Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

so imagine Roma try to use the CN on Abraxas

she locates universe Abraxas is in then aim the CN on that universe & push the button - what happens?


PS. if that fails then she can try aim the CN direcly at Abraxas (if thats possible) then what happens?

Abraxas barely notices.
And again I changed my mind on the Abraxas-Oblivion thing. Abraxas FTW.

well personally...
UN>Abraxas>CN

Originally posted by galactusischere

And again I changed my mind on the Abraxas-Oblivion thing. Abraxas FTW. rofl

Abraxas is overrated. Galactus level being whose highest feats were beating some alternate reality Galactus' off panel and therefore in unknown circumstances.

Hes so highly regarded because he was finally defeated by Reed using the UN to stop him. The application of the UN on Eternity reset Eternity 616 and therefore all actions Abraxas did. Abraxas caused destruction throughout the multiverse therefore having been reset that destruction never happened therefore the multiverse was restored.

Does that mean that the UN reset the multiverse?

Indirectly

Directly

Is the UN a bonafide multiversal power? Not according to the vast majority of Marvel continuity both before and after the incident.

Even the handbooks refer to it as universal and they attribute universal restoration to the UN directly.

People that use handbooks as evidence are lame ducks.
Highly regarded because Roma stated as much that there is only one abraxas in the entire multiverse
and that Roma as the omniversal guardian had nothing on abraxas

And that afterthe un was used all realities were reset and each reality us a timeline/universe and all part of eternity

Originally posted by rotiart
People that use handbooks as evidence are lame ducks.
Highly regarded because Roma stated as much that there is only one abraxas in the entire multiverse
and that Roma as the omniversal guardian had nothing on abraxas

And that afterthe un was used all realities were reset and each reality us a timeline/universe and all part of eternity

People who ignore handbooks when they support what is stated on panel and in the majority of continuity are ineffective debators.

Do not confuse nature with power. Having no counterparts in the universe does not have any direct correlation to someones level of power. Rachel Grey also has no counterparts.

Please do not confuse role with power. Roma is omniversal guardian and yet inherently without access to machinery and devices she is no universal power.

Captain Universe and Quasar are universal protectors, they both would get decimated by Silver Surfer.

Just to summarize, nature does not directly correlate with power.

Role does not equal power level.

Thank you.

Originally posted by rotiart


And that afterthe un was used all realities were reset and each reality us a timeline/universe and all part of eternity

The UN reset Eternity 616. Therefore Abraxas' actions never occurred, therefore everything he did in the multiverse never ocurred. That equates to an indirect reset of the multiverse. That retains the UN's long held status within Marvel continuity as a universal destroyer. This was the case before this incident and after. This point is supported within the handbooks.

The interpretation that the UN directly reset the entire multiverse is in conflict with the majority of continuity and all handbook entries.

That says it all. However people will choose the interpretation that better fits their own ideas on how Marvel continuity should be as opposed to what it most clearly is shown to be. Each to their own

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

The interpretation that the UN directly reset the entire multiverse is in conflict with the majority of continuity How would it be in conflict to it when the user can choose how much they nullify?

The un ended all there was...
In the same comic eternity is referred to as all there is was and will be
he is all realities and timelines


And it says reed ended all there was and the realities realigned. Our 616 wasn't reset... Becuase ther are differences to our timeline after the firing o the un...

And abraxas feared nothing in the combined universes except for the un.
So in all the multiverse the only thing he feared was the un

Originally posted by Mindset
How would it be in conflict to it when the user can choose how much they nullify?

Up to a device inflicted limit of universal scale nullification.

Thats been stated many a time on panel and up until that incident and afterwards as well thats all thats been stated or shown. In support of that the handbooks give the UN the same limit.

That incident in the comic can be interpreted as Abraxas being nullified therefore he and everything he did across the multiverse disappeared as a result. That doesnt make the UN a multiversal power. The restoration of the multiverse happened as a result of its direct application to Abraxas which meant he never caused destruction across the multiverse. This is in line with the limits placed on the UN within continuity and the handbooks have put that interpretation forward as the one to be taken as continuity.

I can understand why people would believe the UN directly went across the multiverse nullifying everything, but since when has it worked like that and with such a range? That is without a doubt contrary to continuity and the handbooks

Except that to interpret that only abraxas was hit is to misread the comic entirely

eternity stated to representative of all time lines and realities
galactus tells reed to end time
reed fires upon all that is
reed tells us all the realities realign after the event

reed did not fire at abraxas
to reed that is to have looked at the picture in those comics without reading the narration and statments...

