Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070110020215AAW0sSg
Is from that link, and the thread's title is edited from the title in the link since it has to do with my 360 I connect the TV to, and I was agreeing with most if not all that he's said. Even when the source is HD and not SD, the crappiness of some LCD's show fairly well from up close or a distance. Mine is a 26" Sony BRAVIA, and I made the distance sitting away to be 10". Besides the fact it looks nice for its design, and nice where it is, and makes the room look nice, the picture is pixelated (not saying it has pixels which it obviously does) but people should know what I mean. You can see the jaggedness and it's annoying.

Why do I not see this on my 1280 x 1024 CRT monitor, which has fairly around the same amount of pixels as my new LCD TV? I can be 2 feet from this 17" monitor and I will be hardpressed to start even noticing pixels, but from 10 feet away on a 26" LCD TV, having a 1366 x 768 resolution I can clearly see the effect the pixels are making. Is it because it's a 720p, and this CRT monitor is interlaced (I believe all CRT's are but this is for sure, because up close I can see the scan lines going from left to right/bottom to top) making it...I don't know...720i? Regardless, I find it hard to believe 2 displays (26" LCD TV and 17" CRT monitor) having around the same number of pixels, one being p or progressive, while the other is i or interlaced seem incredibly different, with the interlaced looking far better (ironically, because progressive is supposed to be >>>> interlaced) though when I look at my laptop screen, which is a 15.6" LCD screen, that supposedly also has a 1366 x 768 resolution AS THE LCD TV, it looks better than both displays I've talked about.

WTF?! Logically this is supposed to be no better looking than my TV, though why does my TV look like crap? I can stand 4 feet away from it and I'd rather look at a wall. It is pixelated as hell to be called "HD" and it is not because the source is bad. Tekken 6 runs clearly (meaning, obviously, because it sure as hell isn't clear) in 720p yet looks light years better on a CRT monitor that has around the same amount of resolution as the TV the game looks crappy on. My ass. I'm not sure why there's this gaping difference. Is it because I'm comparing 15-17" displays to a 26" one? I'm not sure. I do know I've went super-up-close to ALL monitors so the size thing shouldn't matter. My TV shouldn't look so much different for being a mere 10 inches bigger, but it does.

Well, thanks for reading. All this week I've been thinking hard about TV's and getting TV's (for my console, because I don't have blu-ray players/HD programming).

Man, is this really "HD"? How old is 720p anyway? Don't get me wrong, I know I've had some level of "HD" in my place always since this Sony Trinitron CRT monitor has been with me for years and it's 1280 x 1024 which definitely qualifies to be HD (720p, or 1366 x 768 has less overall pixels), yet, I've yet to see a level of HD that is worse than on my 26" Sony BRAVIA. It is really disappointing, especially since this same TV was nominated as being the best or second best 26" LCD's out there that you can buy. Maybe I am hallucinating, but I doubt it. My eyes are good and young, and I doubt me seeing crap, and grainy texture on one screen and not on two other screens with the same resolution means they need to get checked.

1 word, Pixellence

Depends on the media (the actual CD data) and/or the quality of the LCD screen and video chip.

The bigger the resolution, the smaller the display = better image quality. A 17 inch monitor displaying the same amount of pixels is obviously going to look much sharper and better than a 26 inch TV/monitor displaying the same amount.

This usually isn't an issue when it comes to monitors(which are usually used to display PC games), because of a much better range of resolutions the said games can render at natively.

CRT's do not have pixels. They're similar to tube TV's.

They have an electron gun that is deflected by coils that hit phosphors which releases light. Light goes through red/blue/green colour and that's the image. It's regulated by a shadow mask/aparture grill that blocks unneeded light from hitting phosphors that you don't want to get hit.

As AG said, if its the same resolution an extra 10 inches will make a different in how the display works. Especially if its lower than the native resolution of the LCD monitor. I just tried it with my monitor that's running at 1600x1050 (my native) and moved it to 1024x800 something or another, it looks like shit.

As far as gaming goes and as far as I'm used to, 1366x768 or 1280x720 is way too low for a such a large screen like 26". Monitors at that size have a native resolution of 1920x1080/1920x1200. That's quite a massive jump from 768/720p.

As long as you have a HDTV capable of supporting 1080p (it doesn't matter what size of the screen is), and the games that support such resolution, it won't look grainy/blurry at all.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
As long as you have a HDTV capable of supporting 1080p (it doesn't matter what size of the screen is), and the games that support such resolution, it won't look grainy/blurry at all.

Actually, even 1080p would end up looking blurry/grainy if the screen size was large enough. However, this is a non-issue atm.

You see, that's the problem. There are very few precious console games that actually natively support 1080p.

Bottom line: take up PC gaming

Originally posted by Smasandian
CRT's do not have pixels. They're similar to tube TV's.

They are the same damn thing. CRT is a renaming of "tube" type monitors. TVs are monitors. btw.

Cathode Ray Tube.






To address the thread...






Try using HDMI.

Make sure the system is set to a 1080p resolution, as well.

There should be nothing but an improvement.

If you want to be an *******, they're the same thing.

