Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

Is this HOM Wanda and current Mxy

yes and I don't know much about current version of Mxy....isn't head dead? I heard.

He was depowered by Zatanna(I believe)

Prime embarassed Mxy

HOM Wanda FTW

Mxy loses and then hides curled up in a ball in the fifth dimension.

Mxy in a stomp

Originally posted by guy222
He was depowered by Zatanna(I believe)

Prime embarassed Mxy

HOM Wanda FTW

IF he was depowered then how come he couldn't die? Even the spectre couldn't really depower mxy. Mxy even talks to us about the very issue he appears in, and is just fine. Zatanna didn't depower mxy. She sapped his will to conjure his power. Prime also did not embarrass mxy. He couldn't make mxy do what he wanted. Oh and Mxy turns wanda into a rock. Or seals her in a comic.

Mxy for the easy win...very easy win

Mxy wastes Wanda.
5d imp >>>>mutant

Is this HOM Wanda ...
the being that ripped the entire Marvel Omniverse (multiple MegaverseS) to pieces,
and then re-created the entire Marvel Omniverse with a phrase?

I was wondering about the abilities of the being that can "easily" beat
anyone capable of doing that to an entire Comic book company, effortlessly btw.

dontgetit
.....................................................................................

I don't care on the pure speculation of who would win this cross-company duel,
but it's fascinatingly hilarious to see cats thinking Wanda loses "easily," to anyone.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Prime also did not embarrass mxy. He couldn't make mxy do what he wanted.

Mxy had his face burned after getting tortured and wanted to seal off the 5th dimension because he was scared of SMP. How is that not embarrassing?

Originally posted by Kutulu
Mxy had his face burned after getting tortured and wanted to seal off the 5th dimension because he was scared of SMP. How is that not embarrassing?

That sounds like PIS. Mxy from my understanding is like at least abstract level.

Originally posted by Alfheim
That sounds like PIS. Mxy from my understanding is like at least abstract level.

Well SMP did have outside help to de-power Mxy first. Still Mxy did look scared though. SMP as later revealed had the full powers of a Guardian boosting his abilities at the time, as well.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Well SMP did have outside help to de-power Mxy first. Still Mxy did look scared though. SMP as later revealed had the full powers of a Guardian boosting his abilities at the time, as well. What's funny is,
even before his current power-up, Prime was ultimatley responsible for the rebirth of the Multiverse.

The kid is insanely powerful.

Originally posted by Galan007
What's funny is,
even before his current power-up, Prime was ultimatley responsible for the rebirth of the Multiverse.

The kid is insanely powerful.
HE really is. But then one has to wonder Just how powerful one gaurdian is if they can literally rip him atom from atom and at the same time, empower him so much that he can punch his way into the 5th. It really puts into perspective how powerful Depowered AM is, How powerful the gaurdians are, and why He got rid of them the first time around, and Superboy prime. Barring exotic powers, He's got to be high skyfather level. And Really, I don't know too many skyfathers able to retcon and bring back multiverses.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
HE really is. But then one has to wonder Just how powerful one gaurdian is if they can literally rip him atom from atom and at the same time, empower him so much that he can punch his way into the 5th. It really puts into perspective how powerful Depowered AM is, How powerful the gaurdians are, and why He got rid of them the first time around, and Superboy prime. Barring exotic powers, He's got to be high skyfather level. And Really, I don't know too many skyfathers able to retcon and bring back multiverses. Simply put,
Pre-Crisis characters are just a way for writers to do whatever the hell they want/need to -- without any 'logical' explination.

Originally posted by Galan007
Simply put,
Pre-Crisis characters are just a way for writers to do whatever the hell they want/need to -- without any 'logical' explination.

I wonder if any other Pre Crisis Characters will be making thier way back. I'd love to see a precrisis Firestorm come and Kick SBP's ass.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I wonder if any other Pre Crisis Characters will be making thier way back. I'd love to see a precrisis Firestorm come and Kick SBP's ass. Post-crisis Firestorm's feats have been much more impressive than in his pre-crisis days.... imo.

so Mxy ever effected the entire omniverse with his power ?

Originally posted by 123KID
so Mxy ever effected the entire omniverse with his power ? Well I'll put it this way.
I couldn't see Wanda taking on Emperor Joker!