Or going off handbook fallacies.

Go on. Go reread those four issues and see if it says anything close to reed firing at abraxas.

There's a storm a brewing

Really? It's been raining here for days. It sucks cause I can't go running outside and it's driving me crazy.

And if the storms a brewing I blame Thor

Originally posted by rotiart
well personally...
UN>Abraxas>CN



Originally posted by rotiart


And if the storms a brewing I blame Thor

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1923/s593.jpg

i honestly don't think i've ever seen that comic before?
is it a marvel issue? and if so do you know what issue?
oh dear god i'm curious

UN and CN work very differently. The Cn couldn't possbly duplicate what was needed to take out Abraxas.

Originally posted by rotiart
i honestly don't think i've ever seen that comic before?
is it a marvel issue? and if so do you know what issue?
oh dear god i'm curious

LOL.

That's from Neil Gaiman's superior Sandman from Vertigo, #59. The goat-ish guy is Puck from A Midsummer Night's Dream. The fiendish guy narrating the tale is Loki.

It's really kick ass...i recommend you read it, as you seem to be interested in cosmic/pantheon characters...that's all Sandman is.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Up to a device inflicted limit of universal scale nullification.

Thats been stated many a time on panel and up until that incident and afterwards as well thats all thats been stated or shown. Any scans?

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
LOL.

That's from Neil Gaiman's superior Sandman from Vertigo, #59. The goat-ish guy is Puck from A Midsummer Night's Dream. The fiendish guy narrating the tale is Loki.

It's really kick ass...i recommend you read it, as you seem to be interested in cosmic/pantheon characters...that's all Sandman is. True...I grew up loving mythology before I got into comics

so...if UN is only universal like CN then how come Abraxas wasnt afraid of CN also?

Originally posted by rotiart
Except that to interpret that only abraxas was hit is to misread the comic entirely

eternity stated to representative of all time lines and realities
galactus tells reed to end time
reed fires upon all that is
reed tells us all the realities realign after the event

reed did not fire at abraxas
to reed that is to have looked at the picture in those comics without reading the narration and statments...

Or going off handbook fallacies.

Go on. Go reread those four issues and see if it says anything close to reed firing at abraxas.

Whether the UN was used on Abraxas or Eternity makes no difference to the point. The universe was reset, therefore all that Abraxas did throughout reality was undone. Abraxas and his destruction was stated to mess up the alignment of realities, if his native universe is reset, if his actions are undone, the realities are re-aligned. Simple.

Youre stubbornly insisting that the UN went across the whole multiverse and did this directly which is crazy because

a) Youre refusing to acknowledge the POSSIBILITY that instead the universe was reset therefore all of Abraxas' actions never happened therefore undoing the damage he caused

b) Youre ignoring the scale of power set for the UN within the majority of its showings on panel and the level of power stated in the handbooks which is supportive of these showings.

Your interpretation is contrary to the majority of UN showings and a handbook entry. Id understand referring to the entry as fallacy if it wasn't in support of on panel showings but it is. Accept the fact that the incident is open to interpretation, don't be so arrogant as to believe the way you interpreted it, is the ONLY way. Once you do that and regard what ive said as a possibility, then you can look at the fact that the majority of continuity and the handbook entry matches what i have said and make up your mind. Its all about objectivity.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
People who ignore handbooks when they support what is stated on panel and in the majority of continuity are ineffective debators.

Do not confuse nature with power. Having no counterparts in the universe does not have any direct correlation to someones level of power. Rachel Grey also has no counterparts.

Please do not confuse role with power. Roma is omniversal guardian and yet inherently without access to machinery and devices she is no universal power.

Captain Universe and Quasar are universal protectors, they both would get decimated by Silver Surfer.

Just to summarize, nature does not directly correlate with power.

Role does not equal power level.

Thank you.

Ha, I remember saying something very similar to this back in '07 during one of our exchanges.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whether the UN was used on Abraxas or Eternity makes no difference to the point. The universe was reset, therefore all that Abraxas did throughout reality was undone. Abraxas and his destruction was stated to mess up the alignment of realities, if his native universe is reset, if his actions are undone, the realities are re-aligned. Simple.

