Religious Anecdotes

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Digi
Here's what this is:

It's a place to talk about everyday encounters or events from your own life that deal in some way with religion. We're all interesting people (haermm) and we like to talk religion. We undoubtedly have fun stuff to tell.

This isn't a place to post Chicken Soup For the Soul-esque stories to tout a particular belief system. Nor is it the place to attack the veracity of stories in order to further your own worldview.

Now, if you have an event from your life that, in the course of telling it, sends a clear message that you are or aren't a particular religion, that's fine. It would be impossible to avoid this. But I think (hope?) that we're all aware enough to realize the difference between sharing a story and proselytizing. The former is encouraged. The latter will be reported.

Feel free to add your own, or comment on others' stories.

....

Anyway, I'll start...

So today I was at a dinner following a church golf outing. It was a group my dad had belonged to for years, and many of his old friends were there. Good food, free beer, good times. So a Santa Claus stand-in (seriously, bowl full of jelly belly and a scruffy white beard) finds me at one point and starts chatting me up. This eventually leads to the question:
"Do you attend church here?"
"Oh, no. My family does but I don't."
Suddenly more serious: "Well you should."
I smile slightly and also try to avoid an eye-roll, because I see where it's going. "Uh, yeah. Thanks but no thanks."

It's always a fine line when this happens to me (and it has a few times). I enjoy religious discussion, but this was clearly unsolicited and he intended for it to be one-sided rather than an exchange of ideas. It's generally uncalled for, so I'm a bit annoyed when it happens and would love to go on the offensive, either with defending my privacy in religious decisions or in questioning his own practices and beliefs. On the other hand, I'm a pretty laid back dude who doesn't like offending others, and for the most part I have no problem with religion or its adherents. I've only really gone off once in my life, and the dude more than deserved it. But it's a recurring struggle with these things.

Anyway, I tried to remain congenial with Santa but eventually tried to trip him up. After some of his own brief proselytizing, he asked me, "who put you on this earth?"
"My parents," once again waiting for the inevitable response, accompanied by a slight head wag.
"God did."
"Really? How do you know that?" I asked, finally allowing myself a touch of irony. He just smiled and tapped his heart a few times. He's probably a real altruistic dude, and thought he was doing a great thing. So it's hard to be angry, but I was still annoyed.
I tapped my own heart. "Well I have this that says that that's wrong. How do we know which one of us is right?"
"You just have to look inside yourself and be able to give thanks for what you have." Ok, so I was done at that point. I had expected either an appeal to faith or a dodge, and got the latter, and didn't feel like continuing. I wanted to let him know I am atheist, because I don't think he had put it together, and thought I was a lapsed Christian who simply didn't practice anymore. It might have given him a shock. But I got myself out with some cliche lines and left.

So yeah, nothing profound, evil, funny, etc. But I've encountered this sort of thing enough to have it be something that I think about, because I'm always unsure of how to handle it. It's tempting to be a d*ck, but I would also feel bad about it more often than not.

If anyone has similar stories, feel free to share. Or completely unrelated ones, share those as well.

Digi
Boo!

embarrasment

King Kandy
Er, I remember in 8th grade I got in a huge fight with this Wicca girl who claimed Wicca had a ton of original aspects not share by any other religion. So we got into an argument where she'd try to come up with something, and id tell her X religion thought of it first. It was almost a bit scary how uneducated she seemed about religion, including her own.

She stuck away from me after that.

A similar argument I got into with this fundamentalist girl made her parents home school her...

Symmetric Chaos
Not a conversation, but there is an amusing though scathing review of Left Behind on the blog (or something, I'm not too down with intricacies of net lingo) slacktivist. The first few pages are pretty much what I expected. Then about five pages in it turns out that the reviewer himself is an evangelical Christian who believes in the literal resurrection of the body when Jesus returns.

I dunno, that just hit me completely out of left field.

Mindship
My uncle's father was an Orthodox Jew who went to temple every day to davin. One day, when he was old and finished praying, he laid down his prayer book, leaned back, closed his eyes and died.

Choosing your time and place, especially one which brings great comfort and meaning: nice way to go.

Grand-Moff-Gav
I was in Church sitting in the pews and a money collector sat near me, I didn't put anything in the bag and so he passed on...as he went down the pews he insulted people who didn't put money in. For the next few weeks I sat next to him, much to his anger, and attempted to discuss why it was wrong to force people into giving money. He repeatedly threatened to attack me or other things, on one occasion coming close to it.

However, after I moved onto the Altar I never got to sit next to him any more. I still see him around, not a very pleasant character.

Digi
That's messed up. Dude needs a talking-to from the pastor.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Digi

If anyone has similar stories, feel free to share. Or completely unrelated ones, share those as well.

A couple years ago my son witnessed something like that on his college campus. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church were there in force with their signs and bullhorns and telling people that they're all going to Hell and America is doomed like usual. And Shirley Phelps got torn up by a Hindu student. He started it by telling her that they also believe Jesus is divine (an avatar), so why are Christians like her so exclusive. She then said that Hindus are pagans, that they "commandeered" Jesus for their own purposes and that Gandhi is in Hell. He then said that there's actually only one God in Hinduism, all the "others" are representations of different attributes of the Creator, like the Trinity in Christianity or the 99 Names of God in Islam. He then added that Gandhi is closer to Jesus than Fred Phelps (her dad) could ever hope to be, and she went off the deep end. So basically, he totally and masterfully handled that crazy broad.

Digi
So I received a forward from a friend via email today. I don't see him very often, and he was among those who "expressed concern" (i.e. tried to re-convert me) when I became an atheist. The email included a chicken-soupy anecdote about a conversation between an atheist professor and a christian student, and is a defense of theism. I've seen it before, as I'm sure some of you have. The Christian is purportedly Albert Einstein, though besides being an appeal to authority I think we can agree that his theism (such as it was) never really bent toward mainstream Christianity in his adult life.

He's still a good guy, his attempted conversion those years ago was much more tactful than some, and I like hanging out with him. But the email seems particularly awkward. I have no idea how to respond. The premise of the story, of course, makes certain flawed assumptions about atheism, and is also very one-sided in its argument. I'd have no problem refuting it, but that's not the concern. I guess I just don't understand such...i dunno, transparent attempts at conversion. If I wanted to convert someone, I'd sit down with them and hash things out point by point in a discussion. I would never resort to anecdotal silliness that merely takes occasional swipes at the person instead of treating their worldview with proper respect.

