Had to Happen--GALACTUS vs the Growing Gauntlet

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leonidas
galactus has just consumed TAA II and battleworld's sun AND he's really REALLY po'd. he's MORE ready and more powerful than he has EVER been in any comic!

the next in line appears the INSTANT the preceding person on the list is in trouble. how many does it take to bring down the mighty world devourer:

1. celestial-ready asgardian desroyer/with
2. surtur w/twlight
3. zeus
4. darkseid
5. thanos
6. anti-monitor (most recent)
7. asmodel
8. KC gog
9. monarch
10. odin
11. dormammu
12. shazam
13. solaris
14. ego
15. entire JLA 1M

ps--the list is NOT MEANT TO BE ORDERED IN TERMS OF POWER . . .

Ouallada
What happens if he one-shots his opponents? I could see a peak G without CIS one-shotting a few of his opponents here. Is draining opponents allowed too?

KuRuPT Thanosi
one shots count but I'm not sure about draining.

Ooo yeah and Leo you totally got the order right in terms of Thanos and DS hahah

leonidas
Originally posted by Ouallada
What happens if he one-shots his opponents? I could see a peak G without CIS one-shotting a few of his opponents here. Is draining opponents allowed too?

yep. one-shots count and draining is an option if you think he can do it. smile

and KT--i suspect trick would disagree . . . laughing out loud

Lord Feron
Clears it.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by leonidas
yep. one-shots count and draining is an option if you think he can do it. smile

and KT--i suspect trick would disagree . . . laughing out loud

I suspect your right but it's only Trick right... laughing out loud

Ouallada
Yeah I think he might clear it too. I'm not sure how powerful Solaris really is due to a lack of showings, and I'm not too sure about Asmodel as well, but I don't see anything on par with a peak G that is essentially Eternity level.

leonidas
Originally posted by Ouallada
Yeah I think he might clear it too. I'm not sure how powerful Solaris really is due to a lack of showings, and I'm not too sure about Asmodel as well, but I don't see anything on par with a peak G that is essentially Eternity level.

this version is powerful, no doubt, but he still wouldn't be anywhere near eternity, imo. taa was powerful--most powerful energy source in the universe i think--but eternity=taa ii+the rest of the entire universe that is NOT taa ii.

so while i see this g being very uber, i still think galactus<<eternity. imo, i don't think he'd clear this, even with what i've given him.

Digi
I don't think he clears either. No clue where he stops though.

Utrigita
He most likely doesn't clear it, the JLA 1M, had they been earlier, might have been defeated, but having used power to dispose of the rest (even though he can drain power from most of them), he won't imo have enough energy to defeat a Being that can make itself one with a universe and another being that can Freeze a Big Bang effortless.

leonidas
Originally posted by Utrigita
He most likely doesn't clear it, the JLA 1M, had they been earlier, might have been defeated, but having used power to dispose of the rest (even though he can drain power from most of them), he won't imo have enough energy to defeat a Being that can make itself one with a universe and another being that can Freeze a Big Bang effortless.

yeah, i sort of was thinking the same thing. he MIGHT be able to reach the end, but i don't think he clears. JLA 1M can pack a lot of firepower, though i wonder if he could simply drain the android, ala ultron.

Ouallada
Originally posted by leonidas
this version is powerful, no doubt, but he still wouldn't be anywhere near eternity, imo. taa was powerful--most powerful energy source in the universe i think--but eternity=taa ii+the rest of the entire universe that is NOT taa ii.

so while i see this g being very uber, i still think galactus<<eternity. imo, i don't think he'd clear this, even with what i've given him.

Heh.

When you said most powerful version ever I just read it as what Galactus would theoretically be at FP, which would be something along the lines of the Black Celestial arc, in all probability.

G << Eternity here, for sure, even though I'm still not very clear on what level G is before he consumes his ship. How resistant would Solaris and the JLA 1m be to draining a la Hyperstorm?

psycho gundam
galactus is too ambiguous for a definite answer.

Bouboumaster
Doom with this amount of power go against Beyounder. He gets an ass-whooping but still, it puts some perspective...

leonidas
Originally posted by psycho gundam
galactus is too ambiguous for a definite answer.

schmoll

Naija boy
Clears it

Enyalus
I'd give Big G around a 50/50 split at 15. No one until Ego gives him much difficulty at all, and since Big G knows what kind of gauntlet he's going to be in for, he's most likely going to absorb whatever power he can from his fallen foes.

Endless Mike
Clears it

occultdestroyer
Clears it.



Honestly, Galactus should be equal to Death and Eternity theoretically.

janus77
clears it, easily.
the guy consumed Celestials... he can easily mop the lot of them up, at his "most powerful".

also, he could simply use his powers to make each of them a herald of his, leave them to do his fighting for him.

Galactus has billions of ways of beating the lot of them, without expending much energy (though he'll constantly be replenishing it via ambient cosmic energies and, if he wants to be nasty, by consuming the opposition's energies).

but yeah, he definitely clears it.

leonidas
he consumed celestials in a non-canon setting. this g is NOT equal to eternity--not even close imo. and he doesn't replenish via ambient cosmic energy--or at least not enough since he needs to devour planets to replenish his source. after each one comes into the gauntlet, g will lose more and more energy, unless he absorbs from the opposition. something he could do in some cases, but not all, imo.

janus77
he's also consumed hyperspace (the source of The Celestials, iirc) and that is canon I think.

also, he's shown just how easily he can consume dimensions when he began to do that to Mephisto's dimension. he definitely powers up by consuming things so why wouldn't he consume his opponent?

logically there's no way Galactus could lose this gauntlet, as each opponent fuels him even more. most of these characters wouldn't survive an angry "Herald, my rage!" blast (killed a Watcher, iirc).

nah, these jokers aren't going to beat a well fed Galactus.

easiest scenario, Galactus mind rapes each opponent (like he's done to Surfer, countless times - the same Surfer who's resisted pretty high-end TP types) and plays them as finger puppets. since he has Cosmic Awareness, he can easily rip apart the minds of opponents by just downloading a fraction of his omniscience into their unprepared minds (a sort of Insane Genis situation).

he could also take the first few and make them all heralds, and then just chillout as they annihilate the rest of the field.

seriously, how does a character that can wipe out and remake universes, can consume the omni-verse (implied, natch) and has the Ultimate Nullifier, lose when he's both prep'd and pissed off?

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by janus77
he's also consumed hyperspace (the source of The Celestials, iirc) and that is canon I think.

also, he's shown just how easily he can consume dimensions when he began to do that to Mephisto's dimension. he definitely powers up by consuming things so why wouldn't he consume his opponent?

logically there's no way Galactus could lose this gauntlet, as each opponent fuels him even more. most of these characters wouldn't survive an angry "Herald, my rage!" blast (killed a Watcher, iirc).

nah, these jokers aren't going to beat a well fed Galactus.

easiest scenario, Galactus mind rapes each opponent (like he's done to Surfer, countless times - the same Surfer who's resisted pretty high-end TP types) and plays them as finger puppets. since he has Cosmic Awareness, he can easily rip apart the minds of opponents by just downloading a fraction of his omniscience into their unprepared minds (a sort of Insane Genis situation).

he could also take the first few and make them all heralds, and then just chillout as they annihilate the rest of the field.

seriously, how does a character that can wipe out and remake universes, can consume the omni-verse (implied, natch) and has the Ultimate Nullifier, lose when he's both prep'd and pissed off?

He can't repower is lifeforce with any kind of energy, only the energy of hospitable worlds. Dimensions probably count under this as dimensions (like Mephisto's realm) don't have worlds, but everything is in one place, and are hospitable to some entities.

And Galactus is not omniscient, he knows a lot, but he is not omniscient in anyway.

And although the blast which killed a Watcher was impressive, as killing a Watcher is not easy in anyway (let alone completely atomising one), that Watcher didn't have time to try and survive with shields etc. If he had tried he would of, due to fact Nova and Annihilus survived, and they were both near the epicentre of the blast.