Youre stubbornly insisting that the UN went across the whole multiverse and did this directly which is crazy because

a) Youre refusing to acknowledge the POSSIBILITY that instead the universe was reset therefore all of Abraxas' actions never happened therefore undoing the damage he caused

b) Youre ignoring the scale of power set for the UN within the majority of its showings on panel and the level of power stated in the handbooks which is supportive of these showings.

Your interpretation is contrary to the majority of UN showings and a handbook entry. Id understand referring to the entry as fallacy if it wasn't in support of on panel showings but it is. Accept the fact that the incident is open to interpretation, don't be so arrogant as to believe the way you interpreted it, is the ONLY way. Once you do that and regard what ive said as a possibility, then you can look at the fact that the majority of continuity and the handbook entry matches what i have said and make up your mind. Its all about objectivity.

Your entire argument is absurd!.
you said it can be interpreted as the un hitting abraxas
which i called bs on and challeneged you to prove, so you went off on a tangent that i never talked about to act as if it proves something? trying to deflect the argument to an apparent tangent that i never stated is just ignorant.

To quote roma "into each reality eternity made certain there was a galactus to keep abraxas in check. Until this realities galactus died, and the doors to the multiverse became unhinged.

With the un in hand abraxas tells us "There isn't a soul in the combined universes that can stop me".

and if you're gonna go by the handbooks. it says that the un was going to be used by abraxas to destroy all galactus's across the multiverse. yet in the comic book, it shows us that all galactus's were already dead, as the resurrected galactus of 616 is referred to as the "last galactus"

and oddly enough galactus told him that this time can only end one way. time refers to eternity doesn't it.
the entire four issues refer to the fear that abraxas seeks to end eternity... reed tells us in the end that was never abraxas's intention, and thus he must do what abraxas wont...

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whether the UN was used on Abraxas or Eternity makes no difference to the point. The universe was reset, therefore all that Abraxas did throughout reality was undone. Abraxas and his destruction was stated to mess up the alignment of realities, if his native universe is reset, if his actions are undone, the realities are re-aligned. Simple.

Youre stubbornly insisting that the UN went across the whole multiverse and did this directly which is crazy because

a) Youre refusing to acknowledge the POSSIBILITY that instead the universe was reset therefore all of Abraxas' actions never happened therefore undoing the damage he caused

b) Youre ignoring the scale of power set for the UN within the majority of its showings on panel and the level of power stated in the handbooks which is supportive of these showings.

Your interpretation is contrary to the majority of UN showings and a handbook entry. Id understand referring to the entry as fallacy if it wasn't in support of on panel showings but it is. Accept the fact that the incident is open to interpretation, don't be so arrogant as to believe the way you interpreted it, is the ONLY way. Once you do that and regard what ive said as a possibility, then you can look at the fact that the majority of continuity and the handbook entry matches what i have said and make up your mind. Its all about objectivity.
whether it was abraxas or eternity makes all the point thats the entire basis of your argument... god

a. if all of abraxas's actions were undone. how the hell does that explain a pregnant sue. because abraxas had nothing to do with it.
b. the weapon is called by roma as a weapon of unimaginable power... she who uses the celestial nullifier to end universes.. calls the ultimate nullifier unimaginable power... a weapon that they had to hide in 3 pieces across difference universes of the multiverse. and that eternity represents all timelines...

so i'll be arrogant if i please. you are now trying to restate your prior claim so as to not appear incorrect. so.. yah. bs.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm


b) Youre ignoring the scale of power set for the UN within the majority of its showings on panel and the level of power stated in the handbooks which is supportive of these showings.



No, he isn't ignoring anything. He's RIGHT.

"Should Abraxas reach the nullifier before we do, he can obliterate all the combined realities of the multiverse"


-FF Vol. 3 #46. I dont have the scan because i have the actual comic open right in front of me.

and obviously, the UN doesn't scale itself in power to the person who uses it.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
No, he isn't ignoring anything. He's RIGHT.

"Should Abraxas reach the nullifier before we do, he can obliterate all the combined realities of the multiverse"


-FF Vol. 3 #46. I dont have the scan because i have the actual comic open right in front of me.

and obviously, the UN doesn't scale itself in power to the person who uses it.
You're right. I just went back and re-read that issue.
got my scanner to work... here is the Scan: http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8282/fantasticfourv34618.jpg

Edit: I don't have an Image Shack account, I uploaded it as a guest, so IDK for how long the image is going to last.