Originally posted by 123KID
so Mxy ever effected the entire omniverse with his power ?
The One singular DC earth houses all the power of the previous multiverses. Joker Played with it like it was nothing. Mxy defeated a being who was everything via BFR. He also pwned everything in WF. He's retconned characters, and Is able to simultaneously be in a story, and out of it talking about it at the same time.

a multiverse is pretty minute compared to an omniverse which Wanda warped

Originally posted by 123KID
a multiverse is pretty minute compared to an omniverse which Wanda warped
NOt in DC. Marvel's omniverse doesn't make it any larger than ONe DC universe as far as I'm concerned if the Universe happens to be a combine of ALL universes.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Is this HOM Wanda ...
the being that ripped the entire Marvel Omniverse (multiple MegaverseS) to pieces,
and then re-created the entire Marvel Omniverse with a phrase?

I was wondering about the abilities of the being that can "easily" beat
anyone capable of doing that to an entire Comic book company, effortlessly btw.

dontgetit
.....................................................................................

I don't care on the pure speculation of who would win this cross-company duel,
but it's fascinatingly hilarious to see cats thinking Wanda loses "easily," to anyone.



What the? It was the whole omniverse not just 616? How did that happen, no way a simple mutant can do that? Isn't that like equal or above even the phoenix(yeah I know she's multiverse lvl entity too.)? sounds like above HOTU, infinity gaunlet and living tribunal too...

Normally I'd Mxy wins, but I didn't know wanda became that powerful(I'd heard strange beat her.), what made her that way. If she's that powerful it is possible that she could win.

Mxy with a snap of his fingers.

Mxy.

Why was this made...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why was this made...

Probably because of HOM Wanda's feats. Which are uber as hell.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why was this made...

It's a surprise Date Night for your face and palm.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why was this made...
Because HoM Wanda has superior feats compared to Mxy, or any other omnipotent character in comics.

And back in those days, it was presumed that she did all that sh1t by her own power...

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Because HoM Wanda has superior feats compared to Mxy, or any other omnipotent character in comics.

And back in those days, it was presumed that she did all that sh1t by her own power...

In what ways are her feats superior? She's a big fish in a little universe. Mxy is a multidimensional shark.

Originally posted by Odekahn
In what ways are her feats superior? She's a big fish in a little universe. Mxy is a multidimensional shark.
HoM Wanda altered reality on an omniversal scale, which actually trumps the feats of everymost Abstract level beings in comics.

Trying to claim that Mxy is anywhere near the Wanda's HoM levels of power, is retarded at best.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
HoM Wanda altered reality on an omniversal scale, which actually trumps the feats of everymost Abstract level beings in comics.

Trying to claim that Mxy is anywhere near the Wanda's HoM levels of power, is retarded at best.

Define this "omniverse" for me... How many universes is it exactly?

Originally posted by Odekahn
Define this "omniverse" for me... How many universes is it exactly?
An omniverse is as much a beyond a multiverse as a multiverse is beyond a universe.

Sometimes, there are terms like metaverse and megaverse used to describe levels of reality higher than multiverses in comics, but even then the omniverse has always remained highest ranked among them all.

DC has an "Omnivrse" as well and he destroyed EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by Golgo13
DC has an "Omnivrse" as well and he destroyed EVERYTHING.
Nevermind the fact that the term "omniverse" wasn't used once in that story, the "everything" that he destroyed was described as a multiverse in prior issues.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Nevermind the fact that the term "omniverse" wasn't used once in that story, the "everything" that he destroyed was described as a multiverse in prior issues.

He destroyed every reality/Universe DC had. As Galan pointed out before, Mxy stated "This" Multiverse, meaning plural. He messed up more than one multiverse and at the end destroyed and recreated everything with a snap. More impressive than Wanda, IMO.

Originally posted by Galan007
What's funny is,
even before his current power-up, Prime was ultimatley responsible for the rebirth of the Multiverse.

The kid is insanely powerful. yes he is the most powerful brick besides the legendary PC superman.

Hom Wanda was a beasty and had a crazy feat. Still mxy has more feats not downplaying wanda, just mxy has more feats some mite say better feats too.

Ok then, I guess my question is this. You have a universe, if you add another, it's a multiverse. At what point does a multiverse become an omniverse?

