Mass Effect Universe vs All Final Fantasy universes except for 13 (explained)

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Hewhoknowsall
In Mass Effect time, scientists are experimenting with wormholes when they accidentally make one to the FF universes minus 13 since it isn't out yet and is an unknown. Then for some reason they decide to fight because the FF universes want to destroy the Mass Effect universe...sorry, don't have time to make a better story...

This is an ARMY vs ARMY battle, characters are allowed too except for omnipotents/near omnipotents (if there are any...)

Who wins?

ArtificialGlory
Does any of the FF games have spaceships of any kind?

KingD19
They have airships, but nothing man made so far has broken the atmosphere as far as I know.

Peach
Originally posted by KingD19
They have airships, but nothing man made so far has broken the atmosphere as far as I know.
Parts of FFIV take place on the moon.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Peach
Parts of FFIV take place on the moon.

???

Really?

BoratBorat
With the reapers in the ME universe i don't think the FFIV world would be able to beat ME.

I mean come on a single reaper could with stand the might of an entire fleet and we have thousands of them.

Peach
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
???

Really?

Um, yeah. You didn't know that?

Also, there really is no 'Final Fantasy' universe, as the majority of games are completely disconnected from each other and take place on different worlds.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Peach
Um, yeah. You didn't know that?

Also, there really is no 'Final Fantasy' universe, as the majority of games are completely disconnected from each other and take place on different worlds.

Right, so which is why I used plural.

But really, them being able to land on the moon doesn't compare with the ME universe being able to go at faster than light travel.

Cyner
Each FF team summons their version of Bahamut Zero and then they shoots space lasers and it kills all the Mass Effect people. The end.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Cyner
Each FF team summons their version of Bahamut Zero and then they shoots space lasers and it kills all the Mass Effect people. The end.

...

Huh?

I'll assume that you are joking.

NemeBro
In FFVIII they have gone to space, and in the FFverse there are universal-multiversal characters, but I assume they are out.

Seriously though, the legions of Reapers make this fight completely unwinnable by every definition of the word.

Hewhoknowsall
Okay then...what if, just to be fair, we only allow in the Humans Systems Alliance?

LOL still one-sided, but less so than before.

NemeBro
Barely.

They have no way to combat an assault from its ships.

Nemesis X
Sephiroth can solo the Mass Effect Universe no expression

Phanteros
Originally posted by Nemesis X
Sephiroth can solo the Mass Effect Universe no expression Thats a good joke man, a good joke.

fascistcrusader
Define "near omnipotent." I'm going to assume this means no TC Ultimecia and Exdeath with the Void, but are you allowing characters like God Kefka, Trance Kuja and AC Sephiroth?

Nemesis X
Originally posted by Phanteros
Thats a good joke man, a good joke.

Oh really? I didn't know everyone is Mass Effect is a demi-God.

Phanteros
Originally posted by Nemesis X
Oh really? I didn't know everyone is Mass Effect is a demi-God. You can say the same about the Soveireign and no Sephiroth is just a mutated alien parasite. Being a Demi god nothing but a mere title unless you have something to back it up.

Nemesis X
Originally posted by Phanteros
You can say the same about the Soveireign and no Sephiroth is just a mutated alien parasite. Being a Demi god nothing but a mere title unless you have something to back it up.

Sephiroth can slice a building into little pieces in seconds, he can drive planets, his will is powerful enough to ressurect him whenever.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Nemesis X
Sephiroth can slice a building into little pieces in seconds, he can drive planets, his will is powerful enough to ressurect him whenever.

I wonder how that would work against a Reaper ship. If Sovereign is anything to go by, they are very tough nuggets.

Phanteros
Originally posted by Nemesis X
Sephiroth can slice a building into little pieces in seconds, he can drive planets, his will is powerful enough to ressurect him whenever. Which takes three years to do so. anyway Your saying a starship is like a building is fail so I'm not ever going to address that. Reapers use planets as resources and their are millions of of them so again pointless.

Nemesis X
Originally posted by Phanteros
Which takes three years to do so. anyway Your saying a starship is like a building is fail so I'm not ever going to address that. Reapers use planets as resources and their are millions of of them so again pointless.

Um, the thread maker never did say all the Reapers so congratulations on making yourself look silly.

Since only one Reaper has shown itself in Mass Effect, Sovereign is the only Reaper in this fight and Omega can easily dispose of that oversized tin can while Sephiroth can easily destroy all the other ME characters.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Nemesis X
Um, the thread maker never did say all the Reapers so congratulations on making yourself look silly.

Since only one Reaper has shown itself in Mass Effect, Sovereign is the only Reaper in this fight and Omega can easily dispose of that oversized tin can while Sephiroth can easily destroy all the other ME characters.

The OP should clarify that.

Phanteros
Originally posted by Nemesis X
Um, the thread maker never did say all the Reapers so congratulations on making yourself look silly.

Since only one Reaper has shown itself in Mass Effect, Sovereign is the only Reaper in this fight and Omega can easily dispose of that oversized tin can while Sephiroth can easily destroy all the other ME characters. Its said the universe in the thread title so it means all of the reapers my good friend. and how seeing as A Omega's only feat is removing life stream and making the shields that can be brought down easily in the right fire . how is sephiroth going to attack a bunch of ships IN SPACE? And I'm pretty sure he meant all of the reapers.

Nemesis X
Originally posted by Phanteros
Its said the universe in the thread title so it means all of the reapers my good friend. and how seeing as A Omega's only feat is removing life stream and making the shields that can be brought down easily in the right fire . how is sephiroth going to attack a bunch of ships IN SPACE? And I'm pretty sure he meant all of the reapers.

Do we even know the total number of Reapers in Mass Effect? If no one can think of a number then it's like saying there's an infinite amount of them which wouldn't be fair and shouldn't be allowed.

fascistcrusader
I'll take this Sephiroth discussion to mean most final bosses are allowed. Trance Kuja and God Kefka have enough firepower to sit back and pick off fleets of ships and anything that they would land, so the balance is pretty much in FF's favor.