So I'm not angry. Far from it, in fact. He's trying to do good, and while I disagree with the methods and am slightly annoyed by them, I respect the intent. I'm just not sure how to react in a way that presents my opinion on both the story and the email itself, but doesn't come off in a negative manner.

...not fishing for advice, btw, unless you guys feel so inclined. Just putting it out there as a personal anecdote, since that was the intent of this thread (both my stories have been attempted conversions...heh, I should try to branch out more).

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Digi
So I received a forward from a friend via email today. I don't see him very often, and he was among those who "expressed concern" (i.e. tried to re-convert me) when I became an atheist. The email included a chicken-soupy anecdote about a conversation between an atheist professor and a christian student, and is a defense of theism. I've seen it before, as I'm sure some of you have. The Christian is purportedly Albert Einstein, though besides being an appeal to authority I think we can agree that his theism (such as it was) never really bent toward mainstream Christianity in his adult life.

He's still a good guy, his attempted conversion those years ago was much more tactful than some, and I like hanging out with him. But the email seems particularly awkward. I have no idea how to respond. The premise of the story, of course, makes certain flawed assumptions about atheism, and is also very one-sided in its argument. I'd have no problem refuting it, but that's not the concern. I guess I just don't understand such...i dunno, transparent attempts at conversion. If I wanted to convert someone, I'd sit down with them and hash things out point by point in a discussion. I would never resort to anecdotal silliness that merely takes occasional swipes at the person instead of treating their worldview with proper respect.

So I'm not angry. Far from it, in fact. He's trying to do good, and while I disagree with the methods and am slightly annoyed by them, I respect the intent. I'm just not sure how to react in a way that presents my opinion on both the story and the email itself, but doesn't come off in a negative manner.

...not fishing for advice, btw, unless you guys feel so inclined. Just putting it out there as a personal anecdote, since that was the intent of this thread (both my stories have been attempted conversions...heh, I should try to branch out more).

Advice: (and you can ignore it if you like), Do not refer to the story at all, when you e-mail him back. Instead reminisce about the good old days, and ignore any of his attempts to engage in this kind of conversation. That is what I would do, in your shoes.

Alternate: if forced into it, you cloud point out that Einstein sent a letter to the president supporting the development of the atomic bomb, and that he regretted it later in life. This only goes to show that even Einstein is sometimes wrong.

Digi
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Advice: (and you can ignore it if you like), Do not refer to the story at all, when you e-mail him back. Instead reminisce about the good old days, and ignore any of his attempts to engage in this kind of conversation. That is what I would do, in your shoes.

Ha, I suppose I can try. I may not have that kind of restraint though. My KMC-trained religious debate reflex is strong.

wink

I also like the Einstein suggestion. It's a clever refutation, though I doubt I'll get into particulars of the story. It will hopefully suffice to say I disagree with it, and hopefully he'll leave it at that.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Digi
Ha, I suppose I can try. I may not have that kind of restraint though. My KMC-trained religious debate reflex is strong.

wink

Check out my alternate. big grin

{edit from digi - i did smile}

Mindship
Originally posted by Digi
...not fishing for advice, btw, unless you guys feel so inclined. Just putting it out there as a personal anecdote, since that was the intent of this thread (both my stories have been attempted conversions...heh, I should try to branch out more). Usually when I get into conversations/debates where the two sides never shall meet, sooner or later I tend to emphasize what I consider most important: mutual respect for difference of opinion. This is something both sides -- if of reasonable mind -- can agree with, and in a subtle way it's also saying, "So stop trying to convert me, since I won't be converted to your side any more than you will be to my side."

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Digi
So I received a forward from a friend via email today. I don't see him very often, and he was among those who "expressed concern" (i.e. tried to re-convert me) when I became an atheist. The email included a chicken-soupy anecdote about a conversation between an atheist professor and a christian student, and is a defense of theism. I've seen it before, as I'm sure some of you have. The Christian is purportedly Albert Einstein, though besides being an appeal to authority I think we can agree that his theism (such as it was) never really bent toward mainstream Christianity in his adult life.

He's still a good guy, his attempted conversion those years ago was much more tactful than some, and I like hanging out with him. But the email seems particularly awkward. I have no idea how to respond. The premise of the story, of course, makes certain flawed assumptions about atheism, and is also very one-sided in its argument. I'd have no problem refuting it, but that's not the concern. I guess I just don't understand such...i dunno, transparent attempts at conversion. If I wanted to convert someone, I'd sit down with them and hash things out point by point in a discussion. I would never resort to anecdotal silliness that merely takes occasional swipes at the person instead of treating their worldview with proper respect.

So I'm not angry. Far from it, in fact. He's trying to do good, and while I disagree with the methods and am slightly annoyed by them, I respect the intent. I'm just not sure how to react in a way that presents my opinion on both the story and the email itself, but doesn't come off in a negative manner.

...not fishing for advice, btw, unless you guys feel so inclined. Just putting it out there as a personal anecdote, since that was the intent of this thread (both my stories have been attempted conversions...heh, I should try to branch out more).

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

Robtard
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
A couple years ago my son witnessed something like that on his college campus. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church were there in force with their signs and bullhorns and telling people that they're all going to Hell and America is doomed like usual. And Shirley Phelps got torn up by a Hindu student. He started it by telling her that they also believe Jesus is divine (an avatar), so why are Christians like her so exclusive. She then said that Hindus are pagans, that they "commandeered" Jesus for their own purposes and that Gandhi is in Hell. He then said that there's actually only one God in Hinduism, all the "others" are representations of different attributes of the Creator, like the Trinity in Christianity or the 99 Names of God in Islam. He then added that Gandhi is closer to Jesus than Fred Phelps (her dad) could ever hope to be, and she went off the deep end. So basically, he totally and masterfully handled that crazy broad.

Ha, funny; well played. Still wish after he handed her, her ass. He'd have head-butted her in the ****.

Blinky
I once got involved in a mass "debate" (Christians and Jews versus Atheists) on my university campus. A day later I reflected upon how pointless and unproductive the "debate" was, I still shudder at the fact that I participated in such a load of pointless bullsh*t.

Digi
I teach music lessons, and one of my students (young girl) asked me what I was giving up for Lent. I can't impart her tone through words, but the innocence of the question was priceless because it was clear she considered there to be no alternative. So I smiled and told her I wasn't religious. Her response was "You mean like Jewish?" No, I clarified, just not religious at all. "You don't have to be a religion?!" she asked incredulously. The whole thing was cute. And I'm moderately happy I got to open her mind slightly to the world around her.