Originally posted by Odekahn
Ok then, I guess my question is this. You have a universe, if you add another, it's a multiverse. At what point does a multiverse become an omniverse?

By definition an Omniverse a totality of all universes and alternate realities. Among every dimension, etc... Which Mxy destroyed.

Originally posted by Golgo13
He destroyed every reality/Universe DC had. As Galan pointed out before, Mxy stated "This" Multiverse, meaning plural. He messed up more than one multiverse and at the end destroyed and recreated everything with a snap. More impressive than Wanda, IMO.
So you don't actually have proof that he messed up more than one multiverse, but are going by faith? Good to know.
Originally posted by Odekahn
Ok then, I guess my question is this. You have a universe, if you add another, it's a multiverse. At what point does a multiverse become an omniverse?
An omniverse is, in comic book theory, an infinity of multiverses/megaverses.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So you don't actually have proof that he messed up more than one multiverse, but are going by faith? Good to know.

An omniverse is, in comic book theory, an infinity of multiverses/megaverses.

Has she displayed that scale of power outside that arc?

Mxy wins.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Has she displayed that scale of power outside that arc?
Of course not. I was merely explaining to Jake why this thread was ever made in the first place. Because in those days, people were still recovering from the hangover of HoM, and it was yet to be proven that Wanda had been amped(by the Life-Force, a retcon introduced more recently).

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
HoM Wanda altered reality on an omniversal scale, which actually trumps the feats of everymost Abstract level beings in comics.

Trying to claim that Mxy is anywhere near the Wanda's HoM levels of power, is retarded at best.
Mxy feats in WF beats every feat Wanda has done. He has casually destroyed PC era, destroyed the multiverses numerous of times.

the omniverse definition differs, in LT's handbook it is stated that it encompasses megaverses, in quasar it's defined as being a continuum of multiverses, and basically every issue in new exiles defines the omniverse as being all possible universes.

in any case, it is definitely bigger than the multiverse, because we have universe like earth shadowline being outside the mutliverse, 2005 handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/5njhq1p.jpg?1

that's just one example, there's more.

mxy did destroy dc and rearrange it with a snap of fingers, that's true, but we also have wanda affect the entire omniverse with 3 words, avengers: children's crusade #6:

http://i.imgur.com/UJNblWj.jpg

btw that makes sense considering the core continuum designation numbers all earths throughout the omniverse (not just the multiverse), spiderman back in black

http://i.imgur.com/ANseCBk.jpg?1


and if we take into consideration what was shown in uncanny x-men #491, this would be at a completely ridiculous level.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Mxy feats in WF beats every feat Wanda has done. He has casually destroyed PC era, destroyed the multiverses numerous of times.
So, apart from yelling "No! My guy is better than your gal!" you don't actually have any proof to suggest that Wanda's real omniversal scale performance is less than Mxy's make-believe one? I figured as much.

On a sidenote, I suggest that you go and read House of M, before posting such bullshit next time.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So, apart from yelling "No! My guy is better than your gal!" you don't actually have any proof to suggest that Wanda's real omniversal scale performance is less than Mxy's make-believe one? I figured as much.

On a sidenote, I suggest that you go and read House of M, before posting such bullshit next time. I've read it a while back, just because someone hada different core doesn't mean their didmt read it.
And if you take a look at the mxy thread, the feats i said weren't make believe

The Elseworlds, regular DCU, COIE, and DCA were all multiverses. Which Mxy destroyed.

Originally posted by xJLxKing
I've read it a while back, just because someone hada different core doesn't mean their didmt read it.
And if you take a look at the mxy thread, the feats i said weren't make believe
I know exactly the full extent of Mxy's Worlds Funnest feat, and there is absolutely no conclusive evidence to substantiate the ridiculous claim that his feats are better than every feat that Wanda(especially at her HoM levels) has ever achieved.