Phanteros
Originally posted by Nemesis X
Do we even know the total number of Reapers in Mass Effect? If no one can think of a number then it's like saying there's an infinite amount of them which wouldn't be fair and shouldn't be allowed. a galaxy full ofi them obviously

Nemesis X
Originally posted by Phanteros
a galaxy full ofi them obviously

Yeah but what's the number?

NemeBro
A single Dreadnought's cannon can fire a slug that has three times the destructive power as an atomic bomb.

The only character who may survive that is Kuja, and he cannot handle every Alliance ship, let alone the rest of the verse.

fascistcrusader
Three times the power of an atomic time isn't all that impressive next to a being that can glass a planet's surface in minutes and the literal god of magic.

Nephthys
Yes, yes it is.

Ms.Marvel
its more impressive actually. especially if you take into consideration that one slug can do that, ships can fire multiple slugs... and theres multiple ships. so... technically a fleet of Dreadnoughts can glass a planet in seconds..

ArtificialGlory
I doubt they're that powerful. There was nothing even remotely close to 3 nukes going of when Sovereign was getting shot at from all directions.

Ms.Marvel
technically there shouldnt be an explosion at all considering theyre in space... any visible explosion there would be would be a fraction of the size it would be in an enviroment with air to travel through.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
technically there shouldnt be an explosion at all considering theyre in space... any visible explosion there would be would be a fraction of the size it would be in an enviroment with air to travel through.

Well, there was a very clear explosion when Sovereign was finally destroyed.

fascistcrusader
Three atomic bombs isn't very impressive even by todays standards. An atomic bomb is a fission powered weapon, much weaker than today's thermonuclear fusion based weapons. Three A bombs would only destroy outright an are with a diameter of about 2.25 miles. Even with 50 ships it would take hours to glass a planets surface using this weapon.

Even with this, like most Sci Fi weapons the energy is probably concentrated and doesn't spread out like a nuclear explosion. The turbolasers of Star Wars, for example, have energy outputs in gigatons according to official materials. This is far greater than the most powerful thermonuclear weapons of today, but they only affect a very small area because the energy is packed into one location.

Then even after this, Kuja's durability is ridiculously high, he tanked a nuke like barrage from Bahamut with nothing but a scratch on his forehead, and in Trance he's even more powerful. My money says he'd laugh off hits from these weapons while Ultima-ing them into oblivion

Then they'd have to deal with God Kefka, a being with all of the magic in his world with enough power to do things like rearrange the continents on a whim or nuke cities from across the globe simply because they didn't like him. He would lay waste to any ship thrown his way.

Then there's AC Sephiroth, who could just teleport into or phase through the walls of any ship and cut down everyone inside unopposed. Heck, he might be able to just cut the ships in half.

Then to add to this unholy trifecta, you've got summoned beasts to deal with, creatures like the Cloud of Darkness that can destroy all life in the world, and things like Sin, which is basically a whole fleet's worth of firepower in on monster.

Hewhoknowsall
*sigh*

LOL this wasn't supposed to be 100% serious...I mean, it's a total spite against FF.

MODERN Earth would pretty much pwn the final fantasy armies...maybe not some of the bosses, but the armies and most enemies would go down hard.

Now you're taking a space age galaxy with FTL travel...and people are actually arguing for FF?

Can Sephiroth travel at FTL speeds? Can he breathe in space? If either of these he cannot do, then he's a non-factor.

Can ANYONE in FF travel at FTL speeds? I don't remember any that can. Therefore, they are all non-factors, because they'll just sit on their planets and do...nothing.

Even if Mass Effect universe somehow can't defeat the FF forces, they'll advance technologically and wait. FF dudes can't take over a galactic civilization, so they'll just wait...but they won't advance. So eventually in a couple hundred years Mass Effect universe will return with FAR superior weaponry than before and pwn FF universe.

fascistcrusader
If we were only talking generic armies like ShinRa, Gestahlian Empire, Palamecian Empire, Baron, etc it would be spite, but the fact that FF has so many demigods tips the balance in that universes favor. AC Sephiroth can teleport, which is better than FTL travel, and he can breath in space. He is purely Jenova cells and mako in AC, and Jenova is a veteran space traveler.

The problem is that when you have god like beings against you it doesn't really matter how many ships you have, Trance Kuja alone is a better asset than a thousand spaceships.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
If we were only talking generic armies like ShinRa, Gestahlian Empire, Palamecian Empire, Baron, etc it would be spite, but the fact that FF has so many demigods tips the balance in that universes favor. AC Sephiroth can teleport, which is better than FTL travel, and he can breath in space. He is purely Jenova cells and mako in AC, and Jenova is a veteran space traveler.

The problem is that when you have god like beings against you it doesn't really matter how many ships you have, Trance Kuja alone is a better asset than a thousand spaceships.

Teleportation =/= able to go anywhere. Is there any proof that he can teleport across galaxies? And exactly how is he going to survive repeated blasts from shells 3 times the power of a nuclear weapon from hundreds of thousands of miles away?

And I searched up Trance Kuja...apparently he gets beaten by your party.

Much of your party uses swords/etc.

Your party would've had absolutely no chance against a thousand space ships.

And can he travel at FTL speeds?

ScreamPaste
Teleporting is not FTL, lol.

Cyner
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Teleportation =/= able to go anywhere. Is there any proof that he can teleport across galaxies? And exactly how is he going to survive repeated blasts from shells 3 times the power of a nuclear weapon from hundreds of thousands of miles away?

And I searched up Trance Kuja...apparently he gets beaten by your party.

Much of your party uses swords/etc.

Your party would've had absolutely no chance against a thousand space ships.

And can he travel at FTL speeds?

In dbz they use punches and kicks that shatter mountains. that seems more powerful than an atomic bomb.

Just think of Final Fantasy as a fantasy based DBZ, cause that's what a lot of the characters are like.

fascistcrusader
No, I'm afraid Trance Kuja actually is never defeated at any point in FF IX. To the contrary, he just gets fed up with dealing with the party and literally kills them with a single Ultima spell.

And yes, Scream, teleportation is faster than FTL, because there is nothing faster than instantly. Going double the speed of light it would still take years to reach the nearest star, teleporting there is instantaneous. I'm afraid science wins over your silly logic here.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Cyner
In dbz they use punches and kicks that shatter mountains. that seems more powerful than an atomic bomb.