Haven't emailed the dude back yet from my earlier story. I'll likely add in a conclusion to it when I do.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

Excellent, thank you. I may attach this to my email, though I'll likely have to temper it lest it send the wrong message.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Digi
I teach music lessons, and one of my students (young girl) asked me what I was giving up for Lent. I can't impart her tone through words, but the innocence of the question was priceless because it was clear she considered there to be no alternative. So I smiled and told her I wasn't religious. Her response was "You mean like Jewish?" No, I clarified, just not religious at all. "You don't have to be a religion?!" she asked incredulously. The whole thing was cute. And I'm moderately happy I got to open her mind slightly to the world around her.

nuts I thought you were an English teacher!



Anyway, story of my own. For Christmas one year my grandfather gave me the Bahgavahd Gita with a card that read something like "to see what most of the world believes". Kind of a dick move, he was clearly hoping to annoy my mother, but it's an interesting book to have (I keep it next to my stolen Book of Mormon and compendiums of Greek and Norse mythology).


It's interesting how people think that religions are somehow total anathema to one another. Like if you put a Jew and a Christian in the same room they would be compelled to fight to the death or something. I remember mentioning in high school that I went to a Passover seder every other year and people were absolutely floored that I wasn't Jewish.

Digi
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
nuts I thought you were an English teacher!



Anyway, story of my own. For Christmas one year my grandfather gave me the Bahgavahd Gita with a card that read something like "to see what most of the world believes". Kind of a dick move, he was clearly hoping to annoy my mother, but it's an interesting book to have (I keep it next to my stolen Book of Mormon and compendiums of Greek and Norse mythology).


It's interesting how people think that religions are somehow total anathema to one another. Like if you put a Jew and a Christian in the same room they would be compelled to fight to the death or something. I remember mentioning in high school that I went to a Passover seder every other year and people were absolutely floored that I wasn't Jewish.

Lawl. Yeah, when I was young I remember that I used to think it was odd that my Catholic church had so many joint functions with the Presbyterians down the road. Same idea I guess, though your experience with it is a bit more widespread. But your gramps sounds cool.

And I do a bit of both. I'm talented.

wink

Robtard
Originally posted by Blinky
I once got involved in a mass "debate" (Christians and Jews versus Atheists) on my university campus. A day later I reflected upon how pointless and unproductive the "debate" was, I still shudder at the fact that I participated in such a load of pointless bullsh*t.

WTF, you had a bunch of Christians and Jews together and you didn't bedazzle them with this best religious joke? For shame.

-Joke

A Rabbi and a Priest are walking down the street discussing theology when a little boy runs by.

Priest says: "Hey, wanna go screw that little kid?"

Rabbi responds: "Screw him outta what?"

Mindship
Originally posted by Digi
So I smiled and told her I wasn't religious. Her response was "You mean like Jewish?"Oy. Goyim...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It's interesting how people think that religions are somehow total anathema to one another. Like if you put a Jew and a Christian in the same room they would be compelled to fight to the death or something. That was pre-Vatican II.

Ah. Good times.

overlord
may you live in interesting times x)

Digi
So I bought a zip-up hoodie the other day, that when zipped up forms a giant Autobot symbol.

And I'm going to leave a bar last night and zip it up. Two of my friends look at it and one looks at me and says, "That is awesome." It was a religious moment for me.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Digi
So I bought a zip-up hoodie the other day, that when zipped up forms a giant Autobot symbol.

And I'm going to leave a bar last night and zip it up. Two of my friends look at it and one looks at me and says, "That is awesome." It was a religious moment for me.

eek! The hoodie presthood awaits you. wink

Autokrat
As part of my Comparative Religions/Research in Sociology joint class, I had to observe a Synod Lutheran church service (I've been doing community service for them for the past two months.)

It was an interesting experience since I was raised in a more Charismatic fundamentalist setting and in comparison the Lutherans were fairly... well scripted almost.

In a way it was almost weird to be there. The only atheist surrounded by a bunch of people that believe the Bible is the innerant word of god and that everything in the Bible should be taken literally.

It was creepy.

Digi
Originally posted by Autokrat
As part of my Comparative Religions/Research in Sociology joint class, I had to observe a Synod Lutheran church service (I've been doing community service for them for the past two months.)

It was an interesting experience since I was raised in a more Charismatic fundamentalist setting and in comparison the Lutherans were fairly... well scripted almost.

In a way it was almost weird to be there. The only atheist surrounded by a bunch of people that believe the Bible is the innerant word of god and that everything in the Bible should be taken literally.

It was creepy.

I should go back to church at some point just for the experience of it as an atheist. I think the last time I seriously went I knew I wasn't Christian anymore but hadn't hashed out my new worldview yet. Anyway, fun story.

Autokrat
Originally posted by Digi
I should go back to church at some point just for the experience of it as an atheist. I think the last time I seriously went I knew I wasn't Christian anymore but hadn't hashed out my new worldview yet. Anyway, fun story.

It was somewhat awkward when I had to explain to people why I was there. I mean I couldn't just say, "Oh hey I'm getting the demographics of your church and writing a ten page academic report on it so it can be scientifically studied by my class and compared with data from other student teams."

I figured that would make them feel like a lab rat.

Although the most awkward part was explaining that I was an atheist. I was tempted to say agnostic since that has less of a "negative" connotation, but screw it. I wasn't going to shy around what I was. Even though several people tried to convince me the error of my ways and explain why Christianity was better than everything else.

Digi
Originally posted by Autokrat
It was somewhat awkward when I had to explain to people why I was there. I mean I couldn't just say, "Oh hey I'm getting the demographics of your church and writing a ten page academic report on it so it can be scientifically studied by my class and compared with data from other student teams."

I figured that would make them feel like a lab rat.

Although the most awkward part was explaining that I was an atheist. I was tempted to say agnostic since that has less of a "negative" connotation, but screw it. I wasn't going to shy around what I was. Even though several people tried to convince me the error of my ways and explain why Christianity was better than everything else.

My sister had to do something that was almost identical for her degree, and it involved going to a Christian Science church. They first tried to convert her then turned skeptical and a bit standoffish when she explained why she was there. She ended up agreeing to an interview with one of the church's leaders because they wanted to ensure that they weren't portrayed in a negative light. Sounded like controlling your press to me, but meh, it wasn't my assignment. My sister was undoubtedly more forgiving than I would have been in her report.