Originally posted by operator616
the omniverse definition differs, in LT's handbook it is stated that it encompasses megaverses, in quasar it's defined as being a continuum of multiverses, and basically every issue in new exiles defines the omniverse as being all possible universes.

in any case, it is definitely bigger than the multiverse, because we have universe like earth shadowline being outside the mutliverse, 2005 handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/5njhq1p.jpg?1

that's just one example, there's more.

mxy did destroy dc and rearrange it with a snap of fingers, that's true, but we also have wanda affect the entire omniverse with 3 words, avengers: children's crusade #6:

http://i.imgur.com/UJNblWj.jpg

btw that makes sense considering the core continuum designation numbers all earths throughout the omniverse (not just the multiverse), spiderman back in black

http://i.imgur.com/ANseCBk.jpg?1


and if we take into consideration what was shown in uncanny x-men #491, this would be at a completely ridiculous level.

Who do you see winning here?

Mxy ftw

Aren't there even more powerful beings than Mxy in DC, beings in even higher dimensions (6th, Mxy is from 5th dimension). That means when Mxy did his beast feat, he did it for all lower beings than him, higher were untouched by his feat (higher dimensions were untouched)?.

Every being and energy and dimensions in Marvel succumbed to Wanda when she was on rampage.


And what Mxy does in comic and talking to us, Impossible Man in Marvel does the same thing and he is lower than HOM Wanda.

In any case, Mxy doesn't have a better feat than Wanda, probably quite the contrary.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Aren't there even more powerful beings than Mxy in DC, beings in even higher dimensions (6th, Mxy is from 5th dimension). That means when Mxy did his beast feat, he did it for all lower beings than him, higher were untouched by his feat (higher dimensions were untouched)?.

Every being and energy and dimensions in Marvel succumbed to Wanda when she was on rampage.


And what Mxy does in comic and talking to us, Impossible Man in Marvel does the same thing and he is lower than HOM Wanda.

In any case, Mxy doesn't have a better feat than Wanda, probably quite the contrary.
Higher dimensional beings aren't necessarily more powerful. He explicitly destroyed everything in DC. Everything.

^
mxy destroyed all the numbered dimensions even the ones with fractions (with a second) and that was 30 pages before he wiped out everything:

http://i.imgur.com/Mtm7xop.jpg

it's an insane feat, considering what dimensions in DC are supposed to be.

@golgo13:

i was replying in regards to your comment when you said that mxy recreated dc with a snap of fingers, im even putting the chaos wave aside.

Also, mxy destroyed more than that, vertigo is a multiverse, lucifer #37

http://i.imgur.com/qYnOJ1z.jpg

each mirror resembles a universe, and how many mirrors are there? see for yourself

http://i.imgur.com/H7UopQl.jpg

this is also confirmed when we see an alternate version of cal, lucifer #39

http://i.imgur.com/95E4goS.jpg

don't forget that mxy also destroyed the 4th world, which has been pointed out to you before, is bigger than the multiverse (let me know if you need the scans in case you don't find them)

though you have to remember that marvel has countless multiverses, mutant-x #32

http://i.imgur.com/TzEl7En.jpg

and the multiverses (if we go by specific definitions, there are other definitions who contradict this, though it's the one i personally prefer) are located within megaverses:

LT's 2006 bio

http://i.imgur.com/TPSomFH.jpg?1

2005 handbook (both of them, already showed you the second one)

http://i.imgur.com/cldF2nP.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/5njhq1p.jpg?1

2007 handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/4GMWE1e.jpg?1

and like i said before, if we take into consideration what appeared in uncanny x-men #491 it would be ridiculous:

http://i.imgur.com/nmvbjBr.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YIOnJkU.jpg

all of reality according to context (what was stated in children's crusade #6, which i already posted) is the omniverse.

so you can judge for yourself, personally i see wanda taking this.

Lol, I've probably proven that Mxy destroyed infinitely more than a single multiverse a few dozen times(not joking.) Despite my efforts, several people always seem to act oblivious to the scale of Mxy's feats in WF, until I shut them up with scans.

You are doing a good job though, operator616. Keep it up.

Mxy wins

Just so people can see plainly the images I was asking for in the "Dr. Manhattan invades Marvel" thread as it basically turned into this conversation and i find it very interesting:

https://i.imgur.com/nmvbjBr.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YIOnJkU.jpg

And then later:

https://i.imgur.com/UJNblWj.jpg

It seems implied that her feat could have been "omniversal," but it's not nearly as certain

First, there's no need for over-inflated scans that mess up the page good friend.

But that aside. Beast is talking about de-powering mutants specifically.