Just think of Final Fantasy as a fantasy based DBZ, cause that's what a lot of the characters are like.

...

that isn't really an argument.

So what if DBZ characters >>>>>>>> atomic bombs? What are you trying to say? Final Fantasy characters are nowhere near DBZ characters in strength, so this doesn't prove anything.

FF characters can't travel at FTL, so they can't actually strike back at a galactic force.

fascistcrusader
What are you trying to set up here, HWKA? Are you saying this fight is just the fleet jumping in, shooting a couple times, then jumping away like a bunch of whipped dogs? That's not a victory, it's a forfeit. If this is an actual battle the fleet would set up shop, where it'd be easy pickings for the demigods of the FF verses. And if you're still convinced that FF loses, we'll just let Exdeath w/Void in on this, all he'd have to do is think and the entirety of the Mass Effect fleet would be erased from existence.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
What are you trying to set up here, HWKA? Are you saying this fight is just the fleet jumping in, shooting a couple times, then jumping away like a bunch of whipped dogs? That's not a victory, it's a forfeit. If this is an actual battle the fleet would set up shop, where it'd be easy pickings for the demigods of the FF verses. And if you're still convinced that FF loses, we'll just let Exdeath w/Void in on this, all he'd have to do is think and the entirety of the Mass Effect fleet would be erased from existence.

A war isn't simply "who's more powerful!!!!" (which, BTW, would still go to Mass Effect). There's stuff such as tactics, strategy, logistics, etc.

Logistically, FF universe can't possibly invade the Mass Effect universe because they don't have FTL capabilities. Therefore, they'll always be on the defensive.

Mass Effect universe advances technologically. The FF universe doesn't. Think about how far the Allies/Axis powers advance in just a few short years. Mass Effect will be like that: their technology would have advanced by quite a bit after a few years of war.

We're talking about space age tech vs medieval age tech + some magic

FF rarely advances, in fact sometimes it regresses.

And what powers does the Void have again?

ScreamPaste
Nah. Speed = distance/time.

Light covers more distance in less time than any FF character teleporting. Teleporting isn't instant, either. It takes the time the character uses to innitiate the teleport. Are you seriously going to debate science with me? For one, the closest things we have for scientific explanations of teleportation do not allow for FTL travel, unless you're Ganon and fold through entire dimensions.

Cyner
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
...

that isn't really an argument.

So what if DBZ characters >>>>>>>> atomic bombs? What are you trying to say? Final Fantasy characters are nowhere near DBZ characters in strength, so this doesn't prove anything.


No it's not an argument, it's a comparison. You said that a FF boss was defeated by a party with that uses swords, swords which you surmise aren't as powerful as the weapons used on the ships of Mass Effect. Which may not true according to canon.

fascistcrusader
A war also isn't "sucker punch the enemy and run away without leaving any real lasting consequences." Technology means nothing when you're fleet is wiped out, if everyone is dead there's no one to advance technology. Trance Kuja has more impressive feats than any ship Mass Effect has, that's just a fact. When Mass Effect ships can rearrange continents like God Kefka can, then tech might make a difference.

And the Void is an infinitely powerful weapon that can erase everything in its path. When Exdeath controlled it he could use it with nothing more than a though, erasing whatever he wished from reality.

@Scream, you're embarassing yourself. There is no shorter travel time than 0, even FTL travel requires more than this. Instant transportation is always faster than moving really fast.

ScreamPaste
No-limit fallacy.
Lost to a party of FF characters immensely weaker than himself.
Not unless you back it up with evidenc,e which you're not. Also, In this case, quantity can be >>> quality, the ships can be in multiple places at once, Kuja cannot. He's one, they're many.

Lol, how about glassing them all simultaneously? Just sayin'.

No, you're embarrassing yourself with your incredible lack of knowledge on the subject oyu're attempting to debate. There's not such thing as "0" in terms of time. Teleportation takes time, and light will always get there faster, unless you fold through dimensions, which FF characters do not do.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
A war also isn't "sucker punch the enemy and run away without leaving any real lasting consequences." Technology means nothing when you're fleet is wiped out, if everyone is dead there's no one to advance technology. Trance Kuja has more impressive feats than any ship Mass Effect has, that's just a fact. When Mass Effect ships can rearrange continents like God Kefka can, then tech might make a difference.

And the Void is an infinitely powerful weapon that can erase everything in its path. When Exdeath controlled it he could use it with nothing more than a though, erasing whatever he wished from reality.

@Scream, you're embarassing yourself. There is no shorter travel time than 0, even FTL travel requires more than this. Instant transportation is always faster than moving really fast.

1. Please provide feats that prove that Kuja can wipe out a fleet of spaceships.

2. If the Void is infinitely powerful, then it isn't allowed, as specified in the opening post.

3. How far of a range can Kefka influence?

4. Teleporation is NOT instantaneous. There isn't any proof of this.

ScreamPaste
^Truf.

Teleportation is not simply appearing somewhere else, you are travelling. It is not instant. 'The fastest' way to teleport is to fold through dimensions, and FF characters cannot do this. Most teleportation, including that used by FF characters, has a limmited range.

Cyner
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
A war also isn't "sucker punch the enemy and run away without leaving any real lasting consequences." Technology means nothing when you're fleet is wiped out, if everyone is dead there's no one to advance technology. Trance Kuja has more impressive feats than any ship Mass Effect has, that's just a fact. When Mass Effect ships can rearrange continents like God Kefka can, then tech might make a difference.

And the Void is an infinitely powerful weapon that can erase everything in its path. When Exdeath controlled it he could use it with nothing more than a though, erasing whatever he wished from reality.



1. War is definitely about sucker punching the enemy. The revolutionary war, Russia's tactics in WW2, and the tactics of terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq prove that guerrilla warfare is very effective.

2. That's not really how the void worked in the game. The void was a place, one that was seemingly empty, without time, gravity, or much of anything. However it was a place and within the void was the "Mirage Town" with time frozen in it. Remember that your party actually had to enter the "void" to confront ExDeath.

ExDeath had the power to suck anything into the Void from seemingly infinite distance and it increased his own power by untold amounts. However the Void does not erase things from existence. It just puts them in the Void. Remember that when you defeat ExDeath all the seemingly "erased" towns and places return.

