learn to do that.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Mr Master
I suggested Quasar's speed earlier on too,

with a quicker trigger finger, it that was the forced set up of the battle. This is true. If all of the variables in the situation are the same then the answer would obviously come down to initiative. Who moves first.

Then if we factor in the natural abilities of the users then the fast user would obviously win with their "kill shot" first.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Computers get smarter while in use. Or haven't you noticed after you go to a site a couple of times, it will then start taking you to the site on it's own. And It's not who's better at using the computer on it's own, it's who actually accomplishes what they set out to do, the size and scope of the project, and the actual energy and ram needed to finish said product. Nice try. So the answer is "not you." Since you obviously don't understand the software part of a computer.

Lets swap out the dead weight in the analogy for someone who knows what they're talking about.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Thats an algorithm preprogramed into the system. It didn't learn to do that.

Symmetric chaos, I choose you to be one of the computer users in my analogy. You know about cookies right?

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Yes. Meaning it was a retcon of origin. Not of ACTION and Power lvl.

So you agree that Galactus in 92' was the same as Galactus in 2001, as Galactus now?

Which means that your UN theory increasing in power due to Galactus's increase because of their relationship,

was incorrect,

because Galactus in fact hasn't had a power boost since then?


Because Galactus was the balance of the Universe then and he was in 2001 as he is now.

The ONLY difference between 92' and 2001 (had Galactus died in 92) was Abraxas,

in 92' when Abraxas did not exist, the Universe would have still collapsed only on it's own, shortly followed by a chain reaction of other UniverseS, until the Multiverse is folded.

In 2001, we were given a Manifestation of that collpase in the form of a being called Abraxas.


1992 and 2001 would have still resulted in the same finality had Galactus 616 died.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Creshosk
Symmetric chaos, I choose you to be one of the computer users in my analogy. You know about cookies right?

Yeah . . .

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
So the answer is "not you." Since you obviously don't understand the software part of a computer.

Lets swap out the dead weight in the analogy for someone who knows what they're talking about.



Symmetric chaos, I choose you to be one of the computer users in my analogy. You know about cookies right?

No need in being insulting. The point remains the same. It depends on the size of each project, who actually accomplishes thier goal, and who does the more complex project. The results determine who used the computer the best. At maximum capacity. Unless you think me typing an 80 page report is equal to someone who used Power Point to create a thousand sheet moving presentation complete with graphs and sound attachments. Please don't be a jerk.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
So you agree that Galactus in 92' was the same as Galactus in 2001, as Galactus now?

Which means that your UN theory increasing in power due to Galactus's increase because of their relationship,

was incorrect,

because Galactus in fact hasn't had a power boost since then?


Because Galactus was the balance of the Universe then and he was in 2001 as he is now.

The ONLY difference between 92' and 2001 (had Galactus died in 92) was Abraxas,

in 92' when Abraxas did not exist, the Universe would have still collapsed only on it's own, shortly followed by a chain reaction of other UniverseS, until the Multiverse is folded.

In 2001, we were given a Manifestation of that collpase in the form of a being called Abraxas.


1992 and 2001 would have still resulted in the same finality had Galactus 616 died.

NO. Galactus was not the same. The Revelation of where he actually came from and what his death meant changes everything.

Creshosk
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yeah . . . Good. That means you're not going to say anything retarded like:

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No need in being insulting. The point remains the same. It depends on the size of each project, who actually accomplishes thier goal, and who does the more complex project. The results determine who used the computer the best. At maximum capacity. Unless you think me typing an 80 page report is equal to someone who used Power Point to create a thousand sheet moving presentation complete with graphs and sound attachments. Please don't be a jerk. Did I say power point presentation?

No, I said one perosn writes a story. One person composes a piece of music, the other person makes a piece of art.

Don't be a jerk? This coming from someone who says "Nice try." all the time?

You still don't get it.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
Good. That means you're not going to say anything retarded like:

Doesn't matter if the computer is programmed for it or not. A Human child is born with all of it's potential at once as well. But guess what, It learns and adapts. It's part of the programming. A computer can be programmed to get smarter as time goes on. At any rate, I have already shown that outcome is as important as the user and the time. Nuff said. Reed with the UN had a bigger and better outcome than Quasar with the UN. Period.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
Did I say power point presentation?

No, I said one perosn writes a story. One person composes a piece of music, the other person makes a piece of art.

Don't be a jerk? This coming from someone who says "Nice try." all the time?

You still don't get it.