GamorasBigDaddy
Yea Galactus survives & wins the Gauntlet!!


GBD

Knowsbleed33
I say he clears it.

Priest
Clears it, but Odin outs up a fight O_o

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by Priest
Clears it, but Odin outs up a fight O_o

Not at all wink

Priest
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Not at all wink
Fanboy uhuh

leonidas
hmm, let's see--he never drained tyrant (who he CREATED) he never drained thanos. he never drained inbetweener, sphinx, ego, mephisto or any of the thousands of others he's battled, except for hyperstorm. he never drained agamotto, and never absorbed HIS dimension either.

and yet somehow he's gonna 'drain' all these guys--easily? you must be joking. were that the case, it wouldn't matter WHAT level he started at. he could be WEAK and simply drain them. i wonder why that's really never happened . . .? and again--he did NOT consume celestials. he was draining hyperstorm. is it possible he could drain a celestial that way? i suppose, but that has no bearing at all here, since, well, there are NO celestials in the gauntlet.

nor is he mindraping these guys. if THANOS could escape him on the astral plane, guys like dormammu and odin could do a whole lot of damage to him there. they could CERTAINLY last long enough to allow others to come in and then a guy with nary an offensive psi showing is being ganged up on by some guys who DO have good showings.

and turning them into heralds? blink

sharing omniscience? blink blink

he most certainly isn't making any of these guys heralds (cuz he does THAT all the time, right . . .?) and many ALREADY share a limited (as g's is limited) form of omniscience.

anyone who says he clears this 'easily' certainly doesn't understand the players that are involved here.

Knowsbleed33
Ego is the only real threat.

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas

he consumed celestials in a non-canon setting.
I may have to disagree here good friend.

The "Black Celestial" arc took place in Fantastic Four #337-341,
and it was the 616 Universe (amongst all creation)
that was in danger due to Galactus' insatiable hunger.

It also involved 616 characters like the FF, Thor, & the Shiar, amongst others.

And it was 616 Galactus in a future a mere 15 years away,
from the date set withIN the 616 Universe at the time.

Now, I'll be the first to make it known,
that all stories that take place in the Future,
are set in alternate realities, that's a fact,
but, unlike mirror realities or diverged Futures,
when one actually travels to a potential 616 Future,
like the FF/Thor & Co. did during said arc,
that potential Future involves the actual 616 characters
represented by their Future-selves.

So in essence, it was 616 Galactus in the "Black Celestial" arc,
well, his 616 Future self anyway,
and the arc, is canon, and there's no doubt about that.

Mr Master
Oh, btw, he clears it imo.

But, not necessarily easily.
(considering the stipulation involved)

Knowsbleed33
I think he might've been talking about the Earth X story.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

I think he might've been talking about the Earth X story.
That wasn't Galactus though,
that was Franklin Richards.

Which btw,
wasn't defeated by the Celestials because they thought it was Galactus,
whom the Celestials somewhat feared in that story,
due to Galatcus' essentiality to existence,
which barred them from ever being able to destory him.

In fact, the writer states, (not verbatim)
that Franklin was lucky the Celestials didn't know it was him,
otherwise, in their combined power would've stomped him basically.

Nevertheless, that story also involved the Omniverse.
(but was concentrated withIN Reality 9997)
but characters & weapons with no alternates appeared in the arc too,
like Roma & Merlin, and Excalibur the 'Sword of Might.'

Knowsbleed33
Has Galactus ever consumed Celestials in the 616 universe?

Mr Master
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33

Has Galactus ever consumed Celestials in the 616 universe?
Not to my knowledge.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Mr Master
That wasn't Galactus though,
that was Franklin Richards.

Which btw,
wasn't defeated by the Celestials because they thought it was Galactus,
whom the Celestials somewhat feared in that story,
due to Galatcus' essentiality to existence,
which barred them from ever being able to destory him.

In fact, the writer states, (not verbatim)
that Franklin was lucky the Celestials didn't know it was him,
otherwise, in their combined power would've stomped him basically.

Nevertheless, that story also involved the Omniverse.
(but was concentrated withIN Reality 9997)
but characters & weapons with no alternates appeared in the arc too,
like Roma & Merlin, and Excalibur the 'Sword of Might.'

It was Galactus (in some form and shape), in the act iirc it was stated that Franklin believed himself to be Galactus and thus became Galactus ore something like that.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
I may have to disagree here good friend.

The "Black Celestial" arc took place in Fantastic Four #337-341,
and it was the 616 Universe (amongst all creation)
that was in danger due to Galactus' insatiable hunger.

It also involved 616 characters like the FF, Thor, & the Shiar, amongst others.

And it was 616 Galactus in a future a mere 15 years away,
from the date set withIN the 616 Universe at the time.

Now, I'll be the first to make it known,
that all stories that take place in the Future,
are set in alternate realities, that's a fact,
but, unlike mirror realities or diverged Futures,
when one actually travels to a potential 616 Future,
like the FF/Thor & Co. did during said arc,
that potential Future involves the actual 616 characters
represented by their Future-selves.

So in essence, it was 616 Galactus in the "Black Celestial" arc,
well, his 616 Future self anyway,
and the arc, is canon, and there's no doubt about that.

my guess was he WAS discussing the earth x arc, OR he was extrapolating based on the defeat of hyperstorm.

i agree that the black celestial arc WAS canon, but i think we've discussed this before--i tend not to use that feat because his hunger had been tampered with. g wasn't in his right mind.

could he replicate the feat if he tried to do so? maybe, but again, if he could, at anytime, simply start devouring EVERYTHING, why bother simply feeding on planets? he should never be weakened because he could always just start absorbing everything, or if not everything, enough until he's hungry.

like i said--maybe he could duplicate the feat if he chose, but i tend to throw that arc out when discussing galactus because i don't really know just what the the celestial's tampering did.

janus77
I was referring to the Black Celestial arc and, as the only alteration was to Galactus' motivation/hunger, he clearly has the capacity to do the job, should he really want to.

the other point (about consuming Hyperspace) was obviously an extrapolation on what he did with Hyperstorm (which did energise Galactus).


I think Galactus' energy levels are independent of his hunger, and it the latter that depands constant replenishment.

Galactus' energies are not going to be severely depleted by this gauntlet, as there aren't any serious challenges until 7-8ish. thus he one-shots the early ones, steals their energies (organic/life energies) and/or consumes their dimensions completely (where appropriate).

by the time he's facing some challenge, he's already insanely powerful ... or has mind-wiped and overtaken some of the characters he let survive from earlier. either way, he'll get more and more powerful, if he's fighting smart (and he is supposed to be more intelligent than Thanos!).

leonidas
he isn't consuming anyone's dimensions because they aren't fighting in their dimensions. he's fighting in the default kmc ring, and again, i don't see him absorbing the life force of the destroyer or surtur, like he didn't absorb the life forces of so many of the others i mentioned.

if his hunger was tampered with, we can't use that arc to determine what his hunger would allow were it NOT tampered with. possible he could replicate the feat? maybe. never been shown though and again, if he could do that, there wouldn't be any reason for him to EVER be hungry.

KuRuPT Thanosi
People saying this is easy considering the showings of Big G pissed off in vs. battles is kidna silly. We've seen Big G in fights and seen how they all play out. Now you throw a list like this together and you think it will be easy... Hardly.

leonidas
yeah, that's what i was thinking. we've also seen a pretty well powered g need to expend a fair amount of energy just busting through thanos's shields. erm

based on what's been said, i guess he should have simply drained thanos while he was holding him in his hand . . .

Enyalus
BIG G ABSORBS EVRI1 4 THA EZ WIN!!!