Hewhoknowsall
So to sum it up:

1. First of all, FF armies are complete non factors, unless if you think that guys with swords can take space age soldiers with guns.

2. Mass Effect universe has FAR greater numbers.

3. Mass Effect universe has FAR greater economic power, with factories and stuff spread across the GALAXY.

4. Mass Effect universe has ships that launch shells 3 times the power of nuclear bombs with a range of hundreds of thousands of kilometers. Wait...actually, according to the codex, their guns actually have unlimited maxinum range in space and will go on indefinately until it hits a big enough object, so really, considering the large size of whatever planets that the FF forces live on, the Mass Effect ships could simply sit star systems away and hit it from a range in which the FF characters can do NOTHING to stop.

5. Final Fantasy has nothing to counter this, except for a few of the bosses...

5. ...many of which are beaten by the protagonist and his/her party, which consists of a few guys with swords/shields/some magic...

6. But all of this is irrelevant, because FF dudes don't have FTL tech, meaning that they have NO hope of actually invading Mass Effect universe. BTW, there is NO proof that teleportation = FTL.

7. Therefore, Mass Effect universe could simply wait for their tech to grow and then attack.

8. Or they simply glass the FF worlds into shreds from hundreds of thousands of miles away.


Either way, FF universe DIES horribly.

fascistcrusader
Cyner, the Void isn't a place. You're thinking of the Interdimensional rift where the Void was hidden.

And why make a thread where the best isn't allowed? What you're trying to do is akin to making a Pee Wee Herman vs Mike Tyson debate but saying Tyson has to be drunk and chained to the floor. That doesn't mean Pee Wee is a better fighter, it means he's cheating, the only difference here is that someone forgot to chain up Mike's arms, Kuja, Kefka, Sephiroth, Sin, CoD, Etc.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Cyner, the Void isn't a place. You're thinking of the Interdimensional rift where the Void was hidden.

And why make a thread where the best isn't allowed? What you're trying to do is akin to making a Pee Wee Herman vs Mike Tyson debate but saying Tyson has to be drunk and chained to the floor. That doesn't mean Pee Wee is a better fighter, it means he's cheating, the only difference here is that someone forgot to chain up Mike's arms, Kuja, Kefka, Sephiroth, Sin, CoD, Etc.

All that I've excluded so far are omnipotents/near omnipotents, which is clearly said in the OP and is a perfectly valid thing to do.

fascistcrusader
If you're going to limit the FF side you should restrict the ME side for balance. Since 99% of FF beings are grounded why not make this a land battle with ME troops vs FF troops?

NemeBro
Lol.

Teleportation takes time to activate the teleportation, FTL is faster than Sephiroth's thought, and it has a range, show me Sephiroth teleporting to another planet, which he clearly cannot do, he has to ride planet's like ships to travel the vastness of space. Not that it matters, ships need a Mass Relay to travel FTL.

But yeah, a Dreadnought bombardment wins this fight, like I said, each slug fired by one strikes with the kinetic energy of 38 kilotons of TNT, thrice that of the Hiroshima bomb, and it can be used nigh-infinitely. Keep in mind this is only an 800 meter Mass Accelerator, larger guns in fact exist, hell, a single one of Sovereign's tentacle guns is more powerful if I recall right.

There are 80 Dreadnoughts in the Citadel forces, not counting the almost limitless amount of Reapers or the Geth, along with non-Citadel races and other ships and forces.

Thing is, FF character's durabilities cannot withstand an assault like that, Sephiroth and Kefka will die, and Kuja will die soon.

Now if ExDeath with the Void, Time Compressed Ultimecia, or Chaos were in this fight, they would solo.

ArtificialGlory
I wonder what kind of weapons Destiny Ascension has? Apparently it boasts almost as much firepower as the rest of the Asari fleet combined.

NemeBro
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I wonder what kind of weapons Destiny Ascension has? Apparently it boasts almost as much firepower as the rest of the Asari fleet combined. This is true.

Guess which Asari Dreadnought was completely annihilated by Sovereign? smile

Keep in mind that there is, according to Sovereign, an almost limitless amount of Reapers.

ScreamPaste
I disagree with this point. Appeal to novelty is a fallacy. In many cases, particularly in fiction, a sword in the right hands is just as effective as a futuristic weapon, particularly in terms of destructive power, swords often show more.

You'd be amazed how far a little magic and old tech goes compared to new tech. But I do agree with the idea behind this. The FF bosses usually lose to opponents they really shouldn't lose to. FF parties are not the most impressive things in gaming, or even close to. But they are clearly more powerful than your typical tech soldier.

I don't think FF wins, but I don't think downplaying old tech is necessary.

NemeBro
Cloud would kick Shepard's ass. For the record.

No seriously, in terms of an all ground battle, the FFverse would completely decimate MEverse.

ScreamPaste
In all ground, yes.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by NemeBro
This is true.

Guess which Asari Dreadnought was completely annihilated by Sovereign? smile

Keep in mind that there is, according to Sovereign, an almost limitless amount of Reapers.

Hmm, I don't remember Destiny Ascension ever firing though.

And yea, no one ship in ME universe can stand up to a Reaper ship.

NemeBro
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Hmm, I don't remember Destiny Ascension ever firing though.

And yea, no one ship in ME universe can stand up to a Reaper ship. Neithe do I, but to destroy the largest, most powerful ship in the Citadel with a single shot, that is ridiculous, and of course we can assume that Sovereign, the largest and most powerful ship in the galaxy, can strike with more force than the Ascension.

Indeed, considering that Sovereign was only a single Reaper, and it took the entire Citadel fleet to destroy him, while he was preoccupied and could not fire his main gun, with the Citadel suffering heavy casualties, says alot.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by NemeBro
Neithe do I, but to destroy the largest, most powerful ship in the Citadel with a single shot, that is ridiculous, and of course we can assume that Sovereign, the largest and most powerful ship in the galaxy, can strike with more force than the Ascension.

Indeed, considering that Sovereign was only a single Reaper, and it took the entire Citadel fleet to destroy him, while he was preoccupied and could not fire his main gun, with the Citadel suffering heavy casualties, says alot.