Doesn't matter. If someone writes a story, they are only using basic functions of word. In order to write music, one would have to know theory, and know how to use the music program. One who makes art has to use various programs all more complicated than the simple use of word. All of these different programs will take different amounts of energy, differnt RAM and memory, and differnt skill levels to achieve. good night.

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
NO. Galactus was not the same. The Revelation of where he actually came from and what his death meant changes everything.

Baaaaack in the day.

Before Infinity was even in the picture, far before Abraxas was even thought of:

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/1274/spurposecx5.th.jpg

When the Universe was Eternity and Death,

Galactus stated to be what cures the imperfections that unbalance the Universe,

same as he does with Abraxas, the living inbalance between Eternity & Infinity now.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Doesn't matter if the computer is programmed for it or not. A Human child is born with all of it's potential at once as well. But guess what, It learns and adapts. It's part of the programming. A computer can be programmed to get smarter as time goes on. At any rate, I have already shown that outcome is as important as the user and the time. Nuff said. Reed with the UN had a bigger and better outcome than Quasar with the UN. Period. I'm sorry I can no longer debate with you. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
Baaaaack in the day.

Before Infinity was even in the picture, far before Abraxas was even thought of:

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/1274/spurposecx5.th.jpg

When the Universe was Eternity and Death,

Galactus stated to be what cures the imperfections that unbalance the Universe,

same as he does with Abraxas, the living inbalance between Eternity & Infinity now.

Nah. Eternity and Death are Universal. The abraxas arc is so much more. It's about the MultiEternity.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Doesn't matter. If someone writes a story, they are only using basic functions of word. In order to write music, one would have to know theory, and know how to use the music program. One who makes art has to use various programs all more complicated than the simple use of word. All of these different programs will take different amounts of energy, differnt RAM and memory, and differnt skill levels to achieve. good night. I take it you don't even know anything about writing stories, composing music OR making art..

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
I'm sorry I can no longer debate with you. I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

What ever you say. when it boilds down to it. Reed had widely different results than quasar. differnt objectives, differnt users, differnt results.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Creshosk
I take it you don't even know anything about writing stories, composing music OR making art..

I know that in order to use a computer to compose music, one must know theory, which I do, and one must also know how to use one of the software programs like protools. This programs takes a lot more skill to use than even an advanced user of Word would have. It also takes up more RAM and Memory. making art on a computer is also fairly more difficult than using word to write a story. I'm going home now. Have a good night.

Creshosk
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I know that in order to use a computer to compose music, one must know theory, which I do, and one must also know how to use one of the software programs like protools. This programs takes a lot more skill to use than even an advanced user of Word would have. It also takes up more RAM and Memory. making art on a computer is also fairly more difficult than using word to write a story. I'm going home now. Have a good night. Yup, just as I thought you don't know anything about the fields I listed.

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Nah. Eternity and Death are Universal. The abraxas arc is so much more. It's about the MultiEternity.

Actually, Death and Eternity in their Totality, have always been Multiversal Abstracts,

like then like now:

Here Death explains to Galactus that they were born at the same time,

in the beginning of the first Universe that sprang into a Multiverse.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4964/gdtb7.th.jpg

This is again, baaaack in the day, when this Death speaks, the Totality of Death or Multi-Death is speaking aswell, cause the Abstracts share their consciousness with their Totality as with their Aspects as though they were one.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, Death and Eternity in their Totality, have always been Multiversal Abstracts,

like then like now:

Here Death explains to Galactus that they were born at the same time,

in the beginning of the first Universe that sprang into a Multiverse.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4964/gdtb7.th.jpg

This is again, baaaack in the day, when this Death speaks, the Totality of Death or Multi-Death is speaking aswell, cause the Abstracts share their consciousness with their Totality as with their Aspects as though they were one.

That doesn't even make a bit of sense. They may be part of the mutli aspects. But they aren't the multi being themself.

Galan007
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That doesn't even make a bit of sense. They may be part of the mutli aspects. But they aren't the multi being themself. I'm pretty sure that's why Mr M said,

"In their totality"...

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That doesn't even make a bit of sense. They may be part of the mutli aspects. But they aren't the multi being themself.

The Totality of Eternity or "Multi-Eternity"

shares the SAME Consciousness as a single Aspect of Eternity.

This has been proven On Panel.


Now obviously their power levels are different,

The Totality of Eternity or Multi-Eternity = the Multiverse

An Aspect of Eternity = a Single Universe


But they are the SAME being in terms of Consciousness.


So when an Aspect speaks, it's as though the Totality is speaking aswell.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm pretty sure that's why Mr M said,

"In their totality"...

thumb up

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.