Originally posted by Juk3n
1 word, Pixellence

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Depends on the media (the actual CD data) and/or the quality of the LCD screen and video chip. All at 720p.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
The bigger the resolution, the smaller the display = better image quality. A 17 inch monitor displaying the same amount of pixels is obviously going to look much sharper and better than a 26 inch TV/monitor displaying the same amount.That is true, and that is why from a distance, actually, the 26" seems to be the same in clarity. I just started noticing this recently.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
This usually isn't an issue when it comes to monitors(which are usually used to display PC games), because of a much better range of resolutions the said games can render at natively. You mean, the different resolution options you can choose from? I wonder why TV's don't have these resolution options.

Originally posted by Smasandian
CRT's do not have pixels. They're similar to tube TV's.

They have an electron gun that is deflected by coils that hit phosphors which releases light. Light goes through red/blue/green colour and that's the image. It's regulated by a shadow mask/aparture grill that blocks unneeded light from hitting phosphors that you don't want to get hit.

As AG said, if its the same resolution an extra 10 inches will make a different in how the display works. Especially if its lower than the native resolution of the LCD monitor. I just tried it with my monitor that's running at 1600x1050 (my native) and moved it to 1024x800 something or another, it looks like shit. I'm just wondering what the 1280 x 1024 thing is then. They are representing pixels, right? 1024 has to represent something.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
As far as gaming goes and as far as I'm used to, 1366x768 or 1280x720 is way too low for a such a large screen like 26".This is very interesting, because, just about everyone I've heard from said "anything smaller then FORTY inches does not require 1080p" yet I'm reading someone say 26" is TOO LARGE of a screen to be in 720p?

Well, this is the chart I got info from:

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.png

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
As long as you have a HDTV capable of supporting 1080p (it doesn't matter what size of the screen is), and the games that support such resolution, it won't look grainy/blurry at all. Up close I think it still would, because 1080p just has a little under double the resolution of 720p, meaning I will see a little over half of the distortion up close. I guess what will fix that is HDMI...oh well, blame Sony for making 32" as the smallest size for thei 1080p TV's. I can live with this to be honest. I watch my TV from 10 feet and not up close.

Seeing as I'm greater than ~ 7.6 feet away from my screen (I'm at least greater than 9 now) the 720p vs 1080p debate shouldn't be something to worry about.

Except when I like to go up to my screen for whatever reason.

Originally posted by Shutter Control


You mean, the different resolution options you can choose from? I wonder why TV's don't have these resolution options.

Hmm. A TV I bought recently had quite a few resolution options when hooked up to my PC and acting as a monitor. However, the majority of console games only have 1 or 2 native resolutions(the upper one is usually 720p). Same goes for TV programmes.

I'm just wondering what the 1280 x 1024 thing is then. They are representing pixels, right? 1024 has to represent something.

Yep, they're still "pixels". Resolution is defined by that.

This is very interesting, because, just about everyone I've heard from said "anything smaller then FORTY inches does not require 1080p" yet I'm reading someone say 26" is TOO LARGE of a screen to be in 720p?

I don't know, but native 1920x1080/1200 looks infinitely better than native 720p on even a smaller display than a 26". I'm talking about gaming here, of course.

Are cotton balls safe to use on LCD screens? I just want to be sure...

Originally posted by Shutter Control
Are cotton balls safe to use on LCD screens? I just want to be sure...

I don't know. I use special wipes.

I'm 99% sure they are safe though.

99% about cotton balls or what you use?

To be honest, I don't see what could be softer than cotton...it's effin cotton yo!

Originally posted by Shutter Control
99% about cotton balls or what you use?

To be honest, I don't see what could be softer than cotton...it's effin cotton yo!


Yea, I meant the cotton balls.

Ehh... heh.. cotton balls...

Originally posted by Smasandian
If you want to be an *******, they're the same thing.

No, no a**hole required. They are the same thing regardless of pedanticalness.


You're supposed to use a special cloth for LCD/plasma screens. It should come with the monitor itself. The "solution" to clean the monitor is water and alcohol. There are special lcd/plasma solutions for sale...and they do work better than mixing your own alcohol and water.

You're not supposed to use cotton as it supposedly cuases really tiny scratches and, over time, will cause the screen to lose it's luster/see throughedness. (lulz)

...............

Well, I don't remember one time I bought an LCD screen (PSP, Laptop, and now TV) and was given a special cloth with it.

Oh, wow, cotton scratches even LCD screens and CDs? Jesus! How sensitive are these things made to be?! I can't believe it - I thought they were between plastic and metal in hardness and I learned in a class (Earth and Space science) something of lower durability can't scratch something greater. Cotton can scratch LCD screens? My god. I guess they make them so sensitive so you can pay more for their use of shoddy material...

I was also going to ask, are there TV screen protectors that are like the DS and PSP ones? You know the ones that are like clear paper and are flexible? Currently googling this but if you guys want to help me out...

Originally posted by Shutter Control
...............

Well, I don't remember one time I bought an LCD screen (PSP, Laptop, and now TV) and was given a special cloth with it.

Oh, wow, cotton scratches even LCD screens and CDs? Jesus! How sensitive are these things made to be?! I can't believe it - I thought they were between plastic and metal in hardness and I learned in a class (Earth and Space science) something of lower durability can't scratch something greater. Cotton can scratch LCD screens? My god. I guess they make them so sensitive so you can pay more for their use of shoddy material...

I was also going to ask, are there TV screen protectors that are like the DS and PSP ones? You know the ones that are like clear paper and are flexible? Currently googling this but if you guys want to help me out...

Yes.