She's Catholic though, so there wasn't quite the shock reaction that atheism would receive. I've resorted to "non-religious" when I realize beforehand that there won't be ample opportunity to discuss it, or when the conversation will be very one-sided. Though I will admit to using the word atheist a few times before for the reaction it elicits....it amuses me.

lil bitchiness
I had an incident recently (or rather two). It's not religious per se, althought people who spoke to me obviously assumed I was something or other.

We were in a club few weeks ago, and I was sitting with my friends at a table (they were all French or Quebecois, and visibly so). Two people came up to me, two women and some of their friends, that stood behind them. They were agressively leaning over the table demanding to know if I was an effing Arab. I replied I was not. Then she said, ''you look like an Arab''. And left. What she meant to say was ''you look like a Muslim''.


The other time, I was waslking down St Cathrine with my friend from Lebanon, who was visibly Arab, and we got shouted at ''go home you effing terrorists''.
The thing is, they assumed we were Muslims, when ironically, neither of us are. My Lebanese friend is a Christian.

People are retards.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
We were in a club few weeks ago, and I was sitting with my friends at a table (they were all French or Quebecois, and visibly so). Two people came up to me, two women and some of their friends, that stood behind them. They were agressively leaning over the table demanding to know if I was an effing Arab. I replied I was not. Then she said, ''you look like an Arab''. And left. What she meant to say was ''you look like a Muslim''.

This assumes you're psychic and she's an idiot . . .

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
This assumes you're psychic and she's an idiot . . .

OMFG no way!

overlord
a wild moderator appears!

Autokrat
My class was having a debate on the influence on theists in society and why religious people are never expected to have to prove that a deity exists as opposed to demanding that the atheists prove them that they are wrong. Essentially why proving the negative had become the standard with which to enter debates.

Anyways, the debate went way off topic and I mentioned a research foll that showed that half of American's believed in young Earth Creationism and how I felt this was a good indicator that a large number of the US population really doesn't know what they believe. My argument was that if people really understood the evidence, they would realize that young Earth Creationism is an absurd and delusional belief.

This was something a mistake since I didn't realize that the only religious member of the class that we had, was a fundamentalist. He freaked and accused me of calling his beliefs delusional.

The debate kind of went downhill from there, although I refused to recant on my point. It was a damn higher institution of learning; I refuse to entertain creationism as a rational, cogent viewpoint.

Digi
Originally posted by Autokrat
My class was having a debate on the influence on theists in society and why religious people are never expected to have to prove that a deity exists as opposed to demanding that the atheists prove them that they are wrong. Essentially why proving the negative had become the standard with which to enter debates.

Anyways, the debate went way off topic and I mentioned a research foll that showed that half of American's believed in young Earth Creationism and how I felt this was a good indicator that a large number of the US population really doesn't know what they believe. My argument was that if people really understood the evidence, they would realize that young Earth Creationism is an absurd and delusional belief.

This was something a mistake since I didn't realize that the only religious member of the class that we had, was a fundamentalist. He freaked and accused me of calling his beliefs delusional.

The debate kind of went downhill from there, although I refused to recant on my point. It was a damn higher institution of learning; I refuse to entertain creationism as a rational, cogent viewpoint.

Awesome.

I dated a girl once who believed Oijia (sic?) boards were real. I was dumbfounded, and ended up accidentally insulting her as a result of my opinion on them. We didn't last much longer. Not exactly the same, but your story reminded me of that.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Autokrat
My class was having a debate on the influence on theists in society and why religious people are never expected to have to prove that a deity exists as opposed to demanding that the atheists prove them that they are wrong. Essentially why proving the negative had become the standard with which to enter debates.

Anyways, the debate went way off topic and I mentioned a research foll that showed that half of American's believed in young Earth Creationism and how I felt this was a good indicator that a large number of the US population really doesn't know what they believe. My argument was that if people really understood the evidence, they would realize that young Earth Creationism is an absurd and delusional belief.

This was something a mistake since I didn't realize that the only religious member of the class that we had, was a fundamentalist. He freaked and accused me of calling his beliefs delusional.

The debate kind of went downhill from there, although I refused to recant on my point. It was a damn higher institution of learning; I refuse to entertain creationism as a rational, cogent viewpoint.

It is telling that this person acted that way. I mean if someone in the class said the Earth was flat, would you get upset? No, not really... You are confident about the Earth being round. I think this fundamentalist in your class is not confident about his beliefs. I think that is why he got upset.

Autokrat
The debate ended on something of an ugly note, especially when we started talking about faith.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Autokrat
The debate ended on something of an ugly note, especially when we started talking about faith.

Did you know that faith is a code word for "I'm right, and you are wrong"? It's no wonder the debate ended on faith. What you have to do is not let them get away with that by pointing out where faith goes wrong (like Unicorns, and the Easter Bunny).

One Free Man
Rabbi, priest, and minister are all in the forest and have a competition to see who's the best at what they do. Finally they decide that in order to prove there 'leet religion skills, they will all go out and find an animal and convert it.

They all meet the next day.

the priest says: Well, I went out on my quest and found a rabbit. I read him the catechism and he'll be attending mass this Sunday.

Everyone agrees that that was a success.

The Minister says: Ha, I found a squirrel and got him to sit still while I read from the bible and finally he let me baptise him.

Everyone agrees that that was a success.

The Rabbi is in a wheel chair and neck brace typing everything he says Stephen Hawking style.

"What happened?" everyone asks.

The rabbi's speaker says in it's slow robotic voice:
I went out and I met a bear in the woods and......

mayyybeeeee I shouldn't have started with the Circumcision.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by One Free Man
Rabbi, priest, and minister are all in the forest and have a competition to see who's the best at what they do. Finally they decide that in order to prove there 'leet religion skills, they will all go out and find an animal and convert it.

They all meet the next day.

the priest says: Well, I went out on my quest and found a rabbit. I read him the catechism and he'll be attending mass this Sunday.

Everyone agrees that that was a success.

The Minister says: Ha, I found a squirrel and got him to sit still while I read from the bible and finally he let me baptise him.

Everyone agrees that that was a success.

The Rabbi is in a wheel chair and neck brace typing everything he says Stephen Hawking style.

"What happened?" everyone asks.

The rabbi's speaker says in it's slow robotic voice:
I went out and I met a bear in the woods and......

mayyybeeeee I shouldn't have started with the Circumcision.

SPAM

One Free Man
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
SPAM Wrong. it's religious, and an anecdote.

It's also hilarious.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by One Free Man
Wrong. it's religious, and an anecdote.