But you must've overlooked the Strange scene you just posted

where he declares at the end her:

"Magic is woven through Everything. Welded to ALL There is"

----------------------------------------------------------------

Also, aside from the original HOM showings which showcase her power (chaos wave)
crashing into Otherworld, after sweeping several realities,
it bashed down the Starlight Citadel, which contains an Omniversal Nexus.
This caused all the realitieS connected to such to blend together as one,
later tearing all of them to bits as Roma warned.

Except for Otherworld, 616 which was engulfed in Wanda's warp when she altered the Earth,
and the "Ascension." (God?)
I also believe initially realms outside omniversal space-time were untouched like the WHR,
but in Roma's warning no dimension was safe.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway almost 2 years later, in Die by the Sword,
we learned what was obvious from HOM.

Her power that spilt out of 616 (chaos wave) tore the Omniverse to pieces,
and then it reverted itself and put everything back.

Of course, her power wasn't sentient so it wasn't going to remodel the Omniverse itself,
NO,
this was when Wanda uttered: "no more mutants."

Which was meant to put everything back to normality, with the exception of many mutants.

So in that uttered thought, she reverted 58163 back into 616,
and she restructured the Omniverse back to what it was before her power warped it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
First, there's no need for over-inflated scans that mess up the page good friend.

But that aside. Beast is talking about de-powering mutants specifically.

But you must've overlooked the Strange scene you just posted

where he declares at the end her:

"Magic is woven through Everything. Welded to ALL There is"

----------------------------------------------------------------

Also, aside from the original HOM showings which showcase her power (chaos wave)
crashing into Otherworld, after sweeping several realities,
it bashed down the Starlight Citadel, which contains an Omniversal Nexus.
This caused all the realitieS connected to such to blend together as one,
later tearing all of them to bits as Roma warned.

Except for Otherworld, 616 which was engulfed in Wanda's warp when she altered the Earth,
and the "Ascension." (God?)
I also believe initially realms outside omniversal space-time were untouched like the WHR,
but in Roma's warning no dimension was safe.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway almost 2 years later, in Die by the Sword,
we learned what was obvious from HOM.

Her power that spilt out of 616 (chaos wave) tore the Omniverse to pieces,
and then it reverted itself and put everything back.

Of course, her power wasn't sentient so it wasn't going to remodel the Omniverse itself,
NO,
this was when Wanda uttered: "no more mutants."

Which was meant to put everything back to normality, with the exception of many mutants.

So in that uttered thought, she reverted 58163 back into 616,
and she restructured the Omniverse back to what it was before her power warped it.

My bad I don't know how to make em smaller. I'll look it up next time. Anyway, I saw Strange reference "everything"and then Beast derive from that, that it "possibly" affected the "Omniverse"

I believe it may actually be the Die By the Sword development that people may have been referencing, which I have been asking to see. Do you recall which issue by any chance?

Originally posted by Quick Freeze

I saw Strange reference "everything"and then Beast derive from that, that it "possibly" affected the "Omniverse"
Beast is referring to the Mutants affected individually.

She definitely affected the entire Omniverse because it was torn to bits,

and someone had to fix that mess. Again, her power (chaos wave is NOT alive)

so undoubtedly, when Wanda lets loose her final spell
which was specifically designed to Put Everything Back her power affected.

It was her who put everything back,
since her conscious-less power was not gonna act out of its own volition.
Originally posted by Quick Freeze

I believe it may actually be the Die By the Sword development

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/41370464_CW_jaspers.jpg

https://s7d7.turboimg.net/t1/41370465_CW_jaspers2.jpg

That's the detail that the haters are missing, or purposely ignoring lol.

They continue to focus on the Mutant de-powering
but forget about Spatial-Temporal warping on an Omniversal scale
that needed to be remade/fixed at the end.

the chaos wave that she had no control of you mean? lol

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
the chaos wave that she had no control of you mean? lol

Hey but still! They state that it happened plain and simple. One might say the story is more interesting when the character wielding the most power in the history of it's company doesn't have emotional control over it, rather than an impish cartoon being able to just snap everything back and forth into existence.

It's too bad Bendis retconned that to not being the actual feat or whatever

yep it was retconned either way. some would like to ignore the retcons but they stand regardless

Originally posted by Quick Freeze

Hey but still! They state that it happened plain and simple.