In fact...

http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture98/ati/product1.jpg

I saw an even better picture on gizmodo. Lemme see if I can find it.

Man, I've been obsessed with keeping new things I buy non-scratched lately. As for the stuff I already have, lolz, scratched and hardly care about now...

And it's really all about the TV since I'm getting it with my own money. I want that thing to be wrapped in plastic or something, and stay that way, lol.

I hope this obsession just goes and don't get influenced by other people's ways of thinking anymore...

I asked for one that is flexible like the DS lite/PSP screen, not a hard screen meant to cover another hard screen.

I found it:

http://www.tv-armor.com/

A must buy if you have a bashing little shit. (Luckily, my youngest is not. But, my little sister was (growing up at my parents, she took some sort of metal object and bashed gashes into the TV.)

Bro they're not flexible...the thing with the ones on TV Armor and TV Screen Protector.com is they are designed to protect against fast flying moving objects. However I am looking for one that is simply going to protect against dirt, and towels that can supposedly scratch plastic and screens I don't want something bulky and heavy just to protect against that. Something like the DS/PSP (ultra thin, flexible, 100% invisible) screen protectors work wonders for this. Guess they don't make those for TV's. I wonder why, though.

Originally posted by Shutter Control
Man, I've been obsessed with keeping new things I buy non-scratched lately. As for the stuff I already have, lolz, scratched and hardly care about now...

And it's really all about the TV since I'm getting it with my own money. I want that thing to be wrapped in plastic or something, and stay that way, lol.

I hope this obsession just goes and don't get influenced by other people's ways of thinking anymore...

I asked for one that is flexible like the DS lite/PSP screen, not a hard screen meant to cover another hard screen.

You want plastic film protectors? I don't know if you could find as big as 26" or 32 inches, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could, afterall you're not the only one obsessed about it

I don't think is a good idea though. those film are a b*tch to put on the screen. It has to be perfectly aligned so it doesn't end up uneven. The screen needs to be wiped clean of any particles, and then you have to meticulously press the film against the screen. If not, you'll end up with bubbles and other stuff that will make the screen look worse. Much more of a hassle than it's worth .
If you (or some else) are going to be hurling things at the TV, then the hard plastic protector dadudemon told you about is the best way to go, after all LCDs are really fragile.
If you're lucky to find film protectors, you could use those to cover the black plastic edges around the screen. I still haven't taken the ones that came with my TV ... my excuse is: I'll be moving next March. Right now I have nowhere to display the TV (it's in my room) so I didn't bother taking them off

You're better using a soft cloth to clean the screen. I usually use one moistened in water (not dripping) though I hear there are cleaning solutions. I turn on the TV, let it get warm for a while, usually 10 minutes (LCD get quite hot ), turn it off, and then clean the screen. The heat takes care of the moisture quickly. and that's it, just make sure not to scrub, just rub gently .....


that sounded dirty

i dont think sticking something directly onto the surface of an lcd is a good idea either

so obviously, most people posting here dont know what the hell they are talking about. the phenomenon you describe is 1. VERY REAL 2. INSOLUBLE

the reason being that you are trying to watch STANDARD DEFINITION 480 p/i media on a 720p/1080 p-i. system. basically you need HIGH DEFINITION MEDIA{like ps3/xbox360/wii games or high def dvd or blue ray movies/ high def camera recordings} with a high def system{i.e hd dvd player/ps3/blue ray} ALONG WITH an HDMI CABLE INSERTED IN AN HD SLOT ON THE TV AND THE MEDIA CONNECTED{meaning that even your ps3 will give shitty quality if you use a compund or 3 port av cable}. furthermore even if you have all these components if you play non HD MEDIA on an HD system{i.e. standard dvd on an hd dvd player connected with HDMI cable or a ps2 game on a ps3 with backward compatibility hooked with an hdmi to a 720 or 1080 tv}it will STILL LOOK LIKE CRAP. no way to get around this.

the REASON this happens is because you are trying to fit in an incompatible number of pixles into an incompatible frame. for instance if you had 4 pixels, in a 2x2 grid{square} one red one yellow one green and one blue. and you tried to fit them in a 4x4 grid, it wud fit rather nicely as each square pixel will be divided in 4 smaller ones and the end result wud be the same shape and the same colour without any disadvantages. that is because 4 is a SQUARE of 2. i.e 2x2=4. to get a bigger picture of the same kind without losing contrast/information of the original shapes, youd have to have a 16x16 grid and so on. however, you wud be in big trouble if you tried to fit the 4 squares into a slightly bigger 3x3 grid{three pixels lengthwise and three pixels breadthwise} namely, in the central pixels{both centre and in between the corner of the 3x3 square} will be faced with having to display an overlap of the colors originally present in different pixles individually, so in between two pixels the two colours would mix and give the net result{OR in some tvs only the colour occupying the maximum surface area of that region will be shown seeing as real pictures arent uniform quares of colours occupying equal parts of the overlapping pixels}, etc, in this way, both the outlines {i.e. sharpness} and colour content of the picture will be compromised, in essence you will be losing the INFORMATION of the picture, and it wud look significantly pixelated as a result.

thats exactly what happens when u give hd tvs non hd input or media. now remember that just like in csi etc where facial recognition softwares are used through algorhythms to to GUESS the missing features. so too do good hd dvd/blue ray players etc use such softwares to MINIMISE data loss or FILL IN THE BLANKS created by pixelating, but even the best make the picture look only marginally better.