Truth be told, Sovereign brought some Geth fodder with him.

At any rate, I wonder how much longer would have Sovereign survived if he hadn't used up his power to make Saren his avatar. Because it looked like when Saren was finally killed for good, Sovereign lost power and was destroyed.

Nemesis X
I don't think it's fair that there has to be a galaxy full of Reapers in this fight. It's ridiculous. Are we sure that each and every Reaper is as powerful as Sovereign? Because if they are, then the FF Universe is going to have some majorly heavy casualties.

NemeBro
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Truth be told, Sovereign brought some Geth fodder with him.

At any rate, I wonder how much longer would have Sovereign survived if he hadn't used up his power to make Saren his avatar. Because it looked like when Saren was finally killed for good, Sovereign lost power and was destroyed. True.

That actually is in fact what happened, good call, he was preoccupied with controlling Saren when destroyed by the Normandy.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I disagree with this point. Appeal to novelty is a fallacy. In many cases, particularly in fiction, a sword in the right hands is just as effective as a futuristic weapon, particularly in terms of destructive power, swords often show more.


But how? Let's play out a scenario ground battle:

ME soldiers use drones to scout the perimeter and locate the FF forces.

Meanwhile, FF forces march and send scouts to try and hunt down the ME forces.

Drones run into scouts, drones fire, scouts charge, scouts die.

Now, in the battle:

FF soldiers charge, ME soldiers fire...FF soldiers die. The end. Even if their swords were somehow more powerful than the ME soldiers' guns, they would get shot to bits before they even came close. Their magic also has a relatively lower range and most of them are weaker than ME guns.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste

But they are clearly more powerful than your typical tech soldier.


Battle between Shepard and Vaan:

Vaan runs towards Shepard, Shepard shoots, Vaan dies. Shepard's sniper rifle > the range of Vaan's spells.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Cloud would kick Shepard's ass. For the record.

No seriously, in terms of an all ground battle, the FFverse would completely decimate MEverse.

Please give evidence...

NemeBro
Let's see.

Cloud can move fast enough Shepard will never hit him, and can cut him in half before he can hit him.

A ground battle would take away the ships, which would mean the likes of Kefka and Kuja would wipe out the entire ME militia.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by NemeBro
Let's see.

Cloud can move fast enough Shepard will never hit him, and can cut him in half before he can hit him.

A ground battle would take away the ships, which would mean the likes of Kefka and Kuja would wipe out the entire ME militia.

Cloud maybe, but Cloud's definitely an above average party member...most of them would get pwned by Shepard. And even then Cloud's sword might not be able to penetrate ME armor/shields.

ME "militia"???

Cyner
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Cloud maybe, but Cloud's definitely an above average party member...most of them would get pwned by Shepard. And even then Cloud's sword might not be able to penetrate ME armor/shields.

ME "militia"???

Cloud really isn't that powerful, and compared to other FF Villains Sephiroth is nothing. I think 7 is only popular because it was the first really mainstream FF game. Plus there was a guy with spikey hair and a giant sword. It kind of reminds me how most people's first introduction to LoZ was Ocarina of Time.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Cloud maybe, but Cloud's definitely an above average party member...most of them would get pwned by Shepard. And even then Cloud's sword might not be able to penetrate ME armor/shields.

ME "militia"??? The entire FFVII team would beat his ass. The majority of other FF characters would as well. Cloud's sword will easily penetrate it.

Wrong word. Meant military. Point still stands, the likes of Kefka, Kuja, or Sephiroth will annihilate MEverse's ground verses.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Cyner
Cloud really isn't that powerful, and compared to other FF Villains Sephiroth is nothing. I think 7 is only popular because it was the first really mainstream FF game. Plus there was a guy with spikey hair and a giant sword. It kind of reminds me how most people's first introduction to LoZ was Ocarina of Time. Cloud is the most powerful FF protagonist based on what he has done.

Nemesis X
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Cloud maybe, but Cloud's definitely an above average party member...most of them would get pwned by Shepard. And even then Cloud's sword might not be able to penetrate ME armor/shields.

ME "militia"???

I'm surprised that someone who hasn't played the Final Fantasy games still wants to talk in a Final Fantasy versus thread. The characters in there are fast enough to dodge bullets and here you are saying Shepard can pwn them all. What bullcrap. I demand there to be evidence of Cloud's sword not being able to penetrate ME armor/shields.

Nephthys
ME guns shoot slugs that go much faster than bullets, Cloud has no chance of blocking them.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Nephthys
ME guns shoot slugs that go much faster than bullets, Cloud has no chance of blocking them. They're automatic railguns to be specific.

But the thing is, you can't hit Cloud if you can't line him in your site.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Nemesis X
I'm surprised that someone who hasn't played the Final Fantasy games still wants to talk in a Final Fantasy versus thread. The characters in there are fast enough to dodge bullets and here you are saying Shepard can pwn them all. What bullcrap. I demand there to be evidence of Cloud's sword not being able to penetrate ME armor/shields.

I've played 12 and tactics A2

wtf? Please provide a list of characters that can dodge not bullets, but mass accelerator speed slugs fired at a rapid rate. I'm waiting.

Please show evidence of it being able to. I'm not saying that it can't, I don't know, but I'm asking you for proof that his big sword can penetrate Shepard's shields/armor.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The entire FFVII team would beat his ass. The majority of other FF characters would as well. Cloud's sword will easily penetrate it.

Wrong word. Meant military. Point still stands, the likes of Kefka, Kuja, or Sephiroth will annihilate MEverse's ground verses.

Maybe the uper tier demi-gods like Kefka (most of them however get beaten by your party though and wouldn't make a big enough difference in a ground battle) would help FF win/come very close to winning, but...

ME still has FAR superior numbers, technology and such in a ground battle.

And in an all out war...ME wins very easily.

NemeBro
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Maybe the uper tier demi-gods like Kefka (most of them however get beaten by your party though and wouldn't make a big enough difference in a ground battle) would help FF win/come very close to winning, but...

ME still has FAR superior numbers, technology and such in a ground battle.