Naija boy
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, that's what i was thinking. we've also seen a pretty well powered g need to expend a fair amount of energy just busting through thanos's shields. erm


Honsetly that arc isnt the best one to judge G on..........(he was nearly killed by a nuclear arsenal iirc). the whole thing was ridiculous.

leonidas
Originally posted by Naija boy
Honsetly that arc isnt the best one to judge G on..........(he was nearly killed by a nuclear arsenal iirc). the whole thing was ridiculous.

oh, i realize that. that's why i brought up so many of his other battles. i'm just saying based on even g's best feats--throwing away the black celestial arc for reasons i mentioned already--i still can't see him clearing this.

leonidas
Originally posted by Enyalus
BIG G ABSORBS EVRI1 4 THA EZ WIN!!!

sigh . . . .

Naija boy
^IMO this talk about him not having enough energy is pretty unfounded. G hd a continuous battle with tyrant for thousands of years iirc and so if we take him at his best he shouldnt be gassing by the end of the guantlet. Further imo the toughest guy on this list would be Odin(bar JLA 1million) and i honsestly dont see him as person who would pose THAT much of a problem to galactus. how do u think odin would do against a celestial?(actually weve seen how he do) because according to kubiks power ranking galactus is at least of a comparable level (actually ranked above them). Further even if we use an arc where galactus was probly portrayed at his worst ever, (where he fights thanos) galactus still had a better showing against a shared opponenet (thanos). Now the G in this thread would be FAR above that level considering the extremely good meal he would have had at the beginning.

Moreover weve seen recently in annihilation what Gs firepower can do when he really lets lose (oneshotting a watcher who are at least skyfather level and supposedly indestructible). At the energy level he would be at in this thread hed be monstrous.

Enyalus
Originally posted by Naija boy
Honsetly that arc isnt the best one to judge G on..........(he was nearly killed by a nuclear arsenal iirc). the whole thing was ridiculous.
Pfft. A planet's worth of nuclear arsenal plus two planets colliding. stick out tongue

Naija boy
Originally posted by Enyalus
Pfft. A planet's worth of nuclear arsenal plus two planets colliding. stick out tongue


lol true. doesnt make it any less degrading. amazingly in that same arc, G was able to easily survive in an exploding sun............the whole thing deserves a big facepalm

Enyalus
Originally posted by Naija boy
lol true. doesnt make it any less degrading. amazingly in that same arc, G was able to easily survive in an exploding sun...........
....Thanos may have 'upgraded' those Rigalean nukes. shifty

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Naija boy
^IMO this talk about him not having enough energy is pretty unfounded. G hd a continuous battle with tyrant for thousands of years iirc and so if we take him at his best he shouldnt be gassing by the end of the guantlet. Further imo the toughest guy on this list would be Odin(bar JLA 1million) and i honsestly dont see him as person who would pose THAT much of a problem to galactus. how do u think odin would do against a celestial?(actually weve seen how he do) because according to kubiks power ranking galactus is at least of a comparable level (actually ranked above them). Further even if we use an arc where galactus was probly portrayed at his worst ever, (where he fights thanos) galactus still had a better showing against a shared opponenet (thanos). Now the G in this thread would be FAR above that level considering the extremely good meal he would have had at the beginning.

Moreover weve seen recently in annihilation what Gs firepower can do when he really lets lose (oneshotting a watcher who are at least skyfather level and supposedly indestructible). At the energy level he would be at in this thread hed be monstrous.

You act as though that was the first time we've seen Big G weak for some reason. That is usually the case with him for an assortment of reasons. Nothing new there. Is fight with Thanos wasn't hardly is lowest showing when you consider.... Thing toppling him lol.

Naija boy
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You act as though that was the first time we've seen Big G weak for some reason. That is usually the case with him for an assortment of reasons. Nothing new there. Is fight with Thanos wasn't hardly is lowest showing when you consider.... Thing toppling him lol.

In most low showings,g starts out weak. Its different when in this case he was supposedly nourished and then depletes his energy breaching a friggin forcefield. Then we have him brushing off supernovas but almost getting killed by nukes. The whole arc was poorly written and filled with PIS.

also when he got toppled by thing he wasnt at all hurt by him. he just got pushed off a ledge unexpectedly. Not the best of showings certainly but it hardly tells us anything about G in regards to power level........but nukes?cmon even the surfer could brush that off easily.

Naija boy
edit

Utrigita
Originally posted by Naija boy
In most low showings,g starts out weak. Its different when in this case he was supposedly nourished and then depletes his energy breaching a friggin forcefield. Then we have him brushing off supernovas but almost getting killed by nukes. The whole arc was poorly written and filled with PIS.

thumb up

I also find it rather fun that when he one shots thanos forcefields he depletes "vital Energy" yet the second after that he is capable of delivering numerous energy blast towards Hunger that actually makes it initially withdraw before it adapts.

Knowsbleed33
He clears it but not easily.

Ego alone will take a long, long time.

Mr Master
Originally posted by Utrigita

It was Galactus (in some form and shape), in the act iirc it was stated that Franklin believed himself to be Galactus and thus became Galactus ore something like that.
Not exactly good friend.

It was Franklin Richards,
who thought he was Galactus, but was not in any way but dress code.

Galactus was still sustaining Reality in his natural state,
since that's what happened to the real Galactus in that arc, courtesy of Reed.

Again, the writer clearly pointed out, through the mouth of X-51,
that had the Celestials known that was Franky instead of Galactus,
they would've killed em. But fortunately for Franky,
they thought he was Galactus, which they couldn't kill,
for fear of collapsing reality.

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas

i agree that the black celestial arc WAS canon, but i think we've discussed this before--i tend not to use that feat because his hunger had been tampered with. g wasn't in his right mind.
His hunger was tampered with, we agree,
but his absorption capacity was all his own.
Originally posted by leonidas

could he replicate the feat if he tried to do so? maybe, but again, if he could, at anytime, simply start devouring EVERYTHING, why bother simply feeding on planets? he should never be weakened because he could always just start absorbing everything, or if not everything, enough until he's hungry.
Galactus doesn't want to eat everything, he's a defender of reality,
he wants reality to flourish, he knows he must be forever hungry for the sake of reality,
he's Eternity's son, brother, and so on, he hails Eternity, as Eternity hails him,
they're survival is based on their existences.

If Galactus dies, Eternity/Infinity die,
if Eternity/Infinity die, Galactus will have nothing left to feed on ... and die as well.

Unless of course Byrne's vision of Galactus' purpose comes to fruition,
thus making Galactus the next creator of the Marvel Universe,
by using the same energies he fed on that were the reality.

Beyond that good friend,
for the sake of story telling,
Galactus has to feed with limitations in the average showing.
Originally posted by leonidas

like i said--maybe he could duplicate the feat if he chose, but i tend to throw that arc out when discussing galactus because i don't really know just what the the celestial's tampering did.
Taimut basically made it so Galactus could not stop himself from feeding,
that's it.

What the arc proved,
is that Galactus' storage capacity for energy is boundless/infinite.
(he also seems to already contain infinite energy,
proven when he returned to his natural state in 616
and became a Star that would radiate energy forver)

Galactus is the one that stops himself after one planet btw,
that's all he needs to stay in functioning conditions,
yet, we know he can absorb more,
even throwing out the 'Black Celestial' arc we know this is true.

Knowsbleed33
Hehehehe, not anymore good friend. Galactus is gonna eat the universe.

Ouallada
Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
He clears it but not easily.

Ego alone will take a long, long time.

Why? To be honest, Ego has a long history of poor showings despite his high standing, and unlike some of the other combatants for whom it is debateable if Galactus can/will turn into batteries, Galactus has already tried to consume Ego, and might have done it if Thor hadn't driven him off.

Knowsbleed33
In that fight Ego was giving Galactus a run for his money. IIRC it was even mentioned that Ego was on par with Galactus power wise.

Ouallada
Galactus was extremely weak in that instance though. Which was why Thor's godblast drove him off in the first place. In all honesty, Ego has lost too many times to mere top tiers and various other low-end scenarios to form a larger threat to Galactus than Odin of the JLA, imo.

