It's a place to talk about everyday encounters or events from your own life that deal in some way with religion. We're all interesting people () and we like to talk religion. We undoubtedly have fun stuff to tell.
This isn't a place to post Chicken Soup For the Soul-esque stories to tout a particular belief system. Nor is it the place to attack the veracity of stories in order to further your own worldview.
Now, if you have an event from your life that, in the course of telling it, sends a clear message that you are or aren't a particular religion, that's fine. It would be impossible to avoid this. But I think (hope?) that we're all aware enough to realize the difference between sharing a story and proselytizing. The former is encouraged. The latter will be reported.
Feel free to add your own, or comment on others' stories.
....
Anyway, I'll start...
So today I was at a dinner following a church golf outing. It was a group my dad had belonged to for years, and many of his old friends were there. Good food, free beer, good times. So a Santa Claus stand-in (seriously, bowl full of jelly belly and a scruffy white beard) finds me at one point and starts chatting me up. This eventually leads to the question:
"Do you attend church here?"
"Oh, no. My family does but I don't."
Suddenly more serious: "Well you should."
I smile slightly and also try to avoid an eye-roll, because I see where it's going. "Uh, yeah. Thanks but no thanks."
It's always a fine line when this happens to me (and it has a few times). I enjoy religious discussion, but this was clearly unsolicited and he intended for it to be one-sided rather than an exchange of ideas. It's generally uncalled for, so I'm a bit annoyed when it happens and would love to go on the offensive, either with defending my privacy in religious decisions or in questioning his own practices and beliefs. On the other hand, I'm a pretty laid back dude who doesn't like offending others, and for the most part I have no problem with religion or its adherents. I've only really gone off once in my life, and the dude more than deserved it. But it's a recurring struggle with these things.
Anyway, I tried to remain congenial with Santa but eventually tried to trip him up. After some of his own brief proselytizing, he asked me, "who put you on this earth?"
"My parents," once again waiting for the inevitable response, accompanied by a slight head wag.
"God did."
"Really? How do you know that?" I asked, finally allowing myself a touch of irony. He just smiled and tapped his heart a few times. He's probably a real altruistic dude, and thought he was doing a great thing. So it's hard to be angry, but I was still annoyed.
I tapped my own heart. "Well I have this that says that that's wrong. How do we know which one of us is right?"
"You just have to look inside yourself and be able to give thanks for what you have." Ok, so I was done at that point. I had expected either an appeal to faith or a dodge, and got the latter, and didn't feel like continuing. I wanted to let him know I am atheist, because I don't think he had put it together, and thought I was a lapsed Christian who simply didn't practice anymore. It might have given him a shock. But I got myself out with some cliche lines and left.
So yeah, nothing profound, evil, funny, etc. But I've encountered this sort of thing enough to have it be something that I think about, because I'm always unsure of how to handle it. It's tempting to be a d*ck, but I would also feel bad about it more often than not.
If anyone has similar stories, feel free to share. Or completely unrelated ones, share those as well.
Er, I remember in 8th grade I got in a huge fight with this Wicca girl who claimed Wicca had a ton of original aspects not share by any other religion. So we got into an argument where she'd try to come up with something, and id tell her X religion thought of it first. It was almost a bit scary how uneducated she seemed about religion, including her own.
She stuck away from me after that.
A similar argument I got into with this fundamentalist girl made her parents home school her...
Not a conversation, but there is an amusing though scathing review of Left Behind on the blog (or something, I'm not too down with intricacies of net lingo) slacktivist. The first few pages are pretty much what I expected. Then about five pages in it turns out that the reviewer himself is an evangelical Christian who believes in the literal resurrection of the body when Jesus returns.
I dunno, that just hit me completely out of left field.
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
My uncle's father was an Orthodox Jew who went to temple every day to davin. One day, when he was old and finished praying, he laid down his prayer book, leaned back, closed his eyes and died.
Choosing your time and place, especially one which brings great comfort and meaning: nice way to go.
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Shinier than a speeding bullet.
I was in Church sitting in the pews and a money collector sat near me, I didn't put anything in the bag and so he passed on...as he went down the pews he insulted people who didn't put money in. For the next few weeks I sat next to him, much to his anger, and attempted to discuss why it was wrong to force people into giving money. He repeatedly threatened to attack me or other things, on one occasion coming close to it.
However, after I moved onto the Altar I never got to sit next to him any more. I still see him around, not a very pleasant character.
A couple years ago my son witnessed something like that on his college campus. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church were there in force with their signs and bullhorns and telling people that they're all going to Hell and America is doomed like usual. And Shirley Phelps got torn up by a Hindu student. He started it by telling her that they also believe Jesus is divine (an avatar), so why are Christians like her so exclusive. She then said that Hindus are pagans, that they "commandeered" Jesus for their own purposes and that Gandhi is in Hell. He then said that there's actually only one God in Hinduism, all the "others" are representations of different attributes of the Creator, like the Trinity in Christianity or the 99 Names of God in Islam. He then added that Gandhi is closer to Jesus than Fred Phelps (her dad) could ever hope to be, and she went off the deep end. So basically, he totally and masterfully handled that crazy broad.