And in an all out war...ME wins very easily. Kefka rearranges continents and can destroy cities with single blasts of the Light of Judgment, he can mantain it for longer to destroy what is equivelant to entire countries, Kuja can glass an entire planet under a short period of time, killing every ME troop.

This is true.

This is also true.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by NemeBro
Kefka rearranges continents and can destroy cities with single blasts of the Light of Judgment, he can mantain it for longer to destroy what is equivelant to entire countries, Kuja can glass an entire planet under a short period of time, killing every ME troop.

This is true.

This is also true.

So maybe in a ground battle this Kefka guy seals a win, but if you take him out then ME pwns...

Heck, even with him, can he tank a nuclear barrage?

NemeBro
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
So maybe in a ground battle this Kefka guy seals a win, but if you take him out then ME pwns...

Heck, even with him, can he tank a nuclear barrage? A better question is will they have enough time to activate it before Kefka decimates their forces?

And Kuja can survive the equivelant to a nuclear strike in power.

The Warlord
I'm not the world's greatest fan of FF, but even I have to say that the FF universe takes out the ME universe,because they are just outclassed.If you want to talk about a better fight, then put FF universe against the Mortal Kombat universe. Now we're getting somwhere

Nephthys
Personally I'd put Zidane above Cloud. His trance attacks just seem to be on another level (crazyass reality-warping explosions and the like), and some of his cutscenes make it seems like he'd be close physically. Also, Terra was pretty powaful if I recall. And didn't one of the ff8 characters run around the world at light speed at one point?

fascistcrusader
There are a few FF heroes who would stomp an army of Shepards into the ground without second thought.

*Some FF spoilers ensue*

Cecil from FF IV tanks a direct hit from Bahamut with no damage in The After Years, and then later in the game he solos his Dark Knight self, a being which managed to own the rest of the IV gang including Golbez, who was still walking after being hit with the most powerful magic in the world.

Terra in her normal form without full control of her powers decimated a battalion of elite Magitek soldiers in seconds. In her Esper form she is exponentially stronger and probably the most powerful FF hero overall.

Cloud, well we all know what Cloud can do.

Trance Zidane is not only very agile and has some power behind his blades, but he has powerful Dyne abilities which put him around Cloud's level.


*end spoilers*

These four alone would make life hell for any ME troops trying to fight them and would cause casualties in the tens of thousands in a very short amount of time. They could probably solo given their incredible agility, speed and durability.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by The Warlord
I'm not the world's greatest fan of FF, but even I have to say that the FF universe takes out the ME universe,because they are just outclassed.If you want to talk about a better fight, then put FF universe against the Mortal Kombat universe. Now we're getting somwhere

LOL...seriously? You do realize that the ME universe has FTL travel, spaceships and stuff like that, do you?

Originally posted by fascistcrusader
There are a few FF heroes who would stomp an army of Shepards into the ground without second thought.

*Some FF spoilers ensue*

Cecil from FF IV tanks a direct hit from Bahamut with no damage in The After Years, and then later in the game he solos his Dark Knight self, a being which managed to own the rest of the IV gang including Golbez, who was still walking after being hit with the most powerful magic in the world.

Terra in her normal form without full control of her powers decimated a battalion of elite Magitek soldiers in seconds. In her Esper form she is exponentially stronger and probably the most powerful FF hero overall.

Cloud, well we all know what Cloud can do.

Trance Zidane is not only very agile and has some power behind his blades, but he has powerful Dyne abilities which put him around Cloud's level.


*end spoilers*

These four alone would make life hell for any ME troops trying to fight them and would cause casualties in the tens of thousands in a very short amount of time. They could probably solo given their incredible agility, speed and durability.

...

Can they travel at FTL?

If yes then,

Prove it.

If no then,

All of the above is irrelevant.

Nephthys
Couldn't the FF team like, just go through the wormholes to get to the ME universe? Then once they have a victory they can steal some FTL tech and carry on. If not then this is a spite thread as there is no way for the FF team to win.

Nemesis X
Originally posted by Nephthys
this is a spite thread as there is no way for the FF team to win.

But doesn't FF have gods and demi-gods that have the power to lay waste armies? erm

NemeBro
And MEverse just has gigantic dreadnoughts which can do the same from orbit, including entire legions of even larger Dreadnoughts which can destroy ships like the Ascension in a single shot...

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by Nemesis X
But doesn't FF have gods and demi-gods that have the power to lay waste armies? erm

Medieval armies, yes.

But not space age armies, and certainly not space fleets...

Originally posted by NemeBro
And MEverse just has gigantic dreadnoughts which can do the same from orbit, including entire legions of even larger Dreadnoughts which can destroy ships like the Ascension in a single shot...

So FF can beat SW universe but not ME, even though SW universe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...> ME universe...

I guess me leaving out near-omnis means a lot.

NemeBro
You left out the likes of ExDeath with the Void, Ultimecia, and Chaos.

So yeah.

SpadeKing
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Does any of the FF games have spaceships of any kind?

all I know of is FF8's ragnorak

fascistcrusader
Stop acting as if everything in the ME universe can fight and react at FTL speeds. FTL travel means nothing here as running away is forfeiting and all they can do with FTL is retreat back to their universe because they're getting slaughtered. In a ground battle 4 heroes could take it alone, and in a space/ground battle the demigods take it. Please stop confusing a retreat with a victory.

NemeBro
Not one character in this fight has shown any abilities of space combat.

Nephthys
Yeah, but those guys won't help the FF team counterattack the ME universe as they don't have the tech needed to reach it, unless they can go hrough the wormholes the ME team took. Which means their pretty screwed. Not to mention theres only about 3 things in the entire of FF that have shown to survive in space, which are the FF4 party, The FF4 parties spaceship and Garlands (FF9) spaceship.

So unless the playing field is equalised all the FF team can do is get nuked from orbit.

fascistcrusader
Sephiroth can survive in space easily, as I've already stated he is made up of pure Jenova cells and Jenova traveled from planet to planet without a ship just fine. Kefka is a literal god free from mortal needs like air, food or water, so space poses no problem to him, and Trance Kuja has never demonstrated a need to breath air, and even if he did need to Ultima can be spammed from within the atmosphere.