One might say the story is more interesting when the character
wielding the most power in the history of it's company doesn't have
emotional control over it
Actually, it's true her power was simply pouring out of 616 without her knowledge
crashing everything it came across in the Omniverse.

But that's not what I've been detailing friend now is it?
No, I've been focusing on her REVERTING Everything Back to normal.

Reverting what exactly? An Omniverse torn to bits. Oh, I see.

That's absolute meticulous control on an Omniversal scale concerning space-time.

Seriously, the mutant de-powering is a joke in comparison.

I'm honestly having trouble wrapping my head around how one even "retcons an omniversal feat" as it should have affected all space and time but really I'm just procrastinating for a huge exam I should be studying for

EDIT
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually, it's true her power was simply pouring out of 616 without her knowledge
crashing everything it came across in the Omniverse.

But that's not what I've been detailing friend now is it?
No, I've been focusing on her REVERTING Everything Back to normal.

Reverting what exactly? An Omniverse torn to bits. Oh, I see.

That's absolute meticulous control on an Omniversal scale concerning space-time.

Seriously, the mutant de-powering is a joke in comparison.

Wait when did she do that??

because it was never omniversal in the first place per the retcon.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze

I'm honestly having trouble wrapping my head around how one even "retcons an omniversal feat"

as it should have affected all space and time
Retcons take place all the time.

It's not a big deal since here in KMC

if the OP specifies a Pre-retcon version of the character,

we can use their PRE-retcon feats.

So "HOM" Wanda is the Pre-retcon version of "Children Crusades" Wanda.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze

Wait when did she do that??
At the end when she utters: "no more mutants."

My friend, I explained all of this in precise detail. in the posts you've been replying to.

you really dont get it.

hom wanda IS childrens crusade wanda. same character. the retcon affects her across the board. per that retcon wandas feat in hom was NEVER omniversal. far from it.


good try trying to tweak the rules to suit you though

yeah... the title did not say pre-retcon HOM Wanda so....

LMAO I'm not arguing with anyone and I STILL concede

*throws towel*

I'll be back after a couple hours of exam study and maybe when I get through the subtle differences between specific psychotic disorders I'll understand this sh*t better

Originally posted by MrMind
yeah... the title did not say pre-retcon HOM Wanda so.... "pre retcon" is such a stupid battleboard thing anyway.

as far as comics are concerned there are no "pre retcon" characters. there is only the characters as they CURRENTLY are. using pre retcon characters on battleboards is just a way for desperate fanboys to make their pet characters seem stronger then they are in canon. so sad lol

@MrMind: Yeesh, we're discussing an off-topic subject right now.

Can we live?

OTHER members were arguing about this too, did you pitch in your frustration with them?

Of course not, at this point you've developed a purpose.

Are you going to also (like King Troll) start chasing me into threads
to throw a clueless jab at my post any chance u get?

You keep making a fool of yourself,
you should really think things through before coming at me again.

I'll give ya another chance at seriousness,
cause I still believe in my heart you're not a troll, like King Troll is,
but you're worrying me.

Still here. In the third post, the thread's creator specified this is "House of M" Wanda, who at the time was believed to have achieved a multiverse-spanning feat.

Then 2 years later, it was explained that she also rebuilt the omniverse.

Then in like 2015 Bendis said it was only 616.

Is this a retcon? A disagreement between different comic writers? Is this open to interpretation like the bible? Am I missing something?

ya thats a retcon.

in comics newer info trumps older info.

Ok so. Just for argument's sake, before the 2015 AvX retcon, but AFTER the DBTS development Mr. Master posted, in that 5-10 year sweet spot, Wanda had the arguably the biggest feat in the history of Marvel?

EDIT:

Also, in what issue was it actually retconned. I see in Uncanny X-men #13 by Kieron Gillen the UNIT tells the Lights that "No more mutants" made Phoenix angry. Is that what this is all based on? Or is there something else?

Was the retcon under the same writer?