so save yourself a headache, and go buy a standard 480 p/i lcd/ct screen for your non hd needs{trust me ull need it, even youtube when its non HD looks like shit on hd, do a comparison with a normal one if u want confirmation}, youll need it for a LONG time both to see your old media on and to watch cable/tv on until ALL channels go hd and stop costing u such ridiculous amounts for their hd broadcast.

also remember that many people online and many hd product developers try to push out the rumour that your non hd content only looks bad because your HD tv has such AWESOME detail displaying qualities that you notice all the crappy lacks of detail that u didnt notice on your non hd 480 p tv. this is absolute BULLSHIT, fact is both 780 and 1080 tv actually DECREASE the quality/information that was available to you in your NON HD displays.

hope this was some help.

Yea, that's what's been said.

its leonheartmm.

Originally posted by S_D_J
You want plastic film protectors? I don't know if you could find as big as 26" or 32 inches, but I wouldn't be surprised if you could, afterall you're not the only one obsessed about it

I don't think is a good idea though. those film are a b*tch to put on the screen. It has to be perfectly aligned so it doesn't end up uneven. The screen needs to be wiped clean of any particles, and then you have to meticulously press the film against the screen. If not, you'll end up with bubbles and other stuff that will make the screen look worse. Much more of a hassle than it's worth .
If you (or some else) are going to be hurling things at the TV, then the hard plastic protector dadudemon told you about is the best way to go, after all LCDs are really fragile.
If you're lucky to find film protectors, you could use those to cover the black plastic edges around the screen. I still haven't taken the ones that came with my TV ... my excuse is: I'll be moving next March. Right now I have nowhere to display the TV (it's in my room) so I didn't bother taking them off

You're better using a soft cloth to clean the screen. I usually use one moistened in water (not dripping) though I hear there are cleaning solutions. I turn on the TV, let it get warm for a while, usually 10 minutes (LCD get quite hot ), turn it off, and then clean the screen. The heat takes care of the moisture quickly. and that's it, just make sure not to scrub, just rub gently .....


that sounded dirty
I wasn't looking for film like the one used on car windows that leave them bubbles and are impossible to remove. If anyone's seen the PSP/DS lite protective screen cover then that is what I want. It is 100% removeable all you have to do is barely pick the edge and it will come off when you pull it. It just has a habit of sticking to glass-like surfaces like an LCD screen.

Bah, I doubt I'll find this. My tv will be safe from flying objects and kids. Hell no one comes into this room...

By the way, I was looking for something that would also POLISH/MAKE A THIN PROTECTIVE LAYER on my TV/computer/keyboard/other electronic surfaces etc. Apparently I can't find this anywhere...I only run into polishers as in CLEANERS but not ones that "form a protective layer" like I said. Something like wood polish does that...

And speaking of wood polish, that is the only thing I found that can form this protective layer. However the fact it's called WOOD polish and is meant for wood makes me uneasy about using it on something else. It is also for marble, but that's about it. I really want to use something to polish (make shiny protective layer) on my discs as well. I want something that would suffice shining my stuff...anyone? Only wood polish comes to mind but I'm not sure if this'll damage anything or not (specifically my discs) apparently anything but microfiber screws discs up

Originally posted by leonheartmm
so obviously, most people posting here dont know what the hell they are talking about. the phenomenon you describe is 1. VERY REAL 2. INSOLUBLE

the reason being that you are trying to watch STANDARD DEFINITION 480 p/i media on a 720p/1080 p-i. system. basically you need HIGH DEFINITION MEDIA{like ps3/xbox360/wii games or high def dvd or blue ray movies/ high def camera recordings} with a high def system{i.e hd dvd player/ps3/blue ray} ALONG WITH an HDMI CABLE INSERTED IN AN HD SLOT ON THE TV AND THE MEDIA CONNECTED{meaning that even your ps3 will give shitty quality if you use a compund or 3 port av cable}. furthermore even if you have all these components if you play non HD MEDIA on an HD system{i.e. standard dvd on an hd dvd player connected with HDMI cable or a ps2 game on a ps3 with backward compatibility hooked with an hdmi to a 720 or 1080 tv}it will STILL LOOK LIKE CRAP. no way to get around this.

the REASON this happens is because you are trying to fit in an incompatible number of pixles into an incompatible frame. for instance if you had 4 pixels, in a 2x2 grid{square} one red one yellow one green and one blue. and you tried to fit them in a 4x4 grid, it wud fit rather nicely as each square pixel will be divided in 4 smaller ones and the end result wud be the same shape and the same colour without any disadvantages. that is because 4 is a SQUARE of 2. i.e 2x2=4. to get a bigger picture of the same kind without losing contrast/information of the original shapes, youd have to have a 16x16 grid and so on. however, you wud be in big trouble if you tried to fit the 4 squares into a slightly bigger 3x3 grid{three pixels lengthwise and three pixels breadthwise} namely, in the central pixels{both centre and in between the corner of the 3x3 square} will be faced with having to display an overlap of the colors originally present in different pixles individually, so in between two pixels the two colours would mix and give the net result{OR in some tvs only the colour occupying the maximum surface area of that region will be shown seeing as real pictures arent uniform quares of colours occupying equal parts of the overlapping pixels}, etc, in this way, both the outlines {i.e. sharpness} and colour content of the picture will be compromised, in essence you will be losing the INFORMATION of the picture, and it wud look significantly pixelated as a result.