The ME fleet does nothing here but show up and die, that's a simple fact. If they go back to their world they forfeit, so there's no need for them to be followed from planet to planet, but even if there were a need Kuja makes dimensional barriers his *****, he ripped open a hole to the dimension of Memoria and the crystal world under his own power, so finding the ME universe wouldn't be a big issue for him. Then there's also the rift, a nexus between all universes, they could just travel through there as Gilgamesh does to annihilate the cowardly retreating ME forces.

BoratBorat
A strict army vs army, the ME universe will dominate.

If the FF verse includes demi gods then obviously they win.


A better vs would be every single WWII soldier(german, japanese, british, american , russian) vs the regular army in each FF(one at a time).

@Facistcrusader, you sound like you really hate mass effect.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Stop acting as if everything in the ME universe can fight and react at FTL speeds. FTL travel means nothing here as running away is forfeiting and all they can do with FTL is retreat back to their universe because they're getting slaughtered. In a ground battle 4 heroes could take it alone, and in a space/ground battle the demigods take it. Please stop confusing a retreat with a victory.

This is a WAR.

In case you don't know, a war is VERY complex, and "running away" is NOT a loss in a war. In a war, winning a single battle doesn't get you victory, so if they smoke the first invasion force they don't automatically win just because they won a single confrontation. Hit and run attacks to NOT count as forfeit; they are legitimate war tactics.

A shell fired from a dreadnought in space in ME has unlimited range until it hits a large enough object, so the only limit in how far you can fire is a line of sight and accuracy. Therefore, a ME fleet could pound the FF planets from an entire solar system away and FF can't do a thing about it.

How would they get slaughtered? Space ships and guns vs swords and shields? That's a slaughter against FF!

Originally posted by BoratBorat
A strict army vs army, the ME universe will dominate.

If the FF verse includes demi gods then obviously they win.


A better vs would be every single WWII soldier(german, japanese, british, american , russian) vs the regular army in each FF(one at a time).

@Facistcrusader, you sound like you really hate mass effect.

Demi gods are not undefeatable, even with demi gods ME universe still dominates.

Last part is still leaning heavily towards Earth, WW2 armies have automatic guns and tanks.

fascistcrusader
This is a FORUM BATTLE. It's a fight between two forces for a single battle, read the rules. If the ability to run away meant a victory then every spite thread would be a victory for the underdog. Even if ME ran away, every time they came back they'd be decimated by the demigods time after time.



You've never even seen the box art for an FF game, have you? ShinRa alone could take out WW II earth armies easily, given that they not only have advanced automatic rifles for their basic troopers, but also robot weapons, tanks, bombers, missiles, and mech like vehicles, plus advanced tech like lasers. Then to top it all off you have SOLDIER, bullet timing fighters who can chop steel girders in two and use magic from materia. Even without demigods or main characters the armies of FF VII alone would stomp.

For the love of all things good and decent educate yourself before you do something like this and end up looking silly. sad

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
This is a FORUM BATTLE. It's a fight between two forces for a single battle, read the rules. If the ability to run away meant a victory then every spite thread would be a victory for the underdog. Even if ME ran away, every time they came back they'd be decimated by the demigods time after time.


So in other words, strategy, supply lines, logistics and everything else that otherwise plays a HUGE role in a conflict involving entire armies doesn't matter, instead being the entirely unrealistic approach of the entire militaries of two forces fighting in a single battle despite the extremely large extent of their armies? In other words, remove all of ME's advantages in terms of a war and simply make it a single battle?

Even then, ME pwns.

You really don't know much about ME, do you? You ignored my part about ME ships being able to snipe the FF forces from across the solar system. They could simply glass the entire planet(s) without even having to land their forces.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader



You've never even seen the box art for an FF game, have you? ShinRa alone could take out WW II earth armies easily, given that they not only have advanced automatic rifles for their basic troopers, but also robot weapons, tanks, bombers, missiles, and mech like vehicles, plus advanced tech like lasers. Then to top it all off you have SOLDIER, bullet timing fighters who can chop steel girders in two and use magic from materia. Even without demigods or main characters the armies of FF VII alone would stomp.

For the love of all things good and decent educate yourself before you do something like this and end up looking silly. sad

I have FF12, FFTA2 and KH1/KH2 (latter are pretty inaccurate, but still provide a basic overview).

Oh, and sorry, I was thinking about the more medieval FF armies, not the futuristic ones.

For the love of all things good and decent educate yourself on Mass Effect and strategy/war/logistics.

fascistcrusader
So instead of quietly conceding defeat like I can tell you know you should, you ignore forum rules and the evidence to try to make the team you like win? That's sad, kid, just sad. The fact is that the demigods wouldn't do anything but laugh if hit by any of the weapons you've described, then they'd retaliate by killing the entire fleet. This debate has been over for a while, so I'll just take your childish whining as a concession.



Look, I know you really, really want to make an FF spite battle, but even the medieval FF armies have magic that make WWII weapons look as dangerous cotton candy. sad

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
So instead of quietly conceding defeat like I can tell you know you should, you ignore forum rules and the evidence to try to make the team you like win? That's sad, kid, just sad. The fact is that the demigods wouldn't do anything but laugh if hit by any of the weapons you've described, then they'd retaliate by killing the entire fleet. This debate has been over for a while, so I'll just take your childish whining as a concession.



Please provide proof that the demigods have a range that large, and that they can destroy ME ships in a large enough scale, especially the reapers, each one which is on par with the entire citadel fleet. Also provide proof that the demigods can survive not just one, but an entire barrage of powerful nuke-like weapons.

Originally posted by fascistcrusader



Look, I know you really, really want to make an FF spite battle, but even the medieval FF armies have magic that make WWII weapons look as dangerous cotton candy. sad

Like...?

Please give examples.

fascistcrusader
Like Terra in her weakest form taking out a battalion of Kefka's best magitek soldiers, troops in magic enhanced mechs with laser weaponry, instantly.

Hewhoknowsall
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Like Terra in her weakest form taking out a battalion of Kefka's best magitek soldiers, troops in magic enhanced mechs with laser weaponry, instantly.

Is that in one of the medieval games (since you claimed that the medieval armies could take WW2)?