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
Also, in what issue was it actually retconned. I see in Uncanny X-men #13 by Kieron Gillen the UNIT tells the Lights that "No more mutants" made Phoenix angry. Is that what this is all based on? Or is there something else? It was first retconned in Children's Crusade. Wanda's warp was still kept at potentially omniversal in scope, but we learned that her own power was not responsible for it, nor could she explicitly control it:
https://i.imgur.com/ZBf1vsL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LKoYJJX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6GYjaLa.jpg

Another example:
https://i.imgur.com/tZI2W8U.jpg

And another:
https://i.imgur.com/4RiMVny.jpg


Per that retcon, Wanda was unable to control the power she released during HoM. She essentially just unleashed said power in a moment of "psychological instability", with a relatively simplistic motive/directive in place(ie. "No more Mutants".... And whatever happened after that, happened(collaterally speaking.) She didn't at all intend for the omniverse to get warped or w/e.

*Also note that the power she was channeling there was NOT her own; it was the Life Force(a power she was only able to access in the first place thanks to help from Doom.)

Personally, I liked this retcon because it helped explain how Wanda was able to preform feats that were way beyond what she had ever displayed beforehand. In fact, without this added context, Wanda being able to preform universal/multiversal/omniversal feats makes absolutely no sense, imo. She never operated at a scale remotely close to that before HoM, nor has she done so since. Children's Crusade just fleshed out *how* she randomly became that powerful.

_______________________


The second retcon(the one implying that her warp was only global, and that Wanda herself was maybe Phoenix-level) happened in Avengers vs. X-Men.

Got it!

Wow I just got schooled so hard by everyone

Originally posted by Galan007
It was first retconned in Children's Crusade. Wanda's warp was still kept at potentially omniversal in scope, but we learned that her own power was not responsible for it, nor could she explicitly control it:
https://i.imgur.com/ZBf1vsL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LKoYJJX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6GYjaLa.jpg

Another example:
https://i.imgur.com/tZI2W8U.jpg

And another:
https://i.imgur.com/4RiMVny.jpg


Per that retcon, Wanda was unable to control the power she released during HoM. She essentially just unleashed said power in a moment of "psychological instability", with a relatively simplistic motive/directive in place(ie. "No more Mutants".... And whatever happened after that, happened(collaterally speaking.) She didn't at all intend for the omniverse to get warped or w/e.

*Also note that the power she was channeling there was NOT her own; it was the Life Force(a power she was only able to access in the first place thanks to help from Doom.)

Personally, I liked this retcon because it helped explain how Wanda was able to preform feats that were way beyond what she had ever displayed beforehand. In fact, without this added context, Wanda being able to preform universal/multiversal/omniversal feats makes absolutely no sense, imo. She never operated at a scale remotely close to that before HoM, nor has she done so since. Children's Crusade just fleshed out *how* she randomly became that powerful.

_______________________


The second retcon(the one implying that her warp was only global, and that Wanda herself was maybe Phoenix-level) happened in Avengers vs. X-Men. next response- "i dont care about these trivial retcons!!!!!! this is HOM wanda not childrens crusade wanda!!!!!!!!"

because according to a certain someone we are suppose to treat them as completely different characters

Actually Wanda's transformation to a reality warper didn't happen suddenly in HoM, it was gradually developed in Avengers vol 3 where they retconned her into a Chaos Magick wielder -- reality warping energies which Chthon imbued her with. Which goes hand in hand with the classical comics where we learned that Chthon had given her some unknown powers which she wasn't tapping into in any considerable way. This was the reason she was beyond all the other mutants. And they continuously referred to her being a reality warper throughout the series. This was several years before HoM. She performed several nifty feats too, but not on the scale of HoM. Which also kinda made sense since in the classic days her abilities were very vague. They were also described as "being able to achieve anything". But in that era she was nowhere near as powerful.

As I said, without this added context, Wanda being able to preform universal/multiversal/omniversal feats makes absolutely no sense.

Being ambiguously called a "reality warper" beforehand is one thing. Actually warping reality on that kind of scale out of nowhere is a completely different animal... And thanks to the Children's Crusade retcon, we know *how* she was able to randomly operate on such a level.

She did perform a couple. She was able to channel her powers and the avengers' through WM to overpower Morgan w/ twilight sword (who warped an entire universe). She also literally brought back wonder man from the dead (specifically attributed to her reality warping powers). She was also able to forcibly take control and merge the chaos/order aspects of inbetweener. Among several other things. She was quite clearly more powerful than her classic days where she, at best, managed to perform a time travel feat.