thats exactly what happens when u give hd tvs non hd input or media. now remember that just like in csi etc where facial recognition softwares are used through algorhythms to to GUESS the missing features. so too do good hd dvd/blue ray players etc use such softwares to MINIMISE data loss or FILL IN THE BLANKS created by pixelating, but even the best make the picture look only marginally better.

so save yourself a headache, and go buy a standard 480 p/i lcd/ct screen for your non hd needs{trust me ull need it, even youtube when its non HD looks like shit on hd, do a comparison with a normal one if u want confirmation}, youll need it for a LONG time both to see your old media on and to watch cable/tv on until ALL channels go hd and stop costing u such ridiculous amounts for their hd broadcast.

also remember that many people online and many hd product developers try to push out the rumour that your non hd content only looks bad because your HD tv has such AWESOME detail displaying qualities that you notice all the crappy lacks of detail that u didnt notice on your non hd 480 p tv. this is absolute BULLSHIT, fact is both 780 and 1080 tv actually DECREASE the quality/information that was available to you in your NON HD displays.

hope this was some help. So let me get this straight. You're saying that if a source, like cable reciever or game console is not connected to something that shares the same native resolution (like if it was connected to something with a higher native resolution) it will look worse even if it gets upscaled by the display? Well I'm not sure of this. A link would be nice but when I played PS2 on my Sony LCD, I had the option of having the game take up as many pixels as it should. As a result it didn't take up the whole screen. I guess only some LCD's have this option...also I doubt HDMI creates such a noticeable difference than component for it to be worth the cost of an HDMI cable (somewhere around 40 bucks or more) from the distance I watch a 26", which is 10 feet.

Originally posted by Smasandian
CRT's do not have pixels. They're similar to tube TV's.

They have an electron gun that is deflected by coils that hit phosphors which releases light. Light goes through red/blue/green colour and that's the image. It's regulated by a shadow mask/aparture grill that blocks unneeded light from hitting phosphors that you don't want to get hit.

As AG said, if its the same resolution an extra 10 inches will make a different in how the display works. Especially if its lower than the native resolution of the LCD monitor. I just tried it with my monitor that's running at 1600x1050 (my native) and moved it to 1024x800 something or another, it looks like shit.

You learn something new everyday.

Originally posted by Shutter Control
I wasn't looking for film like the one used on car windows that leave them bubbles and are impossible to remove. If anyone's seen the PSP/DS lite protective screen cover then that is what I want. It is 100% removeable all you have to do is barely pick the edge and it will come off when you pull it. It just has a habit of sticking to glass-like surfaces like an LCD screen.

Bah, I doubt I'll find this. My tv will be safe from flying objects and kids. Hell no one comes into this room...

By the way, I was looking for something that would also POLISH/MAKE A THIN PROTECTIVE LAYER on my TV/computer/keyboard/other electronic surfaces etc. Apparently I can't find this anywhere...I only run into polishers as in CLEANERS but not ones that "form a protective layer" like I said. Something like wood polish does that...

And speaking of wood polish, that is the only thing I found that can form this protective layer. However the fact it's called WOOD polish and is meant for wood makes me uneasy about using it on something else. It is also for marble, but that's about it. I really want to use something to polish (make shiny protective layer) on my discs as well. I want something that would suffice shining my stuff...anyone? Only wood polish comes to mind but I'm not sure if this'll damage anything or not (specifically my discs) apparently anything but microfiber screws discs up

So let me get this straight. You're saying that if a source, like cable reciever or game console is not connected to something that shares the same native resolution (like if it was connected to something with a higher native resolution) it will look worse even if it gets upscaled by the display? Well I'm not sure of this. A link would be nice but when I played PS2 on my Sony LCD, I had the option of having the game take up as many pixels as it should. As a result it didn't take up the whole screen. I guess only some LCD's have this option...also I doubt HDMI creates such a noticeable difference than component for it to be worth the cost of an HDMI cable (somewhere around 40 bucks or more) from the distance I watch a 26", which is 10 feet.

not necessarily on the first point. as i said before, if it is a higher COMPATIBLE resolution{i.e. which is a POWER of the number of pixels in the original resolution} then it works fine{some sort of this principle although modified is used to upscale 720 to 1080 without losing much info, i.e. 1 megapixel hd ready to 2 megapixel full hd}otherwise it doesnt, look at my boxes/grid/square analogy for this.

as for playing ps2 on 480 i/p on an hd tv, yes that wud take care of the problem but as a result youll only be playing on a very small portion of the whole screen.

as for hdmi cable id have to say that ur completely wrong. it is THE ONLY THING that will give you any amount of high def signal connection. a component cable is equivalent to outputting a non hd signal REGUARDLESS of what you connect to it on the other end. hdmi 1.3 ir preferrable. but truly, u shudnt expect any hd output with component. yes theyr expensive, thats unfortunate but there u r. no point in getting an hd display or an hd media player without an hdmi cable.

oh btw, crtvs DO have pixels in the sense that pixels are respresentative of bits of information. they just dont go about showing them in the same physical way thats lcds'leds'plasmas. most ct tvs are 480.