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
His hunger was tampered with, we agree,
but his absorption capacity was all his own.

Galactus doesn't want to eat everything, he's a defender of reality,
he wants reality to flourish, he knows he must be forever hungry for the sake of reality,
he's Eternity's son, brother, and so on, he hails Eternity, as Eternity hails him,
they're survival is based on their existences.

If Galactus dies, Eternity/Infinity die,
if Eternity/Infinity die, Galactus will have nothing left to feed on ... and die as well.

Unless of course Byrne's vision of Galactus' purpose comes to fruition,
thus making Galactus the next creator of the Marvel Universe,
by using the same energies he fed on that were the reality.

Beyond that good friend,
for the sake of story telling,
Galactus has to feed with limitations in the average showing.

Taimut basically made it so Galactus could not stop himself from feeding,
that's it.

What the arc proved,
is that Galactus' storage capacity for energy is boundless/infinite.
(he also seems to already contain infinite energy,
proven when he returned to his natural state in 616
and became a Star that would radiate energy forver)

Galactus is the one that stops himself after one planet btw,
that's all he needs to stay in functioning conditions,
yet, we know he can absorb more,
even throwing out the 'Black Celestial' arc we know this is true.

i think i agree with most of that, but it just doesn't have much practical relevence. does he have the CAPACITY to devour the universe or beyond? maybe, i guess. could he willingly do so whenever he chose to do so? based on all his showings, based on how weak we've seen him in the past, and how desperately he's needed to feed? no. at his weakest he's needed to be practically carried to a planet to regain his energy. why not just start absorbing the universe--even a small part of it to sustain himself?

i've always sort of speculated that maybe he COULD absorb parts of the universe, but it simply wouldn't sustain him since it's not biospheric energy. doesn't really make sense since he's devoured dimensions though, so, i don't know. does that mean everytime we see him near death it's because he CHOOSES to be that weak? is it all just PIS whenever he is weak? meh, i'd rather not say that.

what i DO know is that his hunger WAS altered by the celestial, that that version of galactus WAS changed, and hence what THAT version did and was capable of doing really has no bearing on what the normal galactus would/might do.

he may have the CAPACITY to absorb the universe+, but practically speaking (and for purposes of this match) that capacity is meaningless.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Naija boy
In most low showings,g starts out weak. Its different when in this case he was supposedly nourished and then depletes his energy breaching a friggin forcefield. Then we have him brushing off supernovas but almost getting killed by nukes. The whole arc was poorly written and filled with PIS.

also when he got toppled by thing he wasnt at all hurt by him. he just got pushed off a ledge unexpectedly. Not the best of showings certainly but it hardly tells us anything about G in regards to power level........but nukes?cmon even the surfer could brush that off easily.

I think Thanos shields are wrote very consistently and shown to be very strong. If it just depleted them with no explanation on why or how that was possible you would have more of a point. However, Big G's own words speak to why that happened and thus it's plausible and not some PIS. He said he's never had to work so hard to break a force field. You can take that statement very easily to mean it's the toughest shield he's tried to break in his long long existence. You can take it or interrupt it how you want but clearly Big G (writer) was trying to convey the messgae that he hadn't encountered such a force field and thus it draining him doesn't seem that far fetched at all. Then when you consider when Thanos's shields did against a being said to be more powerful then Galactus in Omega and how it held up to his pissed off continuous blast it seem like his shields are that damn strong.

Juntai
Originally posted by Naija boy
In most low showings,g starts out weak. Its different when in this case he was supposedly nourished and then depletes his energy breaching a friggin forcefield. Then we have him brushing off supernovas but almost getting killed by nukes. The whole arc was poorly written and filled with PIS. Do you guys read PIS as Pee-Eye-Ess, or as Piss? Because I crack up all the time on the forum when i read it like that.

Enyalus
I read it as "Pea-Eye-Ess", yeah.

KuRuPT Thanosi
edit

Ouallada
Originally posted by leonidas

i've always sort of speculated that maybe he COULD absorb parts of the universe, but it simply wouldn't sustain him since it's not biospheric energy. doesn't really make sense since he's devoured dimensions though, so, i don't know. does that mean everytime we see him near death it's because he CHOOSES to be that weak? is it all just PIS whenever he is weak? meh, i'd rather not say that.



Logically though, one thing I haven't really grasped about Galactus is that we've seen Surfer be self-sustaining in his ability to draw sustenance from the cosmos, and from more potent sources like stars and the like during battle. What's stopping Galactus from doing the same, since he definitely has all of SS' abilities but to a much larger extent? Does his hunger override any sustenance that he arbitrarily draws from the cosmos?

leonidas
Originally posted by Ouallada
Logically though, one thing I haven't really grasped about Galactus is that we've seen Surfer be self-sustaining in his ability to draw sustenance from the cosmos, and from more potent sources like stars and the like during battle. What's stopping Galactus from doing the same, since he definitely has all of SS' abilities but to a much larger extent? Does his hunger override any sustenance that he arbitrarily draws from the cosmos?

galactus's character has really been screwed up, imo, over the years. erm

the one constant has been he requires BIOSPHERIC energy to replete himself. maybe he is capable of drawing and absorbing ambient cosmic energy, but it doesn't seem to be able to sustain him at all. it's like when he died--he became a star that would burn forever. i just had this discussion not too long ago, but that ever-burning star was utterly ridiculous. what it implies is that galactus himself contains INFINITE energy, yet at the some time he is always hungry and can literally DIE for lack of energy! what the hell?? f his bidy contains infinite energy, then why does he need to feed in the first place??

meh. i think to many writers have put their hands on the character and cumulatively they seem to have made a mess of him. sad

janus77
Galactus' hunger is a device for maintaining "Cosmic Consonance", no?

sometimes he's just hungry because he must be hungry in order to be compelled to devour worlds (and thus reduce the amount of life in the universe to the balance that is his function).

I don't think he needs organic life to energize himself, as he's proven in the Hyperstorm feat, but he does need it when he's hungry (because of the hunger, rather than energy depletion).

given that he has the power, within him, to annihilate whole galaxies with a wave of the hand (whilst weak, hungry and hurt), it makes no sense to attribute that kind of energy potential to the consumption of a solitary planet.

Ouallada
It's always depicted that he can only replenish himself via biospheric energy, but then and again he sustained himself on hyperspace via Hyperstorm, which I think is more akin to drawing sustenance from the cosmos than feeding on biospheric energy.

Perhaps, a good tradeoff between infinite energy and always being hungry is that Galactus was theoretically formed from the summed remains of the previous universe (which is where the infinite energy comes from) and his hunger can be explained via a combination of sustenance and keeping Abraxas away. I've always taken Galactus to be somewhat of an energy black hole anyway.

Someone more versed in Galactus would probably come in to explain it to us now.

@ Janus: I thought it was the Proemial Gods who were tasked with cosmic consonance, and Galactus was "equity" between Eternity and Death? Not sure how his hunger theoretically furthers that though.

leonidas
Originally posted by Ouallada
Someone more versed in Galactus would probably come in to explain it to us now.

laughing out loud

with our luck it will probably be souldevourer. shock
anyway, i'm pretty sure there IS no explanation.

if he can consume ANY energy to sutain himself, he should never be near death.

if he requires just biospheric energy to sustain himself, hyperspatial energy shouldn't have sustained him.

if he contains infinite energy, he should never require energy. even factoring in the energy required to contain abraxas (a silly creation, imo) infinite energy is . . . infinite.

it was so much better back when he was a simple character. sad

janus77
Originally posted by Ouallada
@ Janus: I thought it was the Proemial Gods who were tasked with cosmic consonance, and Galactus was "equity" between Eternity and Death? Not sure how his hunger theoretically furthers that though.
if I recall correctly, Galactus has stated that he works to maintain the Cosmic Consonance. the Pro-Es were there to nurture the universe at a much earlier stage (then Galactus wiped them out, when they no longer served the universe).