It's also hilarious.

And it's in the wrong thread.

Digi
Right. We have a religion humor thread. That would be the appropriate place for it. Understandable mistake though.

Deja~vu
Well I'll keep this story short.

I grew up in a very religious family and decided for myself to leave the faith. Years later I found like others that life can have hardships. I was in the middle of one when it seems the whole church I had belonged to and family members were contacting me stating that my bad luck was Jesus procecuting me for leaving the faith. I would say back to them, but it is the religious people that are doing this to me, you know the Jesus people. Why would the Jesus people of love pull such awful nasty, rude, illegal, deceptive things to me? Is this what Jesus is about, I said? One person who just happened to be my brother would just laugh at me and tell me it was all my fault for leaving the church and that I deserved everything I got. Well as Karma would have it, a year later he went through the same thing himself. I didn't say anything to him, but I sure felt like saying, "Maybe you weren't a GOOD ENOUGH christian, eh? Maybe Jesus is punishing you."

That's what you get for judging other people.

Oh well, I left out a lot of detail, but oh well point made, I think.

Digi
which reminds me, I have to email back the dude who had the conversion-via-email attempt from one of my earlier stories.

Digi
Thanks for the story debbie. Your former Christian group seems much more vitriolic than mine, though I wasn't exempt entirely from negativity when I left.

Anyway, as a follow-up to this, my reply:

....

"Hey buddy. I had seen the story before, though not in that exact form. Einstein, it seems, is a popular figure for use in such stories:
http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

But in any case, I hope all's well with you and {omitted}. I think it's been since {} last year that I saw you last, when we watched a game after {}. If you're ever in town with some time on your hands, drop me a line and we'll hang out.

Peace!
-{}"

....

...with certain omissions for privacy purposes.

I couldn't resist using Adam_PoE's link about the story. It was just too delicious not to use, though I did try to stay as respectful as possible.

Wild Shadow
when i was 5 or 6 yrs old my grandpa woke me in the middle of the night so he could talk to me. he told me he loved me and he would always be there for me and watch over me. i smiled gave him a hug and he told me to go back to sleep, so i did.

woke up next morning being hyperactive out of my room screaming about where was grandpa that i was happy he had come to visit us.. everyone was in the living room crying and i upset ppl b/c i told them grandpa woke me to say hi when he had arrived at night.

more ppl started crying and others were upset with me and very angry with what i had said. turned out my grandpa had passed away that same night thousand miles away from where we lived.


i got another good story.

Deja~vu
When I was 12 I was bit on the face by a dog and got stiches. I was told that god did it cause I was a bad girl. Why would god do that? blink


Oh, now I understand. god = dog?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Deja~vu
When I was 12 I was bit on the face by a dog and got stiches. I was told that god did it cause I was a bad girl. Why would god do that? blink


Oh, now I understand. god = dog?

homer because you were a bad girl.

Deja~vu
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
homer because you were a bad girl.

I was also told that I didn't have a soul. That's not a nice thing to tell a 9 year old. mad

WTF. Maybe they're right. eek!

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Deja~vu
I was also told that I didn't have a soul. That's not a nice thing to tell a 9 year old. mad

WTF. Maybe they're right. eek!

The only soul that anyone really has is on the bottom of their shoe

Deja~vu
Well then in that case I have 2. smart

Ms.Marvel
youre so cute

Wild Shadow
Originally posted by Deja~vu
When I was 12 I was bit on the face by a dog and got stiches. I was told that god did it cause I was a bad girl. Why would god do that? blink


Oh, now I understand. god = dog? i was also bit in the face by my wolf/dog and had to get stitches you and i have so much in common.. wanna get married ? maybe its fate unless u got hideously scarred and ur ugly and have no soul. smile

Deja~vu
Oops....must be the shrooooms

Deja~vu
Originally posted by Deja~vu
blink

Who needs a soul. I got rythum and blues.. Much different from black and blues laughing out loud laughing

Autokrat

Wild Shadow
well lets see some of ur writing so we can judge for ourselfs

Autokrat
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
well lets see some of ur writing so we can judge for our self

Then I'd lose my first rights. Think of it this way.

My parents are devout Silver Age comics enthusiasts and I'm into Dark Age comics (the good ones that were simply immature attempts at realism.)

King Kandy

Autokrat
Originally posted by King Kandy
Why do you care, you're 20 so you're emancipated... what are they going to cut your life line if you don't stop writing "edgy" stories?

They pay for school and help me out with a lot of other stuff. Economically I'd find it very difficult to continue without their support.

Ms.Marvel
why does it even matter if hes twenty or id he depends on them or not KK? its never cool to have your parents essentially call you an abomination... you've gotta be pretty unfeeling to not be affected by that, imo

King Kandy
Originally posted by Autokrat
They pay for school and help me out with a lot of other stuff. Economically I'd find it very difficult to continue without their support.
So you're saying, if you don't stop writing dark stories, they will cut your college tuition etc. That is probably the biggest example of a "douche move" i've ever heard in my life.

Autokrat
Originally posted by King Kandy
So you're saying, if you don't stop writing dark stories, they will cut your college tuition etc. That is probably the biggest example of a "douche move" i've ever heard in my life.

They see it as a reflection of my "soul." If I can write dark stories I must be a dark and disgusting person. They haven't outright said they will cut funding yet, but considering how much I rely on them and how seriously pissed they are.

It's very stressful.

King Kandy
lol. You should get them published and make millions. That'd show them.

Digi
I assume you have, but have you just tried explaining how exploring darker motifs doesn't mean you support or emulate them. How the heck do your parents read your college writing anyway? Mine haven't seen a thing I've written since middle school, unless I specifically showed them.

Anyway, you could always suck it up for a few years, tell them what they want to hear, then do your own thing once you're financially dependant.

Red Nemesis
Originally posted by Deja~vu
I was also told that I didn't have a soul. That's not a nice thing to tell a 9 year old. mad

WTF. Maybe they're right. eek!
Were you a ginger?

Gingers have no souls.

Autokrat
Originally posted by Digi
I assume you have, but have you just tried explaining how exploring darker motifs doesn't mean you support or emulate them. How the heck do your parents read your college writing anyway? Mine haven't seen a thing I've written since middle school, unless I specifically showed them.

Anyway, you could always suck it up for a few years, tell them what they want to hear, then do your own thing once you're financially dependant.

They read my email because they have access to my student account (and have to send money over the internet to pay for college stuff), so they keep tabs on my private correspondence with my friends. Most of the time they leave me alone so I didn't think much of it when I sent the email with the document in it.