We knew before Children's Crusade why she became that powerful. It was Chthon who amped her when she was a baby, in HoM she fully tapped into that power. Children's crusade retconned that to life-force.

C'mon... Lets not pretend like her feat in HoM wasn't a massive outlier. It most certainly was.

It was an outlier. Im saying that there was always a reason for that outlier (Chthon amping her) even before the life-force retcon, because your original post seemed to imply that she did that under her own power.

Cool beans.

No I knew about the Chthon amp, but that generally was regarded as part of Wanda's power that she was at least in control of in Avengers v3... But per the Children's Crusade/Life Force retcon, it definitely wasn't part of her power, and she couldn't control it. That's what I was getting at in my post.

...And imo, the Life Force amp/retcon makes a hell of a lot more sense than the Chthon amp, given the scale of things. /shrug

In control of? I disagree, or rather i would agree that she had at best partial control but not full control nor did she tap into her full powers. Her full potential only manifested in HoM. That was the original intention at least.

I agree that Chthon is too weak to be such a powerful power source though. But then again it's the same thing with Dr strange who performs feats beyond the principalities he invokes upon to perform them.

Let me rephrase: she at least had conscious control of her Chthon-amped power to *some* extent in Avengers v3 when she started doing a little more high-end stuff... But conscious control went out the window when the Children's Crusade retcon happened.

Anyway, nice to see you posting again, op. Plan on sticking around at all, or are you just passing through?

Thanks. Ill stick around as long as im interested in debating, i guess. Although the glitches certainly don't help.

Originally posted by operator616
Thanks. Ill stick around as long as im interested in debating, i guess. Although the glitches certainly don't help.

Have you caught up on doomsday clock and justice league?

With JL yes.

I think i'll wait till doomsday clock finishes to read it.

Originally posted by operator616
With JL yes.

I think i'll wait till doomsday clock finishes to read it.

So, you think Cosmic Judges>>>>> Perpetua?

Yes. Which speaks volumes since i would rank Perpetua as beyond multiversal. The implication is that she's a legit omniversal power. At least until now.

Originally posted by Galan007
It was first retconned in Children's Crusade. Wanda's warp was still kept at potentially omniversal in scope, but we learned that her own power was not responsible for it, nor could she explicitly control it:
https://i.imgur.com/ZBf1vsL.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/LKoYJJX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6GYjaLa.jpg

Another example:
https://i.imgur.com/tZI2W8U.jpg

And another:
https://i.imgur.com/4RiMVny.jpg


Per that retcon, Wanda was unable to control the power she released during HoM. She essentially just unleashed said power in a moment of "psychological instability", with a relatively simplistic motive/directive in place(ie. "No more Mutants".... And whatever happened after that, happened(collaterally speaking.) She didn't at all intend for the omniverse to get warped or w/e.

*Also note that the power she was channeling there was NOT her own; it was the Life Force(a power she was only able to access in the first place thanks to help from Doom.)

Personally, I liked this retcon because it helped explain how Wanda was able to preform feats that were way beyond what she had ever displayed beforehand. In fact, without this added context, Wanda being able to preform universal/multiversal/omniversal feats makes absolutely no sense, imo. She never operated at a scale remotely close to that before HoM, nor has she done so since. Children's Crusade just fleshed out *how* she randomly became that powerful.

_______________________


The second retcon(the one implying that her warp was only global, and that Wanda herself was maybe Phoenix-level) happened in Avengers vs. X-Men.

Ok. "No more mutants" involves the last few pages of that major event. The entire story is centered around a reality warp preceeding the depowering of mutants and the affect on the Omniverse I believe preceeds the depowering of the mutants.

But your post seems to define her reality warp as solely the depowering of mutants. Her warp extends to the Kree Empire, so it was apparently beyond Earth.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Ok. "No more mutants" involves the last few pages of that major event. The entire story is centered around a reality warp preceeding the depowering of mutants and the affect on the Omniverse I believe preceeds the depowering of the mutants.

But your post seems to define her reality warp as solely the depowering of mutants. Her warp extends to the Kree Empire, so it was apparently beyond Earth.
Because initially it was only for depowering the mutants. Reality warping was added/retconned by Endangered Species and DBTS arcs two years later.