Heavy G is to the "Cosmic Consonance" what the entire Celestial race is to "The Fulcrum", I think.
actually, I think the "Cosmic Consonance" might be the will/plan of The Fulcrum... I await some knowledge on the matter. it's actually one of the more fascinating aspects of the MU... to me anyway.

Ouallada
Originally posted by leonidas
laughing out loud

with our luck it will probably be souldevourer. shock
anyway, i'm pretty sure there IS no explanation.

if he can consume ANY energy to sutain himself, he should never be near death.

if he requires just biospheric energy to sustain himself, hyperspatial energy shouldn't have sustained him.

if he contains infinite energy, he should never require energy. even factoring in the energy required to contain abraxas (a silly creation, imo) infinite energy is . . . infinite.

it was so much better back when he was a simple character. sad

Well, I'm not exactly looking forward to a poorly-spelled thesis on why Galactus is now mystical because science (PC) cannot > magic.

Perhaps a wider definition of bioenergy is needed. Bioenergy by itself deosn't need to be living energy per se, nor does it need to be from a living planet, simply one that is capable of sustaining life. It's possible (and also makes a certain amount of sense) that Galactus can draw upon any kind of energy that sustains life. In that sense, hyperspace is possible, as celestials are basically embodiments of hyperspace, in addition to Hyperstorm. Of course, the definition of life-sustaining energy would then get a bit mucky, as all energy is theoretically life-sustaining.

IIRC, there was an arc which described Galactus as the catalyst which led to the creation of the next universe, wasn't there? The one with Nova. If so, it is possible that Galactus' need for energy isn't just for sustenance, but for a fundamental creational need. That, of course, contradicts with the death of any Galactus on panel which did not lead to a new universe (looking at Abraxas here, which I agree was probably a little too contrived a reason for G's well-being). I'm guessing that the true answer lies somewhere in the role that Galactus actually plays, though.



Wasn't the cosmic consonance simply the fabric that holds a formless universe together? All that order from chaos and intent from order stuff? I'm honestly not sure how G's purpose correlates with that, though. On that case, from a layman's point of view, what exactly does the balance between Death and Eternity (time incarnate) entail exactly? Understanding that could go a long way to understanding G, I reckon.

As far as the Fulcrum goes, if evolution is the purpose of the Fulcrum, it could be taken to be under the evolutionary umbrella of the consonance, even though I am personally doubtful if that isn't a coincidental correlation.

Naija boy
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I think Thanos shields are wrote very consistently and shown to be very strong. If it just depleted them with no explanation on why or how that was possible you would have more of a point. However, Big G's own words speak to why that happened and thus it's plausible and not some PIS. He said he's never had to work so hard to break a force field. You can take that statement very easily to mean it's the toughest shield he's tried to break in his long long existence. You can take it or interrupt it how you want but clearly Big G (writer) was trying to convey the messgae that he hadn't encountered such a force field and thus it draining him doesn't seem that far fetched at all. Then when you consider when Thanos's shields did against a being said to be more powerful then Galactus in Omega and how it held up to his pissed off continuous blast it seem like his shields are that damn strong.
Thanos shields did stand up to omega but he was hardly drained or anything even close after the attack. His shields are powerful no doubt but a supposedly nourished galactus depleting his energies to pierce them is pretty ridiculous. Even considering galactus statement that he had never had to work so hard to pierce a forcefield it is still a huge low showing to think that he depleted most of his vital energies doing it. Further we also then have to consider that the arc as a whole was rife with PIS and ridiculous moments and that galactus was portrayed at a much lower level than usual (nourished level that is).

Galan007
Originally posted by leonidas
i think i agree with most of that, but it just doesn't have much practical relevence. does he have the CAPACITY to devour the universe or beyond? maybe, i guess. could he willingly do so whenever he chose to do so? based on all his showings, based on how weak we've seen him in the past, and how desperately he's needed to feed? no. at his weakest he's needed to be practically carried to a planet to regain his energy. why not just start absorbing the universe--even a small part of it to sustain himself?

i've always sort of speculated that maybe he COULD absorb parts of the universe, but it simply wouldn't sustain him since it's not biospheric energy. doesn't really make sense since he's devoured dimensions though, so, i don't know. does that mean everytime we see him near death it's because he CHOOSES to be that weak? is it all just PIS whenever he is weak? meh, i'd rather not say that.

what i DO know is that his hunger WAS altered by the celestial, that that version of galactus WAS changed, and hence what THAT version did and was capable of doing really has no bearing on what the normal galactus would/might do.

he may have the CAPACITY to absorb the universe+, but practically speaking (and for purposes of this match) that capacity is meaningless. thumb up

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Naija boy
Thanos shields did stand up to omega but he was hardly drained or anything even close after the attack. His shields are powerful no doubt but a supposedly nourished galactus depleting his energies to pierce them is pretty ridiculous. Even considering galactus statement that he had never had to work so hard to pierce a forcefield it is still a huge low showing to think that he depleted most of his vital energies doing it. Further we also then have to consider that the arc as a whole was rife with PIS and ridiculous moments and that galactus was portrayed at a much lower level than usual (nourished level that is).

I agree that there were certainly some PIS, make you go what moments in that arc. I do agree with that. First, in the Omega instance we really don't know if he was drained or not. Thanos shields held up but were failing. He then gave the word which set in motion the chain of events that lead to Omegas defeat. It wasn't said it did or didn't drain him which isn't proof one way or the other. For all we know it could've drained him and thus that helped lead to his defeat. I was simply giving you another example of a comparable being in power that struggled to breach Thanos shields and more then likely also drained him. Furthermore, we don't know how much it drained Big G. Obviously enough that the writer wanted to convey his shields were strong and Big G needed to feed. However, he still put in work shortly after that encounter so I doubt it was most of his vital energies. Certainly enough though that he commented on it and wanted to feed. Either way I do agree there were some weird moments in that arc.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Ouallada
That, of course, contradicts with the death of any Galactus on panel which did not lead to a new universe (looking at Abraxas here, which I agree was probably a little too contrived a reason for G's well-being). I'm guessing that the true answer lies somewhere in the role that Galactus actually plays, though.

Galactus didn't die in the Abraxas act but was transmuted into a sun, we can call that killed, however I think that would be a wrong definition given the circumstances imo.

"I'm destined to give back the universe indefinitely more then I have taken"

Badabing
Stops at Batman, er JLA 1m. sneer

Ouallada
Originally posted by Utrigita
Galactus didn't die in the Abraxas act but was transmuted into a sun, we can call that killed, however I think that would be a wrong definition given the circumstances imo.

"I'm destined to give back the universe indefinitely more then I have taken"

I was actually referring to the dead Galactuses that we saw on panel.

gobstakid777
if he's at absolutely full power i think he can rip through all of them like wet tissue

Utrigita
Originally posted by Ouallada
I was actually referring to the dead Galactuses that we saw on panel.

The dead Galactus from a alternate reality?

Mr Master
Originally posted by leonidas

i think i agree with most of that
smile
Originally posted by leonidas

but it just doesn't have much practical relevence.
sad .. and I disagree.
Originally posted by leonidas

does he have the CAPACITY to devour the universe or beyond? maybe, i guess. could he willingly do so whenever he chose to do so? based on all his showings, based on how weak we've seen him in the past, and how desperately he's needed to feed? no.
I disagree, due to the Hyperstorm showing.

Galactus was literally feeding on the energies of Hyperspace through Hyperstorm,
which is a realm/dimension of its own that would've kept Galactus satiated forever.
Of course, in order to bring back Galactus to a meaninglful role in the Marvel Universe,
he disconnected himself from said source for some PIS reason.
This move by writers was obviously meant to keep Galactus interesting.
(remember, all powerful characters can become boring real quick,
this is why most don't last past a single arc)
Originally posted by leonidas

at his weakest he's needed to be practically carried to a planet to regain his energy. why not just start absorbing the universe--even a small part of it to sustain himself?
To make a story.