Originally posted by Shutter Control
I wasn't looking for film like the one used on car windows that leave them bubbles and are impossible to remove. If anyone's seen the PSP/DS lite protective screen cover then that is what I want. It is 100% removeable all you have to do is barely pick the edge and it will come off when you pull it. It just has a habit of sticking to glass-like surfaces like an LCD screen.

those were exactly the ones was talking about, I have both a PSP and DS and I used protective film screens on both (though the PSP's is a much sturdier one, while the DS's is a much thinner yet protective one)

they're easy to take out if you mess up, but still loses some cohesiveness once you pull it out, and yes it does create bubbles when the surface is not clean ( the PSP/DS are small screens, and yet they can be quite troublesome when cleaning, imagine how difficult it will be to keep clean a 26" screen while you put the sticker on it )





Wood Polish? I don't know how useful that would be, but I think there are cleaning/polish solutions for rubber/plastic surfaces... like the one used for cleaning a car dashboard or tires, Why don't you tried with those?



An HDMI cable costs 40$? they are ripping you off!
Any HDMI cable should work the same (relatively) as any other HDMI. Is a digital signal, kinda like any USB cable should work with any device that uses an USB cable (as long as the socket fits: USB, MiniUSB, MicroUSB...)

Don't let them fool you: a 8-9$ HDMI cable works the same as those 99$ monster cables (If they're still selling those) the only difference will be the length. Look online, you don't need to buy Microsoft Official 360 HDMI cable. any cable should do. Mine cost me less than 10 bucks and I don't live in the US.

Originally posted by leonheartmm


....

as for hdmi cable id have to say that ur completely wrong. it is THE ONLY THING that will give you any amount of high def signal connection. a component cable is equivalent to outputting a non hd signal REGUARDLESS of what you connect to it on the other end. hdmi 1.3 ir preferrable. but truly, u shudnt expect any hd output with component. yes theyr expensive, thats unfortunate but there u r. no point in getting an hd display or an hd media player without an hdmi cable.

I beg to differ.

the quality of the component signal depends largely on the materials used and the construction quality of the cable. Components are quite capable of carrying HD signal (not just 720p, but also 1080p... and I think, though I'm not sure, it could carry 1440p as well), the problem lies with both the device outputting the signal, as well as the TV receiving it.
Most TVs won't accept an 1080p signal over component, and some devices will tell you that you won't get a higher than 720p through component (it says you NEED a HDMI cable for that) but still output it as long as the TV accepts it, while others flat out don't.

Take the 360: it can ouput both 720p and 1080p through component, but the device itself tells you you need the HDMI cable for 1080p. The PS3 does not let you output 1080p through Component, it flat out denies you the option until you use an HDMI cable.

I used component for both the 360 and PS3. The 360 came with the cable (not anymore) while I used my PS2 component cable for the PS3. The quality of the image, through component, of the 360 was outstanding, while the PS3 was clear enough, and enjoyable, but both the red and blue signal were offset creating a weird shadow/double image that wasn't so pretty when looking up close.
Now, the 360 cable is an original cable (the best 360 cable around) so it works perfectly, while my PS2 cable was a 3rd party, 3rd rate cable that works, but wasn't fine tune.
I got my PS3 hooked up via HDMI now, and it looks wonderful... but my 360 looks just as nice, and is still hooked via Component (my PS3 set at 1080p, while the 360 is at 720p).

The quality you perceive also depends on how well calibrated your TV is (contrast, color, black/sharp edges, color temperature...) so for comparisons purposes, I used the same channel when comparing both component cables, and the exact same settings when comparing Component VS HDMI. I already said the difference between both component cables, and the reason one looked better than the other was because of the quality of the cables, so I won't compared the PS3's HDMI vs PS3's Component.

now comparing the 360 @ 720p through Component vs the 360 @ 720p through HDMI, both look the exact same (I would dare say the component looks a bit sharp than the HDMI)
@ 1080p the obvious benefit is the increase in resolution, and since my TV is 32", at normal viewing distance both 720p and 1080p look the same (the difference is only noticeable up close)

The PS3 on the other hand looks gorgeous at 1080p through HDMI, but that's the only way the PS3 can output 1080p: through HDMI

The 360 outputs 1080p via component on my TV, but somehow I think 720p looks better

None of that matter though since almost all games have a native 720p resolution... 1080p is best used for movies... and MGS4


the funny thing here is: great quality component cables are much more expensive than a regular HDMI (gold covered tips, heavy duty long cable)

An original PS3 component cable costs me 45-50$ ( I imagine the 360's will cost as much) while a regular HDMI cable costs less than 10$

...go figure


BTW: that HDMI 1.2a, b, 1.3 crap is pointless. a regular 1080p signal should look the same regardless of what HDMI cable you're using... the differance (if) only applies when talking about bigger resolutions... all of which is useless right now since we're talking about a 26" 720p/1080i screen.

and even so, most full HD TVs have a native 1080p resolution, so that would (currently) be the biggest resolution at hand, one that any HDMI cable is capable of handling

...didn't read the last paragraph to leon. Long as eff and I don't have much time left for my break...gotta call sony style and ask some questions.

Yes...component I'm afraid is underrated. It definitely is capable of HD. Hell the 360 one has an "HD" option and it can even do 1080p. Screen looks clear as eff with it so how am I going to notice a significant difference with HDMI? Not possible from the distance I'm watching the TV from, and especially since we're only dealing with 720p here...