Nothing I can really do about it since they have the money.

Wild Shadow
okay 1st off i recommend you learn everything you can about ur parents belief ann then turn it around on them... second open up a different email account on yahoo or google to keep them from prying...

second i take it ur a suburbia white kid which explains a lot and i mean a lot...

your an adult start acting like one and when you talk to them talk like one make tjhem feel like they are ignorant children and you have already surpassed them by leaps and bounds.

talk about forgiveness understanding supporting ur children and most importantly how psychologically harmful it can be to force some one to repress once creativity or emotions for the benefit of another.. also most importantly ask them what would jesus do?

would he abandon you or call you names and belittle you for ur artistic expression....

tell them that as ur parents you love them even when you dont agree with them but you would never think less of them as they have you b/c you would not want to be judged as they have judged you by another higher power...

Mindship
Originally posted by Autokrat
They see it as a reflection of my "soul." If I can write dark stories I must be a dark and disgusting person. They haven't outright said they will cut funding yet, but considering how much I rely on them and how seriously pissed they are.
Write a story based on this set of circumstances (with some embelleshment, I imagine it might lend itself to a dark story). The emotions you're feeling are real and immediate: let them come through. When you're financially independent, publish it. Even if that means a few years from now, great. You'll have all that time to polish and refine your story.

As they say, write what you know.

SamZED
Here's a short dialogue I had that really annoyed me. I was at home when the phone rang.

Me: Hello.
Female voice: Hello! Im calling to talk to you about Jesus! Our lord and savior!
Me: Um.. sorry, we're not christians.
The voice: Oh.. um... (5 seconds of silence) Well, it's not too late for you yet! You...
Me: (interrupting) Uh-huh. Ok. Bye-bye. (I hung up)

This is the first time someone tried to convert me with a phone call. What did she expect really? I remember that pissed me off.

Digi
Originally posted by SamZED
Here's a short dialogue I had that really annoyed me. I was at home when the phone rang.

Me: Hello.
Female voice: Hello! Im calling to talk to you about Jesus! Our lord and savior!
Me: Um.. sorry, we're not christians.
The voice: Oh.. um... (5 seconds of silence) Well, it's not too late for you yet! You...
Me: (interrupting) Uh-huh. Ok. Bye-bye. (I hung up)

This is the first time someone tried to convert me with a phone call. What did she expect really? I remember that pissed me off.

This seems to be symptomatic of a lot of attempted conversions. They're over the phone, via email attachments (both of which I've experienced), I've seen Bible verses written onto Birthday cards intended for an atheist friend of mine. In other words, the attempts are shallow. I can never really figure out i they actually think that such basic attempts will do anything, or if they refrain from a full attempt for various reasons (afraid to insult the person, too lazy, etc.).

I don't prostelytize for the simple reason that there usually isn't enough time or the right format in which to do so. Well, that, and I also don't really care what other people believe. It's not an affront to me if someone believes in God. But I am more than willing to challenge the beliefs of others, but I never pretend that it's something I can do in a short, casual conversation or soundbite-esque story. My "challenges" have been few and far between, because I realize that most religious discussions I have will not afford me the time to have any impact, so I allow them to be one-sided for the other person involved.

Now, what I have found is that many peoples' religion faith is an emotional truth. In other words, they "feel" God's presence...they don't need to justify His existence to themselves logically. That approach is nonexistent, because it's incompatible with how they experience their beliefs. And their faith is tested when something bad happens, and they lose tha warm emotional connection with their deity. So in that sense, I can partially understand such approaches to conversion. Because for someone who believes/disbelieves based on emotion, the need to feel "saved" or "chosen" or "infinitely loved" can be a powerful draw. And I don't even mean to imply that such people are unintelligent. They can run the gamut of intellgence. I just think that those who approach religious experience in such a way are the audience of your phone caller.

Sappho
Originally posted by Digi
Here's what this is:

It's a place to talk about everyday encounters or events from your own life that deal in some way with religion. We're all interesting people (haermm) and we like to talk religion. We undoubtedly have fun stuff to tell.

This isn't a place to post Chicken Soup For the Soul-esque stories to tout a particular belief system. Nor is it the place to attack the veracity of stories in order to further your own worldview.

Now, if you have an event from your life that, in the course of telling it, sends a clear message that you are or aren't a particular religion, that's fine. It would be impossible to avoid this. But I think (hope?) that we're all aware enough to realize the difference between sharing a story and proselytizing. The former is encouraged. The latter will be reported.

Feel free to add your own, or comment on others' stories.

....

Anyway, I'll start...

So today I was at a dinner following a church golf outing. It was a group my dad had belonged to for years, and many of his old friends were there. Good food, free beer, good times. So a Santa Claus stand-in (seriously, bowl full of jelly belly and a scruffy white beard) finds me at one point and starts chatting me up. This eventually leads to the question:
"Do you attend church here?"
"Oh, no. My family does but I don't."
Suddenly more serious: "Well you should."
I smile slightly and also try to avoid an eye-roll, because I see where it's going. "Uh, yeah. Thanks but no thanks."

It's always a fine line when this happens to me (and it has a few times). I enjoy religious discussion, but this was clearly unsolicited and he intended for it to be one-sided rather than an exchange of ideas. It's generally uncalled for, so I'm a bit annoyed when it happens and would love to go on the offensive, either with defending my privacy in religious decisions or in questioning his own practices and beliefs. On the other hand, I'm a pretty laid back dude who doesn't like offending others, and for the most part I have no problem with religion or its adherents. I've only really gone off once in my life, and the dude more than deserved it. But it's a recurring struggle with these things.

Anyway, I tried to remain congenial with Santa but eventually tried to trip him up. After some of his own brief proselytizing, he asked me, "who put you on this earth?"
"My parents," once again waiting for the inevitable response, accompanied by a slight head wag.
"God did."
"Really? How do you know that?" I asked, finally allowing myself a touch of irony. He just smiled and tapped his heart a few times. He's probably a real altruistic dude, and thought he was doing a great thing. So it's hard to be angry, but I was still annoyed.
I tapped my own heart. "Well I have this that says that that's wrong. How do we know which one of us is right?"
"You just have to look inside yourself and be able to give thanks for what you have." Ok, so I was done at that point. I had expected either an appeal to faith or a dodge, and got the latter, and didn't feel like continuing. I wanted to let him know I am atheist, because I don't think he had put it together, and thought I was a lapsed Christian who simply didn't practice anymore. It might have given him a shock. But I got myself out with some cliche lines and left.