If Galactus had no weakness on panel, he'd be boring,
it's only in a Forum setting where we can waive those comic book induced restrictions.
Originally posted by leonidas

i've always sort of speculated that maybe he COULD absorb parts of the universe, but it simply wouldn't sustain him since it's not biospheric energy. doesn't really make sense since he's devoured dimensions though, so, i don't know.
He could probably sunder a Universe inadvertantly by absorbing a portion of it,
so he chosses not to for the sake of that reality,
not saying that's the reason
but it is a plausible possibility considering Marvel's cosmological makeup.

But that aside, it could simply be like I said before, (most sensible reason imo)
the story ... Galactus is usually dealing with average superhoeroes,
so PIS is necessary,
otherwise he would vaporize them all on the first page,
like he did in a 'What If' (which was surprisingly a PIS free environment)
when he engages someone of significance,
writers loosen their grip on those comic book restrictions,
like when he battle the In-Betweener, or when he battled Ego,
or when he battled Aggy, who he stalemated withIN Aggy's dimension,
or Mephisto, which he ended up nearly absorbing Meph's entire pocket Universe.
Originally posted by leonidas

does that mean everytime we see him near death it's because he CHOOSES to be that weak? is it all just PIS whenever he is weak? meh, i'd rather not say that.
It's PIS imo.

Galactus should always have access to energy,
by simply absorbing reality (time/space and all inbetween)
which we know he can do.
Originally posted by leonidas

what i DO know is that his hunger WAS altered by the celestial, that that version of galactus WAS changed, and hence what THAT version did and was capable of doing really has no bearing on what the normal galactus would/might do.
His hunger was the same as it's always been. (insatiable and eternal)
It was his ability to stop himself that changed.
This is why in the Hyperstorm case he would have absorbed energy forever.
Originally posted by leonidas

he may have the CAPACITY to absorb the universe+, but practically speaking (and for purposes of this match) that capacity is meaningless.
Not imo,
since even 616 Galactus has sown on panel the ability to devour time-space,
and the ambient infinite energies of realms like Hyperspace.

Everything I've posted is IMO, according to what I've known/read concerning Galactus.

Also, Galactus did create the next Marvel Universe in an alternate future,
with the infinite energies he contains withIN,
a would-be herald also claimed that Galactus contained a Cosmos withIN,
he literally returned to his natural state which was a Sun made up of infinite energy.

And beyond all this, Galan merged with the Infinity Being,
the creator of the original Omniverse,
this may be why its in Galactus' hands to create the Marvel Universe anew in the end.

Then again,
there are several stories attempting to descibe the end and rebirth of the Marvel Universe,
so who the heck knows.

ColossusGrundy
Darkseid ends it quickly.

Anti Monitor whines about not getting a shot.

JLA goes to sleep watching security monitors.

kgkg
With the conditions outlined he clears it. As for the previous arguments I don't see why people have hard time believing Galactus's absorption abilities. Galactus has actually absorb entities before like the Elders , Celestial , Dimensions etc in a forum environment he will use those tactics.

Eternal Idol
Clears it

leonidas
Originally posted by Mr Master
smile

sad .. and I disagree.

I disagree, due to the Hyperstorm showing.

Galactus was literally feeding on the energies of Hyperspace through Hyperstorm,
which is a realm/dimension of its own that would've kept Galactus satiated forever.
Of course, in order to bring back Galactus to a meaninglful role in the Marvel Universe,
he disconnected himself from said source for some PIS reason.
This move by writers was obviously meant to keep Galactus interesting.
(remember, all powerful characters can become boring real quick,
this is why most don't last past a single arc)

To make a story.

If Galactus had no weakness on panel, he'd be boring,
it's only in a Forum setting where we can waive those comic book induced restrictions.

He could probably sunder a Universe inadvertantly by absorbing a portion of it,
so he chosses not to for the sake of that reality,
not saying that's the reason
but it is a plausible possibility considering Marvel's cosmological makeup.

But that aside, it could simply be like I said before, (most sensible reason imo)
the story ... Galactus is usually dealing with average superhoeroes,
so PIS is necessary,
otherwise he would vaporize them all on the first page,
like he did in a 'What If' (which was surprisingly a PIS free environment)
when he engages someone of significance,
writers loosen their grip on those comic book restrictions,
like when he battle the In-Betweener, or when he battled Ego,
or when he battled Aggy, who he stalemated withIN Aggy's dimension,
or Mephisto, which he ended up nearly absorbing Meph's entire pocket Universe.

It's PIS imo.

Galactus should always have access to energy,
by simply absorbing reality (time/space and all inbetween)
which we know he can do.

His hunger was the same as it's always been. (insatiable and eternal)
It was his ability to stop himself that changed.
This is why in the Hyperstorm case he would have absorbed energy forever.

Not imo,
since even 616 Galactus has sown on panel the ability to devour time-space,
and the ambient infinite energies of realms like Hyperspace.

Everything I've posted is IMO, according to what I've known/read concerning Galactus.

Also, Galactus did create the next Marvel Universe in an alternate future,
with the infinite energies he contains withIN,
a would-be herald also claimed that Galactus contained a Cosmos withIN,
he literally returned to his natural state which was a Sun made up of infinite energy.

And beyond all this, Galan merged with the Infinity Being,
the creator of the original Omniverse,
this may be why its in Galactus' hands to create the Marvel Universe anew in the end.

Then again,
there are several stories attempting to descibe the end and rebirth of the Marvel Universe,
so who the heck knows.

that's FAR too much PIS for me to stomach. i don't think we can resort to PIS when something has been shown so many times. and it is part of galactus's character--if he doesn't feed on planets, he starves and dies. this is from the newest godhunter:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9076/brb0307.jpg

"power is not the same as sustenence." so even if he COULD draw and absorb ambient energy, it wouldn't sustain him and he'd die. he could probably have absorbed mephisto's realm and not have been sustained at all. he also does not have an infinite source of energy (he used his "core energy" to sustain himself during annhilation)--or if he does, as i said earlier, it's irrelevent as he can't use it to sustain himself or even prevent his own death, as is again confirmed in the scan above.

interestingly enough, ss said if he did die, he would have taken out an area of the universe 42 light years wide, so clearly he does have energy reserves that he is unable to access--assuming ss was telling the truth, and not simply trying to gain bill's aid. but ss never mentioned anything about his becoming a sun, and obviously the energy wasn't infinite. so, either death of galactus has been retconned, or this newest stuff is wrong. can't really be both and i see no reason why death would take precedence over this newer material. erm

darthgoober
Originally posted by leonidas
that's FAR too much PIS for me to stomach. i don't think we can resort to PIS when something has been shown so many times. and it is part of galactus's character--if he doesn't feed on planets, he starves and dies. this is from the newest godhunter:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9076/brb0307.jpg

"power is not the same as sustenence." so even if he COULD draw and absorb ambient energy, it wouldn't sustain him and he'd die. he could probably have absorbed mephisto's realm and not have been sustained at all. he also does not have an infinite source of energy (he used his "core energy" to sustain himself during annhilation)--or if he does, as i said earlier, it's irrelevent as he can't use it to sustain himself or even prevent his own death, as is again confirmed in the scan above.

interestingly enough, ss said if he did die, he would have taken out an area of the universe 42 light years wide, so clearly he does have energy reserves that he is unable to access--assuming ss was telling the truth, and not simply trying to gain bill's aid. but ss never mentioned anything about his becoming a sun, and obviously the energy wasn't infinite. so, either death of galactus has been retconned, or this newest stuff is wrong. can't really be both and i see no reason why death would take precedence over this newer material. erm
IDK leo... I agree with the whole "it can't always be PIS" in regards to things like Wolverine being able to take punches from major bricks, but when we're talking about the TRUE definition of PIS(when a character "forgets" that he has abilities at his disposal that will render the plot useless), frequency of occurrence doesn't seem to apply. For instance, Flash not using his speed as effectively against non-speedsters in comics is ALWAYS PIS. It doesn't matter how many times he DOESN'T effectively blitz his foe or is tagged by someone with virtually no super speed to speak of, we can't consider that valid on the forum regardless of how many times it happens. Marvel doesn't want to render Galactus useless as a character anymore than DC wants to do the same with Flash. Both companies want EVERY book to sell as much as possible, they're not going to throw in boring stories(like Galactus just sitting around or a Flash comic that only last two pages) that will gather dust on the shelves just so people people on the Internet can see that their past feats still apply.