Also I don't agree that all HDMI cables are the same. Even with VGA cables I've witnessed HORRIBLE reviews for ones by companies other than M$. The M$ one got beautiful reviews, averaging to 4.8 out of 5...the rest got like a friggin 2 or something.

I don't even want to hear the word "cleaning product" by the way. Screw cleaning. Distilled water and microfiber cloth is all I need to remove dust and dirt. I'm looking for a polisher/something that gives a shiny finish to my electronic devices. I'll do more research...

Originally posted by S_D_J
those were exactly the ones was talking about, I have both a PSP and DS and I used protective film screens on both (though the PSP's is a much sturdier one, while the DS's is a much thinner yet protective one)

they're easy to take out if you mess up, but still loses some cohesiveness once you pull it out, and yes it does create bubbles when the surface is not clean ( the PSP/DS are small screens, and yet they can be quite troublesome when cleaning, imagine how difficult it will be to keep clean a 26" screen while you put the sticker on it )





Wood Polish? I don't know how useful that would be, but I think there are cleaning/polish solutions for rubber/plastic surfaces... like the one used for cleaning a car dashboard or tires, Why don't you tried with those?



An HDMI cable costs 40$? they are ripping you off!
Any HDMI cable should work the same (relatively) as any other HDMI. Is a digital signal, kinda like any USB cable should work with any device that uses an USB cable (as long as the socket fits: USB, MiniUSB, MicroUSB...)

Don't let them fool you: a 8-9$ HDMI cable works the same as those 99$ monster cables (If they're still selling those) the only difference will be the length. Look online, you don't need to buy Microsoft Official 360 HDMI cable. any cable should do. Mine cost me less than 10 bucks and I don't live in the US.



I beg to differ.

the quality of the component signal depends largely on the materials used and the construction quality of the cable. Components are quite capable of carrying HD signal (not just 720p, but also 1080p... and I think, though I'm not sure, it could carry 1440p as well), the problem lies with both the device outputting the signal, as well as the TV receiving it.
Most TVs won't accept an 1080p signal over component, and some devices will tell you that you won't get a higher than 720p through component (it says you NEED a HDMI cable for that) but still output it as long as the TV accepts it, while others flat out don't.

Take the 360: it can ouput both 720p and 1080p through component, but the device itself tells you you need the HDMI cable for 1080p. The PS3 does not let you output 1080p through Component, it flat out denies you the option until you use an HDMI cable.

I used component for both the 360 and PS3. The 360 came with the cable (not anymore) while I used my PS2 component cable for the PS3. The quality of the image, through component, of the 360 was outstanding, while the PS3 was clear enough, and enjoyable, but both the red and blue signal were offset creating a weird shadow/double image that wasn't so pretty when looking up close.
Now, the 360 cable is an original cable (the best 360 cable around) so it works perfectly, while my PS2 cable was a 3rd party, 3rd rate cable that works, but wasn't fine tune.
I got my PS3 hooked up via HDMI now, and it looks wonderful... but my 360 looks just as nice, and is still hooked via Component (my PS3 set at 1080p, while the 360 is at 720p).

The quality you perceive also depends on how well calibrated your TV is (contrast, color, black/sharp edges, color temperature...) so for comparisons purposes, I used the same channel when comparing both component cables, and the exact same settings when comparing Component VS HDMI. I already said the difference between both component cables, and the reason one looked better than the other was because of the quality of the cables, so I won't compared the PS3's HDMI vs PS3's Component.

now comparing the 360 @ 720p through Component vs the 360 @ 720p through HDMI, both look the exact same (I would dare say the component looks a bit sharp than the HDMI)
@ 1080p the obvious benefit is the increase in resolution, and since my TV is 32", at normal viewing distance both 720p and 1080p look the same (the difference is only noticeable up close)

The PS3 on the other hand looks gorgeous at 1080p through HDMI, but that's the only way the PS3 can output 1080p: through HDMI

The 360 outputs 1080p via component on my TV, but somehow I think 720p looks better

None of that matter though since almost all games have a native 720p resolution... 1080p is best used for movies... and MGS4


the funny thing here is: great quality component cables are much more expensive than a regular HDMI (gold covered tips, heavy duty long cable)

An original PS3 component cable costs me 45-50$ ( I imagine the 360's will cost as much) while a regular HDMI cable costs less than 10$

...go figure


BTW: that HDMI 1.2a, b, 1.3 crap is pointless. a regular 1080p signal should look the same regardless of what HDMI cable you're using... the differance (if) only applies when talking about bigger resolutions... all of which is useless right now since we're talking about a 26" 720p/1080i screen.

and even so, most full HD TVs have a native 1080p resolution, so that would (currently) be the biggest resolution at hand, one that any HDMI cable is capable of handling

well you may have a point about the hardware not accepting signals. im not an expert in data transfer hardware technology but from what i hear the reason for developing the hdmi hardware was that a greater amount of information would be carried than a typical 6 channel 3 cable component hardware. maybe it is the companies screwing you, forcing you to use hdmi even though component works. what i DO know is that every full hd/hd ready tv i have come across simply treats a component input as if it was fitlered through a forced 480 i conversion. the ps3 will refuse to play gta4 on a component output. etc. all im saying is that the pixel problem he is referring to is both real and insoluble{as it has already occured on the screen} and he shud get a 480i/p screen for it.