So I received a forward from a friend via email today. I don't see him very often, and he was among those who "expressed concern" (i.e. tried to re-convert me) when I became an atheist. The email included a chicken-soupy anecdote about a conversation between an atheist professor and a christian student, and is a defense of theism. I've seen it before, as I'm sure some of you have. The Christian is purportedly Albert Einstein, though besides being an appeal to authority I think we can agree that his theism (such as it was) never really bent toward mainstream Christianity in his adult life.
He's still a good guy, his attempted conversion those years ago was much more tactful than some, and I like hanging out with him. But the email seems particularly awkward. I have no idea how to respond. The premise of the story, of course, makes certain flawed assumptions about atheism, and is also very one-sided in its argument. I'd have no problem refuting it, but that's not the concern. I guess I just don't understand such...i dunno, transparent attempts at conversion. If I wanted to convert someone, I'd sit down with them and hash things out point by point in a discussion. I would never resort to anecdotal silliness that merely takes occasional swipes at the person instead of treating their worldview with proper respect.
So I'm not angry. Far from it, in fact. He's trying to do good, and while I disagree with the methods and am slightly annoyed by them, I respect the intent. I'm just not sure how to react in a way that presents my opinion on both the story and the email itself, but doesn't come off in a negative manner.
...not fishing for advice, btw, unless you guys feel so inclined. Just putting it out there as a personal anecdote, since that was the intent of this thread (both my stories have been attempted conversions...heh, I should try to branch out more).
Gender: Male Location: Southern Oregon,
Looking at you.
Advice: (and you can ignore it if you like), Do not refer to the story at all, when you e-mail him back. Instead reminisce about the good old days, and ignore any of his attempts to engage in this kind of conversation. That is what I would do, in your shoes.
Alternate: if forced into it, you cloud point out that Einstein sent a letter to the president supporting the development of the atomic bomb, and that he regretted it later in life. This only goes to show that even Einstein is sometimes wrong.
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Last edited by Shakyamunison on Feb 22nd, 2010 at 07:56 PM
Ha, I suppose I can try. I may not have that kind of restraint though. My KMC-trained religious debate reflex is strong.
I also like the Einstein suggestion. It's a clever refutation, though I doubt I'll get into particulars of the story. It will hopefully suffice to say I disagree with it, and hopefully he'll leave it at that.
Usually when I get into conversations/debates where the two sides never shall meet, sooner or later I tend to emphasize what I consider most important: mutual respect for difference of opinion. This is something both sides -- if of reasonable mind -- can agree with, and in a subtle way it's also saying, "So stop trying to convert me, since I won't be converted to your side any more than you will be to my side."
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Shinier than a speeding bullet.
I once got involved in a mass "debate" (Christians and Jews versus Atheists) on my university campus. A day later I reflected upon how pointless and unproductive the "debate" was, I still shudder at the fact that I participated in such a load of pointless bullsh*t.
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"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead."
Last edited by Blinky on Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:45 AM
I teach music lessons, and one of my students (young girl) asked me what I was giving up for Lent. I can't impart her tone through words, but the innocence of the question was priceless because it was clear she considered there to be no alternative. So I smiled and told her I wasn't religious. Her response was "You mean like Jewish?" No, I clarified, just not religious at all. "You don't have to be a religion?!" she asked incredulously. The whole thing was cute. And I'm moderately happy I got to open her mind slightly to the world around her.
Haven't emailed the dude back yet from my earlier story. I'll likely add in a conclusion to it when I do.
Excellent, thank you. I may attach this to my email, though I'll likely have to temper it lest it send the wrong message.
Anyway, story of my own. For Christmas one year my grandfather gave me the Bahgavahd Gita with a card that read something like "to see what most of the world believes". Kind of a dick move, he was clearly hoping to annoy my mother, but it's an interesting book to have (I keep it next to my stolen Book of Mormon and compendiums of Greek and Norse mythology).
It's interesting how people think that religions are somehow total anathema to one another. Like if you put a Jew and a Christian in the same room they would be compelled to fight to the death or something. I remember mentioning in high school that I went to a Passover seder every other year and people were absolutely floored that I wasn't Jewish.
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
Lawl. Yeah, when I was young I remember that I used to think it was odd that my Catholic church had so many joint functions with the Presbyterians down the road. Same idea I guess, though your experience with it is a bit more widespread. But your gramps sounds cool.
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) and we like to talk religion. We undoubtedly have fun stuff to tell.
Jun 14th, 2009 11:23 PM
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I thought you were an English teacher!