leonidas
Originally posted by darthgoober
IDK leo... I agree with the whole "it can't always be PIS" in regards to things like Wolverine being able to take punches from major bricks, but when we're talking about the TRUE definition of PIS(when a character "forgets" that he has abilities at his disposal that will render the plot useless), frequency of occurrence doesn't seem to apply. For instance, Flash not using his speed as effectively against non-speedsters in comics is ALWAYS PIS. It doesn't matter how many times he DOESN'T effectively blitz his foe or is tagged by someone with virtually no super speed to speak of, we can't consider that valid on the forum regardless of how many times it happens. Marvel doesn't want to render Galactus useless as a character anymore than DC wants to do the same with Flash. Both companies want EVERY book to sell as much as possible, they're not going to throw in boring stories(like Galactus just sitting around or a Flash comic that only last two pages) that will gather dust on the shelves just so people people on the Internet can see that their past feats still apply.

it's a valid point, but one i don't subscribe to. in flash's case, it's IN CHARACTER for him not to blitz and hit everyone with an instant IMP. even on the forum, cis is in effect. if something happens consistently in any character, it becomes in character. that's not pis.

the galactus case is much different. there have only been a couple of times (relatively) where energy other than biosphereic energy has been proven to be able to sustain him. he even went so far as to try and gain the gems to eliminate his hunger. because it has been only a couple times, THOSE cases are more easily labelled pis. for instance--if g was starving (as he was in godhunter) and simply decided to start absorbing the space around him, or a star, and when he was done he was suddenly fine and fully powered, that showing would render all previous showings of him starving from lack of sustenence . . . meaningless. or if he suddenly started feeding on his own 'infinite' energy, that would also render all previous showings meaningless. not everything that doesn't make sense in a comicbook world needs to be labelled pis. consistency allows for suspension of disbelief and defines the character.

Blanket
Galactus has absorbed a star's energy before... ermm

Also, here's a simple scan:
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/?action=view&current=R26007.jpg

He absorbs planet's because it's such a concentration of huge energy. Not because that's all he can do. And absorbing a planet is easier than trying to absorb space when he's really starving, and not to mention, might not work/give enough energy off.

leonidas
Originally posted by Blanket
Galactus has absorbed a star's energy before... ermm

Also, here's a simple scan:
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Energy%20manipulation/Absorbing/?action=view&current=R26007.jpg

He absorbs planet's because it's such a concentration of huge energy. Not because that's all he can do. And absorbing a planet is easier than trying to absorb space when he's really starving, and not to mention, might not work/give enough energy off.

a planet has more energy than a star? no expression

and i never said he couldn't absorb energy. i said that PRIMARILY throughout his history he absorbs energy from planets to sustain himself, and that without said energy, he dies. my scan shows and makes the distinction between what he can absorb, and what can grant him SUSTENENCE.

i do NOT think it's pis that he starves without planets since it has been consistently shown he needs a planet's biosphereic energy to survive. masters and goob seem to think any time he is starving and doesn't simply absorb . . . whatever is around him, it IS pis.

the debate is less about what he can absorb and more about what you consider pis.

Blanket
Originally posted by leonidas
a planet has more energy than a star? no expression

and i never said he couldn't absorb energy. i said that PRIMARILY throughout his history he absorbs energy from planets to sustain himself, and that without said energy, he dies. my scan shows and makes the distinction between what he can absorb, and what can grant him SUSTENENCE.

i do NOT think it's pis that he starves without planets since it has been consistently shown he needs a planet's biosphereic energy to survive. masters and goob seem to think any time he is starving and doesn't simply absorb . . . whatever is around him, it IS pis.

the debate is less about what he can absorb and more about what you consider pis. I never said that. A planet is more plentiful though, and just saying he can absorb a star.

Ya, because it's a massive source of energy that he's been used to throughout his career. He dies from a depletion of energy, that much has been made clear throughout his run.
It's an off hand comment that requires speculation, said by Surfer... over occurrences where he has been fed off random energy. erm

I don't either.
Absorbing space would be impractical, and where there is stars, there is planets. If a planet can sustain him for a bit, then there's no use of absorbing a sun. Although, what I never got, is why doesn't he just clean out solar systems, but I guess he doesn't need to after he's fed.

PIS is subjective. It's pretty much solid as **** though that he can absorb almost any kind of energy, and feel fed though. The amount of energy needed though is another thing entirely.
My post was mostly in response to the 'THOSE cases are more easily labelled pis' thing.

SoulDevourer
anti-monitor is prolly the only real prob 4 big G but i dunno how powerfull is most recent version o AM (compare to the one that super-Spectre fougth)

darthgoober
Originally posted by leonidas
it's a valid point, but one i don't subscribe to. in flash's case, it's IN CHARACTER for him not to blitz and hit everyone with an instant IMP. even on the forum, cis is in effect. if something happens consistently in any character, it becomes in character. that's not pis.

the galactus case is much different. there have only been a couple of times (relatively) where energy other than biosphereic energy has been proven to be able to sustain him. he even went so far as to try and gain the gems to eliminate his hunger. because it has been only a couple times, THOSE cases are more easily labelled pis. for instance--if g was starving (as he was in godhunter) and simply decided to start absorbing the space around him, or a star, and when he was done he was suddenly fine and fully powered, that showing would render all previous showings of him starving from lack of sustenence . . . meaningless. or if he suddenly started feeding on his own 'infinite' energy, that would also render all previous showings meaningless. not everything that doesn't make sense in a comicbook world needs to be labelled pis. consistency allows for suspension of disbelief and defines the character.
You might have a point with the IMP since it's something that has the potential to kill his opponent(which is something that's definitely out of character for the Flash, but not so much with the blitz. See while the instances of Flash refraining from an effective blitz aren't numerous, he proved it was "in character" for him to use the tactic the first time he did it. He might not do it as often as he should, but the fact that he's shown both the ability and the inclination in the past when the plot WASN'T dependant on the villain making Flash work for his victory pretty much proves that his failure to do so most of the time is PIS. That's why Flash blitzing is specifically mentioned in the forum rules.

By the same token, since G has shown both the ability and inclination to absorb things other than planets for sustenance we should recognize that he has the ability to do so.