So yeah, nothing profound, evil, funny, etc. But I've encountered this sort of thing enough to have it be something that I think about, because I'm always unsure of how to handle it. It's tempting to be a d*ck, but I would also feel bad about it more often than not.

If anyone has similar stories, feel free to share. Or completely unrelated ones, share those as well. WTF? lol shit like that happens to me ALL the time, but its just annoying as hell when you get a dick instead of some passive-aggressive "nice" guy lmao.

once at my school i was talking to my friends jorge and timmy, and we started on the subject of religion. i asked if they go to church, they both said no, then i asked if they believed in god, and they said yea. I asked why (in a polite manner) and they said they always did, it was they way they were raised, that they had to and always would, etc. etc. Eventually after beating around the bush for a while i got out the point that i was an atheist, and they both looked at my like i was crazy. One of them actually didnt look like he wanted to talk to me anymore. timmy asked me "how do you think we got here?' i said "i dont know for sure, but i dont think its god and i would put more money on the big bang" and he actually said "isnt the big bang the thing that put the earth together?" and i couldnt help but laugh. The fact that these ignorant little kids were judging me, especially when they didnt know what the hell they were talking about just got me heated.

Sappho
Originally posted by Digi
This seems to be symptomatic of a lot of attempted conversions. They're over the phone, via email attachments (both of which I've experienced), I've seen Bible verses written onto Birthday cards intended for an atheist friend of mine. In other words, the attempts are shallow. I can never really figure out i they actually think that such basic attempts will do anything, or if they refrain from a full attempt for various reasons (afraid to insult the person, too lazy, etc.).

I don't prostelytize for the simple reason that there usually isn't enough time or the right format in which to do so. Well, that, and I also don't really care what other people believe. It's not an affront to me if someone believes in God. But I am more than willing to challenge the beliefs of others, but I never pretend that it's something I can do in a short, casual conversation or soundbite-esque story. My "challenges" have been few and far between, because I realize that most religious discussions I have will not afford me the time to have any impact, so I allow them to be one-sided for the other person involved.

Now, what I have found is that many peoples' religion faith is an emotional truth. In other words, they "feel" God's presence...they don't need to justify His existence to themselves logically. That approach is nonexistent, because it's incompatible with how they experience their beliefs. And their faith is tested when something bad happens, and they lose tha warm emotional connection with their deity. So in that sense, I can partially understand such approaches to conversion. Because for someone who believes/disbelieves based on emotion, the need to feel "saved" or "chosen" or "infinitely loved" can be a powerful draw. And I don't even mean to imply that such people are unintelligent. They can run the gamut of intellgence. I just think that those who approach religious experience in such a way are the audience of your phone caller.
but thats even worse imo, an intelligent person being close minded rather than an unintelligent person not understanding or being ignorant :/

Digi
I have a co-worker who is born-again, and was an atheist a few years back. Apparently he used to scoff at religious references, and at one point after the switch they had to tell him to stop posting religious material to the organization's facebook.

So yeah, that's the story.

I'm looking forward to the "I'm an atheist" reveal though. Should end up creating some interesting dynamics.

The MISTER
When I was a kid a Jewish kid moved in next door to us, and I'll never forget being surprised when he told me that jews don't have to get saved cause they're born that way. I remember thinking even back then that it seemed a little arrogant, cause he was a little badass.

red g jacks
i'm usually not very outspoken about my beliefs in real life because of the reaction it typically gets from people. i've even felt compelled to say i believed in god just to make other people happy. this one cashier i had at walmart, some jamaican lady, was humming happily to herself as she rang up my items. i smiled at her and she asked me, completely at random, are you a believer? i was caught off guard and not sure i heard her right, so i said come again? and she asked me more directly, do you believe in the lord? she looked too happy for me to say no. for some reason i just said yes, i believe in my own version but i'm not a church goer. she said ah well as long as you have the belief, that is what is important. maybe some day the church part will come. i just said maybe and left it at that. i felt that had i been honest i might have ruined her good mood. if god can make her happy while working as a cashier at walmart then more power to her.

on the flip side to that, this easter i had a few random people try to convert me. it seems they were on the prowl this holiday season. now while i didn't want to express my beliefs to the happy cashier for whatever reason, if people come up to me and blatantly proselytize then i love to give them my honest views. i find that these people are much more likely to engage in a serious discussion on religion than the average believer. they take their religion seriously enough to go out and try to convert others, and so i don't see any reason to hold back in that case.

the most notable guy was a jehovas witness. jehovas are probably my favorite people to discuss religion with. they never seem to get offended at my objections towards their belief system, which is something i can really respect. i have yet to ever meet a thin skinned jehova. probably from all the abuse they're used to getting thrown at them while going door to door.

the guy strikes up a conversation with me while i'm sitting in my van outside walmart after work (i used to work there until very recently; overnight stock shift). my shift had just ended, it was early in the morning and i was smoking a cigar, about to leave when he comes up to my window and says he wants to talk about god. i say alright, lets hear what you got. we ended up debating everything from the supposed perfection of human anatomy, to evolution, to whether or not war or violence can ever be considered justifiable (he insisted that jehovas were true followers of the lord because they reject violence in every form regardless of the circumstance), to the curse of canaan and its racial implications, to whether premarital sex or homosexuality has any moral implications, and many other arguments that i'm probably forgetting. we went back and forth like that for maybe 45 minutes to an hour. at the end of it all he asked me for my email address and said he'd like to discuss this again some time, and that he respected my honesty. he was not at all mad that i didn't want to join his church. then he hopped into a rusted chevy sedan with his wife in the drivers seat and they drove away. that really impressed me for some reason. this was on the thursday before easter.

the next night, on good friday, i got approached while actually working inside walmart, this time by a couple, and once again completely at random. i think they have some sort of built in radar that detects non-believers.

the couple didn't tell me what church they were from, they pretended to be striking up a random conversation which would conveniently lead to jesus christ. they weren't nearly as subtle as they hoped to be.

the woman started out: she asked me what would i think if i committed a crime, and then my friend opted to go to prison in my place. i said i would think that's wrong. she said but what would you think about your friend? i said i would think that he is crazy. she said but it would take a pretty good friend to do something like that, would it not? i said maybe he was a good friend, but i certainly wasn't a good friend for taking the offer.

at this point the man interjected, and he asked have you ever stolen? i said of course. have you ever lied? i said of course, all the time. they laughed at that. then they got to the point: everybody lies. most people steal at one point, or commit numerous other sins. jesus was my friend. only he could redeem me for my sins, and he had opted to take his punishment in my place because he loves me. and that his offer applied to all mankind.

i thought about that for a second. so let me get this straight, i said to them: what you're telling me is that the entire human race are a bunch of theives and liars. yes, that's right they said. but jesus loves us anyway, and was willing to give his life in order to save us from the punishment we rightfully deserve. yes, that's exactly it they said. so i replied: what the hell is wrong with him? they bid me good day and walked away.