Also, you ignored half of my post.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Is that in one of the medieval games (since you claimed that the medieval armies could take WW2)?

Also, you ignored half of my post.

I think they had some kind of robots in FF6.

Nephthys
Kuja's black mage army could probably take WW2.

Teleport and strike goes a long way.

NemeBro
Originally posted by fascistcrusader
Sephiroth can survive in space easily, as I've already stated he is made up of pure Jenova cells and Jenova traveled from planet to planet without a ship just fine. Kefka is a literal god free from mortal needs like air, food or water, so space poses no problem to him, and Trance Kuja has never demonstrated a need to breath air, and even if he did need to Ultima can be spammed from within the atmosphere.

The ME fleet does nothing here but show up and die, that's a simple fact. If they go back to their world they forfeit, so there's no need for them to be followed from planet to planet, but even if there were a need Kuja makes dimensional barriers his *****, he ripped open a hole to the dimension of Memoria and the crystal world under his own power, so finding the ME universe wouldn't be a big issue for him. Then there's also the rift, a nexus between all universes, they could just travel through there as Gilgamesh does to annihilate the cowardly retreating ME forces. Jenova flew planets to other planets as meteors. Kefka has not shown he does not need to breathe, GTFO with that bullshit, his godly powers have never shown to extend beyond the planet, plus he has no proven durability to a blast from Sovereign, let alone the rest of the Reapers. Trance Kuja has never demonstrated the need to breathe air? Lawl, so we assume he does not need to? Ultima can be spammed in the atmosphere to raze a planet...Which does not help in his effort to destroy legions of Dreadnoughts bombarding the planet.

The Warlord
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
LOL...seriously? You do realize that the ME universe has FTL travel, spaceships and stuff like that, do you?

Yes,I realize that ME has FTL travel,Spaceships,and hi-tech weaponry,but don't treat me like I'm some idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

mad
So don't laugh at me because I'm not some stupid fanboy.
Oh, and I stand by what I said,if you have a problem with it,tough luck.

BoratBorat
Originally posted by fascistcrusader



You've never even seen the box art for an FF game, have you? ShinRa alone could take out WW II earth armies easily, given that they not only have advanced automatic rifles for their basic troopers, but also robot weapons, tanks, bombers, missiles, and mech like vehicles, plus advanced tech like lasers. Then to top it all off you have SOLDIER, bullet timing fighters who can chop steel girders in two and use magic from materia. Even without demigods or main characters the armies of FF VII alone would stomp.

For the love of all things good and decent educate yourself before you do something like this and end up looking silly. sad You are probably the most ignorant and hardcore FF fanboy i have ever seen in my life seriously.


How exactly would shinra beat the german army let alone the entire WWII armies?

How big is shinra? What strategies do they employ? How large are their armies? What divisions do they have? What defences do they have to protect them against artillery strikes?

You act as if shinra could crush the WWII army without even firing a single shot, that is an indicator of sheer hardcore fanboyism.

You think shinra will "stomp" the WWII army simply because they have superior tech?
Or do you blatantly forgot that america, despite being vastly superior to the vietnamese in technology still lost to them in the vietnam war?

The fact that they dropped more bombs than they did in WWII and still lost the war?

Your logic = Zomg sh!nra [email protected] t3ch S0 tEy PWNNN!!

Phanteros
FF fanboys....

XanatosForever
Another thing I think most people are forgetting is that ME isn't just traditional soldiers with firearms, there are tech specialists, and biotics. Most FF heroes are unnatural in their physical abilities, but what good is that really going to do if a squad of biotics stasis everything in a twenty meter radius? Hell, even Lift would through them off long enough for Soldiers to line up decent shots.

BoratBorat
Exactly, there is little evidence to even suggest that the regular soldiers in FF could even take out WWII armies(which alone is more than a match) let alone ME soldiers which havce vastly superior technology and strategy.

NemeBro
Originally posted by XanatosForever
Another thing I think most people are forgetting is that ME isn't just traditional soldiers with firearms, there are tech specialists, and biotics. Most FF heroes are unnatural in their physical abilities, but what good is that really going to do if a squad of biotics stasis everything in a twenty meter radius? Hell, even Lift would through them off long enough for Soldiers to line up decent shots. It means they can kill off squads before said squads could do much of anything.

Cyner
Wow, i've been gone a few days and this topic is decimated by sidetracking and fanboyism.

SHM
Uh... FF have a being called "The Creator" who uses an artificial moon to devour entire planets, and can use the biological memory of each planet to recreate all the living creatures who lived on it, through the memories absorbed by the crystals created by her/it.

Just saying.

XanatosForever
Yeah...quasi-omnipotent beings like that aren't allowed, the thread starter said so already.

Just saying.

SHM
Originally posted by XanatosForever
Yeah...quasi-omnipotent beings like that aren't allowed, the thread starter said so already.

Just saying.

The Creator uses technology(an artificial moon, and crystals created by her/it) to do that.
Actually, it's revealed she/it is a scientist studying evolution.

NemeBro
SHM which game is this? Not familiar with this character.

XanatosForever
Originally posted by SHM
The Creator uses technology(an artificial moon, and crystals created by her/it) to do that.
Actually, it's revealed she/it is a scientist studying evolution.

And that's a valid response to my statement...how? It doesn't matter where The Creator's power stems from, the fact said power borders on the omnipotent means that it's not a candidate for use in this thread.

Also, Bro:

Originally posted by NemeBro
It means they can kill off squads before said squads could do much of anything.

What?

SHM
Originally posted by NemeBro
SHM which game is this? Not familiar with this character.

The final boss of FFIV The After Years

Originally posted by XanatosForever
And that's a valid response to my statement...how? It doesn't matter where The Creator's power stems from, the fact said power borders on the omnipotent means that it's not a candidate for use in this thread.

The Creator using her/its artificial moon and crystals, is the same thing as the Mass Effect characters using their spaceships.

NemeBro
And is not even bordering on the realm of omnipotence.

ArtificialGlory
Originally posted by NemeBro
And is not even bordering on the realm of omnipotence.

Not even remotely close by any stretch of imagination.

NemeBro
I have had characters in sigs more powerful than that.

Granted I had a PR Beyonder sig but still.

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