You might be able to make a case that his ability to absorb space itself is an instance of SMvF since he's only done it once, but he's pulled it off with stars too many times to ignore. He might PREFER biospheric energy(maybe it "taste" better) and might actually draw more power from since he uses a machine to increase his efficiently at it(we normally see him absorbing energy from other sources directly), but I don't think we should start taking away a characters established abilities just because they "forget" about them when the plot is on the line(that's the very definition of PIS). Maybe he's just a long range thinker and realizes that there are more planets than there are stars and if he kills an entire solar system by absorbing the sun it means he can't come back in a billion or so years when the planets in the solar system would have otherwise reached the point that he could feast on them.

leonidas
Originally posted by darthgoober
You might have a point with the IMP since it's something that has the potential to kill his opponent(which is something that's definitely out of character for the Flash, but not so much with the blitz. See while the instances of Flash refraining from an effective blitz aren't numerous, he proved it was "in character" for him to use the tactic the first time he did it. He might not do it as often as he should, but the fact that he's shown both the ability and the inclination in the past when the plot WASN'T dependant on the villain making Flash work for his victory pretty much proves that his failure to do so most of the time is PIS. That's why Flash blitzing is specifically mentioned in the forum rules.

still not buying it. if he generally doesn't do it, and only does it periodically, then by definition it is consistent for him NOT to blitz. if it's the norm and not the exception it's in character and not pis to me.



ability, yes. inclination? not even close. he is the 'planet devourer'. his entire existence is based around devouring planets. there is absolutely no grounds to say it is easier for g to absorb a planet. the star should clearly sustain him better. so why doesn't he devour stars instead? pis? i don't think so. otherwise, all stories with him in it, where he's starving and needs energy are again meaningless. you'll NEVER convince me that's the case.



to the point where he is literally going to DIE because of a 'preference'? again, not buying that at all.



or that's the writer remaining consistent with the character's history. i really don't see how you can call consistent portrayal pis. pis is the exception, not the norm.



again, to the point where he's willing to ALLOW himself to die? nah. to me consistency and a lack thereof, defines what is or is not pis. to look at it your way renders the stories pointless. worse even, rather than enhancing the plot (which is what you're saying it's done for) it actually LESSENS the plot. a weakness is granted to a character to ENHANCE that character and our ability as readers to relate to the character. a 'perceived weakness' is NOT really a weakness at all, hence works CONTRARY to what a writer wants to achieve.

meh. call it pis if you want, and if you're willing to render all the previous stories meaningless. i choose NOT to view it as pis, and would rather let consistent characterization speak for itself.

leonidas
Originally posted by Blanket
It's an off hand comment that requires speculation, said by Surfer... over occurrences where he has been fed off random energy. erm

after working for g for what, 100s or even 1000s of years, i think ss is pretty knowledgeable . . .



of course he can. i said there is apparently a difference between what he can absorb and what can SUSTAIN him though.



if g were starving and suddenly started to devour the space around him, as has been suggested he could do, (and because he does NOT it has even been labeled PIS) after all the times we've seen him starving and NOT eat the space around him, that would be very much out of character. pis? depends on how you define it, i guess, but a case could be made for it. and if he suddenly DID do that, why DIDN'T he do it all the times before? too slippery a slope for me.

Creshosk
Originally posted by leonidas
after working for g for what, 100s or even 1000s of years, i think ss is pretty knowledgeable . . .



of course he can. i said there is apparently a difference between what he can absorb and what can SUSTAIN him though.



if g were starving and suddenly started to devour the space around him, as has been suggested he could do, (and because he does NOT it has even been labeled PIS) after all the times we've seen him starving and NOT eat the space around him, that would be very much out of character. pis? depends on how you define it, i guess, but a case could be made for it. and if he suddenly DID do that, why DIDN'T he do it all the times before? too slippery a slope for me. That's a good point, if he can just absorb space why does he need heralds to find him planets that are suitable for him?

AlmightyKfish
Originally posted by Creshosk
That's a good point, if he can just absorb space why does he need heralds to find him planets that are suitable for him?

Probably because absorbing space might damage reality/Eternity, something Galactus wouldn't want to do.

leonidas
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Probably because absorbing space might damage reality/Eternity, something Galactus wouldn't want to do.

again, to the point where he'd willingly ALLOW himself to die before doing so? after it's being established how vital his role is to the universe and even FUTURE universes? doesn't really work for me. erm

darthgoober
Originally posted by leonidas
still not buying it. if he generally doesn't do it, and only does it periodically, then by definition it is consistent for him NOT to blitz. if it's the norm and not the exception it's in character and not pis to me.
Flash fights lasting longer than 2 panels is specifically mentioned in the forum rules as an example of a forum's example of PIS. There's no way you can argue about consistency when it's specifically mentioned. It being mentioned like that is better proof that it constitutes PIS REGARDLESS of consistency than anything else someone might bring up. It may not be the what leaps to your mind as Plot Induced Stupidity, but it's the standard we're given to follow.

Originally posted by leonidas
ability, yes. inclination? not even close. he is the 'planet devourer'. his entire existence is based around devouring planets. there is absolutely no grounds to say it is easier for g to absorb a planet. the star should clearly sustain him better. so why doesn't he devour stars instead? pis? i don't think so. otherwise, all stories with him in it, where he's starving and needs energy are again meaningless. you'll NEVER convince me that's the case.
Has he ever done it? If so, he's shown the inclination. He may not have the inclination to do it all the time, but to discover that we'd have to look at all the circumstances he showed it to be "in character" for him to do it.

Originally posted by leonidas
to the point where he is literally going to DIE because of a 'preference'? again, not buying that at all.
Being in the face of death doesn't mean much. I mean how many times have we seen someone Green Lantern or Surfer refrain from healing themselves despite being on the verge of Death?

Originally posted by leonidas
or that's the writer remaining consistent with the character's history. i really don't see how you can call consistent portrayal pis. pis is the exception, not the norm.
True PIS isn't dictated by consistency though, what you're talking about is closer to SMvF. Thor's refrained from using his hammers powers on numerous occasions, that doesn't mean that we assume his hammer "lost" those powers outside of the stories they were featured in.

Originally posted by leonidas
again, to the point where he's willing to ALLOW himself to die? nah. to me consistency and a lack thereof, defines what is or is not pis. to look at it your way renders the stories pointless. worse even, rather than enhancing the plot (which is what you're saying it's done for) it actually LESSENS the plot. a weakness is granted to a character to ENHANCE that character and our ability as readers to relate to the character. a 'perceived weakness' is NOT really a weakness at all, hence works CONTRARY to what a writer wants to achieve.

meh. call it pis if you want, and if you're willing to render all the previous stories meaningless. i choose NOT to view it as pis, and would rather let consistent characterization speak for itself. .
And if every writer were on the same page I'm sure little inconsistencies like that wouldn't exist, but unfortunately not all of them are. Even when we're talking about SMvF, if the character does it multiple times under multiple writers it doesn't qualify.

leonidas
Originally posted by darthgoober
Flash fights lasting longer than 2 panels is specifically mentioned in the forum rules as an example of a forum's example of PIS. There's no way you can argue about consistency when it's specifically mentioned. It being mentioned like that is better proof that it constitutes PIS REGARDLESS of consistency than anything else someone might bring up. It may not be the what leaps to your mind as Plot Induced Stupidity, but it's the standard we're given to follow.

meh, i don't need the forum to dictate to me what is or isn't pis. so i guess we'll agree to disagree, and i'll disagree with the established forum rule as regards flash specifically. since g isn't specifically mentioned though, it is still open for interpretation, and i'll refrain from claiming pis.



huh? if you are INCLINED to do something, you are more likely to do it than not. g is FAR LESS likely to attempt to gain sustenence from anything OTHER the planets.



not really--it's IN CHARACTER for him to be hungry and far weaker than he COULD be were he sated or even mostly sated. i think that has been established so often it is basically axiomatic.



vs how often they've been shown capable of healing themselves when being on the brink of death? beyond that, they don't serve the function galactus does. galatus plays a grand role (theoretically) in the universal scheme. he NEEDS to live.



no one is saying powers are 'lost' at all, but i think the best gauge for whether something is pis or otherwise SHOULD be consistency. smvfl is pis because spidey doesn't consistently beat heralds and fl isn't consistently defeated by low meta characters. on the contrary, logan taking out herc or thor or hulk in straight h2h is NOT pis (as much as people want to say it is) because that is what is consistently shown in brick-style battles when logan is involved. again, what you're saying renders the stories meaningless. you're saying there never really IS a threat, that g never 'really' is in trouble, ever, since he could always just absorb whatever he wanted anytime he wanted. you're also making heralds utterly redundant and meaningless. by rationalizing away his weakness as you have done, you make the character in all his stories pointless. that is simply a choice i choose not to make.




which is why looking at the most consistently depicted characteristics is so important. and i'd disagree completely--if spidey was shown beating a herald multiple times, then it would no longer be pis, imo. it would fall under the same heading as logan vs uber-bricks.

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