No arguing that.

There's no denying 480i/p content looks like shite on any LCD, but you can find EDTV (480p) as big as 27"/29" and play 480p content and they will look great and big enough to enjoy. Just a big as an LCD screen and will look tons better than in an LCD

btw: didn't know about GTAIV not playing through component . I have the 360 version and it plays just fine. Must be the PS3's fault

Originally posted by Shutter Control
...didn't read the last paragraph to leon. Long as eff and I don't have much time left for my break...gotta call sony style and ask some questions.

Yes...component I'm afraid is underrated. It definitely is capable of HD. Hell the 360 one has an "HD" option and it can even do 1080p. Screen looks clear as eff with it so how am I going to notice a significant difference with HDMI? Not possible from the distance I'm watching the TV from, and especially since we're only dealing with 720p here...

Also I don't agree that all HDMI cables are the same. Even with VGA cables I've witnessed HORRIBLE reviews for ones by companies other than M$. The M$ one got beautiful reviews, averaging to 4.8 out of 5...the rest got like a friggin 2 or something.

I don't even want to hear the word "cleaning product" by the way. Screw cleaning. Distilled water and microfiber cloth is all I need to remove dust and dirt. I'm looking for a polisher/something that gives a shiny finish to my electronic devices. I'll do more research...

man, you're picky!

you can find polish solutions, just be sure they are meant to be used on plastic surfaces

you have no reason for getting and HDMI cable, but if you were to consider a bluray player or a PS3 than you'll be better off buying and HDMI cable

All HDMI cables are the same, is a digital signal. It does not degrade over time, or length or whatever. You either get it or you don't: kinda like a CD you copy, as long as you did the burning process the right way, you'll end up with an exact same copy of the original, because it's all digital information.

I don't know about VGA cables, but HDMI is all the same across the board, even if you were to buy M$'s HDMI cable, you can use it with any other device that uses HDMI for output.... you'd just be spending a lot more money than you should

The closest thing I found to cleaning/polishing all electronic devices was iKlear by Apple and it's what I'm most likely going to get...however I was only looking for something to polish but cleaning something is very easy as long as you have at least microfiber and distilled water.

Read about car and plastic polishers. Don't think they're safe on mainly discs because discs have aluminum layers and I don't think that's a type of plastic at any rate...

And I'm almost positive the iKlear really DOES provide a protective barrier, what with all its promising. I'll try 2 fl oz of it since it's the smallest/cheapest I can buy right now, via Amazon of course (Amazon's the shit...) and it even says it does good on disc media...here goes (places order).

..............noooooooooooooooooez 4.99 plus shipping is getting deducted from my bank account! I'm poor!

Why do LCD screens get that black/dark purple spot when you press on them? It's the same on calculators as well.

yes. It is called Liquid Crystal after all, its the same as any other LCDs, such as the one found in a calculator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal_display



It is unwise to "poke" the screen as it can get permanently damaged

Wow I was thinking that it wasn't going to do anything to it, as long as you don't do it too hard. I did that to my first purchase which I returned, although that is not the reason for the return and me pressing on it once or twice (slightly) did nothing.

Well anyway I have now my THIRD Sony 26" LCD Bravia of course the previous two being already returned to Best Buy (and being resold as "new" Damn retail stores suck) and I got the third one from Sony themselves, from "Sony Style". Man was I obsessed with keeping the TV 100% minty fresh and unscratched while taking it out. I put in the greatest care possible when connecting the component cables on the back and screwing in screws, making sure I don't even touch the back of the TV with anything, and touch only the areas that will have to touch the component cables/screws. Lol I failed both tests. At one point the screwdriver (although plastic and not metal, because metal touching it would be worse) touched an area it wasn't supposed to and some of the compononent plugs touched the back maybe 2 or 3 times. Yeah I think I have a disorder but it's wierd, since it was JUST with this TV. With everything else I am fine.

The next day I checked the back of my TV if my almost inevitable screwups really caused anything that can be seen. Lo and behold, I cannot even tell since the TV evidently had markings on the back I KNOW for a fact I didn't do, so why should I care if what I did made a mark anywhere? The TV back surface is 95% perfect and I don't think I'll ever get a perfect product. I noticed the inherent faults after looking at the TV for 20 minutes. Almost every unit is probably re-used material after all by Sony. This is of course not the same as Best Buy reselling anything used as new, as long as they find it "ok".

These aren't markings you will find unless you observe very carefully. In fact most of the so-called "markings" are just inconsitencies with the texture and you can only really see this with a good light and moving your eyes left/right/up/down while looking at certain areas.

do you have like OCD or something?


why are you on your third TV? why did you return the other ones?

Originally posted by S_D_J
do you have like OCD or something?


why are you on your third TV? why did you return the other ones? With the TV, yes, but time will heal that. It healed what I thought it would never a year and a half ago, so it'll cure this too.

I said it. It was because Best Buy doesn't necessarily sell unused stuff. They wil "refurbish" returned products and sell them as new. That is probably why my first TV had a few imperfections on the screen anyway.

Wow total edit. Found the answer I was looking for.

Actually while I'm at it, can I ask...how abnormal is light leakage on LCD's? Is it a very common thing or an outright malfunction?

I notice this to a degree on my new LCD screen when the image is totally black...am I ok, or is this thing supposed to be rare and should require attention and maybe use of the TV's warranty?