Digi
That's funny.

I wish more people randomly walked up to me to discuss religion. I'd be tickled. I even look relatively harmless.

King Kandy
I live in a place with a huge atheist population. The moderate christians just keep to themselves because it really isn't something they want to start trouble over. As a result, the only christians who proselytize are the hard-core fundamentalists, and I shy away from talking to them because it usually degenerates very quickly. Anyway, this lead to a story recently:

When I went to school, I knew an ultra-fundy girl who I would constantly get into fights with (which the teacher encouraged). We even had an in-class debate over abortion where she actually started crying because I showed how basically every claim she made was wrong, and she desperately wanted to convince me but I was just logically running rings around her.

Anyway, I started seeing her recently, and stayed away, because I figured she was the same nut she always was, and didn't want to start anything. But after months of this, I overheard her and apparently she's an atheist now (or at least way more moderate). What made her change? Her mother apparently thought that her headaches were a sign of demonic possession. That's what did the trick.

Digi
Lol, so crazy got scared straight by even crazier? That's a special brand of irony there.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Lucius
They read my email because they have access to my student account (and have to send money over the internet to pay for college stuff), so they keep tabs on my private correspondence with my friends. Most of the time they leave me alone so I didn't think much of it when I sent the email with the document in it.

Nothing I can really do about it since they have the money.

Oh, I can help with that. If only I had found your post a year ago.


http://mail.google.com

You're welcome anyways.

ADarksideJedi
People always look for the next best thing.They are bought up to one type of Religion and then go shopping for something else because they disargee with it for what ever reason.I personally think that is pretty sad.

Digi
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
People always look for the next best thing.They are bought up to one type of Religion and then go shopping for something else because they disargee with it for what ever reason.I personally think that is pretty sad.

Depends. Seems to me that if you disagreed with a religion, you shouldn't stay with it, and if another makes more sense, you should adopt some of its ideas.

Things like this are generally only sad to people of a particular religion talking about those who don't believe the same. There's nothing inherently bad about it.

This also has very little bearing on this thread, but meh.

King Kandy
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
People always look for the next best thing.They are bought up to one type of Religion and then go shopping for something else because they disargee with it for what ever reason.I personally think that is pretty sad.
Why is that sad? That seems like a great idea to me. If you hate your religion why would you want to stick with it?

Bardock42
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
People always look for the next best thing.They are bought up to one type of Religion and then go shopping for something else because they disargee with it for what ever reason.I personally think that is pretty sad.

Do you think so too about children that got brought up with fundamentalist Islam? Or should they change their religion?

ADarksideJedi
Because once you move on you just keep on moving to the next one and the next until you don't believe in anything or you go back to the first one because it was always the true one for you.

Digi
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Because once you move on you just keep on moving to the next one and the next until you don't believe in anything

Not necessarily. In fact, "don't believe in anything" is sort of a null term anyway. Everyone believes something, regardless of whether or not it falls into an accepted religion.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
or you go back to the first one because it was always the true one for you.

You using statistical data here, or talking from personal experience? It also still doesn't answer the question of why it's bad to question your beliefs, or adopt others that make more sense to you. You act like it's a horrible thing when it's not.

King Kandy
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
Because once you move on you just keep on moving to the next one and the next until you don't believe in anything or you go back to the first one because it was always the true one for you.
Based on what? I know lots of people who switched religions, and then stayed with their new religion for the rest of their lives. You are totally wrong.

Based on this logic, I take it you would be against converting people to christianity? Since you think they will inevitably leave it.

King Kandy
In highschool, I had a teacher who was also a buddhist monk. He was a very nice guy and I enjoyed talking to him. He always told interesting things about his experiences training in Japan where he lived for much of his life. But the strangest thing I recalled was a particular story. He said that once after deep meditation outdoors he opened his eyes and saw a demon. It looked like a "hole" in the universe, basically the silhouette of a man. He said he felt like it was malevolent, though it simply walked around for a while before eventually walking away.

Digi
Did he believe it was a demon, or a side effect of his meditation?

Somewhat related to a recent story I told (see "Ghost Stories" thread) there's a ghost that's supposed to be giving me a visit in the coming months where I work. I have bosses and coworkers who are convinced that it will happen (especially since I sneered and said "there's no dead Indian in here" at one point). Seriously though, Indian burial ground stories? He's not buried there, but he died in the place in like 1890. I think they'd be better off going with a less frequented stereotype...either that, or American Indians have been taking lessons from Qui-Gonn more than the rest of us.

Should be fun. Next time I'm alone I'm going to ask for a sign.

King Kandy
He had a position that I would basically describe as saying that was an artificial distinction. Of course, it is very in-depth... he actually has a 3 part lecture online somewhat related (that is, whether the mythological elements in buddhist writings are "real"wink

Mindship
Originally posted by Digi
Did he believe it was a demon, or a side effect of his meditation?
Originally posted by King Kandy
He had a position that I would basically describe as saying that was an artificial distinction.
This guy sounds like he knows his stuff. As I understand it, it comes down to what the meditator recognizes/acknowledges as "self" or "other."

King Kandy
That's what he said, he said basically "From a buddhist perspective, I wouldn't say that demon was anything outside of myself." But another part of his beliefs were that the world as we see it is illusory, so that demon was just as "real" as anything else he saw.

As far as the "side effect", I think that's true as well; Obviously, he wouldn't have seen that if he was just out and about, but he's the most intense meditator I have ever met. He was from the Soto school which emphasizes sitting meditation and he would do hours and hours straight. Apparently he has had many visionary experiences due to this technique but that was the most "standout" one.

Mindship
Sounds like he could access his dreaming process.
I also like how the 'demon' appeared as man-shaped darkness. Reminds me of the Jungian shadow.
Hours and hours? I'm good with minutes and minutes.

King Kandy
Well, different strokes for different folks. monastic training of that style emphasizes great amounts of meditation. If you're a lay follower there is no need for that much.

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